SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast. This time we are here with our cast of amazing, phenomenal, skilled, and gifted cosplayers, as well as a doctor and a moderator, here today to go ahead and talk about something not necessarily serious, but something that we've observed and something that we viewed over the last few years, specifically during the pandemic. One of the things that we've talked about in previous episodes is the fact that, you know, with conventions having to be canceled due to COVID and cosplayers not being able to be at certain events, one of the big things they had to do was, you know, on a higher note, utilize social media. Now it's not like they weren't using it before, but it became even more permanent. And we saw more people who had maybe had never decided to use social media become completely enthralled. And it became their uh a daily, um, a daily use for them to showcase their skills, showcase their capabilities, and showcase their cosplay. Uh, but that's not necessarily what this episode's about. This episode specifically is about cosplay's downfall in social media. Uh, what are those things that we have seen that have you know showcased cosplay in a different light and not necessarily the most positive of hues? Uh so I'm gonna first, of course, introduce our cast of panelists today, uh including myself, the uh moderator or partial moderator, uh Suchino Shogun. I'm also going to introduce the Doctor, the uh Black McCoy, bonjour everyone, Sayone Kaspa, and Ms. Skittles.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Oh whoa.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

So I'm not even gonna try to ask a question about this. I think it's better for each of us to, you know, first start off of giving our general view on this topic. Um, because uh, you know, honestly, I don't uh I know what I see and I know what I know, but I'm not cosplayer. So there's definitely a uh a difference in what I view versus what um a cosplayer would view and how they would understand it. So do any of our cosplayers want to kind of take the rings uh and uh give their standpoint on what they feel like cosplay's current stance is in social media?

SPEAKER_06 2:21

So I have so many thoughts. This is what I was hoping. I mean, I don't mind going first. Um so with cosplay um in social media, let me let me start out by saying disclaimer. I fully support and believe that every cosplayer should cosplay how they want, like any way you want to. Um and if there is negative uh feedback or connotation, um, I just feel like regardless, you should do it your way. Period. Um there people are gonna feel away, they're gonna, you know, everybody has their own personal opinions of what they feel cosplay means to them and and how and how you know you execute it is is really up to you. Um and really nobody else has a say. Um, and I'm saying that disclaimer because what I feel um is not necessarily the views of everyone in the community, and and there are members of our panel who may not even agree with me here today, but these are my personal opinions about cosplay and how social media has affected it. So with that being said, um I feel like social media is destroying Cosplay. Um I feel like it has um it has opened up this uh Pandora's box for any and everything is acceptable under that definition costume play. Um whether whether or not you put in hours um to actually physically create something from scratch or you bought it off the internet and um like tinkered with it or just you know tried to do something new or not do something new. Um but when social when the pandemic hit and social media um became you know our only outlet for being a cosplayer, I felt like at that point people people some people got really creative. I will say that. Some people got really creative and they and they you know did things and we have you know TikToks and transitions and it just showed us a whole um another side of how how to how to incorporate um entertainment and cosplay uh into you know this cute little packaged uh content creation bubble. Um however, then it created uh to me it created uh a lane where you can do any and everything and it would still be considered cosplay. Um and I think the one the one that irritates me the most that I'm going to bring up as a graphic artist and designer is Photoshop and cosplay. Um for me, there's one thing to to uh edit your photos and and enhance your cosplay um by photoshopping or editing things that you otherwise couldn't make. Or and I know everybody can't make everything, uh everybody can't afford to buy every prop or whatever, or um it's it's humanly impossible to actually throw a five off from here. However, like I said, we're still holding on. Right. It's one thing to enhance your cosplay with edits, and there's another thing to completely be cosplaying via Photoshop. Um, when you when you started getting into body modification and um um just throwing on a t-shirt and and the rest of the entire cosplay is photoshopped. Um in my personal opinion, that's not cosplay. Um at that point, you're you're a graphic artist, you are not a cosplayer. Um and that is my personal opinion of that.

SPEAKER_08 7:07

I remember one time I like said something about it on live, and someone was like, nigga, we broke. I'm like, okay, uh, no one said cosplay one had to be expensive. Uh two, I didn't. I mean, I'm glad I'm sorry that you broke eye too. I'm broke, dude. It is a broke nigga struggle. However, um, cosplay has never actually I'll I'll backtrack a little bit. Um I will say one thing that I I kind of agree with Ms. Kittle is that social media has really hindered cosplay and like harmed it in a number of different ways. And my the the thing that bothers me about it alongside uh you know uh photoshopping images, I'm not even gonna dignify it anymore with adding cosplay onto it. But like on top of photoshopping images, there is this like I want to call it like mass production of like cosplay, and it like ties to like people photoshopping themselves into different characters and calling it cosplay because anecdotally, so anecdote. Um, during 28 days of cosplay, I just learned about this like this past year. Um, I noticed that I was seeing like a lot of the same people over and over again, like on my feed. And so I talked to Miss Skittles about it, and I think I talked to maybe like one or two other people. And what I learned was apparently, 28 Days of Cosplay has been co-opted as to being this 28 Days of Black Cosplay, if he's not the same. 28 Days of Black Cosplay has been like co-opted into being this weird challenge when that's never what it was about. Like people are trying to throw together a cosplay for every single day for for like the month of February. But the the purpose of 28 Days of Black Cosplay wasn't to try and put on as many cosplay as you can to, you know, as like some some sort of like menial challenge or whatever to your skill and your creativity as a cosplayer. It's for the community of black cosplayers that we have to elevate each other and to give visibility to those who don't have visibility.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 9:27

Um and like not even just as black cosplayers, but as cosplayers in general, because there are a lot of cosplay, there are a lot of like black cosplayers who have amazing skill, but they don't have like the visibility or the following, regardless of whether they care about it or not. Specifically, it's not so much about that, but it's more so that the it's about giving the limelight to people who don't get the chance to get it. And it's about sharing other people and not trying to. I just finished watching the second season of Fairfax, so bear with me. But like it's not about like clout chasing in that way. Like a lot of cosplay has turned into this this persistent like chase of turning something that we love and something that we have, you know, used for a number of different for like used therapeutically in a number of different ways for a really long time as just another way to become Instafamous, like become like uh become uh an influencer, like turn this into this whole like capitalistic production system of oh, I have to put out more cosplay so I can be seen, so I can be so I can get more sponsors, so I can do this and I'll do that. And it's like and it's like I dislike the the also the kind of like hustle culture aspect of it of like doing something you love so hard until it becomes like this whole job thing. It's like that's cool, that's all well and good, it's fine. Um, I think that it's one of the larger myths that gets associated with like the production of labor and the like further like exploitation of like product and of people's relationship to their um to their you know their their life work, their life product. Um but that has a lot of reverberating effects when it comes, that has a lot of reverberating um consequences um in the pejorative sense when it comes to something like cosplay. Um and I don't think a lot of people like really acknowledge that in a way. And I think that something that is really pervasive is that we spend a lot of time trying to avoid gatekeeping because gatekeeping has like this huge traumatic relationship with so many different fandoms and things of that nature, but it's definitely something that's useful. Um, I don't think that there's anything wrong with having standards and criterion to really qualify what a thing is and what qualifies to be that thing. And it's not that no one can participate in it, but there are benchmarks that need to be met in order to, you know, be associated with something.

