SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast. We are returning to our topic from last week, Blurred's Court. You ready? Because Court is now back in session. Alright. So now we will uh move on to our next defense. So the uh incomparable Kaze Shinryu. What is your if you have one of course, what is your character that whom you are defending? All right.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Well, I I uh I did there was a little voice in my head uh last night that was like that told me I was like, you should uh you should you should go back and check or you should ask somebody what the fuck we talking about today. Oh lord. And I didn't. Uh but um, you know, amongst amongst listening to all the defenses, I have uh uh cobble cobbled uh together a little something something. So somebody who I think um deserves a better defense than what I got right now, but it's it's fine. It's fine. Uh uh my my my my defense is uh for none other than Mr. Sun Goku.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

I'm gonna go use the rest of your nod.

SPEAKER_06 1:27

Oh no, I was on mute. Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

See, and you know what's interesting before you before you showed up today, someone said that, oh see, we ain't I I would tear Goku apart, but we ain't got nobody on the opposition, so there's nothing, there's no point even talking about us. That's that's I'm saying I'm I'm saying before I would defend Goku and I knew you would, which is why I was waiting for you to show up. But uh I didn't think we were gonna do this today. I was like, oh he's gonna have somebody different, and we ain't gonna worry about Goku today. What else would we do? Oh boy on the Goku on the Goku episode, because it's a lot it is a lot, it is a lot.

SPEAKER_06 2:09

Uh all right, go ahead with your defense because I'm ready to oh man, Lord have mercy.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

I have returned, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

I guess the uh I'm putting myself on mute. I will watch dumpster himself, will be defended. I am prepared to listen receive, as I did with Suchi no Shogun is I'm sure he thought that I would not.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Uh so let's go. Oh man, oh man. Yep, I definitely should have written this down.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

But you are eloquent in your own right, please.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Oh my god, it's so much. Okay, so uh let's let's just start uh very uh very very very similar to uh some of what the uh uh you know uh you know but but black McCoy said for the for their own case, it's I I am not I am not here to say that this uh this character is beyond reproach. I am not I am not saying that um uh a lot of the things levied against them isn't you know true to some level or extent. I think I think my issue is is the uh is is is the is the level of this volatility and and and also I think some of the uh mis is a lot of misdirected um just like you know rage. Uh because a lot a lot a lot of this is just against the fandom. And Goku should not sit on the pyre that these real life niggas deserve to burn for. He simply does not. He didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I'm with you.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

He didn't do anything to to deserve that. But um uh, you know, I think as far as uh I you know, and I'll also start with uh uh uh uh Akira Toriyama is not the best writer. He is not that is not his that is not his strength, but I think uh and and not and not only is he not if you if you don't know what he's good for, Akira Toriyama had amazing manga panels. He like he like he like reinvented like like like motion and combat from in a panel to panel context when when it came to mo when it came to like uh manga and also his consistency. Like these niggas turn out uh turn out uh comics every week. And and and and and Akira Tanyama was shockingly consistent. Like Akira Tanyama is is your favorite manga uh creator's favorite manga creator. Uh like like they they learned they learned a lot of shit from him, and he's you know as big as he is for a reason. So uh so a lot of the things um so a lot so a lot of things get lost in translation when it comes to the the anime, which you know my me, you know, Kirsty Roman is not an animator, he's a he just he he made the manga. And and and and the and the fur and to further muddy that the uh again the localization. Like so that so like a lot and and and that's where I'll lay the uh the first batch of sins is that there are many, like many moments in the local in the American localization where uh where where they where it was it was a moment where they said something either very contextually Japanese uh or they made a joke that they thought wouldn't translate. So they would they would like make like Goku say something stupid. Like, you know, so like so Goku, you know, Goku's, he's very simple, and he is like multiple fandom. Uh and he is very, you know, and he is very uh straightforward and he does, but I think one of the most important things that people miss about Goku is that Goku does what works until it doesn't work, and then he learns from that. And and I think and I think what peop a lot of people miss is a lot of uh a lot of a lot of anime when when a character when when a character has growth, they have a side character or they have a narration come and tell you, oh man, yeah, 10 years ago, they would have did this. But after experiencing uh such and such and such and such, now oh man, they've come such a long way. Oh no, no, they do it, you know, it's it's it's spoon their growth is spoon-fed to you. So whereas like you literally have to just pay attention to the decision Goku makes from arc to arc to see what you know what he believes, you know, see his growth. And it's not it's not a huge change. He is the he is the same, he's the same person, but he's he's largely the same person because he is largely successful. What Goku does works, and when you and when you're doing what works, you don't have a reason to change. Uh especially, especially when you have the uh strength andor force of personality to make everyone around you change, which you know, which is the point. Also, uh a lot a lot of people um over um what's the word? Um it's weird. The coffee, the coffee's hitting me. I'm like wide awake, but the words they leave. All right, baby. They over like exaggerate uh uh how much like Goku uh like wants people to live at the at the expense of everyone else around him. So like so one if if you watch Dragon Ball, Goku had bodies. Uh Goku Goku had to come to a very specific uh moment in his growth where uh there was a moment there was a moment in Dragon Ball where uh somebody was taking a uh taking a farm hostage, and uh and the and the guy who in the hostage was like, hey nah, it's cool, take both of us out. And Goku was about to. Goku's about to smoke both of them. And and and as Goku is getting ready to body them, dude realized what's about to happen, and then he and then he reneges. He's like, Oh my god, I want to die.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

