SPEAKER_06 0:00

Welcome back to the Blur Spectrum Podcast, everyone. Thank you for coming and listening to this individual episode, which is all about black characters who do not get enough shine. Or you may even say black characters who deserve better, or or black characters who you might have liked, but everybody else was like, who the fuck is that? I mean, this this episode is an interesting one because it it it doesn't it doesn't even target, it doesn't target the it doesn't target the main character, it doesn't target the side character to an extent. It covers the character that you may have forgotten their name. We may say some characters that you're like, who? You may say some characters like they was in there, you may say some characters like ah he he lasted longer than that, and we're we're here to inform you that they did not. So we're opening up this discussion with our panelists, which I'm going to introduce right now, starting with myself, Suchy No Shogun, your moderator. Uh, I also have Miss Sayone cosplay.

unknown 0:56

Hello!

SPEAKER_06 0:57

And I have back once again Dr. Lady the Legacy. Bannon. So the three of us today are going to, you know, first off, give our characters that we feel like deserved a little bit more, uh, deserved a little bit more uh notoriety, uh, some some level of remembrance. Uh, and it's not because we specifically like them better than everybody else, it's just that we remembered them and you might not. So let's let's uh uh let's go over some characters. I'm gonna start with mine and make it a little bit easier. Uh so one of the characters I picked was Angela Harris from Boy Meets World. So uh Angela Harris, if any if anybody's ever watched Boy Meets World, Boy Meets World is a uh show that appeared uh under the Disney umbrella, uh, but it appeared on ABC, uh ABC Family, amongst other places. Also at that spin-off or secondary reboot, whatever you want to call it, uh Girl Meets World. Uh, but Angela Harris is the uh only black main cast member of the show. Uh she at one point during the show, Boy Meets World, was the love interest of uh Sean. I don't need to give his last name, but Sean's turno, but Sean. Um and she was there for several seasons. Uh a lot of drama backstage uh amongst the cast and production and stuff like that. Um, she wasn't even, I think they wrote her off the show the episode before the last episode, and she actually was the only member of the main cast that was not in the last episode of the series. Um, now why did I choose her? It wasn't because of that particular fact, but Angela was such a complex individual. She added to every other character's uh uh um personality uh or traits on the show. Uh she of course added to Sean's. She easily added to Tapanga because the entire time Tapanga was the one girl with, you know, uh Sean as a friend and Corey as a friend. You know, Eric was mixed up there as well, but it was just Tapanga, right? And that's the only name you remember. But when they added Angela, she now became that that girlfriend for Tapanga. She became that consistent love interest for Sean. She became kind of a uh uh uh almost like a guru or nomad for Corey at times because Corey was like you know, he always goes to Sean, he always goes to Tapanga. But when he had issues with either one of them, who was he gonna go to other than his brother or his parents and or Mr. Feeney? And it towards the end, right, Mr. Feeney, towards the end, it ended up being um Angela. I mean, even that little that little thing where uh uh uh uh they was in bed together and Corey thought it was weird, and and Topang like walked in and was like, it's fine, it's Angela. Like to have that type of confidence, especially with Angela's side ass, to have that type of confidence to allow your manager to be in bed with the homie, that means that girl was supposed to be on there on the last episode. I'm just saying. And then the fact that when they did the reboot for Girl Meets World, she was only on one episode. How the disrespect? Like, what you what you doing? Like, I get it, Mr. Feeney was there, makes sense. Corey and Topana, they were the parents. Okay, Sean had several episodes, and I'm like, and then Eric came back, you know, in several facets, then Eric's friends came back. I'm like, how you bring back Eric's friends, but you ain't bring back Angela, like more than once. Like, I I didn't even you didn't even have to give them the happily ever after, had to get back together because we get it. He was supposed to adopt, you know, and do all the things, but like, how come Angela couldn't get no shine?

SPEAKER_05 4:48

I don't understand.

SPEAKER_06 4:49

Like, and they made it to me, it made it seem like she had done something unfor unforgivable, and that's why she could not continue in the lineage of the show. Um now, I'm sure somebody may have the facts, so you let me know. You know, you can uh respond on uh uh on on Instagram, send us a message in our mail bag. You tell me maybe I don't know something, but as far as I know, that was extreme disrespect. Uh Lady Legacy, uh sorry, Dr. Legacy Syanae, what do you think about Angela? Um, first off, Syanae Cosplay, because I know Lady Dr. Legacy remembers Angela. But Syanae Cosway, do you remember Angela from Boy Mutual? Did you watch the show?

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Uh I don't know. Um, but um I do it was like within passing, like you know, when Lizzie Maguire is done, you know, and I'm like listen, I I watched Lizzie Maguire for the god-awful but fashionable outfits of that era.

SPEAKER_06 5:50

So I'm like, said that Boy Beats World was a little Caucasian, yet you're going with Lizzie McGuire.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Hey, hey, hey, I I have my problems here and there. But I was there for the fashion with Lizzie Maguire, okay?

SPEAKER_06 6:01

That must have been what dreams were made of.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Um at the time. Uh but Limit World, I mean, Rafael, wasn't she like the the black, the black actress that dated the the white guy that dated Kopenka?

SPEAKER_06 6:15

Or no, she was the black actress that dated the white guy who was best friends with the guy who dated the Pekka.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Yeah, something like that. You see, that's why I didn't watch like that. But you know, does she remember the black actress? I do remember her because I'm like, hey, yes, black girl.

SPEAKER_06 6:28

But I give it to the back. She was and she wasn't even like whitewashed. She she still had she was like black, like a little tinge of golf with uh uh uh a black independent woman syndrome. Like that's what she was.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

I did like Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

No, no, go ahead. Sorry, like she really tried to give like the what is it? The EOSoul type of thing too, especially with her fashion and stuff, especially with her advice. She tried to give a mixture of like an Eric Kabadu mix of uh a little bit of um somebody else who also needs eco-soul, but yeah, she she definitely had like certain gems in there where you wish they expounded on her character. They maybe had uh two or three episodes that was just about her, right? Like when they brought her father in and about that, and how that connected with Sean and her relationship with that, and how they talked about mama and stuff like that, and why she don't want to go no further with Sean and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, this is cute. They're giving her a little backstory, a storyline. But then definitely the shade came in when you didn't put Shroudy on the last episode. She earned it, damn it. I don't know what the hell nobody was trying to let this chick, at least to the last episode, let her say her goodbyes on the last episode. How about that? The script for the the second flag could have been from last. And then they could have done a little cute little goodbye, whatever, whatever. It's not gonna work out. And then for the reboot, honestly, I'm not gonna lie, the reboot wasn't really giving the way I wanted it to give, because I gave it a try. Because I I me personally, I like Bornee's world, it was pretty funny. My favorite was uh Will Fordell, who played uh Eric, hilarious, Nietzsche and Nies, hilarious, gold. But it was only those episodes where you brought back the old cast that I really enjoyed the actual show. With the new cast, it was cute, but like their acting was so like too much of New Disney that it didn't give old Disney the homage it needed, if that makes sense. But but yeah, they only give her that one episode of saying, oh, this would be your new girl. I moved on, whatever, whatever. It was cute to give Angela the what is it, the epilogue that she needed from where she's been all this time, but it didn't give her the shine that everybody else was there for at least two to three episodes in the new season. TBH.

SPEAKER_06 9:10

No, people got Christmases, people got reunions, uh, class reunions, uh, like like conventions, business ideas. Like it was a whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah, and I get it. Like Sean's supposed to come back because you know that's you know, Corey's man's possible paying hundred grand. And then you did it for Mr. Feeney. You can't replace Mr. Feeney because he's Mr. Phoenix. You put back lead 345, all right? And then you did Eric a couple times, and like I get that, but she was a big facet in what made Sean into basically who he is. But you brought him back, but you brought like a little nothing back of her, and it was just like, uh, well, okay.

SPEAKER_06 9:50

But yeah, that's yeah, it seemed like they just wanted to bring her back for closure for Sean so that she could hand him off to Maya's mama, which I don't even remember how bad.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

And then even highlight anything about her and Topanga's relationship as if they weren't really friends. Like you could have been like, hey Fran, where you been at? Nothing.

SPEAKER_06 10:10

They just gave you could have just had Topanga talking to her on the phone every now and then. Period. That'd have been better.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:16

At least they did that in a different world for Denise. But we ain't getting into that.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

But sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 10:24

Uh uh, before I do my second one, I let Sayane go. Do you have a uh character who a black character, sorry, that you feel like uh deserve more shine?

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Um, yes, I actually have two, so you can just do one and then we'll just keep like cycling. Okay, I'll actually change, switch it up and uh talk about Rachel True in the craft who played Rachel. Yeah, for sure. It was great to see a black actress um who was you know in the mystical or witchcraft, something you usually don't ever see us in the media.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Ever, ever, ever.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

She was the token black chick to me in that group, and but they didn't give her much shine at all. They didn't really give her any story of any kind. She was a beautiful black woman with fantastic curls. Um, but that's all it was. She kind of seemed like that token black friend that kind of just was under her friend's shadow, Nancy. But I would have loved to have seen more impact from her. She really didn't have a personality. She was just like, you know, the the pretty, the pretty friend that was with the the bully. But that's it. Like no one ever gets any story from the the sidekicks with the bully. And I think that's what it was for her. And it was a shame because she was so impactful with the black community. We love seeing a black person or black, you know, femme in that type of genre, and that's why she was so iconic, even though she didn't have many lines at all. We really latched onto her because she was just so iconic. Her style, how she was, you know, she didn't seem like someone that she didn't have to straighten her hair to fit like societal standards of beauty, that European beauty. She had her her big beautiful curls out. She mentioned me of Melby from Spice Girls. We love that so we really latched on to her, and even today, look how unproblematic she is. That's why this whole age.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

That's true. That is true.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

She's what, like 60? It looked like she's 25. So um, definitely, definitely think that Rachel True deserved more. We really didn't see her and we really didn't see her in too much, too many films after that. If she did, I didn't know about it. And that also speaks to how Hollywood did her wrong. Like she was impactful for the black community and a lot of people in general. And you would have thought that she would have been casted into a or been, you know, ran down for opportunities. And clearly it wasn't. Um, I don't know if she kind of like, you know, maybe didn't want to go further into um, you know, Hollywood. I'm not quite sure. But when you see an actress that has such an impact for a lot of black people or um people of color, usually they will continue that momentum to really try to get themselves out there. But I don't know, I just feel like Hollywood yet again at that particular time, uh, which is common of the 90s, 80s, and 90s, to not really cast black people um at all after they have one major role. So, but it doesn't change the fact that we don't love her till this day. And the craft came out in the early 90s.

