SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast, everyone. I hope you are ready for this topic because a lot of our panelists have been talking about this for quite some time. And I mean predating the podcast. It's uh uh it's been a thing that's ground their gears, a thing that's uh pounded their pavement. Wait, that sounds inappropriate. Um it's it's similar to a uh thin line between love and hate, but they love to hate the fact that y'all don't know the difference between appreciation and appropriation. Uh, because you know, it's okay to love your cosplayers. It's okay to love your characters. It's not okay to blackface, blackface. I guess that's a that's a that's that that's that's not on the thin line. That's actually pretty far past the thin line. Okay, so let's just say it's it's giving homage without taking advantage of to gain monetary gain. I don't know. Everybody has a different definition. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna ask our panelists. But before we do that, I have to introduce them. Starting with myself, of course, your moderator, Suchi No Shogun. We also have Miss Hione cosplay. Hello, we have me Skittles. Oh, not not the not the low bass dad. What happened there? And then, of course, we have rejoining the podcast after some time. Uh uh, it it didn't take a lot to get her back on, but she she she definitely has wanted to be here, Miss Lady Giovanni.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Good afternoon, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Ooh, that sounding sexy and sassy. No, you didn't. Sounded like Lady Red.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

So we brought these uh wonderful women. Wow, I just noticed it's all women about me. Huh? Wow. Anyway, we just brought these wonderful women here to uh discuss this very important topic. Each and one, each and every one of them have uh social media presence. So, of course, they've seen different varieties of both appreciation and appropriation for a variety of different things, you know, characters, TV shows, nostalgia, cosplayers, celebrities, etc. I mean, I believe two out of three of the ladies on here uh have an issue with uh appropriation by celebrity. I believe one out of three of the ladies on here have an issue with appropriation by way of uh spiritual deity, although the other ones care. One specifically has encountered some very heinous individuals. I believe all three of the ladies on here have had issues of appropriation as it pertains to black women. So we're going to um, we're we're we're definitely gonna get some uh some feedback from all of us. I'm gonna I'm gonna say stuff too. Hopefully, I think. I don't want to be overpowered. Because you know women are powerful. Uh black women are powerful. Anyway, uh, so yes, we're gonna we're gonna give them the opportunity to give their definitions, their descriptions, their explanations on what each of these words mean. So we'll start, of course, with Miss Sionic cosplay. Uh, could you give us your definition of what you feel like in as it pertains to this topic? What is appreciation?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Appreciation is referencing culture while also being respectful. Utilizing elements of a certain culture and wanting to show your appreciation by also researching, number one, because you want to research what you can and can't do. There are certain deities that are actually specified you cannot, I guess, embody in a way because that is disrespectful. I do know that a lot of Hindu gods you have to stay away from, but we have seen Shiva, Shiva being cosplayed as uh a deity that is cool. Um, I know there are um celebrities like you know, I'll say Heidi Klum had um cosplay as Shiva, and people are like, oh my god, it's so crazy, that's so great, but like as a as a religion, they don't people they don't just cosplay Shiva, they actually do it as ceremonial. So you have to be very careful instead of like, oh wow, you know, I'm I just want to cut or Kali, excuse me, Kali. Kali, the goddess, goddess of destruction, I believe, in reverse. Um, so that is the uh Hindu gods and goddesses, I definitely stay away from because that is being practiced currently.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Um, so you can show appreciation with uh with culture, but also researching to see what you should stay away from because that is that it's not it's not something you just wear and take off. That is people's religion, that is a belief system. Um, and you know, it's not something that you just do for fun. Um, but there is definitely uh a thin line for that. Sometimes you might not have a religion or culture that says it in in, you know, I would say blatantly, do not do this.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

And so I think that is where it can get a little, it's very much of a gray area, whereas you shall not do this versus no one told me to, so I can just kind of, you know, this is my uh my culture, my background, and I want to embody my own version of what I believe this god or goddess or spirit or orisha might look like.

SPEAKER_04 5:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Um it's it's it's definitely it's not black and white for sure. You might have people um in that culture that really appreciate what you do to bring to bring, I would say, reference or light to that culture. It might not be something that a lot of people know about. So just kind of bringing light to uh culture or religion of such, and then make it, I would say, globalized, not for money, but just as, you know, I want to, I want to show my respect to this. I'm like, wow, that's very interesting. I would like to be more educated in that. Some people might actually really appreciate that. Um, but then others might be like, no, this is disrespectful. You know, this is you are not, you are not someone who practices or we don't know you. You have to maybe have some site some sort of initiation to be able to um, I would say embody a character as that. And then maybe it might be you might have to do a certain ceremony. So um there is a lot of, I would say, red tape with that. And then I would depending on cultures, you see a lot of people who cosplay Greek mythology and put people who especially um who might be in like practicing, like I would say, um, Wiccan or more spiritual, they might c they might, I would say, pay homage to the goddess Hecate uh spiritual practices, but then you see people cosplaying Hecate or Hekate. So it really just depends. Um, you're always you'll always have people that will not like what you do, but you just always want to make sure you're very respectful and you do research so that you are not, I would say, tone-deaf on what you do.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I like that. Okay. Um, so Lady Giovanni, I know that you have uh made certain comments regarding uh individuals' tone-deaf, thank you for that uh uh wording, uh renditions of certain characters or renditions of certain beings, uh, on social media specifically. So what would you say in your in your words is the is a definition of appreciation when uh uh paying homage or or respect to a specific character or or uh individual entity?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Um so just like uh Sane said, it is about doing your research. Um a lot of times the reason why appropriation happens is because people attach to the aesthetic of what they like, not the root of what it is. So uh for the most common appropriation, the Kardashians, of course, um, when they would wear braids in their hair and rename what the braids were called. They didn't do their proper research because no one really knows the origin of braiding hair in the black community, but we do, you know, so we have an appreciation for it because we know it protects our hair, and also there's a history behind it in, you know, early slavery times. But they don't know that. They look and see, oh my god, there's this hairstyle keeps popping up on my timeline, so now I want to do it. And they don't even care what culture it comes from, they don't care about how it will impact the culture it comes from, and they really just do it because of social media and trends. So for me, I agree with San A, it is about research because in reality, um, there are people who are not within the community who can respect the culture, such as you know, paying homage to the culture, um, you know, participating under someone who is a part of the culture and and getting information from them. So it is about understanding what you are doing for one. A lot of um appropriation is completely from ignorance, so there's that. But it's very easy to avoid appropriation, but people are really fucking dumb.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So that's that okay. Um very uh yes, that's not what I can say about it. Uh Miss Skittles, uh, I don't know how you can top that or or or follow that up, but um what what is your definition of appreciation?