And I would like the record to show is that it's a record to show that uh councilman Black McCoy. Um, I do enjoy Dragon Ball, it's post-Dragon Ball that I do not have the fullest respect for, but continue.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Nope, most definitely. Um but but yeah, he begs for his life, and then Goku. That that's that's literally like Goku's in-life example. I was like, uh, because go Goku don't go like is you know, like you know, fighting is almost like wielding like a gun. Like Goku's ready to go. He bought he you like Goku Goku has killed people, and he knows when you fight, you might die. He go Goku is not super very strongly uh tied to the idea of living just to live. But but when that farmer begged for his life, he realized that everyone is not like that. And and these niggas very highly value uh their life. And then it can and since he cares about a lot of these people, then he values their life. And what the black mccoy just said, uh just brought up in as uh going back to Akira Toriyama and and the way he writes, he he writes, he he writes Z with the assumption that you not only watch but remember all of Dragon Ball. And so if you so if you're not taking those things into context, like you're missing a lot of uh of his arc. And and and and and and Toriyama does not do the best job of reminding you of much of anything. He just he just keep he he he has a is it's kind of it's kind of like real life, like you're not actually paying attention to what somebody's doing, uh, then you don't really know you know where uh where you at. Um it kind of reminds me the out of the black McCoy told me one day that the you know family that hasn't seen you in years comes back 15 years later and it treats you like the same person. And it's like they are you the same person?

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Uh one piece reminds you what happened.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

That they do and again, uh Oda for great memory, uh uh puts together a better plot, better, more consistent plot. Uh but but I'll say uh uh a toriyama's toriyama's uh editor uh had to come in and you know fix and force to do all kinds of things again, not uh not you know a super consistent narrative or plot, not not his strength. I get it. Um but um I'm trying to think. What are the about say like uh oh so uh I think another thing that's blown out of uh proportion is uh is is him like not caring about his family. Like that they are like and again, some of these things are not in the and not in the animation just cut out for some reason. Just just little just just just just little lines here and there that give good context to what niggas are thinking. Like they're they're just not there, so I don't completely blame everybody. But like but there but there are many times where you are in Goku's head or he's telling you why he is doing something, and it is literally, oh I gotta do this for Chi Chi, oh I gotta do this, like you know, for Gohan, like like you know, like even the even the initial time that he uh that he's that he spared Piccolo, it was it was because he uh he he re uh he realized and and and Kami was trying to keep this away from him, but but Goku put together that their lives were were tied to each other, and he and and and Kami's like one of his best friends. He didn't want Kami to die. So it's not you know, so it wasn't just like uh oh the old I'm gonna let this threat to the earth live. Um it's well I'm not gonna kill my best friend. Uh just just so I can just so just just so I can end this threat. Also, I beat this nigga's ass, and if he does it again, I'm gonna beat his ass again. Um but but no, but it but is is is it it it is Goku does but I say he he is he is definitely very like single-minded, straightforward, and does what he thinks works, but I don't I don't think he is nearly as uh uh selfish as people like make make him out to be, like, like when especially in uh regarding like uh uh Gohan. Like go Goku makes the makes the mis makes the uh kind of sort of mistake that many fathers make, and he sees Gohan as an extension of himself. And and like and like and like, oh, this is the this is the future, that's my son, that's my seed, he's just like he's just like me. And he doesn't, you know, and he doesn't like really realize that like this, like even though Goku grew up here, like Goku is still a Saiyan. He he he he thinks he thinks like a Saiyan that that is that that is very much how his mind works, is is he is a Saiyan who is infused with the empathy that that that uh grandpa Gohan taught him. Whereas Gohan is a chill little kid, he's a earth, he is an earthling with sand blood. Like so he so he trained so Goku knows what Gohan is capable of, but I think uh when good when he is pushing Gohan and could like like like Goku is a remarkable remarkably accurate like judge of character when it comes to potential and strength. He knows what Gohan can do. When Goku like uh uh realized he like he couldn't he couldn't really beat Sail, but he knew Gohan had the potential to he he was right. The the his his uh his mistake was was uh not not knowing uh the depths that Gohan would have to go to to be driven to achieve that power because he because things just went too far. And when and when and when shit got fucked up and he realized his mistake, Goku came in, teleported that nigga elsewhere and and and fixed and fixed the problem he best as best he could. Uh but and and also him him putting that on Gohan wasn't just uh him putting his son in danger. It was uh go Goku had a real had a realization before that that most most of the threats that came to Earth were there because of him. Like Raditz came because he was like, What the hell is my brother doing? This planet should be taken over already. But I say, and then and you know, and and then and then and then Vegeta, uh uh, then then they they they went off planet, pissed Frieza off. Frieza came then Dr. Jero, still mad from Dragon Ball, made made the adroids and sell. So Goku was like, yo, I I'm the only people who can fight these niggas. I can't do this forever. And and me being here is putting these niggas a day. So you know what? I you know, next next time I die, I'm gonna stay dead, and uh, and and the earth will be a lot safer. But again, that's that's him putting his his family in the earth and everything, uh, you know, ahead of him. So that's that's him thinking of the future, like he be Goku in in the best way he knew how was preparing, uh preparing the preparing others for the future and removing what he as far as he knew what it the potential threat. Um and also and and also and in another in another uh you know and I'm sorry if these arguments all over the place, but but you know, but another uh uh example of the uh uh because you know, because uh because Goku spares go well, I told you I told I told you why Goku spares Piccolo, but after he spares Piccolo, uh Piccolo becomes a valuable ally. And and uh and then when uh and then Goku attempted to spare Raditz, and Raditz took advantage of that. And and but but he but then Goku took responsibility for that and died and and died with Raditz. And then and then and then Vegeta came and uh and uh you know and he's and he spares Vegeta too. And I think and I think uh uh a thing that is kind of probably not made the most obvious or or is missed is that go go Goku is very uh like when when Raditz and Vegeta comes, they are trying to tell Goku who he is. And and go and Goku sparing them is Goku rejecting uh the their definition of him. They they like he is like you know, you I don't have to do the things, the things the way y'all do. The my you know, go grandfrha gohan raised me this way, and my way, you know, and my way is in my way is better. And and he's right, because Vegeta, grouchy as he is, uh comes a steady comes a steady.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