SPEAKER_06 13:58

Early 90s, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Yeah, it's over 20 years. Almost three. Oh my god, almost 30 years.

SPEAKER_06 14:03

Yeah, almost 30 years. It's you you're completely correct. Like she her her style, and and and when I say style, I mean like she she reminded me so much of not necessarily the goth black girl, but like the social outcast black girl. Like the one that comes to school, doesn't give a fuck about what anybody thinks about how she's dressed, is dressed based off of how she felt. She, if she felt like wearing a touch of pink, she's gonna do that. If she wants to wear all black, she's gonna do that. If she wants to wear like piercings or a bunch of earrings or bracelets or fish nets or whatever she wants to wear, she comes to school as she is and she does not give a fuck. And I agree with what you're with your sentiment about her capturing the eyes of so many young black people at the time, because it's like first, she's in this cast of all white people, and she's at least there. Now, she may not have had the most lines, she definitely didn't have as many lines as the next white person or the third white person, but she was there. And I agree, I felt like she was gonna do so much more, but I also felt like they were gonna try and typecast her because even when she did half and half, she was still dressed like the socially awkward black girl, right? So she it didn't even seem like they took her too far out of that character. Like to me, it almost felt like she when she met her her her uh half sister right after or right before the craft, and that's why she was friends with the white girls because she didn't want to mess with her anyway with uh what's it, Didi? And then and then eventually when she became an adult, she met Didi again. Like that it felt like that that was a part of her entire character story, like between the craft and half and half, and because that's how they almost how they drew her. And you're right, she's extremely unproblematic. That's why she's living her best life. But I really did wish that they would have and you might be right, she maybe you know didn't want to do anything else. But I I I was like, I wish I saw her and a lot more things. And I mean, I can check her IMDG. Let me check her quick, maybe I forgot. But continue, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

So um, you know, this is just quickly reading about her. Um, that I think they slightly changed uh her role in the craft to, I mean, it wasn't that impactful because I didn't even remember until you know reading about it about her character dealing with racism at that school because that school was a very affluent Caucasian school, private school. You didn't really, I don't remember seeing any black kids there, to be honest. Not even as extras. So I think that um she was saying that they re-robes uh her character to express her feeling like an outcast, to express her feeling the racism of that school. I did, I but I really love how the character that Rachel True played in The Craft looks exactly how she looks outside of her character. Like her hair did not change. Yeah, and I I her iconic Afro curls is exactly how she kept it that way. And I love that she really embodied her character. Some uh a lot of actors and actresses, especially when they're black, they have to completely change how they look, straighten their hair, cut their hair, look you know, more European, or they have to look something that they usually don't look like when they're offset. And she's like, bitch, y'all go and get what the fuck I give you. Like, this is exactly how I look, how I look in the morning, how I look at night. And she stayed unapologetically black, no matter what. I don't know, and that could be a huge problem, or that is a huge problem in Hollywood if you're not able to change yourself. So she maybe she didn't want to change herself. Every single picture I see of Rachel True looks exactly the same in the most beautiful way. She never changed her hair color, she never changed her style. Matter of fact, her style is iconic, yeah. It's how she looks. When she's trained her hair, I'm like, what the fuck? Why'd you do that? Like that's not that's not what we want. You know, we we we know you that is your when your whole image, when you're being is who you are to us, and I think that's really important. Not saying that someone has to typecast them for themselves and they can't reinvent themselves, but it is very beautiful to see um black people embracing black feature and curly, coily, or kinky hair, and like, hey, that's one of us. We love that, and we don't want that to be changed for the sake of another role if they don't have to. And a lot of people don't. You can see a lot of white people or non-black people keep their same blonde or you know, dark hair and don't change it. Ann Hathaway keeps her same dark hair all the time. Julie Roberts, rabbit, they don't come in changing their whole entire hair, you know. I mean, it that stays the same. So, why does she have to do that? I think that's something that we also don't think about. Like, we have to often change a lot about ourselves physically to get a role. When a lot of other non-black people they don't have to do that, we don't even think that just naturally happens. Maybe they might style a little different, but they don't have to do anything with the hair too much.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Like that's fundamental texture of their hair, they never have to touch, never have to touch.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

And I and I love that. Oh, you're you're absolutely right. They never have to touch that. So I thought it was very interesting in the craft when Rachel True's character, when she was basically cursed, her hair started falling out.

SPEAKER_06 19:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 19:39

She's like, mm-mm.

SPEAKER_06 19:41

She's like, oh turn that mess around real quick.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All the way together. Marsha couldn't Marcia didn't know what to do with it, so she did not.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

So definitely Rachel True for sure.

SPEAKER_06 19:56

Now you're yeah, I again definitely agree. Uh look, I just checked out her IMDB, and like kind of like what I said. They I it feels like not as they chaptercast her, but in most most of the movies she played were like second and third hand movies. So like she's in a lot of stuff. Uh she's been in a lot of stuff over the years, but you know, she's not the main character. Um, and sometimes she's not even the second or third or fourth character, but she's there, and you and because you recognize her, because you she's iconic to you, you'll see her like, oh, there you are, crab, the crabs, half and half. I see you, Mona. Like, that's literally what's in your head, but I I really wish she was in, you know, more things that she was more like she was in uh what finding Mary Jane, but she was only in one episode, and she was only like a character in that particular episode.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

So it's like you'll notice the same thing with Angela for sure. And yes, yeah, because she's on the I don't know if you guys remember, she was in Friday afternoon. She was one of the little hoochie mamas that came and came afterwards. Angela was a hoochie mama.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

Sounds vaguely familiar, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

It's like she came in with Pinky and stuff into the apartment. It was like, oh, this is candy, this is lollipop or whatever the hell are she was lollipop. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that type of joke. She was secondhand, pass to the second hand. You feel me? She can do so much more. Oh my gosh. But she's been like a lot of side characters just like that.

SPEAKER_06 21:32

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Then Law and Order, she did something else. What other movie? She did some movie with Robin Williams, I think was like in the the what was it? Cage bird or something like that. She played an adolescent prostitute that got in bed with the governor or something like that. That ruined his career. And she had three lines. This is pre Angela, too. So

SPEAKER_05 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah. Just having that like that that ceiling. This is all you can play also plays a part.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Yeah, her name was cinnamon.

SPEAKER_06 22:10

Yeah, yeah. Oh wow, I'm so sick that you remember that.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

I'm just looking it up because I say I I know it was like lollipop or cinnamon or tissue roll or something like that. Oh, Angela. Some fruit flavor. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

She didn't even say nothing either. She just walked out in that black bodysuit, like just shimmering away. Shoot it. She didn't.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah, some people don't remember that. I don't think she wants people to remember that.

SPEAKER_06 22:42

I don't want Angela like that. Um uh Dr. Doctor Dr. Legacy, do you have like you give us one character that you feel like needed more shine?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Um, yeah, I had two, but I just remembered one that I would like to talk about. Um Andre from Victorious. Wow. Cause he was basically the heart and soul of that show, in my opinion. Because he he was the the quintessential part of that show. I think so. He brought, you know, Tori to whatever, and then he came to the house. He could actually sing, he could play, Yoko act, he was funny, but they gave him so they didn't give him enough of a storyline to be the character that he should be. Like he was just almost like Tori's flunky little sidekick, and she only talked to him when she needs a song. Oh, don't do that. When you know, when the chips are down, she gonna come to Andre to get her out the jump. Like you would want it to be a little bit more even, sure, sometimes she'll go with Tori and help her out, whatever, but not really. I I don't know. Andre had episodes. We said what? He had episodes. Uh-huh. He did. Okay. Like which one?

SPEAKER_06 24:15

The the the Christmas episode. Oh, that wasn't it just his episode. Okay, the one with his grandmama. The one with his grandmama. That was his episode. One and uh oh, the one the one with his uh uh with the girlfriend, right? Who her father was the producer and she was having the birthday party? Yep. But that got made about Tori and Um uh wait, I got one. That was a Christmas episode. Wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Um as soon as it's about Andre, he and and comes, you know, Tori or whatever, then it becomes about everybody else. But when it's about a Tory episode for jump, okay, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_06 24:58

The one the one the episode where he was trying to impress that producer and then they turned him into the wiggles or the the you know, whatever the the banana pebbles, and and and they changed the song, and then he was known for the wrong thing. Okay, two.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Now what?

SPEAKER_06 25:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

I don't know, because he no, just like how Tori, no shade to Victoria Justice, or whatever. She can sing, but we all know.

SPEAKER_06 25:26

Don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

I said it, I'm gonna say it. Ariada Grande was Ariada Grande even back then. Let's be honest, let's keep it a big. Everybody honest back here? Yep, yeah. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:41

We ain't talking about Jade. We don't talk about Jade.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Jade can blow her out the water too, even though she's a gank. So whatever. Period. Like it was the misplaced cast that I don't know because she came from Zoe 101 or whatever, but yeah. Don't get me wrong, Charlie could sing, but she couldn't blow, like how either Ariana Grande or Elizabeth Giles. Yeah, Elizabeth Giles could blow, to be honest. And if as well as Andre.