SPEAKER_06 12:11

I'm glad you brought that up because the the other thing that so there, I mean, amongst there there are so many things that um I could talk about and in relation to social media and cosplay, but the second most irritating pet peeve outside of the photoshopping for me is um and and this is where where like the whole gatekeeping aspect comes in. When do we give consideration to someone's uh costume and then calling them a cosplayer? Like how like where where's where's that baseline at? So I have seen, we have seen uh and I don't want to throw no shade to like um celebrities or you know, you know, anything like that, wrestlers, things like things of that nature. But the moment one of these celebrities um dresses up in a costume of a character in our community, in the nerd community specifically, um they become a cosplayer. Oh my god, did you see so-and-so's cosplay? Did you see uh so she's a cosplayer? Like, and and and it irritates my soul because it'll be it'll be a lot of these feature pages where that are supposed to be uplifting cosplayers that'll share these um celebrities and be like, this is this is the storm we needed. This is, you know, this is the best uh Molina I ever seen. Well, um, yeah, because this person is a celebrity and I'm sure they spared no expense in making sure that this cosplay and these pictures were on point before they dropped it on social media. And and here we have people who are who are making these things from scratch, who are spending their own personal money, um, you know, modifying whatever they bought online or or um making wigs from scratch and doing their damn mischant purchasing ring lights and backdrops and everything else to make sure their pictures are on point. Um, and they drop them on the internet only only, you know, for a feature page to be like DM us if you want to be featured. Um, and then when they do feature you, it's in the stories or um or it's 17 months later. Unless your your cosplay is um acceptably, you know, going viral, a lot of these pages are not looking for you, especially if you are a black cosplayer or a cosplayer of color. Um so um it really irritates my soul when I see these featured pages um use their their platform with millions of followers just to share a celebrity because she threw on a Yorichi cosplay and Halloween! And I guarantee um she has no idea who that character is or her backstory or anything. Um, not saying that you have to know who every character is to cosplay them for Halloween at that. Um, if you only cosplay once a year, um I'm sorry I'm going to say it. Uh, this is me gatekeeping because I've said this on my um Facebook cosplay page, and Lord did they come for me. But but I will say it again because I stand by it. It's something I've said in the past, and something that I still feel strongly about now. Um if you cosplay once a year, oh y'all can't see orders. If you cosplay once a year, you are not a cosplayer. And that's just I I feel like I feel like for me, as my for for my gatekeeping standards, to be a cosplayer, it is a lifestyle. It is something that you are passionate about, you are committed to, whether you make them or or commission them or or buy them, none of that matters. But it is a passion that you are constantly putting money into, you are constantly putting mental health into, there's effort behind it, um, and and and it's it's meaningful. Like, you know, like there's there's a little stress there when you don't, you know, make a deck like, okay. That's what makes you a cosplayer to me. Um, now if you just purchase this little uh Hobby Lobby costume or uh 20% off from a spirit of Halloween or some shit and they do nothing to it, right, and took a picture and and they went viral for Halloween, whoop-dee-doo, but that don't make you a cosplayer dude.

SPEAKER_08 17:18

And it's like I don't want people to hear these things and be like, oh, we all just gatekeepers, like, well, one yes, but like not gate. It's funny, I talked to the doctor about this literally like two days ago, about like what it means to have a healthy form of gatekeeping. And I think when people think about gatekeeping, they think about like sentinels standing at like a locked door, and that's not what we're really talking about. Like the gates are the doors of the church are open, child. The the gates are there, they're open. You can get in, but you know, if you go and get in, you just gotta do some stuff, and that's nothing wrong with doing some stuff. Right. And like I I like to use the analogy of like a doctor, right? Um, like if you if you didn't do the the the work, if you didn't do, if you didn't study, if you didn't do the research, if you didn't go through the process that you need to go through to be actively known and considered and affirmed and acknowledged as a doctor, then you're not a doctor. Just slapping doctor on your name like you doctor Umar, that's not that don't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

We just those names.

SPEAKER_08 18:30

Nonetheless, like the and and that's that's kind of what we're getting at. Like the we're not saying that there's no way for anyone to be a cosplayer unless they do these exact things. It's more so if you're going to be a cosplayer, then you have to, you don't well, excuse me, you have to kind of acknowledge the fact that there's more to being a cosplayer than just putting on a costume every now and again. And this kind of ties back to what I was saying, uh the point that Ms. Kittle's like rightly brought up about um knowing a character. I do think you need to know the character because I um one of my I'll say at bare minimum for myself and I know for some others, and I think it is a bit more, I think it's I think it should be a necessary requirement in some way, shape, or form. When you cosplay a character, like there needs to be some sort of connection to that character, right? Um, and I say that because I remember once I was talking to another cosplayer, and you know, I was talking about uh Overwatch cosplay, and they're like, Oh, you should do uh, I think they said Rohog or something. And I was like, I don't even like Rohawk, I don't care about him, and uh he can eat shit and die twice, thrice. But and and this other cosplayer said to me, Who cares? It's just it's who cares, it's just cosplay. And I'm like, uh no, I care. Right, part of the reason I cosplay the characters that I do is because I have a very intimate connection with who they are, right? They there is something about them, about their story, about how they're designed, about their persona, about how they're written, about how they're portrayed, about all of these different things that kind of which you can for all intents and purposes culminate down to a very human experience in some way, or even some sort of like ideological like connection that really brings them into my fold as someone as being worthy is not the right word, or being considerate, or being considered for being a character that I want to cosplay. Like, I remember someone tried to give me to a one-piece cosplay. I was like, I don't really care about the character that much. I mean, I that I liked their position in the story, they were great, but I I they don't have my attention. Like, and I think that something that's important to acknowledge is that sure, cosplay for all intents and purposes is a very like it's a hobby, but the thing about hobbies is that we don't do, we don't simply just connect with hobbies because it's something to do. Like hobbies have a very intimate connection with the things that we need and how we are as people. And I can say that I find I find it personally defensive in in a lot of different ways when things like graphic design, masquerading as cosplay, um, or you know, one-off Halloween outfits from people who, for all intents and purposes, do not have like a community connection like we do, or have like that intimate connection with these characters or these stories that we do get put on these kinds of pedestals and try to be protected simply because of the desire to be recklessly inclusive. There we go. That's what I want to say. Recklessly inclusive. I'm proud of myself because I don't know what I was gonna do, I don't know what the word is, but recklessly inclusive is what I was looking for. Because when I think about reckless inclusive Inclusivity, I think about like that really radical neoliberal kind of inclusivity where it's like, oh, we need to make sure there's like we need to make sure there's space for everyone to be comfortable, even like the ones who want to kill you. Like the ones who don't give a shit about your life in any way, shape, or form, they need to be comfortable too in the same spaces that you're in that were like curated for you specifically because you didn't feel safe like initially. Like, that's what I mean. That that kind of reckless inclusivity can completely deteriorate the thing that you know we we want to continue to have in this integrity and with this level of like earnest, earnestness, earnest, with this level of earnest that we didn't get a chance to really have otherwise.

SPEAKER_07 22:48

Yeah, it's it's interesting. And I guess, you know, coming at it from, you know, I'm someone who was really interested in cosplay for some time, and then that's kind of felt like I couldn't do it for a lot of reasons. So I'm all the outside of looking in from someone's perspective. But of course, I see a lot of it in a lot of the gaming spaces where, you know, cosplaying really does thrive and get celebrated. And social media is interesting, and I notice it does a lot of, it can create a lot of the same kinds of issues in a lot of these communities that, you know, may have once been more like close-knit and whatnot, but now you have this massive large audience where you don't have to necessarily, you know, drive X hours to reach, you know, somewhere to touch a whole lot of you know your put your base. And so it's this sudden kind of burst in power that comes with that. And then there is this sudden, you know, also a bigger, you know, I'm glad that black women's just a capitalistic component, you know, that comes with social media, where now you're thinking about monetizing things. And now you're thinking about, you know, well, how can I, you know, network, use this network effectively so I can, you know, make the part possible, make more money off this or something like that. And that's this huge component, um, especially in the context of, you know, now the pandemic, where, you know, there's all this huge socioeconomic strain. I notice those types of issues rising up more and more. Um, and then that changes like when people, you know, want a cosplay like one, who cosplayers can effectively cater to, because now it's not just your small community, let's say, it's this much bigger audience. And then um, you know, who, let's say, um, what the audience look from, the audience is and how the audience engages with cosplay. Yeah. And that's where you get a lot more um, you know, kind of a lot more differences in how like 20 days of black cosplay plays out, for example, like at home, oh well now like it's people like machine gunning to try and you know get as much as they can in because you know, there's the trying to build its own into trying to networks and trying to get more fame and more, you know, possibly more um security or capitalistic, you know, gain from this. Because that is essentially we think about like influencers, like that's just another form of capitalistic gain that has really adapted to the media we have now, you know. So it's and it changes what the space looks like and it changes how it's present, you know, how it presents. And of course it creates a lot of these new issues that you know you both talked about. Um and I guess it and it raises a lot of complicated questions. And I don't know if anyone found that there is one clean answer to this. But you know, in the context of gatekeeping, um you know, it's it's true because of course every community has to have standards. You know, um, you have to have, I think the only men talk about this is more around like identity communities and whatnot. And cosplaying is also an identity community in addition to, you know, an activity. There's an identity with, you know, oh, I am a cosplayer or I am not a cosplayer.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:02

And the challenge there is with a lot, like with a lot of you know, communities that are focused around some type of um identity and activity, like it's you have to have standards, but it's also a question of who's setting those. And you know, I always say that everyone's okay with gatekeeping when they believe they're inside the gate. So, you know, it's safe against the people.