SPEAKER_03 10:13

I just feel like all these ladies here are on one accord. Um, I wholeheartedly agree on research. That uh I mean, if you had asked me to go first, that would have been the first thing I said. Research is um, I think it's it's like paramount. Like even even even as a cosplayer, before I cosplay a character that I want to do, most of the time I'm cosplaying characters that I identify with or you know, relate to. But outside of what I enjoy watching them in or you know, see them in, I do further research on the characters. Um probably things that I don't know about the character that I haven't seen in the anime or you know, like it's always a background story. Um so um research is extremely important to me when when you feel like you want to appreciate a culture, um, and then acknowledging it. Um I think acknowledgement is also a major piece. Like it's one thing to do research, and then you just you just out here doing what you do, but nobody knows you've done the research because you haven't acknowledged it, or you haven't haven't let these people know. I'm doing this because of this, and the reason why I know this is because I've done this. Um so so yeah, when it comes, I mean when it comes to society um as a whole, I think, like um Lady Giovanni said, uh people are ignorant. They they just do whatever, they see whatever society has us, you know, glued to social media and whatever's trendy or cloud tracing, people hop on it. Um I think one of the uh well we we haven't got there yet. We're just talking about appreciation. So let me let me dial it out. Let me dial it back. But yes, um, for me, um when showing appreciation, it it what it comes down to ultimately is research and knowledge. Um give give give the culture their credit and give a reason why you even you know want to appreciate the culture in the first place. Like what led you to to Codfley or Box Braid or whatever, whatever you're trying to do, what led you here? Oh, what once you tell us that story, then we'll know. Oh, you oh you did your research. Okay, okay, I see you, I see you. And that that's important, that's important.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Okay, so I didn't expect I I do agree with you, uh, Miss Skittles, all three of you are on one accord. Uh and it's interesting because I believe each of you came from your own uh direction as it pertains to appreciation or you know, your topic of appreciation appropriation, you know. Of course, Sayane Cosplay was coming from more of a uh cultural and religious and and uh deity-based standpoint, and of course, um Lady Giovanni was talking from more of stylistically uh and heredity-based uh appreciation. And then, of course, Miss Gittles, you know, you're always standing for our cosplayers in a variety of different fashions. Um, and for myself, the my thought process when I think of appreciation and appropriation um is with music and with clothing. Um, and you know, there are, there have been many, let me rephrase uh videos and and and barbershop battles and all types of conversations that people have had about the understanding of appreciation as it pertains to um, I'll start with clothing because similar, if not the same, as uh, and I'll use uh Lady Giovanni's um Kardashian box braid example, you know, individuals for many, many years, black people or people of color have worn clothes based off of their uh uh their status in class and poverty. And it's what you can afford, it's what you because you know, no matter what you see on TV, no matter what you see in music videos back in the day on the box and uh VH1 Soul and everything else, um, you can only afford what your parents can afford. And if you could afford the high-priced stuff, you would get the high-priced stuff. If you were went to a school that had uniforms, you wear uniforms. Uh, if you could, you know, make it into TJ Maxx and uh Ross, then that's what you're gonna do. But you're gonna wear the clothing that you are afforded based off of your class and based off of where you are in life. And um with that, we were forced to kind of make our own styles based off of what we could acquire. So, uh, an example is if you lived in a DMV between the years of 99 and 2008, I'll even say 97 in 2008, there's a high chance, if you're a male or even a woman, there's a high chance that you wore a long white sleeve, uh long short-sleeve t-shirt, uh, white probably, or red, sometimes black, um, and you wore either long baggy jeans or long baggy shorts, and some type of mixture between an Air Force One or a Tim. Um, this was influenced by a variety of things. Uh, availability, affordability, um, of course, you know what we saw in music videos, what came down from New York, what came up from Atlanta, etc. But it was a variety of different things. But we were wearing it because that's what we could afford, and it was very simple. I can get a t-shirt from 7-Eleven, I can get jeans from Roster TJ Maxx. Look, that's what people did. That's what people did. Don't look at me sideways. Um, I can now the shoes might have been a little bit of an issue, but depending on how you afforded it and how your birthdays and your Christmas was, that's what you wore. But then when you see other people uh wearing the exact same things, especially after the wave is gone. I think that for me, as it pertains to clothing, is what bothers me the most. It's like the wave has been there, done that, settled. Now it's on the beach, just resting in the sand, and now you picked it up and made a sand castle out of it. And that's where I'm like, you're it doesn't seem like you're really appreciating it because you're not even wearing it for the reasons why we wore it. You could afford a variety of other things. And you can't tell me it's because you feel good in it, because you're you're not wearing it, you don't have the same. The reason why when we wore those clothing, those those clothes, sorry, there's a vibe that we had while wearing them. It wasn't always appreciation, it was I have to wear this because this is what I can afford. But when they wear it, it's a sense of pride because I'm doing something that they did or that they do or that I saw. Um, so that appreciation standard, I would say if they were trying to do it, they would wear it with us, not because of us. Does that make sense? And then uh going back to music, I'm sorry, uh Sayane, did you want to say something?

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Oh no, I was I was I was listening to what you were saying, and why do we do trend? Why do people engage in trends? And we engage in trends for multiple reasons. It could be a sense of a reflection of the status quo, it could be a reflection of community, it could be a reflection of camaraderie, but a lot of times it's status.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

So I hated Uggs. I hate them till this day, as I do with Crocs, I think it's fucking ugly. But why do people get it? I don't till this day I don't know. But you can tell that it when you have something that is worth value, crocs and ugs, as ugly as they fucking are, they aren't cheap. So when you see people are able, right? You see people that are able to afford these Norface and Crocs and and and um Yeezys, they are all ugly, hideous, hideous, but uh don't even get on Kanye and shit.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Let's let's let's stay on the path. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Look, that man got a whole lot of t-shirts like it with holes in it, okay?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Like I I think this is more so on a line of it could be appreciation for a trend, more so than appropriation, so to speak, but definitely appreciation for a trend. But trends come and go, yes, and then trends come back. Some do, some don't. I thought Dalkos was gonna be gone forever, and here we are with here we are, yeah. So I don't know, it's just very it's just very interesting. But no, please, please, please continue.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

And then the second part, of course, is what I was referring to with music. I, you know, appreciation, I feel like, is when an individual perfect is is I I believe Miss Skittles, actually, I think all three of you said it, where you pay homage to the person who defined the artistry in which you are you are in. Um, you know, I I you know, first since I was a child in church and everywhere else, you know, there's nothing new under this side. Now, I take that with a grain of salt because depending on what you're talking about, there are some new things. But as it pertains to music, and you know, you have to really just sit down and listen to it, especially right now, everything is influenced off of things from the past. You there's there's almost nowhere you can go where something has not either sampled, cut, copied.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