SPEAKER_06 26:10

Yeah, Andre could blow. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Get down, both with the keys, the guitar, anything.

SPEAKER_06 26:15

I will say that he did remix Let It Make It Shine quite well. That was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

But everybody's talking about. But okay. Okay, I'll give you that. And even now, like the last time you've seen him in stuff.

SPEAKER_06 26:28

He's a producer and he's making music making money. That's what he's doing. He wasn't a he wasn't a BET TV one, straight to TV one movie. Um that wasn't that that was that happened.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 26:42

Um, but he is a producer in California and he's making money. And he has his own music studio that people the people are recording at. He's making money. Maybe you don't want to add.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

In this show. Maybe he don't want to act. He should have been a lot more shy. Let him shine once in a while. Hell. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

I need to go on to the next person because I can't. Um, alright. Uh, this is gonna be a quick one. So uh my person is uh James Dokes. And uh some of you who are listening might know exactly who that is. I know my panelists probably don't. Um this character, this is the name of his character, of course. Uh, this is from uh Dexter. Excuse me. Um, it is that one black front uh black character that said a surprise, motherfucker. That character. Yes. Exactly. Um, that's who I'm talking about. Yeah, played by Eric King. Um the reason why I chose uh Mr. James Dokes is because on Dexter, if if anybody knows anything about the storyline of Dexter, Dexter is a serial killer, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Okay, so I want yeah, I wanted you to clarify. I was like, Dexter Laboratory?

SPEAKER_06 27:55

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

What? But then I was like, he must be talking about the other joke. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 28:02

Oh my god, no. Dexter, the the TV drama that I think was on Showtime, if I'm not wrong. Um, but no, so Dexter, serial killer, um, in the in the show, you know, he spent his time killing people, murdering people while still carrying on this like regular life on the other side, right? James Does, um, in the storyline, was the first individual to discover what and who Dexter was, and proceed to try and catch him. This man did not last but one and or two episodes. I think it was two. I think it was two. I think um might have been more, but he didn't last many episodes. He discovered it was more than one episode, and more than two episodes, but he discovered what Dexter was, who Dexter was, and they killed that motherfucker. Like, he was the only person who discovered what he was doing. Surprise, motherfucker, figured that shit out, and they killed that motherfucker. Like, like nobody gave him a ring of honor, nobody gave him a badge, he didn't, you know, they could have, they, they could have easily had it where he discovered who he was, even if they had him team up with him, or they had, you know, Dexter, you know, blackmail him or something, I don't know, and and and you know, he comes back later on in the series. But the fact to have that motherfucker killed in a couple of weeks, that was one of the most iconic scenes. Black people have been talking black people have been using that meme for the past decade and don't even know what it's from. Side of Nate Cosplay, do you did you know where that particular meme was from?

SPEAKER_04 29:38

I did. I watched Dexter, I didn't finish it though, but um you the problem with the Pokemon. So I I'm glad that I was able to watch Dexter to actually understand it because I hate being out of the way.

SPEAKER_06 29:52

Yes, there it is, very joke.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

I'm like, oh my god, my people are making a joke. I don't know, I don't know. Um so yeah, because he he always had a scowl on his face, like he was always perpetually mad. Yep, and um his character was a little like flat noted for me because it was just like he was always mad. Like I never saw him really, I never saw the nigga smile. I I not that he has to smile, but I never saw any other dimensions of him. But I'm the catcher's person. I'ma get I'm a catcher, yeah. Like he always like he never was like, he never had any other dimensions to his character. True. So for me, he was annoying.

SPEAKER_06 30:41

He was only in three seasons, and in those seasons, he was only like in one or two episodes each, and then he but they blew him up.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

Yeah, I I I didn't finish Dexter, but I knew that I mean, like, there wasn't any development, there wasn't any character development. Um, and Dexter was here for a while, so to have that one that was supposed to be like Dexter's partner as well. How can you have a partner and not have character development of some sort? So that was kind of weird to me, and I think that's where Dexter was flat when it came to like character development. Um, of course, it was very, you know, it Dexter was the protagonist and he was the main focal point, but it's still interesting to see a dynamic with character development with him that I didn't see, and that just kind of left me wanting. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, I know this Dexter came out, I would say I was in high school, so I would say like 2005, 2006, around that era, I believe. Um, high school. And then, you know, I think it ended my early 20s or so, but I just didn't see much character development for the for the seasons that I did watch, two seasons and no character development. That's a huge pepe for me. And that'll actually make me like stop a show. And that's why I didn't finish it. Um, because it just kind of was like had a um, I forgot that movie where it's like, you know, there's a a killer or a a burglar, and it's like the cops are trying to catch him, they never can catch him. It's like it's like it's always this just cat and mouse type of you know, chase, but there was no resolution. That's maybe I need to finish the show, but that's just how I felt with like the character. Like he knew that Dexter something he never liked Dexter, never liked him from the very beginning. Because he knew what he was doing. He knew, but before he did, he always he's like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 32:36

Like he it was it was negative intuition. He knew something was up, he knew something was a foot.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Yeah, he was like, I don't like I don't like you, I don't know what the fuck it is. I don't know about you. He was right. I didn't kill the folks, but we all know how it goes, like that still was in the era when they would kill the black person off. So I'm like, oh, this is epicable. Like, you know too much, and you black. You're gonna die.

SPEAKER_06 33:04

Well, I mean, at least that was after the era of killing them within the first, you know, 15 frames. At least they waited a little bit of time. But they still painted him in an annoying fashion. The fact that you don't you didn't find him in any way a reason to continue watching the show is is is is is a tribute to the fact that they painted him in a way where he was easily able to be removed.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Oh, yeah, he was extendable.

SPEAKER_06 33:31

Right, precisely. So it's like like you don't miss him that he's gone, but you're like uh he was annoying anyway.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

He was extendable to me, but so was Dexter as well.

SPEAKER_06 33:42

But they kept that motherfucker, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

Yeah, he was he was annoying to me too. I I I don't know. I guess like the the subject of a serial killer having the spotlight is attractive, I guess. Um, I can I guess I can see the aesthetic to a degree, but I didn't like Derek's. Um, I didn't like uh Dexter's character either. I wasn't a fan. So I think and and it's very rare for me to watch the season and then not finish the entire show. Um I was on season two and I was like, it just kind of fell flat for me. It just kept feeling like the same shit. So I just kind of stopped watching it. I mean, I eventually he's gonna get caught. You know, that's just kind of how I saw it. But I mean, I definitely he is immortalized on the internet. You see him in memes, so obviously he left some type of impact, whether it is the black person who turned him into a meme left the impact. Absolutely, and it is great because I didn't know a lot of black people watched Dexter too. So that's cool.

SPEAKER_06 34:45

Um I mean, but I will say I'm sure there's more black people who are just using the meme and not knowing what it's from than there are people who actually watched all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Of course, that's the internet. You mean not knowing the reference, of course. But um, yeah, I do know, I do know him about for sure. Um, but yeah, that was a good thing.

SPEAKER_06 35:05

And Dr. Legacy, did you know who uh Mr. James Dokes was uh previously to them?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Hell no, I don't know what it's when you said the name, I was like, I hope he has an explanation because even I remember seeing the meme, but then I'm like, this is funny, like what you guys described. I was one of those people who were like, this is funny. I don't know where it's from, but this is funny as hell. So I don't I don't plan to look it up either, so I'm like, I'm just gonna accept it. It's fine. Because no, I and I didn't watch Dexter, uh, like that type of horror movie TV show, it's not really my jam usually. Uh I mean I watched it in passing because we had you know somebody in the house that loved that show, but never really interests me. I mean, but even how you're describing him, it was like he should have at least got at least a bit of an arc, just a little bit. But like you said, they made him so unappealing that there was no love lost when he was gone. Well, someone who could figure you out with the amount of time that you were there, you would want them to be like, Whoa, okay, so he had enough stock and intelligence to know what he was getting down about, but we don't like him, so we gotta get rid of him now.

SPEAKER_06 36:26

Killed him and then blamed him for murders that Dexter committed.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Try my wife.

SPEAKER_06 36:33

All right, surprise, motherfucker. Surprise, motherfucker. Thick thighs, motherfucker. Black lives, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

That boy with that vibe will go down in history. In infamy. I don't know who he looks like too. So yeah, that will ooh, yeah. That was that was easy.

SPEAKER_06 36:57

All right, uh, Miss Uh Cosplay, do you have a second uh character that you feel as though didn't get any shot?

SPEAKER_04 37:05

I do. So I'm gonna go to Get Out, and it was Georgina. She was the help, so to speak, with the family, the white family. Um so have you ever seen Get Out before?

SPEAKER_06 37:19

Uh Dr. Legacy has.

SPEAKER_04 37:21

Okay, so have you seen at least the commercials of Get Out?

SPEAKER_06 37:25

Oh, yes, plenty of times.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Okay, the black woman that says, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

Like, right, like that was fucking creepy because and the reason is I've never I haven't really seen that actress outside of Get Out too much. Um, if I have maybe it wasn't um a role that really stuck to me, but her acting in Get Out was terrifying. It was terrifying, terrifying. It was it was it was terrifying.

SPEAKER_06 37:52

Like bad terrifying, or she was playing a terrifying role.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

She was playing a terrifying, terrifying role. Okay. Um, would you ever watch Get Out? Because I don't want to spoil it for you. No, but it's not a scary movie. I didn't say it was.

SPEAKER_06 38:08

It has nothing to do with making a scary movie.