SPEAKER_08 26:30

Absolutely. That's that's that's what we so that's gonna be one of our clips that we put on the screen.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yes, probably.

SPEAKER_08 26:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 26:40

I'm gonna write that down. Hold on. And it's tricky because, you know, you of course you have to have you want to have these standards, and you know, I think like even as this outside looking in, the idea of something purely Photoshop being called the same thing as a cosplay, like that doesn't sit right with me. It's just it just doesn't, no. But it's also it's one of those things that it can be difficult, difficult to ask or difficult to really set where those cutoffs are, you know, and then who's setting where those cutoffs are. A lot of times it's the majority within those communities. You know, that's how you get a lot of the gatekeeping, I think we more we recognize more easily as toxic. But especially something like, you know, cosplaying, where some of the things that you know you were mentioned as these really core like criteria that I agree with are difficult to ascertain, like community collection or connection, like your motivation or your personal connection to the character you're cosplaying, you know, because you have to have that. How would someone figure out if someone has that or not with the character they're cosplaying? Like that's a hard thing to really pin down into someone else. So it's it's tricky, you know, and I think with the uh, yeah, I think on the medical um kind of metaphor or analogy for analogy for this, right? You know, I think that if we didn't have, say, in organized like this really standardized organization of medicine that said, oh well, when you have finished, you know, these college courses, now you're considered a doctor. Um if you didn't have that, I'm sure a lot of, you know, a lot of fellow researchers would not consider me a doctor at all. You know, like a lot of us who are maybe newer in the space who may not look like the majority, you know, when it comes, or who may not do the kind of research or the kind of work that is consistent with, you know, what the majority might believe is the appropriate type of work. So it's it's complicated, you know, and I think that thinking about those questions and acknowledging that, you know, in the age of social media, cosplay can't look exactly the same, right? Um, just because like now we have this whole new medium that's being you know utilized much more. Um, I mean, those are things to figure out. And, you know, I don't think they have any singular clear answers. But are the things that you you know you kind of think about when you think about some of the challenges and issues that have come up with cosplay in the past, let's say, even just three years, I think just thinking about what the pandemic has done, like it's magnified a lot of those issues with both the um increased alliance on social media due to the loss of a lot of the in-person spaces, yeah, which of course that's changing now, but even then that's dangerous at best.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah. So my thought process on it, um, because I didn't really have a massive one because I'm not a cosplayer in any way, shape, or form. Um, I've and similar to the doctor, I've thought about, you know, being a cosplayer. Well, let me rephrase that. I've thought of getting into a costume. So there's a difference. And I think I've had conversations with people in the past who's like, oh yeah, you can be a cosplayer. And I think because I have, and I've said it in previous episodes, I have such a reverence for the skills, the capabilities, the abilities of those who um are, in quotations, cosplayers who have the status, the title of a cosplayer because of the things that Miss Skittles and the Black McCoy mentioned. Um the it's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle. The, you know, the time, the thought process, the research, the backstory, the feelings, the connections, the emotional values for what they're diving into, the uh continuous nature of it is not one time a year. Um, it could be four times a year, but at least you know you're planning it out a year in advance. You're dedicating resources and you know, um emotions into you know creating this image, this entity. Um, you know, and for me, what bothers me the most as it pertains to cosplay and social media, social media is influence on cosplay is that word I just used, which is influence or influencer. Um that's actually my issue with social media, and that's a conversation for another time as well. But because of the age that we live in, because of the generations that we all go back and forth talking about, the concept of influencer is is now a multi-million dollar career. And you don't need a resume, well, you don't need a uh a degreed resume to attain that status. You literally need one idea for 15 minutes or less that can uh get you to this status and make you a household name potentially. And if someone sees a cosplayer of the Skills of Miss Skittles or the Black McCoy or CyNet cosplay, put out such beautiful and cryptic yet creative and awe-inspiring imagery, and they have hundreds of thousands of followers. We're like, okay, if they do that, okay, so I can do this and I can do that, and I can be an overnight celebrity. I mean, Twister said it back in the day and I believed him. I didn't think niggas was really gonna try and do that years later. Um, because that idea, that concept of being an influencer, it really drives people to do the most extreme of things. You know, let's for a moment go outside of cosplay. You know, people injure themselves to be an influencer, people slap their mama to be an influencer, people go to jail to be an influencer, people, you know, eat shit to be an influencer. Like you, there's so many, like, so like when ASCII just one has imagery in my mind. I mean, two girls in one cup was a thing, y'all. It was a thing. And we let it let it go until this moment. Sorry, we did, but they became influencers even for a moment. I mean, social media wasn't like it was back then.

SPEAKER_08 32:49

Were they uh were they influencers?

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Or they did other videos, they got a little bit more change after that video. They did a couple of other things with a bottle and I'm not gonna go into it. Anyway, so I'm not gonna dive into it.

SPEAKER_08 33:04

This isn't the crimes against humanity episode. Ooh, yes. Um, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

But the the with with the premise of being an influencer, people will do or feel as though they need to do any and everything to get the attention of the mass populace to be able to attain some type of, as the doctor said and the black McCoy said, some type of capital, some type of revenue. And going back into cosplaying, I have seen a many individuals get their five seconds of fame. Not 15 minutes, but their five seconds of fame. It can be one post that got over a hundred likes. They're like, oh, hmm, okay, that's okay, all right. And instead of, and to to me, it's almost like going to like in an anime with where the main character protagonist goes to a magic school. And the magic school, they have all of these different classes and they teach you how to, you know, spells and incantations, they teach you potions, they teach you the chemistry of magic, and they teach you, you know, wand usage and all this other stuff. Quidditch. I mean, granted, this is a whole nother magic school, but you know, they do a bunch of different things. With cosplaying, it's for me, my understanding of it, or the way that I break it down to make it under make it understandable to me, it's almost like a uh uh almost like a trade school or a four-year institution with magnified um specialties. So instead of you having to do a full course, like there's there's foundational courses, you know, promoting yourself, uh, painstaking scheduling, organization, things like that. But not everybody has to go through those base courses. You can test out of those courses. One of the tests could be you have more money. So there's no painstaking accuracy you have to go through. Maybe you have more free time. So there's no time management. You can just do anything at any time. Maybe you have, maybe you're already an influencer in some way, shape, or form. So now you don't have to worry about getting in front of people. You already have a schedule put you in front of people. So you can just be there and be the cosplayer that you are in those environments. So you skip over certain things because you take placement tests, right? And but then when you go into your actual base courses or your uh what's it called, your uh degreed courses, now you have phones uh foam smithing, you have seamstress, you have body paint art artists, you have uh uh a badass MomoCon slayer, you have uh uh she didn't see that coming. You see, you know, uh uh um a a 10-year-long uh detailed alphabon uh uh uh uh institution. First of all, it won't take 10 years. I didn't say it would, but you've you you've been creating it. You've been creating it and enhancing it and making it better every single month. So I'm saying it's gonna take 10 years because you're not gonna stop where you are now. You're gonna make it better after that, because that's the type of person that you are. Um you you have the uh uh uh the hue saturation goddess who showcases colors and and paint in a way that most people would only dream of, and some people don't even dream in color. So you have these different types of classes with you know uh uh Professor McGonagall Skittles and uh uh the the black snake and uh uh uh Professor Alba Sayune, you know, you have these different classes that showcase these different skills, and you can you can utilize those skills and promote yourself accordingly. But the problem is if your end goal is not to showcase your passion, if your end goal is not to just let people see what you can do, but your end goal is to use this as a medium to become famous or an influencer, then personally you're in it for the wrong reasons. And the sad part is what I've understood over the last couple of weeks and months uh from you know the fellow cosplayers on the panel or the podcast is people who might have started with the right intentions allow the capital, uh the capitalism, the influencer status, the and social media in and of itself to lead them astray, lead them off the path. And the path I more so mean is oh, I'm a bad bitch and nobody can stop me. Or, oh, they're looking at me and they're giving me money. Or, you know, I can utilize this and now I don't have to do all of that. Like, oh, she's taking how many months just to do one cosplay? I can I can go buy this, put my name on it, or put a badge on it, and I'm a cosplayer. Get at me, boo. Google me, baby. And that and that's it.