First of all, grouchy was sober. Accurate.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Uh oh, but like uh yeah, but both Piccolo and Vegeta become steadfast, steadfast allies, and and say, you know, and save the earth or more almost on multiple uh in multiple situations. And uh and and and uh and you know and in Frieza, like people people act like uh Goku gave Frieza uh a chance, but Goku didn't like leave. Like he he he he gave he he he told Frieza like hey this is your chance and Frieza didn't take it and he killed that nigga. It just so happened because of story that Frieza survived. It's not like Goku left this this threat, this, this uh threatened mega races out in the world. Like racism never goes away, right? To come back and get them. That was completely uh incidental. He he he fucking he he not only did he destroy that nigga, he left that nigga on an exploding planet.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

There was no reason to believe that he was and then his super went back and and to and got his racist.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Um and I and I and I don't even have uh the specific uh examples uh written down, but a lot of uh a lot a lot of the uh uh even though in in uh in super a lot of Goku's uh characterization is kind of backtracked because I guess they don't know where to go. And also, and that's that's true of a lot of sequels. Uh, you they they they re-walk you through a lot of the same issues just because they don't know they did they didn't have uh a timeline of growth set up for this person because they didn't know they didn't know how long this stuff would go. They was like, all right, here's my story, and the and the editors or the powers that be was like, nope, we want more, and now you gotta pull more shit out your ass. And that's and that and that is a situation that a lot of mangaka uh are are are often put in, and that's definitely true of of Goku. So like even though a lot of his personal characterization is kind of sent back in super, a lot of uh uh a lot of the uh attitudes and viewpoints of the villains of super are specifically there to uh like reflect uh former beliefs that Goku had. And uh and you know, and then that's kind of like they're kind of like the like you know uh uh shit. What was the uh oh yeah, it's like the the ghost of Ten Kaiichi's past. Coming to bite Goku in the ass. Uh and you know, so yeah, so like kind of read like like oh shit, yeah, I was I I did usually believe that oh like like oh yeah, yeah, that was pretty fucked up, but you know, we're better now. So um, and and and you know, and and and I and I'll finish up pretty soon, but just like the go back to an early thing I said, um uh I know the fans are annoying. I uh I know I know they they I know they I know they want Goku to beat up your favorite your favorite protagonist. Uh I know they put their opinion where it doesn't belong. Uh but but put your put your anger where it belongs. Goku, Goku ain't do it, go ain't do nothing. Not not the deserve artists. Don't get don't get like either give them personally the the the energy back or or or don't or don't even don't even give them that that that box don't don't reply to them, just ignore them, just just just go on like like don't cook a bit, like yeah, okay, yeah, sure, whatever, maybe or you just what okay, yeah. They them niggas them niggas don't know don't don't know how to have debate a real a real fight anyway.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

All they watch is like bad shonen anyway. Don't know yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

They don't they don't know how any of these things work. They never fought a day in their life, they don't know how they don't know physics. They they they barely they barely have a grasp of how they work, uh much much much less like doing a character study or or doing a full battle of someone else. They they they the is it is pure like misplaced excitement. They you know they they they they enjoy they do, they showed in terrible ways. It is not Goku's fault. Um yeah, that's most of what I have, which y'all got.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

All right. So before y'all jump into it, I want to remind you that Rod, uh sorry, the doctor still has to give his defense as well of his uh his character, and we are running uh very low on time. So I want to make sure that we uh we go through all of these points as concise and as accurate as possible. Uh, not to I'm not trying to shorten anybody's time. I know everybody has a lot to say, but I didn't expect each and every one of every single person's defense as well as objection to go this long. So I just wanted to interject that in there. The doctor go before me. I well, the doctor specifically requested to go last, so that's what I was trying to stay, uh stay a part to. So that's the main reason why I did that. Plus, I didn't know you were gonna do Goku. Um uh, yes, so I'll go ahead and uh let the black McCoy go first uh to let him know that Miss Skittles is going after you, and I know you want to let Miss Skittles talk, so yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I surprisingly have no objections. Wow. Say anything. No, I know. No, I mean I know Goku's an idiot, but you know, um, I have never I have never uh hated Goku as much as I hate the fandom specifically. Um and even the likes of the fandom have like sprinkles of Kazan, like maybe one other person I know who I who I can trust with uh with content such as this. And um, yeah, I don't think Goku's the the greatest protagonist ever. Um I think peak Goku for me was Dragon Ball, and it just kind of went on the steady decline from there. As you said, Toriyama's not the greatest writer, um, and it shows uh after Dragon Ball specifically. And you know, I was I'll give it some leeway, like a part, maybe a partial stint through Dragon Ball Z. But uh yeah. Um, I I I don't disagree. Uh and uh my criticisms of Goku as a character are still are still are what they are, they are not as critical as they are of the of the fandom itself. And uh yeah, I uh thank you.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Uh the doctor, do you have? I will let Miss Kittles go last. Um, the doctor, do you have a uh uh opposition to what uh Kazai said?

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Uh no, you know, I'll definitely keep it brief, but yeah, overall I kind of agree that I do so I do have gripes with Goku, but I have more gripes with the fandom. So I think that's a really salient point. So yeah, no objections.

unknown 27:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Uh I myself uh am a part of that Tenkaichi Budokai uh uh era of people who played uh Dragon Ball Z. Uh and uh speak game for me. My issues with Goku are I as I've said on previous episodes, I don't like poster children. And but the thing about poster children is they're only lifted up by the fandom that is behind them. And it's it's the he can do no wrong of the fandom that made it an issue for me, uh, as well as the you know, he's your favorite character's favorite character bullshit. Um, also, real quick, the point you made about, you know, him coming to the planet and him, you know, kind of rejecting his uh roots is kind of similar, obviously similar to you know, Kalel when um, you know, uh uh uh um why I almost said Lord Zed. Sorry. Uh, but when Zed came to Earth and uh of course, you know, did virtually the exact same thing. Um, but I I will say was irresistible. The biggest gripe I have after hearing your defense is the fact that Goku, although decided that it was, you know, in the Earth's best interest to just leave, um, it was also the stupidest decision because just because he left, it didn't mean that those who were not smart enough to verify if he was still there weren't gonna still come to Earth looking for him or who they were told is the strongest person in the galaxy, the universe, etc. So um his absence did put the earth in peril still. But of course, again, it's not technically his fault, but it was uh kind of that same um, I don't need I I don't need to let everybody in on my plan type of decision. Uh but that was my league right. Uh Miss Kittles.