SPEAKER_04 38:09

Okay, gotcha. All right, so I'll just spoil it for you. So Georgina basically gets Dr. Doctor, she gets like possessed, right? By white people. It's like invasion of the body snatchers, basically. That's what all that's what get out is basically about. So they will um abduct uh black people and um that are of fit, uh like fit in mind and body and soul, and then they will hijack their bodies and white people will take over their bodies because they're quote unquote more athletic and youthful. Um so so it's very interesting invasion for the body snatchers. Jordan Peel is sick, and I love him for it. But exactly that particular um that particular scene was um, I think there with the main character who's like dating a white woman, he goes over to meet the family, and the family are at this like plantation style home, and all the help are black people. And um, the one that does that creepy scene, she's her name is Georgina, and she's one of the help. And so the boyfriend was saying, you know, I get I get really nervous around like white people, and what what was terrifying was that she just stared at him, and you could tell she was having an internal battle of thoughts. And she just kind of forces a smile and she just starts chuckling. Ha ha ha, no, no, no, and she's like crying as she's saying, No, no, no, like you don't ever say that. We're treated really well here. I'm like, oh like that was just so fucking creepy, and it was so impactful because that was they were very smart to put her in the trailer. Because that was what drew me, and I was like, I have to figure out what the hell this movie is about because it was very scary. It just brought me back to seeing somebody in slavery or you know, during um working on a plantation where you have people in the field versus people in the house, you know, judged on the the shade of their skin, and I guess she was, you know, quote unquote like a house slave. That's basically how she was, and like you dare not talk about your masters, and that was the scene for me that was gut-wrenching. Um, it was so impactful that it made me want to go see that movie. It's just a shame because you really didn't get too much information about her per se, or what her her history was, not in depth. And I didn't much of that actress afterwards. I feel like she has played other roles, but not enough for me to be like, oh yeah, like I know who that is. Like Lapita. When Lapita, when Lapita played, I always get the the years wrong, 10 years of slave, 13, 15 years, whatever years of slave it is. I I'll never forget. I don't know. I'm sorry, 12. Thank you, 12. That's the number. 12 years of slave. When Lapita played 12 years of slave, everybody knew who she was. And she was a new actress at the time. And it was uh what was amazing was that she broke out of that role, that typecast. Because she's like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be a slave, I don't want to be, you know, the black martyr, you know, and that's the only way I can get like a fucking academy award. And then that's when she started branching out and doing different roles. Um, and I love Lapita for that. For this particular actress who played um in Get Out, Betty Gabriel. Betty Gabriel, okay. I don't remember what else she does. Look, I I haven't seen I'm looking it up.

SPEAKER_06 41:39

She hasn't, I mean, she's done plenty of movies. She was in the purge, she's in clickbait, she was in a quite a few other movies. Um, but you know, going further back, you know, she's playing more secondary, tertiary roles. But in the purge, she was one of the main characters or main black people. I I won't say main characters, because you know how they are.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

Yeah, she has a very iconic face. Um, so it's it's definitely hard to get forget her because she's very beautiful, but I just don't see her. Her acting is so so amazing, she should be in a lot more roles, and I think you know, that's kind of like my point. Like you have so many black actors and actresses who do amazing work and impactful work, and I just feel like they're not given the flowers that they deserve. But her character, but also her character, her character in Get Out was insane. Um and it was just chilling, it was just terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Because you know, Jacob, you already know I don't do scary, whatever, whatever, because it just doesn't appeal to my fancy. Said by somebody else. But I was glad that the humor in Get Out saved it and kind of made it more palatable, so it's not so it won't scare me down to my britches, if you feel me. And when I tell you she looked in your soul and she said, No, don't you know, like it the other jump with the other guy with the you remember the scene with like the little flash jump? Yeah, yeah, like with the camera, that thing took me out of here, child. I was like, Oh, it's real. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, but yeah, that thing with her, that definitely like you need to save somebody, please come get them. But yeah, she was really good, and I definitely think if she gets an opportunity to get like an actual like breakout role type of thing, I think she I don't think they've given her an opportunity to do so, just I mean, I think she's potentially on her way.

SPEAKER_06 43:46

I mean, especially you know, the way Sayone is saying she has a very iconic face, and I'm looking at her now, you're very, you're very much correct. Like her face is very unique, and I think she can easily play a main character, but right now it seems like she's doing a lot. Of you know, realistic horror type of movies between you know clickbait, dark web, the purge, get out.

SPEAKER_04 44:07

Um, so she plays strong supporting actors, yeah, yeah. Um, but she's in a Regina King phase.

SPEAKER_06 44:17

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Yeah, she's in that phase right now.

SPEAKER_05 44:21

Wow, how dare you call Regina King a T.

SPEAKER_04 44:26

Wow. Because we all know what that it's like she's this the side character for strong roles, but she's like the bridesmaid whenever the bride.

SPEAKER_06 44:36

You know what? I am switching to a different person.

SPEAKER_04 44:38

No, but I mean that I mean that in the best way to Regina King. That's why it hurts.

SPEAKER_06 44:43

I I'm not telling you you're wrong, I'm saying that hurts. But Regina King did break out of it though. Potentially, she had to she had to play Huey and Riley at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

Besides, besides, well, I mean, that's another great one. You know, Regina King was definitely on my list. That was finally that last. But besides, besides that, um, you know, Regina King, you know, since we're talking about black actresses, you know, playing supportive roles, she was in Mr. and Mrs. Smith as a supporting actress to Angelina Jolie. If you don't remember that, like she That's Carrie Washington.

SPEAKER_06 45:18

That's Carrie Washington.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

Oh shit. That is Carrie Washington.

SPEAKER_06 45:20

I was about to say, nope, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 45:23

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was Carrie Washington.

SPEAKER_06 45:26

But there is one of my favorites. You can't do that.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Oh, yes, yes, yes. But there was another role that Regina King did play where she was like, I have to find it. I remember I was like, wait, she's I know that it is Regina King, but they didn't really like she didn't have like a role that would stand out. I remember she was doing that and Carrie Washington for years, both of them interchangeably, during around the same time.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

And that's why I got them both.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

So I apologize, but I remember both of them at they both have that era of I call Regina King, Carrie Washington fact, where they played supporting roles. A lot of them, a lot of them, and they didn't have to like you know dumb down their culture. Like, you know, they were black women, but they just weren't, I would say, poignant enough to have that lead role or that supporting actress that had won an award. It was just like, wow, that's a really good actress, but let's focus on the main character. Right. That was that. She was just like that really good like potato salad and like curly pride. What is happening? But you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

I agree, because it definitely Regina King, who do you say, Craig Washington, was it Regina Hall, Henson? Um, yeah, like a good, like a good handful of them just were stuck in this supporting cast, playing the best friend or the girl that lived next door, whatever type school, whatever side character, which were really good, and you will always remember their character, even their name and stuff like that. You remember Yvette and all that stuff, whatever, whatever. But they it took them far too long to get like that main character, main, you know, main chick role when they just had that block, especially in like the early 2000s, early, you know, you know, 90s type of thing to actually get their spot. So yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_06 47:26

All right. Um Dr. Legacy, did you have a second uh black character that you would want to shine?

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Yeah, I'ma say what that's like. Yeah, I'ma say Monique Kim Possible. Some people don't even know who that is, child. Raven Salone, she was in there towards the end is she or whatever, and she got a couple good episodes, and but she was only in there for a hot second to talk to Kim. She had a, you know, that little stint where she was like Ron was jealous of her and Kim's relationship, like, oh, she got a new friend. It was refreshing for her to get another friend in there. Sure, Ron was, you know, the sidekick or whatever. He had his own particular avenue that was good for him, but it was good to get another, you know, feminine perspective in there so she can, you know, be her friend and get her, you know, outside of just fine uh crime fighting and all that stuff and going to, you know, what was taco place, taco nacho, whatever have you.

SPEAKER_06 48:36

Wow. Um nacho.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Way no nacho, by that. And don't forget about Wade Show and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_06 48:41

But don't forget about Wade.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yeah, and Wade too. It was good to have oh my god, Wade. Wade's should have said Wade, Wade too, because those were characters that had enough, you know, stock in them that they could have had more of an arc. They could have had their own storyline, their own background, their own type of thing, even though it was Kim Possible jump, but they could have had their own storyline. Sure, Monique had a stint where she was able to do a little crime fighting, but not for long. And it was like eh, maybe an episode or two when I guess Ron wasn't available. But other than that, it would have been nice to see her in more of a light. And we all know Raven Simone does all these other characters, and she had that stint when she was nasty for a little bit, then she came back to Ravens home. But with that character in particular, I'm glad that they gave her, you know, her, you know, her door knockers, they gave her a little twang and all that stuff to be able to be not a whitewash, you know, girl in a little white high school. She's like, girl, I'm about to go to work. What you about to do? Girl, don't even trip. Like they gave still gave her that little bit of twang, but not whitewashed her so completely, but just enough that it's like, yeah, but you would wish she would have a little more substance with her.

SPEAKER_06 50:02

Like if Yeah, she was she wasn't she wasn't Stacey Dash and Clueless, but she was like she came from Compton, but she knew she was in a white school. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

So even with like oh no, you might talk about Stacy Dash.

SPEAKER_06 50:13

Yeah, chit chit chit chit.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Even with that type of joke.

SPEAKER_06 50:17

I didn't know. No, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

You said what?

SPEAKER_06 50:19

I didn't know why didn't anybody stop me?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

At least with her, you could have you know talked about her parents or something like that, what she wanted, whatever. All you know is she worked at Banana Ram or whatever, Banana Republic, whatever the and she worked with Kim for like a half second, and then that's it. But yeah, I wish she would have got a little more. So yeah. That's when they were like the token black best friend type thing. That was that era. She was one of those characters that they were just in there to get cute little bites, but they didn't really follow it, but then da da da. But it would have been nice for her to get Banana Club spotlight every once in a while. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:01

Or Club Banana, I think is what it was called.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Yeah, it is Club Banana.