SPEAKER_08 37:44

I try to make my make my shit cool.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Nope, they don't care. They'll walk into the pond as hot as it is, wearing what they bought. And I'm like, there's nothing, and again, as all of our cosplayers have said, there's nothing wrong with buying your cosplay. If that is I bought my low-key cosplay, I made the helm, but I bought the rest of that shit. I can't sell. There's nothing wrong with that. Right. If that's what you want to do and that's the flow that you want to get, but there's for me, there's a difference between buying it and wearing it and embracing your character and buying it and wearing it to get people's attention, likes, follows, and then eventually sponsorship. And that influencer mindset for cosplayers is what always makes me cringe. Um, because it's like if you're doing it for yourself, and that's it, honestly for me, that's anything. If you're doing it for yourself and not for the progression of people who are wanting to do it as well, then you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. I don't do the things I didn't, I don't want to be on this podcast to say, hey, we have a podcast. Listen to me. Nah, I did it because all of the panelists here have something that they want to say, and those who are listening may have similar or even opposing views. And we want to have that discussion. We and we want to bring you into the discussion so we all have a voice. That's why I'm doing the podcast. Same thing with for what I see with cosplayers. I don't see the black McCoy creating these. I've had several conversations, small conversations with the black McCoy about, oh, you should do this for this, and maybe you can do that for that. And they're like, nope, that's not what it's for. Oh, but you can get money with this, you can get money with that. That's not what it's for. That part.

SPEAKER_06 39:20

Because social media has literally turned cosplay into that. Oh my god, so-and-so's birthday is uh happening. Let me let me go buy this cosplay so I can make sure I post pictures for this particular character's birthday.

SPEAKER_08 39:34

Oh, oh my god, this this voice actor just died. Let me like your characters.

SPEAKER_06 39:37

Oh my god, the voice actor died. Oh my god, this movie is coming out. Oh my god, uh you know, like it it has turned into like like a competition. Who can drop it the fastest? Who can drop it the fastest? And then sometimes it ain't even on point, dog. It's not even you should have kept that in the draft.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

You can see the rush. You can see the rush.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

I have a lot of thoughts. I had to write this down. Um, you were taking notes.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Okay, LA B, New York.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

I have a lot of thoughts, and it might take some time. It might be quick. I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 40:15

You have nothing but time.

SPEAKER_04 40:18

So, cosplay. A lot of people forgot why we cosplay. A lot of people forgot what cosplay is. And cosplay is invoking a character that we really feel near and dear to us and bringing it to life. It could be cosplaying a character that is, we want to portray the exact uh visuals of that character without, you know, uh trying to do any cultural appropriation, or we want to make it our own version of that character. Uh, cosplay is Halloween on steroids because Halloween, you can just matter of fact, cosplayers, we don't, we're not even as active during Halloween.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

We're not. That's one thing I've learned. It's I I was surprised.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Yeah, uh, we but Halloween is my favorite holiday, so to speak. But Halloween, you just buy a costume and you wear it, and and that's that. But Halloween, but cosplay is basically taking the concept of dressing up to the next level to try to make it your own. And you know, because everyone looks different, you know. So we're gonna try to bring our individuality to it. No one's cosplay looks the same, so to speak, because we all don't look the same. But um, I do have issues when it comes to uh a lot of things. I'll start with trends. Cosplay trends aggravate the hell out of me, uh, especially what was what was said with Miss Skittles and uh the Black McCoy. I I I will always say, I don't want to be famous, I don't want to be famous, I don't want to be well known because there's too much negativity that comes with it. For a cosplayer, for us to bring our all into our heart and soul, into our work, and for it to be dragged and criticized because our hair is kinky, or because the color of our skin, or because of our body type, it's it's disheartening. And the more your content is exposed, the more hate you get. And of course, we say, Oh, you know, gotta be confident, but we're all fucking human. And at the end of the day, no one wants to hear our shit, ain't shit, or we don't look like this person, or they're or we're called a racial slur because we wanted to put ourselves out there, and a lot of us we didn't even want to be a cosplayer because we've seen it with our own eyes, what cosplayers of color had to go through, what plus size cosplayers have to go through or are going through currently. And we're like, we don't even want that smoke, we don't want it. But we put it, we put our fears to the side because we wanted to encourage younger cosplayers or older cosplayers in the making to really hone in our talents, our individual talents, and just just just put ourselves out there because it's it's also giving encouragement to other people that have literally been coming to me. I've been wanting to cosplay for years, but I'm scared, I don't want to be, you know, bullied and I don't know what to do. And I'm like, you do it because you love it, you do it because we're all nerds and we just want to embrace that culture. So it's a lot of it's a lot of strength, mental strength to put ourselves out there in the public eye and uh to promote our content, to go to conventions, because everybody is going to be looking at our content with a fine tooth poem. That was not what cosplay was about. That was not what the beginning of cosplay was about. Cosplay was just wanting to dress up like your favorite character or running to dress up like a character that we can relate to. And we just wanted to, it either could be for ourselves. Or for everyone to see. But now it has been a social popularity contest. And it's bothering the hell out of me. Especially when I'll start with sex cells. And this is a disclaimer because I love sex workers. I love the work that they do. I have friends with sex workers. I have no problem with sex work.

SPEAKER_08 44:23

And despite how calm and like Christine sound they sound, she's lewd as hell. She's very like don't let the don't let the melodious sounds of her voice fool y'all.

SPEAKER_05 44:34

Melodious.

SPEAKER_08 44:37

This is what convinces me.

SPEAKER_04 44:40

Um but when it comes to content and specifically cosplay content for me, I've noticed that I would put hours of planning, hours of trying to figure out what I want to do to bring a certain character to life. And I might not show a lot of ass or titties or thighs or whatever. And the I would say the reception of it is not as much to let's say another cosplayer who just put on a t-shirt and slapped on a hat, but because everything is showing, they get thousands of likes. Yeah, you know, it's like you know, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I even dealt with it with my own content. And I, you know, I I speak, um, I have conversations all the time with my partner. And I was saying, you know, I don't want to do content because I know that when I give these niggas a little bit of cleavage and die, these they fucking lose their shit, and I don't like it because that's not what I'm here for. I'm I I could have a whole entire different content if I want to. I I have the power to do so, you know. I've I've dabbled, so I already been there, I've done that before. So I already know the culture because I was in that culture at a time.