SPEAKER_06 29:38

Um I had I had all this stuff planned and uh good thing uh because I because I had a good defense for his boy or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

You know what's disrespectful, you don't wear it or whatever so I I neither uh agree or disagree with the defense.

SPEAKER_06 30:15

I don't know if that's a thing. I abstained there it is I abstained from um all of the previous comments that I was going to make. And um I I'm not I'm not gonna say that like the defense is solid. It is uh the fandom. Um I'm gonna agree with everybody else that the fandom is definitely a problem. Like the people who support the fans are a problem. Uh the the comments about, you know, him being a father.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 30:53

Yeah, it's still valid. Um your boy I'm so I didn't even watch all of Super, but from what I I mean, I feel like Goku was already like like you to put it nicely, simple. Um but I feel like and like like we said, um your boy is not the the greatest writer considering all of the characters are named after fruits and vegetables and objects.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Oh my god. Uh that is very popular in Japanese culture. They love those fruits and veggies make that bad money.

SPEAKER_06 31:39

These are yeah, I mean, yeah, we Naruto, perfect example. Literally like a little fish thing in the butt that's neither here nor there. Um yeah, so we can blame it on the writing. Absolutely. We can do that because you just got this character to send the earth to destroy the earth and got uh I don't know, brain damage and and just and just carry that brain damage throughout his existence in the universe then the Dragon Ball universe and um I am internally screening.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

I hear you want to give No, so I am staying. Okay, so we will we will circle back to this on the Dragon Ball Z episode. Okay, quick quick response to what y'all said.

SPEAKER_06 32:37

Oh there's a rebuttal.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

The doctor still has to go, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Uh oh, okay, so just uh that that was what's something I meant to touch on, but again, we we didn't get a lot of sleep today. But you know, a touch on the uh the the the father thing. Uh so so so go so Goku up until the top of Z is at home uh being a dad and that well another detail that was left out, Goku worked, Goku did Goku Goku did uh work on farms and and sold that massive infinite supply of meat he has access to two people that uh aside aside from a stipend that uh the ox king gave them, that is that is where their money came from. So Goku Goku worked, and until someone came to kill them, he spent time with his wife and son, and after and after they came, uh after they came to kill him, they they did they did. Goku was was was dead. And then he comes back, saves his son. Uh, you know, uh is with with with with his child most of the Nebakia saga uh come, you know, comes uh comes back to Earth uh a bit late after doing, you know, doing doing some training. Uh gets get started on get started on the next son. Uh Goku is dead when the next son is alive. So a lot a lot of these uh I I don't I think a lot of the stuff levied at Goku about being a bad father, you could also levy at niggas who are in the army and are at home. Um I'm not no no no no once a year, twice a year, once every five years. Only uh only only uh that you know one one party is literally saving earth slash existence, and the other ones are serving the patriarchy, but um the commons are support blurred spectrum podcasts, blurred creations, misskittles, the black mcpoy, the doctor, or sayone cosplay and all. I'm I'm I'm just I'm just saying keep it even, like we said earlier. Uh that's an anime.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Um, but okay, so the doctor, uh, I'm sorry, Sayone, but I want to make sure we we finish all the points. Is that okay with you?

SPEAKER_05 35:23

Yes, that's all please. I'm I'm I'm thoroughly entertained. Please continue.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Okay. Uh the doctor, your uh entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

All right, so for mine, and I guess mine would be different because I'm the only one doing a video game character. Oh, and this is an example of a video game character. Like, I think they're perfect for this topic because they get a certain amount of hate from the community, but it's so far removed from the reality of this character that like it's just the hate is really egregious. So we're gonna talk about Bulbasaur. Jesus Christ. Bulbasaur and by extension, Vosaur. Um and I will say, this is not like a starter war thing. This is not so you can like any starter you want, you can do well with any starter you want. Every starter has a place in a team. But there is this idea, and I'm specifically talking about the games. It comes up over and over about you know, people I see on social media all the time. Like, oh, you know, Bolivator doesn't win, or Volvatore loses, or oh yeah, Bulbasaur, like, you know, it is no, like that's not like a good fact. Yeah, it's like one of the lowest win rates I've seen that, like Volvasore, like, oh, you don't think we're gonna win? And it is so glaringly untrue. It it just relies on such extreme either ignorance andor lies. And I'll sort of talk about some of his strengths in the game. So everyone knows about this in terms of gym advantage, you know, and gym advantage, that's a big thing. Volvosaur wins against like six of the eight gems.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Only two gems that he loses against fire and psychic are near the very end. And that's at a point where your starter doesn't even matter that much because you have a team. But there's this huge advantage, especially in the early game where like it's a comical stop, you know, like beating Onyx at level seven because you have leap speed and it makes it impossible to lose. Um, but also there's so much more in Gen 1, and just talking about single player, that it is designed for pulpasaur to win. Pulpasaur like excels in so many ways. So first of all, he has very little counterplay. And this is mostly because there are almost no fire and ice types in the game. And all the ice types are also water types, which are weak to grasp.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Um, there are damn near no good bug type moves, just straight up. Leech Life is half the power of like the tap leech. Pin missile, perfect. Rolled by Jolteon and B-drill. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

I'm not gonna lie, pinky was a normal type move. So it was bug back then. What was that? I thought a pin missile was a normal type move.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