SPEAKER_06 51:04

Club Banana, yeah. Sayon A, did you remember Monique?

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Nope.

SPEAKER_06 51:09

I remember Did you watch it possible?

SPEAKER_04 51:13

Yeah, I was like, who I did watch it on and off, but I mean the characters guy. I remember Ruth. Um uh that's it though. That's it. Yeah, I didn't watch Kim Possible that much. The art style was weird, so I wasn't, you know, me and art style.

SPEAKER_05 51:39

I don't like that. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 51:41

So um, it was kind of like art style of like Danny Phantom was odd. That very godparents art is just weird to me. But um I like it, but just the weird the weird angle and then curved, random, straight line and curved. It was iconic first time, of course. Like the who doesn't know the itch to Kim Possible. Like I'm hearing people, you know, at my job still has the beep, beep, beep, beep.

SPEAKER_06 52:09

Like as you're no, uh I oh my god, I I went through like I I'm still going through it, but I went through years of people not knowing the difference between Kim's communicator and the Power Rangers communicator. Oh my god. I'm not, you know, but I'm not gonna get into that right now. That's not what this is about. Um, continue. I'm sorry. I just thank you. Thank see. You a real one. You a real one, and that's what I'm talking about. What? This is this I'm so I didn't even correlate that. I what it's it's like the whole vanilla ice. It's like, why can't you tell the difference? It's different. What's your problem? It's not the same.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

You can't cultured swine. That's a newer generation problem. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 52:51

This was this was back when I was in college. Imagine I had my text tone ringtone was the Power Rangers communicator. Zordon was Colin, and then all of a sudden, bro, why do you have Kim Possible? I'm like, Are you serious right now?

SPEAKER_04 53:04

That's weird. Are you uh that was somebody of our generation?

SPEAKER_06 53:07

Yeah, and I had to argue, I I actually had to argue with them. I really didn't want to, but I wanted them to be, I wanted them to be better. And that's you know what's funny?

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Even when people listen to this now, they're gonna be like, oh, that thing is, they do sound the same. You know what? You're right, they're gonna do that. Oh, because they didn't even think about that until you like some people like they don't, and I bet money, someone's gonna be like, they was communicating for Power Rangers.

SPEAKER_06 53:31

Oh don't do that, stop.

SPEAKER_04 53:34

And then when they hear it, like, oh yeah, but I didn't even like the Power Rangers and I knew of the sound. Like I was not a Power Ranger fan. But like, that was they were iconically two different okay.

SPEAKER_06 53:48

Well, I won't sorry, uh I didn't mean to be any of that. Um anyway, uh, so yes, I will do my third person. Um, and my third person is looking at my list, sorry. Okay, this is an interesting one. Now, I want you to hear my third person, and then I want you to let me explain. Alright, you ready?

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Wait, wait, wait, let me let me mute myself because I might say something.

SPEAKER_06 54:12

No, I uh no no no mute yourself. I want to hear your uh your immediate response.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

I know who it is, because I probably was gonna do it, but I I know but I know I know no way. I know who it is, I do know who it is.

SPEAKER_06 54:25

Okay, then who is it?

SPEAKER_04 54:26

It's gonna be um what's that black chick's name for Clueless?

SPEAKER_06 54:31

Oh, no, it's not her.

SPEAKER_04 54:34

Oh, uh Dion. Because that was gonna be mine, and uh, but I was but I'll I'll let you go.

SPEAKER_06 54:39

Okay, so my character is Susie Carmichael from Rugrats.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

Yeah, why wouldn't that be a problem? That makes sense. That's some problematic.

SPEAKER_06 54:52

You have to look at Dr. Lettuce's face. Um I'm trying to think. Now let me let me explain. I know what you're talking about. Don't don't don't. Oh no, I know you I know you know who I'm talking about. I'm wearing the shirt. I know you. Well, let me let me explain. So, if you remember, the the topic of our of our episode is characters who do not get enough shine or characters who needed a little bit, a little bit more. Susie Carmichael, in my personal opinion, at the beginning of her her entrance into Rugrats, they gave her like three or four episodes where they were, you know, showing her family, talking her family dynamic, they were showing, you know, what she's all about, her relationship with Angelica, and things of the nature. After those three or four episodes, going into the future, or not the future, let's say in the past, going into the later seasons, she slowly just became a recurring pop in to wrangle Angelica back in. One, two, B uh uh uh uh Chucky's long distance love uh uh love interest, or three, uh whenever her parents came over, they wanted to add something black to the show. That's when her parents and her and her and she came in. Because realistically, other than like a big Christmas or Thanksgiving or Kwanzaa episode, you didn't even see the rest of Susie's family. So Susie as a character, although for us, the black people, she's iconic. Realistically, she was barely in the show. I get it, but I and the thing is, I get it. It's Rugrats, it's supposed to be a Tommy, Tommy, Chucky, Phil and Lil, and Susie is what they said, right? But Susie wasn't always in that.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

He's right there, she's right there.

SPEAKER_06 56:31

It's only half her face. Look at that. But it's like with Susie, you could have done like Angelica, Angelica's episodes, and she had a lot of them. Angelica's episodes were all about her understanding, you know, growing up, responsibilities, uh, being too bossy, being not bossy enough, learning more about herself, love, hate, relationships with her family. I'm just talking about Angela, Angelica. Susie's episodes were about dealing with all of her, like she had milestones. She could have been talking about dealing with all of her brothers and sisters, she could have been uh talking about being black in America, but you know, they wasn't ready for that back in the day. Uh, they could have talked about black hair very easily because the they like the easy way they were talking about comb and Cynthia's hair. You saw the fuck Angelica was doing with that, they could have talked about Susie's hair. Like, they did that whole episode where Angelica was acting like she could cook, and then no, Susie was couldn't cook. I remember that one. Ooh, that that made me upset. Susie couldn't cook. They gave her this little easy bake oven, she couldn't cook, and she was trying to give all the kids food, and only Chucky wouldn't tell her the truth, because you know that was a love interest. And then Angelica showed up and know we're like, Well, what is this? Like, what are you, why are you this isn't good? And the babies couldn't tell Susie that she couldn't cook, and they kept trying to eat it, or they would try to give it to Spike. Spike would run away and start vomiting. It just wasn't good. I was like, first off, how dare you bring the only black girl you got into the show and then say she can't cook? How disrespectful. And then two, we never circled back to that. Like, all it was was Angelica was like, I know how to make that stuff, and then they just left it there. I was like, that's it. I have a question.

SPEAKER_04 58:12

Yes, I have a question. I don't know if this is kind of going left, but would it be stereotypical if the only black girl does know how to cook? Like, wouldn't stereotypical because like yes, we we of course we automatically think that all black people can cook, but not all black people can cook.

SPEAKER_06 58:32

I know they can, but I I see what you're getting at.

SPEAKER_03 58:35

The reason I'm saying that I don't know. I'm just curious, I'm just curious. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 58:38

You you bring up a good point. That might have been them. It's a possibility that that could have been them staying steering away from the stereotypical stereotype, which would have been the safer thing to do on a Nickelodeon show.

unknown 58:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

I mean, but also it could be like a knock and down a pick, like you know, not all black people have flavor.

SPEAKER_06 58:57

I'm it and keeping in mind Kree Summers, Kree Summer was the voice. So she could have wow, that was just I just got what you said. But Kree Summer had to agree to still voice the character. So I'm I'm sure she had a say in it, especially at that point. That was when they had already, you know, added the extra hue of color and everything was a little brighter on Rugrat. And the, you know, the opening had the black lines instead of just the purple and blue lines. So it was already after she had some tenure, so she could have easily said, I don't fuck with it, and and with left. So if Kree was fine with it, then you think I'll I'll be fine. I think that's a good point, Sayane. Uh, I think that um that might be a good point. So I would track my initial statement about that. But going back into what I was saying initially, I feel like they could have done a lot more uh with Susie, even as far as giving the Carmichaels their own show. I mean, they tried that on ABC and that didn't even work.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Um like her mama was a doctor and her daddy was cooked, bruh.

SPEAKER_06 59:46

Yep. I mean, it wasn't trying to make them the Huxtables, but I mean Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Like they could have gave him something, at least uh something. Like, uh I get Chucky had his own little junk, whatever, whatever. Chucky had an identity crisis. He sure did. Oh my god, he did.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:03

Like every even, I mean, Phil and Lil didn't even get much. Like, Phil and Lil had episodes, but they didn't have like episodes, episodes. Like, most of the episodes were Angelica, Tommy, and Chucky. Damn. And then all of them at once, going on adventures and stuff. But Phil and Lil, realistically, if you really, really think about it, maybe that I remember, maybe two. Because I I don't even remember going over their house like twice. There was the episode where they didn't want to be brother and sister anymore, and then there was the episode where they lost either Lil or Phil. And then there was like another one. Not many ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

Damn.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:40

Mm-hmm. And again, they're twins. You could have gone plenty of places. Now, granted, I didn't watch all grown-ups. I watched a little bit of it. So maybe they gave him some episodes then. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

They did, they did give him a lot more episodes because they definitely went through like, I want my own identity. Yeah, identity crisis. Like Phil was cool with still being a twin. He was like bamboo. And Lil was like I'm a girl, bruh. Yeah, I want to be my own Joan. I don't want to have all friends.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:10

You know the story.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

But Lil was definitely like, I just want to be my own junk. Like, I want to hang out with my bitches. I want to be, I want to be friends. But yeah, she was still trying not to get stuck within the old childhood ways or whatever. Like, it's not like she even hung out with Susie and stuff like that. She just wanted to be. Susie was in college. But they definitely gave, like, it all grown up, they definitely gave each character still their own thing, but they definitely still highlighted like Angelica and the rest of them.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:41