SPEAKER_08 45:56

And she knows how easy you horny little bitches are. It's not difficult.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

So this is not like, oh well, Sayone doesn't understand. No, I I I I understand completely, but that's not what I'm making my content for, but that's not what a lot of us are making our content for because that that's not what our talent was, or that's not the audience we're trying to capture, so to speak. So I'll talk about when I did a uh a gothic fae. Um I remember that one.

SPEAKER_08 46:27

Yes, that was amazing. The one you had that white wig, great.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

White wig and some black nails, and I looked like a dominatrix. And it was cute, it was slight. I was not expecting this shit to have 18,000 fucking thousand likes. Because to me, I was annoyed. I'm like, bitch, I be spending hours of fucking body painting. Y'all niggas lose your shit for a little bit of tea, little titties and thighs. It's like I didn't want that hurdle now. Yes, like I was mad, you know, and my partner's like, yes, you need to do more. I said, no, this is the shit I don't like. That this is what I'm saying. Like, you know, I don't like it. And I love when, you know, you when you go on a certain page and you have um, you know, lewd cosplayers, that's their content. That is the the the audience they choose. So I understand that. You know, sex sells, that's not my content. So when I'm getting a coin off a horny buddy, but it's just it's very it's very frustrating. And I feel like a lot of cosplayers who that is not their particular focus with their creativity, you know, and and I've had them, I had conversations with them. They're like, well, shit, do I need to show some titties and ass to get some likes too? And I'm like, no, you should never have to sacrifice your your your comfortable, your, I would say, your comfortability.

SPEAKER_08 47:44

Yeah, no, comfortability.

SPEAKER_04 47:46

Um, to get views, to be noticed. You shouldn't have to do that. And social media has changed it so that if you don't show a little bit of ass or do something a little strange for a piece of change, you're not gonna be seen. Or it's gonna be very, very difficult to do that unless you have pre-privilege. And that's another thing that a lot of people don't want to talk about in cosplay. If you don't have pre-privilege, your shit's not gonna be fucking seen.

SPEAKER_08 48:15

Yeah, pretty privilege.

SPEAKER_04 48:17

It's not gonna be it is a real thing.

SPEAKER_08 48:19

I didn't know I know it is.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

I'm just saying, she's telling the truth. I don't think we're ready for the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 48:23

A lot of people aren't ready for a conversation, you know what I'm saying? And and I see it, we all see it, and we all have to understand that we would not be where we are if we didn't have a little bit of that pretty privilege, and that's that's fact. And I see cosplayers who blow my talent out the water, but because maybe they they're not to societal's views of what beauty is, they're not noticed, and it's not fucking fair. These are people who are crafted by hand garments and weapons and rigs and makeup, and I'm I'm just in awe. And because they don't have this country's societal standard of beauty, they will not be noticed. But then I start to see that they show a little bit of ass and thigh because they're like, well, shit, I have to do something. And then they start to get some type of recognition. And this is why cosplay, if it continues the way how it is, I'm gonna see myself not be a part of a community because it's going to take my love, my passion for what I wanted to do and turn it into a popularity contest that I never wanted to be a part of in general. Um, I'll definitely say another issue I have going back to Miss Skittles is the Photoshop. A lot of people know that a lot of my cosplays is body paint, which wasn't it wasn't even originally what it was supposed to be in the first place. It just happened to be that. So I just kind of kind of fell down the hole.

SPEAKER_08 50:04

Now we're here.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

Now we're here. That was I never thought I'm gonna be a body painting cosplayer. That's not what that was about, but it just kind of blossomed into that, and I'm grateful for that. But um body painting for me takes hours to prep, to put on, to fucking clean my bathroom. It's not fun. And a lot of times I'm like, how am I doing that?

SPEAKER_08 50:28

I was like, wait, what, clean your bathroom? I was like, oh yeah, true. You gotta get off medicine. And I I know from the first time I cosplayed Beast like years ago, and I was taking it off after the day. Um, and I was like, my my tub was blue for uh at least two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

Your skin will still have um, you know, blue staining.

SPEAKER_08 50:53

It's like when you go to the beach and you come back and you still find the sand in places for the next month and a half, and you don't know why it's there.

SPEAKER_04 50:59

Sand is still in your cooch and you wash it three times. I'm like, why are you still here? You know, so like there's there I put a lot of work in. So when I see cosplayers use Photoshop to change the color, it aggravates me. Because the uh with pretty privilege and with Photoshop, their shit is blown off the water. And I'm and I'm here guessing my talent. I'm like, what am I doing wrong? What am I because I'm what am I doing this for? And of course I'm doing it for myself, but I'm also trying to, you know, put myself out there. But what I'm seeing that someone who doesn't necessarily have as much talent as me, and this is not even to with my horn, this is just basic shit. Putting on a dress, coloring their skin, hey, this is a cosplay, and their shit blows up. I have to look at what is going on here because now I'm I'm constantly in imposter syndrome. Because I'm like, I must be doing something wrong. Um, and then I start to notice it is pretty privilege. I don't, I'm not socially the standards of beauty as they are. I don't have a body like they do, and you know, and or I'm not racially ambiguous like they are. And that's where I start to see cosplays turning into bullshit because it's not even about who we are and our talent anymore. It's about basically the shit that we see in regular media. Why that or the most popular girl or most popular person in school. It's all a popularity contest. Um, and that's really starting to kind of like play on a lot of cosplayers' mental, or even just people who want to get into cosplay. Because we've gone, we've been in cosplay for about I would say almost 10 years as a group, or we've kind of dabbled into it longer than that. So, but but we've seen cosplay before it's became this. So you're starting to see people who are trying to get into cosplay now, they're seeing the bullshit. And so if I were getting into cosplay now, I probably wouldn't because I'm like, why would I get into something that's so negative? You have a lot of gatekeeping in your own, like I would say, ethnic group, you know, a lot of black cosplayers or a lot of or black community. Um, you know, you put on a fucking Molina cosplay and show ass and titties and niggas out here like this is the best fucking cosplay I've ever seen in my entire life. You have somebody who literally spends hours making wings and and and body paint, and they're like, I mean, it's cool, it's like weird, but like, you know, it's it's whatever. I'm like, bitch, I didn't go out.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

I could have gone and fucking laugh, he just snapped, it scared me.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

So I could have gone to the party city and bought a shit and did a little, you know, did a little spin and do that too. Like, that's what so the there is gatekeeping is a little a little grain of salt of it is is actually healthy. Because not you can't you can't be out here saying, Hey, I took an adopsiology class, I'm a doctor. Y'all can come to me for advice. No, you can't do that. There are certain criteria, and but then there's a thin line because you know, anybody can cosplay, and a lot of it goes down to individuality as well, and that is why you have cosplayers that are so well known. You don't have to be a uh uh foam smith, you don't have to be a body painter, you don't have to be a makeup artist. One of my favorite cosplays are people that do closet cosplay or who use things around the house. Things I in my mind I can I can never have that type of creativity. They use duct tape and you know, and piece of construction paper and then cardboard and cardboard and you know, or like food around the house and make closet cosplay. And that is written.

SPEAKER_08 54:58

Oh, wait, that one dude.

SPEAKER_04 54:59

Okay, I was like, I didn't want to say any names, but you know, but that's like I know we're not wasting food.

SPEAKER_08 55:05

Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

Right, but that's what I'm saying. We don't even have to say a name, and we already know who the cosplayer is in our mind because they they give that that impression to us, and which is so important. Um, and I would like to also uh say I have an issue with the um with the cultural cultural appropriation only being for white people, nobody else. And nobody wants to ever talk about this. But cultural appropriation is not only, we don't, we shouldn't only go after white people when they I was like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_08 55:45

Yes, I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 55:46

Okay, we should also go after our own people when they cultural have appropriation in cosplay. Um, and there was the Jabbaro episode that came out with right on Netflix. And um, you know, it was interesting because I read something that was very important. They're saying, you know, please do not cosplay this. This is actually um about the Tano people. I believe it's Puerto Rico, I believe, or I think it's the Puerto Rican Taino tribe. And they're talking about how this was about um, I think the Spanish conquistadors, the Spanish were trying to basically uh steal and and and use and and take over their riches for their own. Um, and then the Taino people basically um uh overpowered them and and and basically said, niggas, you ain't gonna take my shit. And that was basically what the it was a homage to that particular incident in history. And so people are like, please do not cosplay this. This will be considered cultural appropriation to the Taino people. And a lot of times cosplayers have to do research. I always do research to make sure that I educate myself that I'm not gonna do something that is gonna be offensive on a cultural standpoint. I on purpose did not do Anna from Tekken, even though she's my main bitch, but I didn't want to do her because she is wearing um a Chinese dress, I think it's the Kipao, I forgot what it's called. Um and I was like, would this be considered, you know, cultural appropriation, so to speak? And they were like, yeah, that's that's if yeah, wouldn't touch it. Um you know, and then I was like, I would love to.