So it's bug, it's just almost absent from anyone you fight because virtually no one has a jolteon and you don't fight too many beat rolls. So but also a lot of them, so flying type moves were super limited too. So like dust, which is a flying type move now, was normal back then.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yep. So almost no power play. But but also, you know, every and this isn't true for every Pokemon generation, water and caves, by far the most common landscape you see in every game. Lots of water types in water, lots of rock and ground types in caves. So that's a huge advantage, too. But also, so Razor Leaf. This is a move gets around level 30. Back then, because of the way crits were, because General had a broken system, Razor Leaf was essentially a guaranteed crit off of a 55 power move, which for perspective means that it did about the same power as like a hydro pump or a fire blast almost, but it ignored defenses completely because crits ignore enemy defense. Um, and it gets us around at level 30, which compare that to like I think Charlie gets flamethrower in the 40s and Blastoise gets hydro pumped around 50. So huge match early on. Leech deed intoxic, a game-breaking glitch that means that you can essentially heal up your entire health that scales up over time. So you're stealing more health every turn. Um, the special stat, which was global to its highest stat, counted for defense and attack, which meant that if Boromster really had the highest special defense and special attack, which gave him a higher base stat total, but also made some of his other moves broken, like how he learns growth, which growth, you know, is not as good now, but back then it was essentially a calm mind, plus special attack, plus special defense. Anyone who knows Pokemon knows calm mind is a damn good move. Like, I mean very good. Sleep completely broken as a mechanic. It is so broken that there are medics, the most common Pokemon med game, Smogon, has a rule in place to limit its usage. And sleep is the most broken form of sleep where it would knock you out so you couldn't wake up or you couldn't act. But then on the term you woke up, you also couldn't act. You could permanently sleep a lot of people. And Venusaur is the one who gets sleep powder. Um, and so these are just things that are really easy to come across in single player play. You know, I don't know some of us sometimes value a Pokemon's value for their competitive play. Um, Venusaur has one of the best competitive records overall of any starter, like has said competitive play at almost every single generation. That is not something that's easy to meet otherwise. And so I say all this to say that like there is so much evidence, even just counting single player Gen 1, that shows bonus are as strong as shit. So, and it's not something that you have to have a huge amount of knowledge of the game to experience. You just need to play with it, like one good playthrough. You'll see so much of this. But I think this highlights this huge issue that I mentioned before on a podcast about cloud chasing, you know, and the idea of hate towards cloud chasing. Um, this is also why, you know, I don't like Star Wars. I think they become degenerate really quickly. And I think this is a thing that gamers do in general, piling hate on a character, not actually because they really think they're bad, but because it's a popular thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. And then they then they pretend like, oh, well, it's because this character is bad. But I promise you, if you reflect on a lot of characters, if you'll really see that and why you dislike or like talk shit about those characters, most of it does not have to do with how good or bad they are in their game at all. It has to do with a shit ton of clout chasing. And that can be talk shit on social media, it can be like excluding, you know, Venusaur or Borbasaur from like the conversation around the starters, which happens a lot. And it's so egregious in this case because by any objective measure, like Bulbasaur is a strong pick, like very strong. But I mean, it doesn't take much to see that. And so just to conclude, um, you know, I would say again, you can love any starter, you can succeed with any starter, and you can build a team around any starter. Every starter has a place. But if you're someone who's saying that Bulbasaur is somehow a weak pick, um, I just want to clarify that, you know, not only is Bulbasaur easily the one that just stops generation one, and Venusaur has one of the most consistent competitive records of any starter, a solid like top five, I'd say, of all the starters. Um, if you're still saying that it's somehow a weak pick, or oh, you don't pick him if you win, um, you either have no idea what you're talking about, you're lying, or you're lying either because you want to cover for one of your own faves, or you just want a little social media clout. No exceptions.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Gee, I don't even think I should ask anybody, but I know I have to.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

And I mean, as black cloud players, we know a lot about hating for clout. We do.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Um, so uh before I go to everybody else, I'm gonna say I have always been a bulbasaur, Venusaur stand or Ivysaur Venusaur stand. And uh by far, not I I always, if I have the opportunity to pick uh uh bulbasaur as a starter, I always do. And it's one thing I'll say like, I don't know if anybody has watched uh the anime that just came out, which is the uh strongest mage who gets reincarnated to get the you know the best crest or something of the nature. The strongest sage with the weakest crest. Thank you. Uh and in the anime, uh, real quick with the premise is you know, he you know gets reincarnated a thousand years later, and demons have taken over and have convinced humanity that the things that are strongest with magic are now the weakest things, and the things that are weakest with magic are the strongest. So it's almost not almost, it's a re-education of the system to make people believe that what should be the thing ahead of time is now the thing behind time. So when they take over, all of humanity can't defend itself because they think these things are the strongest things, are not. So going back to Bulbasaur and Venusaur. You learned the word from the anime.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

So uh going back to the anime.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

So both with Bulbasaur and Venusaur, I also feel like it's a uh the concept of individuals who are trying to quote unquote re-educate individuals into believing that Bulbasaur, uh Bulbasaur's line is not as strong as their favorites, as you said, or not as strong as any of the other starters when it's glaringly obvious that they are. Like even when you played uh even when you used Venusaur on um uh what's it called on uh Pokemon Stadium back in the day, not even talking about the original Game Boy games, but in Pokemon Stadium, like compared to its opposition starter-wise, it had the more stacked uh uh registered uh moves. It had solar beam, poison powder, uh takedown, and I can't remember the fourth move. It was probably um something to restore. I remember it was Razor Leaf.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