Yeah, Tommy and Shaki. I mean, yes, Lil got a couple more, a little bit more shine. Um, even in All Grown Up with good points. I didn't watch all of it, but I know from the episodes I saw, Susie had an episode about being a pop star, and then maybe a couple more things happened. But even in the movies, Susie just popped in at the beginning and then at the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

The chicks spoke French, guy. And they went to Paris and they didn't even use her.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:08

Yeah. She was only there in the beginning. I don't even think she went. Did she even go to Paris? She did not go to Paris. Look at that. She spoke French and they didn't take her. Yeah, she was in there for literally within the song. Acting like her mama was a whole doctor. She could have afforded it. The whole family could have gone.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:24

Yeah. But you know, I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Anyway. No, the parents, and you're not. Man, I was like, maybe plastic pants.

unknown 1:02:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

She said that she don't know what the hell are you talking about? But goofy ass.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:41

I was like, I agree. No, Susie Michael Susie Carmichael is a good job. And was she in the first one? She at the beginning and at the end.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:01

When Dill was born, at the beginning and at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:09

Because I I I believe no no no. Wasn't didn't Susie have skates too? And she was showing off her skates to Angelica? She did. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. Sorry. You know, using my nostalgia powers for evil. Anyway, yes, Susie Carmichael. Um, nine of shine. Uh, even in the movies. I think you that's a great point. Even in the movies, they easily could have used her. I get it. Susie Carmichael is not necessarily supposed to get into those types of hijinks like the rest of the babies are. Um, but they could have done anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

Because her mama doesn't.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

She had a black mama. That's why they about to be stealing nobody's cookies. We talk about have this uh have Miss Tickle call my mama, talking about she stole cookies from the jump. No. No, ma'am.

unknown 1:03:52

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

That's the one stereotype I'm glad they kept. You will play with nobody. No, don't play with no black children. Call it mama. Go have her dead ass up in the in the front yard with a stick from the front tree. No, you might get time for that. No.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:08

That's true.

unknown 1:04:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:09

Alright, well, that's mine for Susie Carmichael. Uh, Sionade, did you have any other characters uh that you wanted to voice?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:17

Yes. So my last but not least is Pam from Martin.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:23

You said oh, yes. Pam from Martin.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:26

Pam from Martin. So Pam, uh, this is, I would say I'll speak for 80s and 90s. Um, the shadism in Hollywood was definitely real, uh, especially with black media. Um, they're definitely kind of like the aka's versus probably what the other sorority is.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:49

The deltas?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:51

Do you know that conspiracy well not? Well, I can't I won't say it's a conspiracy. Is it something that people have talked about? How there has been they've been associated with different shades regarding you know who you know in the sorority.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:05

There are there are tropes that that went along with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

There's skins usually go with delta and lighter skins usually go AK. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:13

Also, sizism goes into it as well, studious natures, yeah. All that's it's almost like horoscopes, but continue.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

Entry and privilege, very felt Martin was with Gina uh being aka and Pam being a Delta, um, in a way. But the negative trope of dark-skinned women being angry, belligerent, aggressive, um not soft, not lovable, and then Gina being the soft, the desired, uh, the attractive one. That I I really didn't like. I loved Martin for never said that. I've something that I've noticed because I was always aware of shadism as a young child. Even though I I'm kind of in between, I'm not light, light, and I'm not dark, dark, but I was able to see the disparities on people that were darker and people that were lighter and how it, you know, how it definitely played an effect. Um, because I'm just kind of like just watching. And I I wasn't light enough to deal with, you know, what I see a lot of light people have their privilege of, but I wasn't dark enough to deal with the hate that a lot of darker skinned people were dealing with. So I was able to really see like I'm like, ooh, I see what's going on here. And I didn't like it. And I definitely noticed that in the media, very much so. And I definitely noticed it with how characters were written, even if they didn't do it overtly, but I very much, very much noticed it. The um kind of like in Dream Girls, where you had the Beyonce character who was light skinned, and then you had um Miss F.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:05

A white.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:06

Absolutely, like you saw that that's that's real though. That is real, whether it's in movies, music, any forms of media, that really was what was the pinnacle of success was the shade of your skin and how pretty you were, or how close to the European standards of beauty you were. And in Martin, they always made Pam this negative ass trope that I really didn't like. And Martin would always gang up on her, didn't really gang up on anybody else besides you know Shine, which was Martin, but even still, Shanayne was Martin who was darker skinned and was made a caricature. So that those are things that I l really don't take lightly of. I don't like how they always villainize dark-skinned femmes or dark-skinned people of color or dark-skinned black people in general compared to their lighter-skinned counterparts. You very rarely see a lighter-skinned villain.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:06

Wait, I'm trying to remember her name. Uh, what was the one that was always the evil mama?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:11

I don't even remember who that is.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:13

Okay, go ahead. I'll find it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

Um, the girl that was in uh Sin Live Between Love and Hate?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Oh, uh uh Kim Whitley, not Kim Whitley.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:21

Um not Kim Whitley, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:23

I know who's I know who you're talking about. No, Lynn, Lynn. Lynn Whitfield.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:29

But she was the only one you're right.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:32

And and she carried the mantle everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:34

That's what I'm saying. Though just one carries the mantle. And she's proud of it though. She's proud of it. I mean, what? Okay, so that's the one light-skinned villain that carries the way. She does it well.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:45

I'm just I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

I can't think of can't think of much, can you?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:50

I don't deny what you're saying. Like, even when you were talking about the more aggressive writing style or the aggressive personalities, like instantly, because normally whenever I think of Martin, moments later I have to think of Living Single, because you know that's my favorite show. Um, and I thought of how they wrote Max compared to the other three women Khadija, Regine, and Sinclair. She's the more aggressive, you know, especially with Kyle or anybody else, she was the more aggressive character where she would, you know, crack jokes and she would, she's a strong lawyer. And she would she would be. I mean, to talk about being a womanizer, she's I mean, I can't call her a man inizer, but like if you were to give a womanizer, if you would give the power of a womanizer to a woman, that would be Max or Maxine.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:34

Yes, absolutely. Maxine was definitely going to be on that list with Pam because that is that similar, that similar group. As well as the girl from Boy Meets World. She wasn't light skin either.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:47

Oh, Angela? Yeah, no, no, and Angela, yeah. Angela had like, like when Grace said Erica Badu, I was thinking about like that Erica Badu level, not aggression, but that level of strength that Erica Badu has, where you know, people always say she changed all the guys that ever dated her.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

Yeah, and then certainly she didn't get on the thingy of I'm glad it didn't give Angela the trope of the angry black woman. Right. She gave a little bit of attitude and stuff like that, but she never had to do the thing. And I hope it was to the to the point where the actress that did play Angela didn't want to be considered, but to definitely to say anything's point, like, because I remember you got, I don't know if you guys remember the whole thing of like the Tyler Perry trope, like every light-skinned junk was like the main character guy that was always, you know, the Shamar Moore of them all, and then that's like the Blair underwoods were always the villains. Like he's the guy that beat their wives or had to be the womanizer and all the other stuff, or gave the girl SCDs, stuff like that, whatever, whatever. But yeah, to that, to that point, definitely, even when you know, I don't know if you saw um Jake's face when he when you said something about Pam, like that revelation of, yeah, that's the that's a stigma that most dark-skinned women, especially in Hollywood, especially back then, always had to carry around with them. That they were always, even though the light-skinned woman was considered a black woman, when you're darker skinned, you always have that angry black woman, you know, weight on your shoulders that you're always stigmatized. Like, oh, you don't have to be angry.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:31

Like, no, I'm just talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

Like, I'm I'm literally just talking to you. There's nothing about it. Like, I'm passionate with what I'm saying. Like, oh, but you seem a little angry. I'm not angry. Right, calm it down. I'm just I'm just a little passionate when I'm she does it, and then even to that point, like with Gina, she's old, she's had like crying episodes about like her emotions and stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:53

And then she has to get Pam to rile her up to get aggressive, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:57

So she has that hype man in Pam to be like, Pam, bump him, you don't even knew you do this, but always talking down on you know, I don't need this man to do this, I just want a man to do this, Denzel, Denzel, this, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:11

Couldn't keep a move. It was never and all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

Yeah, never her having like soft moments to be like, oh, I just want to be loved, I just want to do this and that third, but always just that enforcer, aggressor type of thing, always having to put this hard exterior up, make sure she doesn't show emotion to make sure she's not the soft one that you can take advantage of, but still doesn't show that vulnerability that you know women have.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:39

Have, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:40

Absolutely. And um to Sina Arnold played one of the singers in Little Shop of Horrors and sang the same actress as Gina. And Gina, I I don't remember her name, her actual name. I just call her Gina. Um I don't know, I don't remember, but I'll just call her Gina. So Gina in the Little Shop of Horrors. You could you could you could correct me anytime I can't remember?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Wait, is that the one where it's like good hair and bad hair or something like that?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:08

Uh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

No, that's that's the that's wrong.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:11

Sorry, that's a cambell, ma'am.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:13

Oh, thank you, thank you. Tisha Campbell. Okay, Tisha. So Tisha was in Little Shop of this. I'm just like, oh my god. I'm like, look, please correct me. I don't remember. I was about to call her Gina the entire time. So Tisha Campbell was the singer. Um, it was like a trio in Little Shop of Horrors and Tashina Arnold was the black side character. And it just, I just I just notice things, and it's not a conspiracy, it's just things that I've noticed. And it just kind of you know followed into Martin as well, because exactly what it was. Little shop of horrors, Gina, sorry, Tisha Campbell was the main singer, she was the spotlight. It gave dream girls, yeah. It definitely gave dream girls, but again, that was what was important. It was important to have that pretty, privileged, light skin lead, and then the black, the darker skin fems could be the backup. They're good enough for the backup, they weren't good enough for the lead, and that deaf, it's the same character that kind of you know, uh, I would say presented itself in Martin to me. Uh, Tisha was not good enough to be. Why wasn't she good enough to be the lead? Like, why did she have to be the side character? Why did she have to be the one that was always arguing with Martin? And also that played on how the people, the watchers, like how people how we viewed her when it came to attractiveness. A lot of people didn't find her attractive because she played that trope of the angry black dark-skinned woman, which played into the um that ideology that a lot of men didn't like dark-skinned women. And these are these are conversations that I've heard with a lot of people in her community. I don't like dark skin because they're aggressive.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:01