SPEAKER_08 57:27

I'm sorry. I said just like a tolerance.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

Right, you know, exactly. So I'm like, oh, I don't want to put myself in that situation, so I'm not gonna touch it. And then I was like, oh, I would love to do this character, and they're like, listen, it's she's not a cosplay. This is actually, she's supposed to be a representation of the Taino people who um basically um, you know, battled the Spanish conquistadors from taking all their shit. Don't touch it. I'm like, all right, then thank you for educating me on that. I don't touch it. And what do I see? My own people cosplaying the shit that I specifically explained this is this is cultural appropriation. Educate yourself, don't do it. And it's just for oh, it looks pretty, I'm going to cosplay that.

SPEAKER_08 58:08

And it's like what were we talking about? It's it's riding that trend. Like Jabaro had people buy a chokehold for like two weeks, and everyone was talking about it. And so to be seen and to be pushed to push themselves to the forefront, they just hopped on that wave to try and ride it.

SPEAKER_04 58:22

Yeah, and could I have done it? Absolutely, could I have rocked the shit out of it? You know, I would have. I was already having plans. But then, but as a cosplayer or as a human being, you have to be sensitive. We cannot only be sensitive to our plights and not sensitive to other people. And I think a lot of black people don't want to hear that. You can't just say, no, no, no, no, that's cultural appropriation, don't touch it with our shit. No management, you have to also be sensitive to other people as well. And I think that's a conversation that we as black people don't like to have, that we need to have, especially in the cosplay community.

SPEAKER_06 59:01

I was only gonna chime in to say, I'm glad you brought that up because um I've actually I'm not gonna say I've never thought about it because there are certain characters that I've like when I um especially uh where gods are concerned, like um, there are certain gods that you you should just should yeah, and and I've seen and I've seen that in in you know my um just research alone for my like because I like mythology. So just my own personal research on mythology alone, I know there are certain gods that you should not emulate. Um and regardless of you know what I what I look, you know, their their character, their whole design, like who they are, their being, their purpose. Um I just won't touch them. And and a lot of people don't know that. So when I see when I see them um dressing up as, you know, oh, we're gonna do, you know, Greek God photo shoot, or we're gonna do a you know uh African God photo shoot, I'm like, some of them you ain't even supposed to be, you know. If you done your research outside of what the gods, you know, purpose is, yeah, you you would know that this god is not meant to be, you know, impersonated, emulated, embodied, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

And if he is, you'll be cursed.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:32

Right. So um I I do I do acknowledge that um cultural appropriation um does need to be checked outside of um outside of white people. Um I just never thought about it as as much as you were you are mentioning right now. Um like the the Jabbar Dabal is Jabbar. Yes, Jim. That episode for me uh it really uh spoke to me. I know it, I know it like everybody was like, oh, you know, raving on about it. I don't know why they were raving on about it. I don't really know my personal feelings towards the episode. As an artist, um, it was it was um beautifully done. Um, but there there's a there was a whole, you know, there was a whole video I actually shared on IG just now. Um the process that went into making this particular um short. And it outside of you know just the animation spec uh aspect, because uh Love Deaf Robots has featured a lot of amazing um animators and digital media artists that we've seen over the years. But this one in particular, um they they used not not it wasn't just animation behind it. There was uh there was a lot of study in the process, the the movements of the the animation and the characters were people, uh dancers. Uh so it it um and these were these were movements based on bot like actual bodies. Um and I think that made it that much more beautiful to me. It was like, yo, like, because you don't see that every day. People animate characters and it's you know it's animation done through the computer. But um for this to be a short and the amount of time and effort and people that went into it, uh it was it was just astounding to me. But but I learned something today. Sorry, I went on tangent there. I learned something today because I didn't know, um, I didn't know the culture that they pulled from. Um my main purpose for falling in love with it was literally the process and how it was created. So now that I know that there that's an extra later, a layer that you just added, um, was the culture behind it. Like, oh, this was pulled from from real history. Um, you know, because I mean we trade you can trace the Taino people back um to a lot of um Hispanic uh you know people, uh the Dominicans, like Puerto Ricans, there's a there's quite a few um that the that tribe it like traces back to that tribe, the Taino people. So um, so that that's an extra layer that I I never, you know, okay, think of you know, think about it. You know, there are characters out there that are obviously culturally, you can you okay, clearly if I did this, this is you know some cultural appropriation. Like you have to be careful, especially when you choose like the character design that you're gonna do. Like um, certain characters, they in these video games, they do you know provide uh a skin that that speaks to whatever culture that character is is being designed after. And instead of you choosing the cultural skin, you should probably choose the little general one, like if you want to get if you want to uh cosplay that character. But some people will look at a a character design and be like, oh, that's just so pretty. I love it, I'm gonna do it. And it's and literally it's a whole like religious garb or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:34

Meanwhile, you have no idea. You just out here taking pictures and in a whole religious garb, uh garb, you got, you know, you you you just doing whatever. And and you have no idea what the meaning is behind it. So um, so I'm glad you brought that up. Uh and it's just it's just something else for cosplayers to think about.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:56

Like it's interesting that Kazu is not here. It's one of the things that Kaiser and I constantly kind of continue to agree on is that one of the things our community is not, and not even just the cosplay community, but the nerd community, um, is not very proficient in is like literacy. And when I say literacy, I make I'm spanning like all forms of like literacy outside of reading, you know, listening, watching, all forms of like different iterations of reading comprehension. And when it comes to having to genuinely think intimately about something, it's not our community in mass, it's not our strongest, like, it's not our strongest like uh skill. It's not something that we indulge in a lot of the time. And that's partly because, well, I think that it's partly because um there is this like very almost evangelical kind of relationship to following trends and quite. Quote unquote doing cosplay, that there's not that there's not a lot of space for that kind of attentiveness.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

That was an excellent word to use. Oh, thank you. I felt that. Evangelical, I felt that. You are 100% correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:15

Felt the choirs in the background.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:16

Yes, yes, yes, I did.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:18

Going back to Miss Skittles, and a lot of times we have to check ourselves as well. Um, you know, the reason why I I've always loved mythology, and what I might find as mythology is someone's entire religion. And so you have to be very careful about it. Um so when I cosplay my mythology characters, I'm cosplaying off of an art piece, um, so to speak. Uh, not Aphrodite herself, um, not Zeus himself, but more so basing it off of the art and that character that they're using, they're naming it as their version of what they think Zeus is. Um, outside of that, I have done mythology and done my have have cosplayed my version, or I try not to say cosplay, I pay homage to. Um, and I'm gonna go uh to my own culture, the Europa culture, because we always think about Greek mythology. When we think about mythology, a lot of times Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology pops into our heads just just by default, because that is something that we constantly um see it's flooding in in the media um to us uh ever since we were children. But yeah, we forget relationship with those pantheons.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:50

I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:52

Yeah, I I I've always loved mythology. I think, you know, I I don't know. Of course, you know, Christianity, I was brought up in that, so to speak. But it's not as fun, you know. It's not fun, I'm gonna be real with you. It's not as fun, it's not as fun, it's not as colorful, and it's not as it's not as drama filled as the pantheon. Oh, it's drama.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