I was gonna say samples samples of samples of samples.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Of samples, oh my gosh. I like that guy, I I forget his handle on on in TikTok, but that guy that literally shows you this was bet based off of that, which is sampled from this, which is sampled from that, like until seeing that, you really don't know. Like, I remember I thought I was listening to the original of a song, and I was like, and then I heard like the 50s version of it. I was like, oh, I've been humbled. Like, music is such a is such a is such a uh a genre of art that has to live in appreciation. It has to, especially right now. Anyone who is in music, production, engineering has to accept the fact that you must appreciate where you are. Like, I don't care who what even if you're a rapper, you're talking about your struggle. Somebody has gone through a struggle, and maybe their struggle is not your struggle, but I know your flow is not your flow is not original. Ain't no way. Everybody's hit the cadence. Unless you're talking at a word per eight bar, there is no way, like, unless you're like, hello. Then go like unless that's your new joint, unless that's what we doing. And even somebody per Hobby's already done that, so it's like with a pre like in music, appreciation is for me, as I understand it, is is a necessity. And the the the definition of that is is understanding where your roots of your musical taste and understanding come from. That's why whenever I like the types of interviews for musicians that I love the most. Are when they're saying, who influenced you? Who guided your path? Who do you love? Who culturally uh inspired you? And then they're like, you know, what scares me sometimes is when people are like, you know, Beyoncé and Ariana Gondo's like, oh, you young. What's going on? But but I understand, you know, it's like I said, generational. Not everybody's gonna be influenced by Retha Franklin. Not everybody's gonna be influenced by Whitney Houston, which is which is weird. Um, not everybody's gonna be influenced by Sammy Davis Jr. Not everybody is gonna be influenced by Frank Sinatra. Like, not everybody's gonna know who the Rat Pack is. Like, there, well, one of the Rat Packs. Um, there the music goes back so far. Chopin, uh, uh, um, uh, uh, Bach. Like, there's Mozart, like, there's so many different versions of music and ways to appreciate it. What grinds my gears is when individuals actually come out their mouth and say, This is my shit. I did this. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

That's a great point. And when it comes to appropriation of music with artists, that's why they get sued. They get sued when they don't reference, or I say, I would say pay royalties to the original artist or the estate, right? To use a certain sample. Missy Elliott does a really good job with oh wow. Missy Elliott does such a great job at sampling.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

She's probably not going to because people are rude. I'm sorry to cut you off. She's probably not going to because people are rude, but she definitely should win or be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. She's in last place right now, or second to last place. I'm not happy about that because she's pretty hot.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Wow. I thought that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

No, she's nominated, but now she's not in there yet.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

What else do you need to do? What else do you need to? I just don't get it. I don't that's enough, that's another conversation.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

But um, Missy Elliott does a really good job at sampling music, and she'll sample it so that because I know a lot of times you've been trapped through a sample and you don't even know you'll just hear maybe the melody, but it's actually it'll be changed in something else. I can't stay in the rain by Miss Yellyot. I did not know that was involved for gossip folks, like she does such a brilliant job, and she will she will sample and she does such a great job of sampling culture. Like she's probably one of the one of probably the first female rapper or just rapper in general that I can think of that takes Asian influences with by appreciating them, not appropriating them.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Not appropriate, yeah. You know, because she does the what research.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Research. I love, I love Missy Elliott. I love Missy Elliott, she is a pioneer, she is revolutionary, but she always pays respects to the artists, to the culture. I remember when um I'm really hot came out and it was a dance battle with black.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Oh, I love that video so much.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Lost my mom, and this is like this is I think I was in middle school when it came out, and it was so fresh, and it was just a beautiful marrying of culture, yes, and how you can you can have people in in Asia who appreciates hip hop and also dance with black people who created hip hop, and so it's just a beautiful marriaging of appreciation and culture, and she always always does so well. I don't know anyone else that does it. Gwen Stefani. But that that that's the opposite, you know. You have you have, I think she tried, but when it came to execution, she I feel like Gwen Stefani monetized off of it much more with like Harajuku girls, like you saw bags all over the place, yeah, with those little Asian Chibbies. They were cute though. I can't lie, they were cute.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

She had the girls in the video, they went on tour with her. She went, she did, she did uh uh uh a toke uh Japan tour. Like she did she did the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

But I felt like Harajuku.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

They were not. I cannot deny that. Even within the videos, they they did talk a little bit. A little bit.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

I feel like they were more so seen as puppets and an accessory. Oh god, there it is. To be honest, and that was that was that's the big hit. It was it was like they were an accessory to her, whereas Missy Elliott embraced like she stepped back and let them shine.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

You only saw like her face rapping, and then she like joined the dance battle at the end. You're right.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Exactly. So, and I feel like that she always she always lets people, she gives culture their shine. Yeah, when it was get your freak on, she paid homage to coming to America. Yes, and um with the the African dance uh scene, but she paid homage to it and she also let them shine. Like Missy Elliott is very, she's a genius when it comes to tactfully researching while also implementing her own style, and that really is what appreciation is. And I think a lot of people don't get that. They're like, oh, this is cool, I can do it this way, but you don't wear culture as clothes. It takes and a lot of artists do that. Drake, Jesus, Drake, I he must be tuning.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Are you are you just wait? I didn't know we were shooting shots right now. Is that what we're doing?

SPEAKER_03 27:54

But Saturnada all the way went into it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Because you know what, people want to understand or even probably acknowledge what's going on in music if I don't bring names. And these are also conversations that has been going on so that people can see it and be like, oh wow, that really is like something that's an issue. And you know, Drake is an artist, artist, and and you know, he has his accolades and and and more power to him, but I do feel very bothered when people like to pick and choose their Caribbean accent out of fucking nowhere, especially when you have no Caribbean background. I was like, who is he? I was like, what? I was like, what? Like, you just pick and choose when you want to be from the islands, and then you pick and choose when you want to be from Canada, and then you want to pick and choose when you want to be black. No, that's not that's that's given I'm not even gonna say what I was gonna say, but it's g is given fuck nigga energy, and I just don't appreciate that because it's not cool. We're not we're not a trend, like there's nothing wrong, and this is gonna this is going to rock the boat because I don't like this artist at all. Okay, this artist at all. I don't like what it's doing, but this artist don't get it shut down. But this this artist knows how to collaborate and pay homage. I don't know. This so I'll say each art each artist that I know Beyonce has has paid homage to African culture when it came to dance, and she did her research. There was the we was um, I forgot what it was, it could have been Who Run the World, and she actually studied with um, and it's not that's not the artist that I don't like.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Oh, thank God. I was like, we can't, I'm not fighting the beehive. You can take that down. Not before this concert, they two riled up.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