That's what made it busted. Yes. So it's like even with those four moves, and you're talking about Spinosaur, which is a tank that can take uh a shit ton of damage, regardless of what attacks are going against. Even when it's taking like uh once I think with uh Pokemon Stadium, they had uh, I know they had Razor Wind, but that was a normal move back then. They had Fly, they had Sky Attack, you know, moves like that. By the time they could get those moves off, Venusaur has already poisoned them or damaged them, and it can eat at least one of those moves. There's very few moves that can take Venusaur down in one shot, unless somebody's powered by some type of item or something of that nature. So uh I don't see how anybody can say that Venusaur, uh, but uh you're right. It is a common node with a lot of people, you know. You see it in memes. Same thing with Asuka, but you see and Sakura. You see it in memes where people always are downing, Bieber, uh Balbasaur among the starters in Pokemon. So uh I I definitely uh agree with uh the doctor's uh again, the subject matter expert, uh the doctor's analysis.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

So I will uh I will throw it to uh uh uh Kaze.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

Um yeah, I've always thought I've always found this uh discussion really, really, really um uh funny and interesting. Uh I I know I know me me personally, I was uh, you know, char, you know, I love I love you know I love dragons. So I saw them. I saw you you luck you lucky we ran out of time. I don't need to write that on the fence. Oh no. But uh, but you know, uh, you know, I love you know love love love dragons uh all day. So I started, you know, I started Charmander, um, had a uh had a had a great time. Those uh those those the those uh those first two gems uh built me up, taught me some things, taught me how to grind, taught me to respect these uh these elemental weaknesses. They they mattered, that was not just lip service, but uh but yeah, started started Charmander's second playthrough, went went squirtle because it's a turtle fucking guns coming out of the shell. And then I you know and then all first things they're canons, you right. Respect the scale, respect the scale. Uh and then I was like, all right, well, gotta gotta try all of them, and and tried the uh tried the root vegetable, and and I and then and it was like, oh wait, no, vegetable this this nigga this this this this this this nigga goes in. Also, also uh I I thought I thought bubble saw an anime is very endearing. Uh and that definitely that definitely like helped out my initial uh here for Ash or any of his bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Like you nigga, you gonna you want me to ride with you? You have to all right.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Very straightforward.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Uh nobody just coming up with you and your little punk ass crew.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

But uh, but no, definitely, but you know bubble zone definitely uh show it, show, show it the fuck out.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Definitely, definitely only Pokemon in the entire series that like literally fought off evolution, like visibly, like they showed the nigga glowing and he fought off evolution. Like, come on now. I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Now, my boy, if this is that reminds me of a few people, but but um but no, I think one of the I think one of the things is um I a lot of uh uh a lot of uh a lot of the examples of like uh of like power across any all like fact fiction type uh media, I think uh I think the the core like alchemic elements get a lot of the attention. So fire, air, earth and water. And when people when people think earth, even though that is kind of all encompassing, they they're they they think rocks. So so there's a lot less um representation uh when you start when you start literally uh thinking about like plants and stuff. So like so unless you've like, unless you're just automatically in into that, or you just have a good imagination. I I can I can get why like initially people you know see a plant and it's like okay, well what you know, what the fuck are you about to do? Because they've probably never seen someone's, you know, like honestly, the like super early on, the only like powerful, like plant power person I could think of is like poison ivy. And maybe it swamp thing hadn't even made a comeback yet, he he still sucked. Um but um but so I think I think that general like uh uh you know representation uh kind of plays like a small part into just uh you know like like oh okay what is what is this what is this like uh plant plant gonna do and and I think the uh the um an another another small reason was uh uh for uh some people is like maybe running into uh running into their friends like Alakazam and forgetting that Bobazor is poison and that thing could get like getting grass poison realness and you get caught real like you like like you learn from you learn earlier from the geo dude that you do not leave Charizard there. That's he about to kill somebody, but then flames are hot, but they ain't that hot, but you know you but they play they they play their Alexa, okay. Yeah, yeah, my means source will take a hit. He's like, oh okay. He did not dual typing to get you together real quick, you know, especially since most people probably did not know how to uh build their person to to do anything or take a hit or knew how to game work, which honestly you weren't supposed to die, but game work, honestly. Those were kind of behind the scene uh mechanics. Uh also I think an another another thing uh is uh, and this is an RPG thing across the board, is the lack of appreciation and understanding of status effects. And not only uh status effects but buffs because the game in uh in a front-ended manner um kind of uh uh kind of shows you that you know, just like doing your front your front-ended damage is better. Like some like some of the some of those fights that you should lose, you will win because the computer like starts growling or leering too much. So and and so I think inherently across the board, a lot of people see stuff stuff like oh, sleep powder, stun sport, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna kill you two hits. Why am I why am I wasting a turn doing this? And they don't like they don't really get where uh you know uh in specific situations early game or or later in the game where it's uh a little bit more important, or where you're playing your friends where it's super important and relevant, they just they just don't and they just don't engage with it because that again that's a that's a that's a thing across the board. And and especially if you played RPGs before that, uh most games mishandle those. And uh you know, you put you do it, you you do sleep, you miss, you die. And and you never cast sleep in another game again. So like that's that is like a uh a serious issue. And like or or the or the stats like uh or the or the math behind like a buff, like sword dance uh doubles your attack. So it's so it's like if you're gonna kill somebody in two hits and that's the last person they have, then swords dance, you don't need the swords dance. You can just hit you can just hit them twice. Uh but and but it but the but the math changes if it goes into any hits past that. Now now now you're making bang for your buck because you you're doing double power for multiple turns past the second one. But that's that's that's a lot, especially for game pointed children. A lot of people don't don't don't understand that. And even even the uh even the uh rate the uh raiser leaf thing, like if you're if you're just like you know, if you're raising like all your all your Pokemon and you're you know, you're looking at you're looking at your you're looking at your personal examples in front of you, and you're looking at the power on these moves. So unless you're like literally like and keep in mind, like if you're like if you're like static correctly, mostly your strongest elemental attack is gonna one-shot somebody who has a weakness. So you don't even know how much raise the leaf would or would not have been uh over like overperforming, but you but you know you're looking at that 60 something, and then you see a 120 off this TL. And that's and I think that's just a natural uh thing to sue. Like you like, you literally have to start taking examples and doing you know, and doing math like to to see like you know that and you know, and again, this is mostly coming from the uh a random casual child's uh you know view of like what's happening on screen, which I think is most Pokemon uh players. So I can uh so I can understand them not knowing how amazing, uh like Stomp or Razor Leaf or uh or how the the sleep mechanic. I I didn't know how I was because I know first time I slept someone, they they they they they they they they they they they woke up. No, no, I think I think a trainer used a full hill and I was like, well, that was a waste of fucking time. And then and then I noticed later they would sleep for five turns. Oh no, I'm sorry. I noticed I would sleep for five turns and I was like, oh that's how this works. So, but you know, if that's not your experience, I could, you know, I can't say. But yeah, I think those are some of the uh different things that kind of get get in uh uh Bobby, Boby Boy's way.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