It's very drama filled, it's just very traumatic.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:22

It is it's traumatic, but it's not as much as a soap. It's not like telenova to me. Like it's not as telenova to me as like the Greek pantsion. So going back to like what I I I wanted to hone in. I'm like, why am I why am I cosplaying these Greek guys when I'm not Greek? And that's what I was really thinking. I'm like, wait a second, I want to cosplay or more so pay homage to look into my own culture. And we as black folks don't even know our own pantheon. And we have our own pantheon that was never one neither taught to us or educated about. I didn't even know of my own pantheon of the Yoruba Pantheon until maybe about four years ago. Um, and I was like, interesting. So I did some research, and I'm like, wow, our pantheon is actually pretty fucking cool. And so um, you know, uh, you know, the uh Oshun, of course everybody knows Oshan, Yamea or Yamoja, um Ayo, you so many, um, so many um uh I would say uh Orishas that are still being practiced to this day. Um and I wanted to pay homage to Oshan, not because of fucking Beyonce, but because it's my culture, it's my culture, and I wanted to pay homage to my culture, and it was very interesting. This I I I um did my rendition of in my eyes what Yamea uh excuse me, uh what Oshan would look like to me, and it was high praise to some, and what I tell you was a lot of criticism for others, which I understood, but they saw me as just some person that was hopping on the bandwagon of Ocei, you know, came out here with her. Um I forgot what song it was when she was in the yellow dress, and she's like, Oh, she was in Rokinosha, and then you just happen on it. I'm like, no bitch, like no, this this do you not see this name? Do you think this is an American name?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:24

Obviously, I really had yeah, that was a thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:29

Well, I'm also not a fan of Beyonce, so it was a very yeah, it was very interesting because what was the the funniest thing was that the people coming for me were not even Nigerian, and that was the funniest shit. They were part of the Beehive. No, they were so it was I I I understood where they're coming from because you're like, hey, you know, this is this is um you look like you're doing an Indian goddess, that's not ocean, this is my culture. I'm like, well, bitch, sweetheart, it's in my my veins. Like you're worshiping, I'm not gonna say that it's not, you know, your religion, because of course it is, but I'm not cosplaying just for cloud. This is actually me paying homage to my heritage, and that's why I don't like to when it comes to my heritage. Um, even with Yamea, you know, I didn't want to, and I did a lot of research. And that's one thing. If I'm going into deities or orishas or I was that that I'm caught, I'm I would say trying to invoke into a visual piece, I'm gonna do research. Hours spent researching about ocean, hours spent on the colors, what her her familiar or her her bird is, hours spent on the character design, on on what it signified with Yamea. Hours spent researching, not just throwing on fucking blue and and calling it a day. No, like I'm not here just, you know, I'm oh Yamea or you know, um Oshan just in the in the mall, just eating like a burger. No, that would be disrespectful.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

That would be actually that actually kind of tackles.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:14

But that was that was not that, you know, I respect who I am portraying. And anytime to be a cosplayer, it's not just to put some shit on, you respect who you are invoking, and I think a lot of people don't have that patience or dignity to do that. Uh, cosplay is not Halloween, it really is doing research on the character, and like the black McCoy said, someone you can see yourself in or that you can connect with on an emotional level. You know, um, I've been I remember that I was told I should do um Mortal Kombat, I should do uh not One Piece characters and Star Wars, which I can't fucking stand. And I was like, I'm not I'm like I refuse to do Star Wars because I don't like Star Wars. So why would I do something for Cloud? Oh, but it's it's May the May the Fourth be with you. I'm like, I don't fucking care. I don't like Star Wars.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:10

So um I'll tell you happy, may the fourth be with you, but I'm not about to go out of my way to do a whole thing I give no shits about.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:18

Like it makes no sense to me. Or you should definitely cosplay Bomba. I I I don't I don't like Dragon Ball Z like that. I I I'm not gonna cosplay something that every other nigga fucking did. I'm not doing it. And you know, or oh I I think you know, why don't you just try to cosplay uh Gwen from Spider-Man to put on a a fucking bodysuit? What the fuck am I gonna do with that? Like, but that's just how I feel. Like, I need to do something where I can I can really number one relate to and I can actually see myself in the character. And I think I think now cosplay is just too much of clickbait. Um, and it that's really all it is. It's just clickbait. What is what's the the the fastest high I can get? And the thing is is that people's cosplay, that was my last, okay, that's my last thought. When we have comedians, you have comedians and you have comedic comedic actors, and comedic actors do not always translate into stand-up comedians. A lot of the times their shit's not fucking funny at all, but they're great on screen. Yeah, when it comes to a lot of these cosplayers that have uh photoshopped their way into clout. Put their fucking convention, put their in a convention and and it won't make sense. You probably won't even know what the fuck they are. Yeah, and that's the shit I don't like. I don't like it because it's like you you look real fucking cute with all that damn digital art on all over your shit.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:47

Oh my god, I can't wait to see you wear this at the next con.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:50

Right, and like you are a fantastic comedic actor, but baby, you're not a comedian. So you cannot bring your shit to a con and call it cosplay. I re I rebuke it. I rebuke that shit, and these are people who have fucking 200,000 followers, fucking 50k. No, no, I I I'm not calling it cosplay.

unknown 1:15:17

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:17

I I'm so hyped for what you said because these these are the same cosplayers who will um and this is this is the problem of social media when they'll be uh shared in these articles and and always the oh this is the best, the these are the best uh uh cosplayers for this particular genre that we've ever seen in 2022, and they'll get shared in these fucking articles, and half the cosplay is photoshopped, uh if not all, um and and it it'll and it's literally like are you serious? Or or or when and I'm and I'm or the the the cosplay has been photoshopped to the point that it is body modification. That irritated my soul because at no point could this person ever show up to a convention, um, which is where which for I don't want to say a real cosplayer, but for a cosplayer um who probably initially got into cosplay, you're you're you want to show these things, you want to show these at conventions, you want to show your skill set in person. Is it can I move in it? Like when I go to the convention, do you see me? I am this character, like I have embodied this character so much that people don't even recognize me because it's like, damn, is that Skittles or is that Storm? I don't know. You're you you're going to a convention and you're like, that that's the end all be all. That that we're creating these things and we show up and and our best work. And for me, I um I'm sure maybe for you guys too, but for me, that's that's the thrill of it. That's the that is the the reason why I put passion in beh behind it, because it's like I'm I am, I did all this artwork, and now I'm going to put it in a gallery show. Come look, come look at me. But when you when you when you throw social media into the whole mix, now you have these people creating digital artwork, which I do every day for a living. But when it comes to cosplay, they're being shared, art people are writing articles, that's best damn cosplay I ever seen. Meanwhile, this person doesn't even look like this physically. Physically does not even look like this. Could not show you this cosplay at a convention because it's not it's not made. It it it wasn't produced.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:56

Oh it was produced, it just wasn't produced.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:59

Right, it was produced by some pixels. Yeah, it wasn't materialized. Um it's not it's not a physical thing that you know that can be born. There's and I feel like there's a certain extent to there is a gatekeep. It should be a gatekeep. There should be a gate for how far you go to to um to to be the character. Like there's there's accuracy and then there's ridiculousness. And um ridiculousness is putting out um putting out cosplay that modifies the way you look physically for clout.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:47

We know what you look like, and it's and it's okay to be that character without trying to uh digitally, physically change who you are. We we know what character you are without you having to do that. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:03