No, no, no. I'm not trying to have the beehive on my ass. That's not it. But I'm looking at other because since we're on music, and I think I always focus on cosplay, but music is perfect. So Beyoncé, she always does research with dance. Like she she I think she went to Africa and she had um, I forgot where they were from. I don't know if it was from Senegal, but Senegal, they had their own footwork, yeah, and she studied with them. Yes, she learned the culture and then gave them their shine and put them in the video too. Yeah, exactly. But she did research because you're not gonna look at something on YouTube like, oh, I can do that, and then just do it. No, you want to know what is the root, yeah, what what what what is the customs um with Bollywood, uh, and so you think you can dance. You have the actual choreographers from India who tell you your fing the your finger placement is very important and paramount because if you do something you think you're freestyling, it is disrespectful to the religion. Things that I didn't know about, and I think it's beautiful because so you think if you dance, they also pay homage to the culture while also being very respectful because it's not just for Americans, these are people who are looking at who are practicing that religion who are watching you with like a hawk. But I love that because if you're gonna be able to pick up another culture, you better do the research and know that it's not for trend. You know that this is this is a people's representation, and you want to be in, there's nothing more beautiful than representing a culture, but doing it the right way. Because we love being able to see ourselves in media. We talk about how we're not representative, we're represented enough. You know, I love how Nigerian culture is being represented, uh, especially seeing how Africans were treated terribly in school and made fun of. And now, you know, it's weird seeing this huge trend of Afro-beats that I never saw. It's absolutely sick before. Um, you know, and but it again, you see more of appreciation for African culture. You see not African American, just black people in general and walks of life all over the world appreciating African culture. You see black people, you see Korean people taking um DNA tests, um, uh uh, I would say um um, thank you. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Ancestry um tests to see where are my roots? I want to know, and actually trying to go and learn more about them. And that all of that is because when you have appreciation and you do it right, and then it starts to become global. People, their eyes start to open up. It's like, wow, I'm really interested. I want to learn more about that. What else can I learn? What else can I do? Now I'm starting to see more people trying different food, and it's not just with that's another that's a whole story.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

I got way too many African booty scratchers and you eating African snacks in high school for people to be trying African food on TikTok and YouTube, acting like, oh my god, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

But that's that's the that's the appropriation part. And Jacob, I would love to hear your version on that.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

I'll put the one moment. Miss Skittles wanted to say something, hold on.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

I've been wanting to say something for a very long time. So um, so this is okay, so we going, I'm going into my devil's advocate mode. Okay, so um, we are just talking about, so we're talking about appropriation. Yes, okay. So um, so in uh Sione like went to it real quick, um, but dancing, we talk about dancing, we talk about cultures and things like that. Um and yes, Afro, I love, I'm I love that Afrobeats is like uh like cool now. I mean it it it it feels it feel it makes me feel some type of ways a little bit, but the same way like anime is cool now. So it's it makes me feel the exact same thing, I give it but um devil's advocate, um is it appreciation or appropriation now that it's trending and people people are making like the the internet has caused uh a viral, you know, it's a viral thing to make TikTok videos, reels, and of of of Afri African dances. These are look I I watch them and I see the white people, you know, they come out, they they slide in and they start doing the the whatever, it's the Tim's or whoever, you know, and and part of me is like this is part of me is like, okay, I see you with the dance moves, um, but all I know they didn't do no research. This is this is a trend. This is a this is a trendy thing that's happening on the internet. And they think it's cool, they like the song, they like the beat, they like the dance. I'm a dancer, so I'm a I'ma I'm a I'ma do these dance moves and get these numbers. Um, and we know, we we absolutely know for sure that they did not do no research on any of this. In fact, the TikTok video that they saw was probably of other white people doing the same. Yep. Um so at that point, I mean, we are we already discussed the definition of appreciation, and we already know where appropriation is. But um, but because this is a trending thing, and essentially they'll probably do it one time unless they unless they make a habit out of it. Is that appreciation or appropriation?

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Do you want me to go first or you wanna go first, Any?

SPEAKER_02 36:04

I wanna go, I guess I'm gonna ask a question. I guess when when would it be considered gatekeeping when it comes to dancing and us just being black?

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Because that is a wonderful question.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

So if I could just answer that, please, because she shut my entire responsible hand.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Um, so I think the only time that it is really appropriate to gatekeep is when it is to protect the culture at hand and to protect the trueness and the honor of that culture. So for me, I wish we gatekeeped black hair, I wish we gatekeep our products. Um, I wish we gateked uh the culture of African American culture, especially, because seeing white people and non-black people wear grills, wear bamboo earrings, you know, go from wearing more professional or corporate outfits to wearing like sweats and slacks and cooji is a slap in the face. Cooji was a black thing, right? But the problem, the problem that with that is that that is something that curated in our culture because of you know systemic racism, and we are still outgrowing, you know, the after effects of slavery. So when I see my culture and and the format of it from you know things that we couldn't control and and being at the short end of the stick, and then now it is a trend, and now everybody is joining in and wearing it, it's just like there's a lack of respect for the culture. There's just looking at it from an entertainment point of view and perspective. And that's another reason why I don't like K-pop or J pop at all, because they completely rip off black communities and black uh culture as a whole. But again, when it comes down to gatekeeping, it should only be used to protect the culture, you know, not to be like you can't show appreciation, you can't participate, but there's a thin line between, you know, appreciating the culture and then appropriating it. So unless you are appropriating it, that that's when we should gatekeep. But if you are showing proper appreciation, then there's no reason to gatekeep. We can welcome you, we can show you the ropes, but it's it's about boundaries and respect when it comes down to gatekeeping.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

I agree. I agree with you. Um when it comes to dance, I usually am very, very quiet because I know a lot of black people, I know I have friends that are like, I don't like seeing how Cajun people do hip hop. And I so I have my reservation. I I I have my reservation on that. I used to dance, and I used to dance with people that were that were of different ethnicities, and so for us, we danced because we loved it. Yes, and dance is is universal. Yes, my issue more so is social media, and when a black person or black group of people dance, they're like, oh, it's cool. It's TikTok isn't is notorious for this, and that's why um black creators they stopped dancing.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Yeah, that that band was was was I was gonna bring out the band, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

That band was and so it's not it's not white people or non-black people dancing that's the issue. It is how social media caters to the non-white audience more so than black people, and I think so like you can have Susie.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

You said it caters to the non-white audience?

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Sorry, uh it caters so I I don't like how like social media caters to non-black, there we go, um, excuse me, non-black um audiences more so than black audiences, and when it comes to going viral, audiences are creators, but what creators like well so excuse me, let me let me let thank you. In my mind it's making sense. So for us as viewers, we unless we find if unless we find black artists or black creators, that's that's what we're gonna see on our algorithm, right? But that's because we're liking, we're sharing, and therefore our algorithm is making us see black content. Yeah, if we didn't do that, we would see Caucasian content automatically as default. And so you can have Susie do the butterfly, and you can have you know Chine or Tiffany do the butterfly, Susie will get all of the views, all the shares because Susie is white or non-black. And that I would say because I've noticed that with algorithms, even when it comes to YouTube, when it comes to Instagram, let's say if if social media doesn't know what your race is, you automatically are gonna get non-black content first. And it's always been that way. Um your your computer will know that you're black, know your race, know your sexuality by what you what you look for. But let's say if you get your your computer brand new, they don't know any cookies on it, you're gonna get white content first.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yes, you've known about the cookies. I'm so proud.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Yes, you're gonna get white content first. So it's not my issue, is not with non-black creators doing content, it's how social media is set up so that we see them first. Of course. And that is my issue because she's not doing anything different than I'm doing, but I'm not being promoted, and that's really the issue for me. I'm sorry, yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