You know, and it's it's really it's a really good point with some of the, I guess, higher skill level stuff of understanding the mechanics of crits and sleep. But I guess what makes it so egregious to me is at its most basic. I know one chat should have raised belief early on enough. You know, I know that like you can kind of think repeatedly that, oh, this one, this one was really, really easy, and the second one was really easy, and the third one, and the fourth one, like those things are like if you take away all the high-level strengths, it's just just so glaring, like it's so egregious, you know. And you know, it's I think that's that's part of why, you know, you never just in addition to just general cultural stuff around gaming culture and cloud formation and all that, like it's it's gotta be mostly cloud. Like it has to be. There's there's too much, there's too many people who have never played through a playthrough, you know, with this character who are talking a lot of shit, you know, just way too many.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

That's the real quick. Going into the numbers of Razor Leaf is assuming they played a bovasaur and raised one. You know, for all they know, they they fire blasted one one day and it died. And that and they I was like, yep, I knew he was a piece of shit. It's such a wild Pokemon in on a weakness or something faster than them. It's the Pokemon's fault. Never mind, they taught me switching.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Miss Skittles, did you have a opposition to the doctor's point?

SPEAKER_06 57:11

So I do I do not have an opposition. In fact, um I'm um I'm a little upset and surprised. Uh I haven't, granted, I haven't been like heavy into Pokemon in years. Um and I just I just I don't like I'm appalled that people are going so hard against Bogus. Like, what? Like I mean, yes, uh, much like Kaze, like I definitely started with um with you know the fire baby, you know. I can't uh but um even back then, like I just the thought never occurred to me that people would go so hard against against Bobasaur. Like you fucking feel like oh man, but you know, people don't they they don't be fucking with plants. And and I I definitely feel I definitely feel like a lot of people, like Jose was saying, a lot of people gravitate more towards, you know, like in their head, what what elemental powers that you know you just feel like it's just like off jump, like they they what go tier, I guess. Yeah, yeah, fire, air, earth, you know, all of that. Um I just feel like I feel like if if I don't understand why people are first of all, this is this is a Pokemon, first of all. Like why why are we in here going so hard over over trained uh fake animals?

SPEAKER_02 58:54

Like you know, you know the community where people have argued over less.

SPEAKER_06 59:03

You're absolutely right. I've I I gave the people too much credit. Um even then it's still I gave them too much credit, but it just it's just wild to me that that somebody, you know, they're out here taking like like I can't even imagine how the conversation would go. Like the fuck the fuck you came in here with a like you on the team, y'all teens, and and somebody pulled out a bobazar and you was like, get this nigga out of here. Like I'm trying to figure out like how this how this goes down and man. Wow. Um yeah, no, um, no, it's it's it's while I'm sitting here like shocked and but it's it's um I shouldn't be because like I I've seen people go hard over like Smash Brothers characters. Like it's literally the Smash community is toxic as fuck. But um we're not talking about Smash. So um yeah I have I have no objections. Um I'm I'm so sorry that my little plant baby going through these things, right? Like um plants plants are life, okay? They they provide oxygen, okay? Yep, and and not to mention all of the amazing things that was just talked about.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

So that's why um the black McCoy, did you have anything?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

Any opposition? Uh no, you know, I stand a water turtle, but um I don't know I I also like I genuinely did not know people hated bulbasaur as much as they did until like I aged up uh and like was like, oh y'all were hating on this grass frog? Why? Grass frog anything, like out of all the three starters. I initially thought Venusaur was the most terrifying because I don't for some reason it was very unsettling to me. Just like the design. Right, just like prehistoric animal with a forest on his back.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

That point on his back is is has a lot of stay away, yeah. Something that will kill you.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

Okay, there's nothing about like Venusaur that made me be like, you know what? That's a bitch right there. Like, that's bitch major. Okay, like every iteration. It was like less intimidating because I'm like, okay, this is a big turtle with some cannons on his back, but no, Venusaur looks like it would eat me. Or poison me or or drag me into the tree on his back. Because like, even back, I didn't know Venusaur. I remember when I found out in my adult life that Venusaur was like, or like that the evolutionary was uh grass poison. I was like, When'd you get poison?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

Yeah, it was funny. It was it was funny because I was just I was just I was just about to bring up how really good uh venue source uh types was because poison's weak to ground, but grass resists ground, and then I was gonna bring up uh about how uh poison uh resists bug, but I just checked the site and gen one poison was weak to bug. I did know he had a four times weakness generation was so that but but but so but but moving on the the that after they did because they literally they literally switched from from a weakness to a resistance. My yeah, my man went from having a four times to uh to uh to to like having two to two aggressive uh two to aggressive uh I mean aggressive uh resist uh losing the weakness and poison losing the weakness. And that's just like that was just really nice help helping him be the defensive uh powerhouse that he came to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

And with the four times weakness, one of the main reasons why that didn't matter at all was because both my boots were so terrible and like atrocious.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:53