Because they had attitude and all that other stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:04

It's and it's it's it's I think it's interesting. And I know that's not what this topic is about, and we can go on that in another episode, but um, I I do agree that you know, I've had, of course, obviously I've had, you know, barbershop talk and conversations uh similar to that. But for me, I grew up in a house of darker skinned women who are strong, independent, and able to take care of themselves. You know, my aunts, sisters, mother, everyone. So for me, there there is no skin tone that is attractive or inattractive. And, you know, I grew up, you know, having an attraction towards Maxine because of that aggression, because of that, not even aggression, that's the wrong word, because of that independence, because of that passion, because of that ability to say that she what she wants, how she wants it, and be able to, and and and I guess for me, I I I I also I don't use the word idolized, but I also embodied uh T C Carson's uh character, Kyle Barker, because my mindset was I like a strong woman, but we're not going into this where you're thinking you're going to domineer the relationship. I'm not trying to dominate you either, but we're two strong personalities. We can coexist, we can be in this relationship together. But and but you know, the entire time Maxine's like, if you just give me the give me the power, give me the reins, and he's just like, the fact that you still want that, that's not what you're gonna get. And then it's it's having that understanding that look, we can literally control this beast that is our relationship together. And that's what I liked about the continuation of their relationship, the continuation of their storyline, Maxine and Kyle in Living Single, is they showed what uh uh Dr. Legacy was talking about, how that uh the quote unquote dark-skinned female character who normally has that that anger, that aggression, that you know, not light-skinned personality, is able to show a softer side, is able to show the the ability to be in a relationship. Granted, most of the time they said the relationship was toxic. Well, not toxic, they said it was rocky.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:13

Toxic.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:14

Okay, fine. Uh, but eventually they realized why it was toxic, and it was because they weren't viewing the relationship as a relationship. Well, one of them was reviewing it as a competition because that's all she's been doing. She's a lawyer, like she's you know, in sports and all the stuff that she did her entire life, she was always in competition with not only women, but also with men. So that was what she was viewing every other aspect of her life. So eventually, when she came to the conclusion that that's not what it's about, and she realized this is who I'm gonna be with. Granted, there was still a little competition in there, but that's because that was part of the things that he loved about her. But going back to Pam, Pam didn't have that opposition. Pam eventually, at one point in the in the in the series, was getting into a relationship with Tommy. And Tommy, I'm gonna say similar to Kyle, but Tommy is the kind of lover. I'm not gonna call him a womanizer, but he showed womanizing type of traits. I'm getting there. He showed womanizer type of character traits earlier on in the series, but eventually, you know, you would see like the softer, you know, kind of Barry White side to Tom. Uh, what was his last name? I can forget.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

Thomas Tommy Strong?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:26

Strong. I knew it was S. Thomas Strong. And, you know, once Pam saw that side to him, and even when they got to the wedding, and you know, uh, you know, uh Martin found out that they were back together, about to get back together, he was like, you know, I'll give you my support. You know, that woman is for you. And they eventually kind of found this union that made sense, where she knew she didn't have to be strong all the time. But for me, I felt like kind of to what Sion A is saying, it took so long. And for people who didn't make it, maybe make it to the end of Martin, you never saw that softer side. And it didn't even last that long because it was the end of the series by the time that happened. So you never really saw and ingested the softer side of the dark-skinned character. And then the next time, if you're paying attention, then or if you're not paying attention, the next time you see Tashina Arnold is in Everybody Hates Chris. And now she's again a strong mother, black, darker skinned, womanly character. And she's domineering, she's the matriarch, she's controlling of the situation outside of the money. She well, and even then, she's handling everything inside the household. Um, uh uh uh uh opposing um uh um Terry Cruz's character. What was it? Julius Julius Julius, and it it it's almost like it doesn't give you a break, kind of going back to what you're saying. So, in in terms of the shine, not necessarily that she didn't get any screen time because she was on almost every episode, it's the fact that the light that they bathed her in, which gave a poor light to the the the women in real life who that character was embodying. Um and I ah man, I you know, and and the Dr. Legacy was right, you know, when you said that, I literally was like drawing a point and a map to every other, you know, uh uh darker skinned or ebony-skinned character from TV uh back in the 90s. I'm just like, wow, that is literally if if it's not the entire concept of their of their character, it was definitely a poignant point. Uh it was it was definitely a point in their personality. Um, and that's crazy to really think about that. Because again, for me, that didn't bother me because I knew what my attraction was towards. But then when I think about the conversations that I've had with, you know, um men, males, whatever, um, that that is that that is what some of them are saying. That I I don't go after darker skinned women because they're aggressive, they're loud, they're angry, they're whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:03

They don't feel emotion, yeah, they're not soft, they're not supportive, and it's interesting. And um, you know, it this does, you know, still plays into this conversation because it is about media and how media is portraying. But this is how pe how powerful media is and how cerebral it is. And a lot of people don't even know how it really is insidious, we don't even think about it, we don't even have a truth. It just it's fed to us, it's taught to us, it's taught to our families for generations. What is good, what is bad, what is attractive, what we need to be attractive to, and that's really taught to a lot of us. It's only if we're able to like be like, uh, this doesn't make sense. If we're able to see it as like an unbiased, like, wait, what why does this why does this matter of their skin tone? Scientifically, how does their skin tone make you more aggressive? That is you have to really step aside and be like, this is bullshit. Does it make sense?

SPEAKER_06 1:22:08

Yeah, it's it's complete and utter bullshit. And I I don't want to say this, but it's what's in my mind, so I'm just gonna go and put it out there. Kind of what you're saying about what has been taught, what has been ingrained, what's been put in front of us for years and years, decades and decades, that especially on the screen, don't date darker. And then I took it a step further because if you date darker, you marry darker, you have kids, and your kids are gonna be darker. But if you date lighter and you have kids, lighter and brighter is better. It's easier for them. They want them to date lighter because they want them to be closer to lighter.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:46

Interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:47

Ah, and if that's the image that they're putting on television, the lighter they are, the more passing they are, and the more pure they are.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:54

You know, and then they pass that what is it, the paper bag type.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:57

The paper bag type. Yeah, that's so we still know you're black, but you're lighter, so you can be inside the house. You can help MASA.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:07

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, oh goodness.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:11

I didn't mean to take it, baby. That's what my mind was.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:13

No, that that is why I I do love, and again, this is why media is so important because now you have the huge movement of black is beautiful, you know. The the dark, darker tones are beautiful. It's I love it, and then it's like I hope it's not a kink as well. Oh, it's it's a kink for people. It is a kink for people. It it's gonna things are gonna be a kink for people either way. I just hope it's not a fleeting movement, you know. I hope it's not a fleeting movement like body potentially. I hope it's not a fleeting movement, but I do this is something that is revolutionary in general. This is actually something that no other generation um of the 20th century has really gone through in I would say mass media that black is beautiful and darker tones are beautiful. Like I love like I love that. I I I thought it wasn't gonna happen because I'm hearing, you know, you hear generations of people who who themselves are darker toned saying that my my skin is not beautiful and my children cannot have darker skin because I don't want them to go through what I went through. They must be with someone lighter to dilute the melanin.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:28

There it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:30

Um even if they do, it's just like you could think you're oh I'm pretty okay, but you will always have that, because I know I've I went through it. I've always had that. Whoever's lighter than me, I know people are gonna talk to you more. I know people are gonna be more open to hearing what you have to say and have me last. I know more guys are gonna be paying attention to you more because you're lighter skinned than that's really like that's the pretty girl in school and all the other stuff. But light skin jump, they always know about the red bone. But I'm usually last in the picking, like, uh, I guess I'll support for you. That's the always the stigma that I've always had in my mind, especially when I was younger. Because that was it was just always a thing. And I never, you know, had an issue with you know being called beautiful in my own hospital, which thank God I didn't have it, but definitely in my surroundings, especially in school, I always took in myself that guys are never gonna talk to me. It was gonna be like so. I'm just gonna sit over here and mind my business, and and that definitely will play on your psyche for like a long time.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:38

Absolutely. And it doesn't have to be anything that was said to you directly. Uh, there's there's power in a lot of indirection. You know, you noticed. You know, like how we were talking about these shows and how we're noticing who the lead roles were going to. They didn't have to say, hey, this is going to light skin over here. You know, didn't have to say, it didn't have to be shocker.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:01

Okay, that's cute. All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:04

Yeah, but these are things that we have noticed. Um, and even if maybe it was so common of us that we probably didn't even have to sit down and think about it. So now we're having this conversation like, oh my gosh, that's so true. Like, I'm going down the list, and I it's yeah, two plus two really doesn't equal four in the, you know, when it comes to um shadism in the media, and and what while also putting in, you know, the roles that these characters are playing and the disservice that they are giving these characters that are playing the roles.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:38

Because definitely within like the last, what is it, I wanna say five, ten years, you've definitely seen like a lot more of the darker tone spectrum getting the shine that they deserve. Like they're more of the rules, more of the whatever. But I also don't want it to be a thing where I don't want you to because she's a darker tone, just you can fit into the quota and make it affirmative action type thing. I want you to pick her because she's also talented and she also deserves it. And then now you're noticing that this darker skin woman that has been back there behind the little the beam in the back and stuff like that, and she's like, Hey, I'm here. What's up? I've been I've never and it was like, Where have you been all this time? Child, I've been standing right there.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:31