No problem. So only thing I was gonna say, um, I agree with you. And the the the argument, um let me take a little bit out of Miss Skittle's book and try to be devil's advocate. Um, the argument about the cookies and about the algorithm is part of the, I don't say issue, but part of the algorithm is presenting you with what is the most popular and most viral items on social media. As a person who just got his Instagram a little over a year and a half ago, I turned on Instagram for the first time. And outside of the you all, you know, who I followed first, most of the content that was filtering through the reels and through the videos and everything else was white content. But it was the most popular white content, it was the most viral content. And kind of going back to what you were saying about um not having an issue with the white content creator, because if it's a white content creator who creates, you know, who dances or sings or what have you, don't forget there's that, I don't call it anything, but I'm gonna call it something right now. It's the um the um, I was gonna say white black effect, but I don't want to call it that. I'll call it the um yes girl effect. Where black people instinctively, whenever somebody does something that they expect from a black person, but it comes from somebody who isn't black, they go, yes, girl. And it causes them to like, share, or follow. And that increases.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

I don't know about follow algorithms.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Well, not everybody follows, but some people follow. If you see enough of the person, they doing it up. They do sometimes follow, but they at least like and share. And now that the algorithm is incorporating shares, because Y'all know I'm the king of not posting something, but I'll share it to y'all. Like, hey, look at this. Oh, this, I think this is for you. And now the algorithm is incorporating shares. And when we do that, depending on who it is, it's no longer just about the likes. It's now also about the shares and the followers and the subscribers. And that part of the algorithm, too, is not only their fault, it's our fault. So we can't, I mean, we we at the beginning, yes, we blame the algorithm, we blame the programming. You are correct. That's how social media was designed. But now the algorithm is such a learning AI system where it's basing it off of so many different factors. And I'm not saying black people or not or POCs as a whole should just stop like sharing, subscribing to white content. That's not what I'm saying. White content sounded weird. I'm just saying that we also have to take the blame for it as well. Because you can't say that you've never liked, shared, or followed anybody white.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

This is so this is how social media is built was built. This was the way it was built, the this cycle created by us. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

So I I have to circle back around to what Jacob was saying. Um, when it comes down to that yes girl mentality, that is also we're gonna circle back to gatekeeping. Because in reality, the nasty thing I've seen about social media is that when black people do it, people see it as a loss of value. But when white people do it, it is appraised, it is now trendy, it is now corporate appropriate. This girl is spitting. And I hate it. I absolutely hate it. And I I'm gonna sit here in a minute because I've never admitted this to anybody because this is this is something that I had to sit with and realize um as a kid, especially. Um, but growing up, I was I was around a diverse setting. I wasn't around a lot of black people. So in my head, I didn't like braids as a kid growing up. I thought they were unprofessional growing up. I remember watching Raven Simone and seeing her mother and wondering why nobody would put a wig on her or straighten out her hair. So for me, it took me getting back into my community to finally find appreciation for my own culture because being in a diverse setting and not having someone be pro-black around me made me feel like certain parts of my culture was not acceptable. So the fact that I had to grow up a black girl not feeling like my hair was acceptable, not feeling like the accessories and the clothes that my community wears was acceptable. And now that white people want to dip their nasty ass, fungus ass toes in it, now it's acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

It is I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 47:14

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

That I would have enjoyed my culture just as much as these white people are enjoying my culture. But it honestly, again, as a child, I felt robbed. And it angers me when I saw, you know, Kylie and her stupid ass grills and her braids and her fucking hair. And it pissed me off to see so many non-black women start to date black men because of them being a trend. Like, I can listen, I can go into a whole downward spiral with this, but I'm gonna stop right here.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

That that'll be the next episode. Appropriation after dark.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Appropriation after dark, absolutely. Um but again, it's like this is this is the whole point of gatekeeping is to honor and respect the culture and not have people dip their toes into the culture and completely completely remove the the truth behind it or the actuality of the culture. Like it to me, when other people get into a culture and they don't appreciate it, they dilute it.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Jesus. I'm sorry, sorry, Nan.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

I want to go back to dance, and dance is always such a touchy subject for a lot of people, but hip-hop dance, um, it turns from appreciation to appropriation very quickly. And I think that's really what it is, and that's why a lot of people are like, I don't like when non-black people do hip hop. Um, to be fair, I don't do research on my dances, I just do it as trend. So it's not fair for me to say that you know you have to do research on dances to be able to do the dance, because that's not how we were brought up. To be honest, I didn't research on where the butterfly came from. I didn't research where I didn't read, I didn't, I didn't even do research. So I am guilty of not doing research of the African dances either. I was like, I I don't know how to do these African dances. I'm gonna go see how they do it.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

But are you guilty of appropriating the African dances?

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Now, what is appropriation of the African dance though? That's the thing. Now, appropriation is just dancing. Like if we do the electric slide or if we learn these dances, like how you have Superman Daho or all these things, they're dance trends. You have all these dance trends of different generations. So is it appreciation when we learn to do it so that we can do it together in like at the club or at a homecoming as a sense of community? Or is that appropriation when it comes to I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

No, no, I'm I cut you off. I'm sorry, finish.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

No, we're fine. So I I think that's dance is always tricky for me. I think when it comes to social media, social media, yes, yes, it is, and it it is our fault when it comes to sharing non-black content of dancers. And I think a lot of that is the trope that white people can't dance, and so that we were brought up on. And so we're yeah, I was brought up that white people have the list. That was really white.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

I mean, it it's still a fact. I mean, it's just not all of them, right? Like, like, like, like, I'm sorry, like uh uh uh Lady Giovanni said, they're a little bit diluted now. No offense. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Exactly. So when I think that yes, girl fact, when you see something, when you see Asian people doing hip hop, when you see white people doing hip hop and doing it well, we're like, okay, yeah, something like that. And then I feel like black people are more supportive, and that's really the issue. We are more supportive to give you athletes, like you did that, we love it. We're more supportive inviting you to the cookout than you might deserve. When it comes to dancing, when you you might we are we will invite you to the cookout more so than you might deserve. Just because you have a little bit of rhythm and two step, that doesn't mean that you're invited to our culture. But I feel like we are more able to do that. If you had a a black person doing metal or rock and roll or punk, there's gonna be a lot of reservations with the white culture when it comes to us.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Well, that's the the the not to disagree with you, but I think even with that, unless you are into metal as a black person, black people will eject you from the cookout.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

How about to say where less important are people doing things outside our culture as well?

SPEAKER_02 51:57

I would I just went, I didn't I didn't even go into that. I didn't go back.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, I would go over me and Miss Kipp was like, wait a minute now.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Yeah, no, no, that's that's that's a whole another conversation, right? I was saying we're more accepting of other people, I would say engaging in acts of our culture than I would say a white person, and we're we're trying to, and not that rock and roll is white either. Like black people invented um rock and roll. So let's go let's go back to that. But I'm talking about like I would say like death metal, heavy metal, uh grunge, garage, you know, rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Keeping in mind, like white, from what I've seen on social media, white people specifically, well, let me not say white people, metal heads, specifically certain metal heads, specifically gatekeep metal. Like they don't like um was it baby metal? Is that what it's uh is that what she's called? The Japanese metal artist? Like a cute little Japanese girl, but she does metal? Or is it a group of them? Is it baby metal?