I don't know, Fury Cutter.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

It was a fury cutter normal back then. Yeah, that was beginning.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

Yeah, it was literally just leech life, pin missile, and twin needle, which was the idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

Yeah, they gave it to the bees. Hilarious. Uh and then uh the jury, Sayone, to wrap up.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:14

I have no objections. I I too had no idea that Bulbazore um was getting so much hate. Um, but it all goes back to, like I was saying before, the artistic design. Um, you know, when I first saw Bulbazore, um, you know, it was cute, cute plant, you know, non-threatening to me. Um, but uh Venusaur looks fucking terrifying, looks like it's gonna eat me alive. So I actually had no idea that that was uh Jumanji. Yeah, I was actually gonna go, I was actually about to go to Jumanji too. Uh I was actually, that was my point. I mean, if if anyone has ever seen Jumanji, there was this beautiful plant that was shot homes all in the neck, yeah. And as beautiful as that motherfucker was, that shit was fucking deadly, and then it was starting to wrap its little tentacles, little veiny tentacles.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Mary Jane killed the down.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:07

Yeah, that was probably one of the most scariest things. It's not Mary Jane. But it was terrifying because you know, you're taking something that we, you know, we we we look at flowers all the time. We never think of something that was so would be so beautiful, would be so deadly. I think maybe the most um I would say intriguing thing about. I mean, I think um uh bulbazore and reminded me of like the Venus flytrap, uh just kind of growing up my first time kind of seeing something that was so beautiful, but it was carnivorous and deadly at the same time. So I was very intrigued by it. I love the dichotomy of both. Um, so I actually had no idea, but again, everyone loves to go for that cool, um, that heavy hitter look. The why so many people went to uh went to Pikachu. I actually never was a Pikachu lover. Um, so I never really understood the clout with Pikachu, to be honest. But I mean, there's plenty of other characters um that people would see non-threatening, like Jigglypa, and um, you know, but Jigglypuff was fucking cute. Or uh Toke, Tokei, that little little shells looking thing. Right. So um, but of all characters, I never thought that you know Bulbazore was was getting all that that crap. Yeah, I had no idea. Maybe I must be in a Pokemon community, which I'm not it. So I had no, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

You don't want to be, it'd be wild enough.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:35

Nah, nah, I see what. But yeah, so I um I agree uh wholeheartedly with uh the doctor. Um I have I have no objections.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Awesome sauce. Uh, were there any other points, the doctor, that you wanted to make regarding Bulbasaur? No. All right, well, ladies and gentlemen, that has been our uh uh our litigation proceedings uh for today. Uh we Plan on having many more of these, maybe probably have a couple less, because uh uh I didn't think we was gonna go so deep into certain ones and then you know just cruise past other ones. Um, I do feel like this is going to give us a couple of uh we're we're never gonna have a hunter X Hunter and a Dragon Ball episode, I'm sure of it once y'all hear this episode. Uh so are we yes, it's actually on the agenda already.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

So okay, okay. For the second one, you said what? The second one? We have a second ball episode plan.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:31

It's gonna have guests.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

Yes, that's why uh people that we pick or people that are gonna ask to be on.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:39

But anyway, don't call the DVC episode or bring on haters.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

No, no, no, no. We have to bring people who can defend it. Uh 100%. We got enough haters already. We got at least one person who can. So, anywho, thank you for listening to this episode. Thank you for uh giving us the opportunity to, you know, uh uh give you some things off of our chest. Uh uh uh so feel free to respond on all of our social media platforms, of course, where the other we are the Blurred Spectrum uh uh podcast. And you can find us at Blurred Spectrum on uh Instagram and Facebook, the Blurred Spectrum on Twitter, uh, or and I'm sure you will if you have uh any responses to any of our panelists' uh uh defenses, if you feel like you can uh give some objections that make more sense and we can talk about it on live. Uh send a uh message to our mailbag, which is the blurred spectrum at umbralstarcave.com. And now I'll give an opportunity for all of our panelists to tell how or explain how they can be reached, starting with the doctor. Right on to you on Facebook, Jazinryu3B on the ground.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:46

The black McCoy. You can find me at the black mcoy on Instagram. You can also find me at the black mcoy uh cosplay on Facebook, as well as not black by choice on Instagram and not black by choice on Facebook. We are having a 15% off sale on all of our merch this month for uh Black History Month. So go and check us out.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:12

And Sione period cosplays at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:17

Ms. Skittles.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:19

Ms. Skittles, T R underscore cosplay on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

And then of course you can find me Suchi underscore no underscore shogun on IG. Uh, first off, I want to make sure we thank everyone who bought the stickers for Miss Skittles in the month of January.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:37

Oh, she was lit.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:39

She definitely got her representation out there, so that was dope. Uh, of course, we're now moving into February, which is, as I said, at the top of the uh episode, Aquarian season, uh represented by uh our panelists, uh the Black McCoy and Joe Tsg. Uh so of course, uh Blur Creations, you can find us at Blur Creations on Instagram and uh uh Twitter and Facebook or Facebook is Blur Creations Shop. Uh on there, we have the Black McCoy's uh special edition birthday cosplay, which is coming out this week, I believe on uh so be excited for that, as well as their 10 favorite things. Uh, they have discounted those items, I think 15% off uh those 10 items. Uh so check those out. Uh also please, please, please be prepared. Oh, wait, wait, no, the uh uh the black also has a giveaway contest uh for their fans uh where they are giving away a special birthday canvas. Uh so uh look uh follow both A Blurred Creations and the Black McCoy to get the details on that. And then lastly, uh coming up in March, we're gonna have the villains collection where each of our panelists are gonna you know give something special. So yeah, yeah, I should be excited for that. Uh um, but lastly, but certainly not least, I have to say bye bye, Sayonata. We out. Oh my god. Mind your business, Goku didn't do anything to you.