Really rough, been there.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:33

What's up? Like, I just needed a time to let my moment shine, and then I'm glad that people are getting that because I don't know. Oh, I need to send you. I don't know if you've been seeing lately, especially with this little mermaid thing happening. Oh gosh, the representation that people need, uh, especially little girls. I ooh, girl, I gotta send you this video.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:54

Okay, I'll write back on.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:55

Yeah, but we'll get to that later. It's the representation that. Also matters as well, especially going further within the future of media and movies and TV to get rid of that trope that darker skin can play off spectrums, whether it be villain or the main character that's a little softer or whatever, like they have the range to do anything. And be given the opportunity, especially as of late, good to see. And hopefully it won't revert back to past ways. Sure is gonna be certain directors or whatever that still wants to stay in that trope, but hopefully we can, you know, get our own little thing in there.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:37

So and then um Dr. Legacy, did you have a final character?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:46

Yeah, oh yeah. Um I said Kree from Kids Next Door. And for those who don't know who that is, child, she is saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:02

No, I was like, yes, yes, now I remember her. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:06

Yeah, Kree from Kids Next Door. If you don't know her, child, she is the sister of number five.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:13

Kree played by Cree, I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

Kree Summer, amen. Lord be the God. But she definitely got the hard exterior tough black woman trope in her character. For sure. And then I don't think she got enough shine. Like, she definitely could have played either Spectrum of the Villain or the good guy, because she started off a kid next door, then she went into a little teenager type of thing, and then she turned evil, whatever, blah blah blah blah. But she definitely could have had more of the arc in her own right, especially with number five, because both of these characters were so dope in their own fruition that you wished that they could talk about them more. Sure, every like most characters had their own little, you know, adventure for the day or whatever, but more some more than others. I feel like the relationship with both Kree and number five could have been highlighted more. Especially like with the parents and stuff like that, even though they tried to play.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:25

They did try to play the Huxtables. They really didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:28

Oh my god, that's trying to keep Philosophy as a damn father. I'm just like, oh my god, that did not age well. It didn't.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:35

It didn't. It did not.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:37

Did not age well.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:38

It did not. Sorry, Philemon.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:40

Oh Lord, but it would have been nice to see them have more of her character art, whether it be separately or together, but Kree definitely had that type of potential to be more, for sure, in my opinion. Not just a villain. Should have could have given more of her origin story of why she turned this way and stuff like that. Because sure they have the thing where after you leave the kids next door, you become a teenager and now you're evil.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:11

Yeah, you get decommissioned.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:12

Stuff like that, and adults, whatever, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:15

But I feel like she could have been so much more to have to that point for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:21

Yeah, um cracking cool. Just putting my two cents on that one, I completely agree. Uh, Kree, when they introduced Kree, it was such a reveal because you know, she was first wearing that little, you know, little ninja samurai outfit, the teenager samurai outfit or or uh gear.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:37

Oh, and to keep the texture of her hair.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:41

Sorry. Yes, God. It was oh to give her a side part afro child. Oh, for one thing. What I was hoping is because she could see the future. That's right. That's what the future was holding.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:54

That what I thought she had locks. I didn't know it was an afro.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:59

It was an afro, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:00

It was funny. She had locks at one point, but she also had an afro.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:03

She definitely had locks over those. Then they started as the little frow y type of thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:06

Yeah, when she came out of the ninja suit, it just puffed.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:10

I think it expanded because she got the the valve. So all right.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:15

So when she first appeared, they made it a they made it a point to talk about the fact that because she was kicking their butts. She was kicking, you know, uh uh uh treehouse one or you know the K And D one through five. She's kicking their butts because she and she made sure, or the character made sure to say, I know all of your tricks. I like and she taught number five. She so it's like, I know what you're gonna do because I used to be a one of you. And when she finally revealed herself, and number five goes, Kree, and like it was just a shot or betrayal almost. But then you remember, like, they're they're still they're kids, they're teenagers, so they still have to live in the same house, so they still have to interact. And there were a few episodes where they showed the insides of you know their household, they showed how they interact. Of course, they showed well, they didn't they never showed the adults' faces, well, not all the adults' faces, um, but they showed, you know, the father and the mother and the other siblings and you know everything that's going on inside the house at times when they have to interact. Um and but I I I do I do agree that later in the series or the show, it seemed like they were now playing this whole, you know, Kree's love, weird interest with number two, too. Yes, number two, because you know, he turned himself into uh an adult teenager, and then he was attractive to her, and then now there's this weird like energy. Um, and then it was kind of like because she had failed that first mission, they kind of just pushed her to the side and she wasn't important or as important. Um, and it just it seemed like they could have done, as as uh Dr. Legacy said, they could have done so much more with her as it pertains to growing who the character is. Because like even number, and again, she's not one of the main five, she's a teenager, so we get it. There's only so much you can do when not supposedly talking about the teenagers because they're not supposed to be important. Um, but because of how intro integral she was in terms of one of the main characters, two of the main characters, um, the storyline, like anytime they wanted something done, they actually called Kree. Uh other than Kree, I forget what he what number he was. It was like 276 or 265, that other guy who eventually became a teenager. But they always called Kree because Kree gets it done. Like, even when one through five interfered, Kree at the end of the day still got the job done and was just like looking like, oh, that's nice that you showed up. Thanks. But I got what I needed and I'm going. So, you know, it was just they could have done more of that in other episodes, but eventually, I think after like the first, second or first or second season, they kind of you know faded off of using utilizing her more, and they could have grown a little bit more depth to the character in and of itself. Um, because yeah, they talked about why they decommissioned, you know, children when they became uh teenagers, but they never talked about other than the fact that obviously you're getting older, they never dive into why they decided to obey the adults. Um, because it's not like they was getting paid job. Um, so yeah, I agree, definitely. So we've gone through quite a few characters. Uh, did anybody have any other characters that they just want to throw out without explaining?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:33

That I can think of on the top of my maligame.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:38

Um I mean if you don't, it's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:42

LaFonda from uh Napoleon Dynamo.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:50

Hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:52

Oh, Gerald from Don't you say hey Arnold? Yep. What did Gerald had episodes? No, I agree. He was very forgettable for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:01

Oh yeah, he was. I'm surprised.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:05

Or the little shoddy that was like Gerald from recess.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:09

What what are you doing? You just you're just picking black characters now. They didn't get the shot to deserve. I'd say him over Gerald because I can't even remember his name.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:20

Oh, here we are.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:29

Vince! Yep. Wait, he was played by a black eye and an agent? And then they made him lighter in a later season season.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:52

Okay, I'll say Vince over uh over Gerald. Because Gerald had Gerald was the main character, and he had a bunch of episodes. Vince, on the other hand, yeah, I'll give it to Vince. Vince only had the the the I want to be this type of character, and his dad said, No, you're gonna play sports. And you know, that's you know, everything here. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:10

I have one. I have one. I have a mic drop one for y'all.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:15

Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:16

Cosca from Berserk deserves so much better.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:19

Oh god, that's you know this is drill. You know, I'm gonna go ahead and wrap up the episode. Because I ain't doing that.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:30

You said all characters, I said drop it and walk away.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:33

So we're walking away. Um I'm not nope, not touching it. That's all you. All right, so thank you all for being a part of this episode. Um, we actually want to continue this conversation on Facebook and Instagram. If you have a character that you feel, a black character that you feel deserve more shine, and this is from anime, cartoons, video games, television, drama, movies, anything. Share it with us. Uh, either send them to our mailbag or DM us, or you know, we'll be dropping several posts about this during the course of the week that this episode comes out. So feel free to head to our social media and uh uh share and talk to us about it. Uh, but of course, wrapping up, uh, go ahead and tell you how all of us can be reached. The Blurred Spectrum Podcast can be found on Instagram or Facebook uh or Twitter, uh, the Blurred Spectrum Podcast, sorry. Um, or you can hit up our mailbag, the blurred spectrum podcast at umbrellsty k dot com. Uh or no, no, yeah, that's it. Or you could uh find me, Suchi No Shogun, on I uh Instagram, sorry, I'm gonna say I G, which is also Instagram, uh Suchi underscore no underscore shoguns, and that's T-S-U-C-H-I. Um, or I can be found on Blurred Creations, uh, and that's blurred creations on Instagram and Twitter, blurred creations shop on Facebook. Um uh also you can check out uh our current line of Zodiac Girls apparel. We are currently in what season are we in? Virgo? Virgo, we're in Virgo season, Libra season's coming up, y'all. Uh like I said last week, Libra looking dope. Go ahead, check you out some Libra. Um, we also have a new line of apparel coming out uh in the latter part of October, so get ready for that. I ain't gonna fall, nothing, but our fall line is coming out. Um, we also are gonna do a couple more collaborations before the year is out with a couple more cosplayers and a couple that you remember that we've done before. Um, yeah, so that's blurry creations. Uh, Lady Doctor, Lady Legacys, how can you be found?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:41

Uh Amazon Graceland underscore at uh Instagram. That's it.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:49

At Sione Cosplay, how can you be found?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:52

Side cosplay on Facebook, cyone underscore cosplay on IG, and cione period cosplays at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:02

Subarashi. So uh before I close out, if you have any places that you want to see or listen to, well, actually we're on most podcast platforms, uh Amazon. We're actually on Amazon, Spotify, Apple, Google, check us out, listen to us. Um, but if you want to see us live at any con or any event, go ahead and give us a shout. Let us know where you want us to see us, and we can definitely make an appearance or our panel because we love coming to talk to you. So like, subscribe, follow, check us out, and as I always say at the end of the episode, Sayonada.