SPEAKER_02 53:01

I I I know baby metal, baby metal is a genre, but there's so many genres.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Well there's a group called well I'm I'm probably wrong. I apologize for the for the fans of them, but there's a group that there's a Japanese, you know, kind of um what's it called? Uh magical girl type of group, but they do metal. Um, I can't remember the name of the group. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of metal heads that don't like them. They don't like when black people do it, obviously, because similar to what we were talking about about gatekeeping our culture, they feel like that is their culture and they don't want us to uh uh break into it. I mean, there's a variety of white people who feel like we're stealing everything from them when obviously we can we feel the same way about our own stuff. So it's like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:46

Now you know how it feels, beach.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Not what I was gonna say. But um the the question then becomes for me, the question then becomes if we're talking about appreciation versus appropriation, in a situation where both sides feel like the opposing sides, I don't want to say opposing, but I'll say the other group, um, is infiltrating and or taking from what they feel like belongs to them, is it only bad when they are appropriating it, or is it bad because they're trying to join it all together? Because and and although Miss Skittle said we know what it is, let's for the one time for the one time, let's give our explanation or definitions of what appropriation is. Because some people feel like appropriation, like I'll use my my one of my definitions of appropriation is where you take from a culture, you take from a group, you take from a background, and you use it to gain some type of influence or monetary gain. That's my version of appropriation. Now, it may be different for all of you, but I know anytime somebody takes a style, takes a uh uh musical uh influence, takes clothing, takes uh uh uh something from a group, a religious group, a cultural group, a race, if you want to use that word, a gender, a orientation, uh whatever, and uses it to gain some type of influence, whether it be social media based, monetary, uh, academic, professional, gain some type of influence, they are appropriating. Yes, Ms. Gibbs.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Um, I I do agree. I agree with your definition. I also um also think that appropriation is again, this goes back to what I said about appreciation, lack of acknowledgement. Um and Lady Gina Ronnie also um hit on this with uh the Kardashians, but um, well Kardashians for sure, um, but people uh outside black culture in general do this all the time. Um but when you don't acknowledge it, and then you like you said, you take something and you act as if it like you made it up, like this is this is your thing. You gave it a new name, it's trendy now. Um and because it's trendy, you are you are making, you know, uh you're making monetary value or things things of that nature. So um when you steal something, and at that point it's stolen. Um, because you you've taken something from that culture, renamed it, uh, rebranded it, and and slapped your your shit across it and was like, oh, this is this is something new. Look at me, this is something new, and now it's trending, but the people that you stole it from know it's stolen. So that that is appropriation. Um, yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

So I'm gonna go into clothing, and I'm going to go into circa 2004 when the theme kids would um the scene kids are. I I don't know how to explain scene. It's kind of like I would say rock emo kind of well, not that we use the G word.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

We don't use the G word no more.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

G? What's that?

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Goth.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Goth? I don't know, but I I I'll say alternative. There we go. Okay, that's the umbrella.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

I mean, that's what we called them back when I was in high school. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

We call them scene kid. Well, it depends. Scene is more so like with like the hair soup to the side, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

That's what we call them.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Um, but I'll say alternative because that's a better umbrella term. So I remember we would wear, well, not me specifically, but I would remember that they would wear long sleeve shirts and then they would pump like puncture holes to the thumb.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Yes. And I remember all of our clothes have that shit.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

That's that's that's where I'm going because I remember the the perception of how they dress. They're like, oh, they're they they're unprofessional, they're dirty. Why would someone ruin their clothes like that? And just to see that from high school to now, it's marketed as this is cool. This is at Lululemon, this is Nike, rebound, and it's just blows my fucking mind because I remember they were seen as undesirable. Like that act to quote unquote mess up your sleeves was seen as undesirable, pattered. Why would you do that? Even with the pants, how they were um they were oversized pants, they were tattered on the edges, frayed, like that's so unkept jeans.

SPEAKER_03 58:47

Yes, the patches. They had they had the they knew they knew what it was.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

They knew what it was. They knew what it was. Like, why wear mittens where I can have my fingers out and my thumbs out? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 59:00

I didn't know my hand would stay so warm. I honestly it was a science that did not make sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

And to see to see how um they were seen as the fashion was incredibly undesirable and unkept and dirty, and to now see it monetized, that is appropriation to it to me. Um because there was there was there was such hatred towards it. I go to school. I was like, I'll school, I'll get my ass.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

Well, you know, you know what people always say you know, you you hate what you fear, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 59:40

I had the chimos, yeah. And that's why I said they're not really golf, because they they still wear colors, like they're right, like they do the bright hair and the and the brush to the front. I had a I had a uh I had a demo baby, you know, a brush to the front. Yeah, like yeah, they knew what it was, but like you said, um now so ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

Uh-oh. No, no, don't jump into it. We gotta wind down now. We gotta wind down.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

Okay. But yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Yeah, so um I definitely no no, I I I I agree because that that's kind of what I was going for when I was saying about how any group can have something taken and and and removed, not removed, I'm sorry, taken and utilized from them for somebody else to gain some type, like at the end of the day, I'm not gonna go into the whole, you know, big pharma and you know, huge corporations, and you know, at the end of the day, you know, whoever who is taking advantage of all of these different trends and styles. Like I was I was talking to somebody, was it my sister? I think it was talking to my sister the other day um about jeans, like how the style of jeans that we used to wear that were kind of baggy, it switched into this kind of skinny jean phase, right? But the problem is, even if you don't want skinny jeans, the the closing, the clothing, sorry, the jeans that are supposed to be regular or relaxed fit are still cinched. So there's still skinny jeans in the way. So the style, the the the general population is now being formed into this style that has been appropriated to make us all wear the exact same thing. So even if we weren't looking to do it, it's making us do it. So kind of going back to what you were saying before and what I timed in on, where the alternative clothing that they created themselves, they were cosplayers in and of themselves, where they had to make this clothing because it wasn't on the, I mean, unless you went to Hot Topic, but they had to do what they had to do and they cut the holes in it. Now it's a part of the mainstreamline of clothing on the shelves. They took their quote-unquote culture and they incorporated it into the mainstream. So is appropriation where mainstream takes your culture, or is it appropriation where another group takes and takes advantage of your culture? And that's my last question before we have the wrap up.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:06

Both?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

I will start off. Both.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:10

Lady G of the Look, just because you got money don't mean you ain't you are you not appropriate, my nigga. Like, yes, you still appropriate. You and and it's and it's probably worse because you uh like here we have okay, cosplay for example. You have this, you know, this one cosplayer who decided to cosplay um the uh old girl from the the Black Mirror episode. And then you have a whole corporation that like stole some shit and I don't know, black hair care products nowadays white folks. But I'm just saying, I'm using that as an example.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

That's a really good example because that happens on the daily.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Yes, it does, it happens all the time. So now you got you know, you got white people out here using black hair care products for what dog Oh my god, my hair is falling out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

It lied. I'm not dark and lovely. I love that video. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't change the fact that you appropriated something. You appropriated and you got money, so you you worse than that that cosplay chick. I mean she bad too, but you you worse because now you selling it to folks. Like you said, you are monetizing off of your appropriation.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

I have a question, and I don't know where this falls in appropriation. Maybe I think this is where gatekeeping should be. Um, when you have airlines like Air Jamaica, it was bought out by a Caucasian person. When you have um a lot of uh um, I would say Afrocentric hair products that are not black old, and people started figuring that out. And it's like, wait a second, how can where we we want to put money into our community, but you're actually really putting money into Caucasian people's hands that are profiting off of black products. Yeah, I don't know what that is called. I don't know if it's because it's not there's they're not creating taking something and creating something new and calling it something else, but I feel like insidiously you still have non-black people profiting off of black products without people knowing. I think no one really even knew until they had to do research on it because they on purpose stay behind the scenes. Yeah, they will be like, hey, we'll Carol's daughter will have the spokesperson who is black, but your money is not going to black businesses. And I don't know, I feel like that's where gatekeeping should be because we we always want to talk about how we want to put money into our community, but we find out not many of us that are, I would say, mainstream and doing well. It like we don't we don't know until we do research that a lot of our products that we're spending money on is actually going to white people and not our community. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Not to, I don't want to like make this a whole conversation, but the difficulty with doing the research behind those things, and I'll give you a real quick timeline. So let's say Miss Skittles created a hair care line, right? And you know, uh, we'll call it uh uh Skittles for your hair, every style and texture. Wow, that was good. Write that one down. Um so let's say she created this this hair care line, and um because this is coming directly out of her house, because this is coming directly out of her basement, she's ordering all of the different ingredients, she's pre mixing it herself, buying the bottles, making the labels, selling it directly to you. That means each and every part of this, she has to. Make some type of profit off of. So the Miss Carrolls that is at Dollar General for let's say $5 a bottle, Miss Skittles has to sell it for $13 a bottle because she has to pay for every single part. So this goes back into black owned businesses and how black people or people in general, well, I'll say black people, specifically say, oh, why don't you lower your prices? Why is your stuff so much so much more expensive compared to the stuff that's in the stores? So Miss Skittles still, like she says, okay, let me listen to these black people, let me lower the price a little bit, but now she's in the red because she's not getting the money back for what she's putting into the product. So she's selling it for half price. Eventually she's in the red. Eventually, she loses hundreds of thousands of dollars, but she doesn't want to give up her company. So what she has to do is now be sponsored. And she has to be sponsored by the only group of people, well, one of the only groups of people who have the money to sponsor her. Because she would look for a black person, but maybe a black person she couldn't find or couldn't help. So she went to a white person or a white bank. So now this white person is now the head. That's why potentially Miss Skittles will be the focal point, the face of the company, because it is her brand, but she had to give away 51%, 70%, 60% of her business for this white conglomerate to be able to fund it. Now she can sell her product for $5, $6, $4 a bottle because now they can mass produce it, but she's no longer the company head. She's no longer the figure head. She's just the face of the company. Not saying this is what always happens by no means, but this is a factor that happens in some black businesses, which makes it difficult to really, like you said, gatekeep or find that layer, that line, that thin line of appreciation and appropriation. Because people, now that people can do their own research using Google, they can determine who's behind these companies. But at the end of the day, if a company's brand specifically says, and you read it, you like the back of it, you read the the base of it, and it says for black hair, for different types and textures, 4C, this, that, and the third, like all these words that I don't know anything about because I just got into this whole hair care journey recently. But when you when you read all these different words, you're like, oh, somebody of my ethnicity, what is wrong with me?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Ethnicity.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

I don't know why. I can't say that word, but yes, must have created this. But then somebody does the research, puts it on TikTok, oh no, this is owned by a whole white man or white woman or white company, and you start pulling your dollars out of it. Are you really preventing the appropriation? Are you gatekeeping, or are you not doing the proper proper research to determine what actually happened to this brand? So, you know, again, we kind of, like I said, straight off what we were originally talking about, but it's also something to think about. Going back to the initial thing that all of us had said, or you three said, like I said, the women uh definitely had me cornered. One of the most paramount things between appreciation and appropriation is research. If you are trying to support not just a black business, but a brand in general, do the research. People have been wearing Levi's for years, and then they finally did the research to figure out what Levi's is about. Like do your you have it at your hand. You have the entire history of the world, except for the stuff that they block out because they don't want you to know about it, in your hand. Do the research. Find out what you are putting your money into. And if you don't like what you're putting your money into, make it yourself. I mean, I would say support black business, but you're gonna you're definitely gonna say, oh, this is too much. Everybody always says it's too much, no matter what. You're always gonna find something you're gonna feel like is too much. Not always because you feel like it's a black business and it's cost too much, but because you're also black and you may be balling on a budget. It's just how it is. So it's like it's a double-edged sword. It's like you you want to support, but you somebody needs to support you so you can support them.

unknown 1:09:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:58

I agree. And that's that's why this conversation is so interesting because it's like, how do you get out of it? And it's so intertwined that there's really no way, really, to uh for us to get out of it. And I would love to have like another part two to this.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:16

No, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Um uh it's going into I would say mass production of like clothes and and uh child labor. There's stuff. Jesus Christ, which would be a great conversation because there's everything that we ever own has some type of very dark out, dark past. Um, and and that past might be current. Um, everything we're wearing, unless we are making food ourselves and making clothes ourselves. Trying to, you know, and and that it's very difficult to gatekeep a lot of things. And then I don't want, and I think what it is, I don't want us to gatekeep things when it's convenient for us either. Or I I don't want us to just gatekeep things because we feel like it's anti-black. If we're gonna gatekeep, we can't pick and choose gatekeeping just because it affects us, it has to be everybody. We can't pick and choose our company. Yeah, it has to be all or nothing. And we can speak on the black community that we gatekeep when it's convenient. But when but when it comes to other cultures, we're kind of quiet. And we can't just say, you know, well, what about they don't do it for us? I'm like, but that's not what equality is about. I mean, but that's not what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

They actually do, they just do it at higher levels, but I don't want to start that conversation either.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

Well, this is a very good conversation. Um, I just I just it's it's something to think about. I I appreciate you, Suchi, because I didn't know that. I didn't know about uh that that's brilliant, and it makes so much sense. But again, why do we not do the research? Yep. Um and a lot of times is I don't know where to start.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:04

Or I'm too damn lazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

Um what references are viable. Or lazy as fuck, and that's really what it is. Um, so it's the I think there's a lot of good points to what you said, and you know, then if we take away the money from Carol's daughter, there there still is a black. Carol's daughter's gonna be broke.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:26

Yeah, there's too cry. Oh, look, uh soft and beautiful, dark and loving, all of them, all of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:34

All of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:34

All of them, all of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

B E P, Air Jamaica. There's so many. There's so many. So many. Where where do you start? And I think that's why it's really good to kind of give businesses to friends because you know it's just them. You know, um, for for black-owned businesses where it really is a one-man show or one woman show or one-day show, um, that there is no other middlemen. It is just them.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:01

It is just them.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

Um, and I think social media, that is the pro to social media. You have a lot of black businesses that are being um promoted on Instagram, on TikTok, um, that we would not have that exposure if it wasn't for social media.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:17

True.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

So I would say that is the pro to that, even when it comes to food. Um, there's there the there are businesses, black-owned businesses that are not on Google um at all. You can't find it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Because I'm not gonna go into that. I've I've been a part of the Google verification process for more than one business. It is the most annoying system of checks and balances that you have to go through. No disrespect to Google in any way, shape, or form. It's just more so because of your not status, because of your level or state. There it is, because of your stage in how your business has progressed, it is difficult for you to become verified in a variety of ways. And we'll go into that in another time. Anyway, but let's wrap up. Thank you, panelists. Uh, this has been a very eye-opening, I think, for each and every one of us. Um, we all learned something today about those, about that, that thin line. Because what what's interesting about the thin line between appreciation and appropriation isn't about how thin the line is, it's about how many lines there are. Because I think based off of what we just talked about, that thin line falls into a variety of genres, it falls into a variety of pay grades, it falls into a variety of cultures, and it falls into a variety of I don't want to say this, um wants and cares. Because if you don't want to appreciate, or you don't care that you are pro appropriating, there is no thin line. I'm doing this on purpose. I'm I'm like, if your mindset is I'm on social media to gain some notoriety or to gain some type of monetary increase, no matter who. I've seen so many whipped off TikToks, and I'm like, all you got to do is put that person's handle in the bottom right there. And I go into the bottom, and I'm like, I don't, I know somebody else said this. I don't see the I don't see the I don't see the handle. And but the problem is I've already been on the video too long. You've got your credit for me, and I can't do anything about it. I can't take it back. Even if I block you, I don't want to see this anymore. Still there. They already got what they need from me. And the like I said, that's that final if you even care. Because it's not too much. If you can type all the words and hashtags you put in it, you could have put that at this person or reference to that person. Very simple. But anywho.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:51

Ooh, you just you just you just made you just gave me this whole like accidental uh accidental appropriation? Yeah, I no appreciation for appropriation. Appreciation for appropriation.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:09

Man, yep, I see it all the time. Because yeah, like I said, I I don't post things, I share it with y'all. But if when I'm about to share, I do I do the research. I'm like, who said this first? Where did this come from? I'm not just going to like, is this the right content creator? I bet. I'm not about to like I'm not about to give because y'all, all of you three, and then everybody else who's on the panel on the podcast are highly social beings on social media. So if you want to, well, more than me. Um, if you want to, you can easily make it a store, you can make it a real, you could post it, and you'll give that person the credit that they deserve. But I'm not about to give that credit to somebody else. No, sir. No, I won't. No, ma'am. But anyway, sorry, I started going off the tangent again. So just to wrap up this episode, uh, as Sayone Cosplay said, we are definitely gonna revisit this in the near future. Um, so stay tuned to that. Um, but of course, I have to give credit where credit is due, uh, and I have to give our panelists the opportunity to tell you how they can be reached, starting with Miss Sayone Cosplay. How can you be reached?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:12

Hello, my name is Sayone Cosplay. I can be reached on Sayone Cosplay on Facebook, Sayone underscore cosplay on IG, and Sayone period cosplays at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

Ms. Skittles.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:28

Uh Ms. Skittles, M Z Skittles, T R underscore Cosplay on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. And then on Twitter, it's M-I-Z Skittles two phases.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

Oh Lord, you you getting on you you getting on uh you getting on the on the on the Twitter?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:49

I've been on the Twitter, just don't be on the Twitter.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

Oh, I thought I said, but you know, you on the Twitter, you know what they be doing on Twitter now. They don't have time no more. Twitter's the new Tumblr child. Don't go to sleep on Twitter. Um, literally. Lady Giovanni, how can you be reached?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

Uh, I can be reached at FW underscore the pink dream on Instagram and TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

Awesome, awesome. Please follow her. Her content is amazing. She'll be turning up. She don't she don't even want y'all to know she turned up. She's turning up on TikTok. Go follow uh Lady Giovanni. Um, I, of course, can be found on IG, Suchi knows shogun. Suchi underscore no underscore shogun. Suchi is spelled T-S-U-C-H-I. I have to keep doing that because somebody told me y'all don't know how to spell it. Um, also, I know, right? Also, I can be found on Umbral Starcade on pretty much all platforms, TikTok, no, not TikTok. That's the only one not. Not on TikTok, but on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, uh, Twitch, YouTube. Um, also, Blur Creations, check out our store. Uh, we're in the middle, no, not the middle. Are we in the middle? Yeah, we're in the middle of don't get me wrong. Aquarius season? Yes, we're in Aquarius season. Are we? We're not seen.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

I thought you say Black History Month CEO.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:12

I was about to say that. I was trying to get everybody to get you. So we're in the middle of Aquarius season. In the middle of Aquarius season, about to go into Pisces? Yes? No?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:22

Yes. Okay, cool. No, yes, yes, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

See? I'm not good at this. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:31

So check out the Zodiac Girls line on BlurCreations.com or Blur Creations Shop. Also, we're having our Black History Month sale uh where things are a certain percentage off. I'm probably gonna get chewed out uh by Dr. Quinzel. Um, because if I tell you percentage and it's not that percentage, I'm gonna get yelled at. So I'm just gonna say it's docked a certain percentage. So go check out our melanated collection on Blurred Creations. We got a couple of new items there, actually, new items each week. Um, again, blurred creations on Instagram, Facebook, Blur Creation Shop, no, Blur Creation Shop on Facebook, Blurred Creations on Instagram and TikTok. Um, and then of course, our podcast. You can follow us on uh Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, the Blurred Spectrum Podcast. I think we'll eventually end up on TikTok, but that's a lot of people. I don't, I don't, I don't, and y'all don't be trying to talk with the ticks. Uh y'all just be ticking with the talks because that's all the time you got in a day. Uh, Miss Kiddles, what were you about to say?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:27

It's 28%.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:28

What's 20%?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:31

It's 20. The Black History Month sales, 28%. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:35

Yeah, you know what's funny? I created that and I didn't even remember. So, yeah, Black History Month sale, 28% off of the items in our store. Um, but yeah, the Blurred Spectrum podcast um on all those platforms, or the Blur Spectrum mailbag, uh the Blur Spectrum uh at umbralstark.com. Send us a message if there's something, if there's a point that you want to uh uh make about this topic today, appreciation versus appropriation. Um, or if there's another topic that you want us to talk about in future episodes, feel free to send us a message in our mailbag or just DM us on all the platforms. Other than that, I don't believe there's anything else to say other than Sayonada.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:18

Bye. Bye. See ya.