One of the biggest issues that especially like black and like cosplayers of color in general have constantly had to battle with is this this notion of like accuracy or like accuracy of character representation. And this kind of quote unquote, this like hmm, this kind of like photoshopping, this kind of like digital modification just continues to feed into that thing that we've been trying to get away from. Like, oh, I'm going to digitally enhance myself to look as quote unquote accurate as possible to whatever I'm trying to do. And that's not that that's almost antithetical to why we even exist as cosplayers of color, of as black cosplayers, because we don't need to lean into that accuracy to that level in order to be validated and understood and accepted in our community. But it's almost like, oh no, let's throw that out the window because now we can engage in something and try and call it cosplay and do everything that we can humanly possible to make ourselves fit some sort of aesthetic. And uh, and just to kind of uh like continue like the domino effect of something you said earlier is that social media introduce it, social media takes away that aspect of working with one's like hands in a tangible fashion on something material and real that's in front of you and transitions it into what I would like to call a social digital economy, like with it in exchange for clout, in exchange for likes, in exchange for follows, in exchange for features, in hopes of transitioning or exchange creating like a monetary exchange for all of those things and make and trying to validate oneself off of that alone.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:49

And you know, it I wanted to go back to conventions because conventions are the make it or break it to see how much bullshit you are of a person. Um I am not gonna say I don't agree. I I absolutely agree because it's I think that's why, as cosplayers, the reason why we hone in on our talent is that we're literally practicing for con. We've been doing it for years. We might not pop out with content like people who do that clickbait, uh click play um cosplay, like people who put out content fucking four times a day, like they didn't got no goddamn job. We're not like that, but we definitely we definitely cosplay to also make sure that we're better for ourselves because every time we go to a convention, people I think it's gotten to a point where now people don't even know if our cosplays are even real because it and the reason why I say that, I remember people a lot. There were some people that thought my body paint was like Photoshop. They're like, no, it's Photoshops, and it wasn't until I went to Blurcon, they're like, people, it's real, like it's actually it is real, and it was just like what? And I'm like, wow, we really are in a Photoshop world, so now I'm putting more pressure on myself to make sure my shit looks good because we're now we're trying to compete against computer graphics and editing, right? And and that is that's mentally very debilitating on us who's already putting in the fucking work, you know what I'm saying? Like the black McCoy, the the black mccoy has called an April because I'm going back to 2019 when we first met, and I first saw your cosplay, and it blew my fucking mind. I've never saw someone cosplay what you cosplayed in the the hot ass blue fur upside down the fucking thing. Like, listen, you don't understand how that looks rent-free in my motherfucking head, and it always will, because that was iconic to me. You weren't like some well-known cosplayer either, but it didn't matter because the talent spoke for itself. Miss Skittles had a crush on you for the longest fucking time. Matter of fact, I was like bitch. I she she looked like a bad bitch. I don't even think I can talk to her because I wait. She waited.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:23

The singer came out, she revealed the secret, y'all.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:26

I was I was like, it wasn't a secret, we gotta.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:29

It wasn't a secret, I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:32

Miss Skittles had you now, you know what I'm saying? But I was like, I was like, wow, when I found when I saw the wings, um, and I didn't even know that cosplay like where it originated from. But when she made like the red outfit look like a paladin and shit, the big ass yeah, whatever the name is. When a big ass sword, yeah, yeah. Whoever that whoever whoever they use. Yeah, they didn't even matter because I saw the talent. I didn't see Miss Skittles as a big name cosplayer because again, I I really didn't care about big name, I cared about the talent, and that was what to me lives rent feet free in my mind. When Miss Skittles did the the the clock the um collaboration with Sailor Moon and Storm.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:21

Oh yeah, Storm.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:24

I um I I wiped my mouth because I didn't know what the fuck to do with myself. I I I was like, damn, let me get dab my my my my drool because I just never seen, and again, it's creativity, you know. It wasn't that Miss Skittles was dressed up in like a whole Mecca outfit, you know, stomping all around the convention. You know, she didn't have to be this Robotech Gundam, you know, uh collaborator or whatever. It was the creativity. You have two cosplayers that bring their own individuality, shit that I thought I would never see. I would thought I would never see a cosplay that the Black McCoy brought. I thought I would never see the cosplays that Miss Skittles has brought to the table, and they both continue to do so. And that to me is what a true cosplayer is. When you can leave an impact on somebody, they have done work years ago. This is 2022. This is not new cosplays that they've they have done that still remains classics in my mind. And that is, I cannot say the same for a lot of these clout chasing cosplayers that bring out content just to push the algorithm to be seen. And and that's the issue. I know I talk a lot of shit today.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:44

No, no, that's a that's that's a word. Push the algorithm. That's another one we need to clip.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:48

Yeah, not like that.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:50

First of all, sign it and gave us some activities and I know processing because she says that like I literally didn't discover her, like a video that she her cosplay like came across my page. I was like, oh, who is this? And like just immediately follow her and like watch her tutorial.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:07

Just just like I'm sure um, well, she's already said that she was in awe of us, I was in awe of her. I would see her. Um, before I was following her Instagram, I was uh I would see her her body paint being shared on Facebook. Same. So what to me, I thought she was just, you know, some famous makeup artist that, you know, putting out phenomenal work, and I'm like, bruh, I don't know who this is, but she's a bad bitch. Like she's I'm like, I was just astounded by her color usage and the fact that you know it was body paint, you know, it was just like this is somebody who's who is taking time. So um when I when I when I see you know makeup artists who also cosplay, I I had Saeone um in and up there with untouchable people like um so Hiram Bree and Tanisha and you know, like cosplayers like that who who I see uh all the time in the community, you know, because of their makeup skills and body paint. So I'm thinking Sanae, one of those untouchable and it and um it's but it just it just goes to show that there's so many talented, you know, people out there in the community, and and if you don't have a certain following, you know, social media is kind of unforgiving. Like they it's like, who are you? Um, why are you here? I and and and um for 28 days, so it really disappointed me this year. I was highly disappointed. Because my favorite part of 28 days is uplifting, especially the quote unquote smaller cosplayers who just don't get the shine that they deserve. In 2021, there were multiple cosplayers that got shared in the black community who were building. And we don't see a lot of male cosplayers in our community. So when I see um male cosplayers building astounding stuff, I'm talking about phone sniffing. And and I look at their page and it's less than 1K, I'm like, how? How is this possible? I just it is it's crazy to me. And and and this goes back to um again social media. If if you're not pushing the algorithm, nobody's gonna see you. And I mean, if you're not pushing stuff out, like Synee said, four four times a day, like who got time for that? If you got a full-time job, like it, and I mean sh shit. If you if you got other things you do in life, who has time? Like uh, it's just you remember we tried that TikTok shit during the 2020 when it's yeah, so I stayed on that TikTok train for uh a good six months and and and and I was exhausted, okay? So I don't understand. Um and I don't think it's just it's not just cosplay's fault though. It is it is social media's uh fault as well, and how they how they have um coaxed these people into um becoming uh influencers or content creators. Like so, for example, Instagram, every every uh other month or so, this little notification pops up. I don't know if it's because I'm close to 10k or what, but I did this little notification that pops up that says, hey, um earn money by making reels. Uh uh you could possibly earn um 1k, one one one 5k. You know, if you if you start more making more reels today, would you like to get on this opportunity? No, bitch, I don't got time. Okay, so I know you tired, boo. Like it's no, it's no way, it's no way. Um they got photos. Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:26

But how can you keep loving it if you have it being like like exploited like that by yourself?

SPEAKER_06 1:30:32

Right. I I just I can't do it. And and it's not um, it's not just you know, cosplayers doing it for cloud, um, but it's also for for monetization. I need to make some money. If if you if you do want to be a content creator, how do I make money from it? And and that's what these um a lot of these social media applications are um what is the word? I want to say predator. Like predators. Um, because they know, okay, everybody wants to be a content creator. It's like the ideal job. I, you know, I can stay home and make money and and have my own hours and do whatever the fuck I want. They know that this uh younger generation is absolutely for that shit. They don't want to work for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:30

All they love is past money.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:31

Yeah. Um and and because their most of their attention is focused on social media, this is social media's way of um monetizing and manipulating them into becoming influencers and content creators, and then they lose the passion for the thing they originally started out doing. In this case, we're talking about cosplay. You you you lose the real reason why you got into this, and you become you become a mule for social media content. Become uh you think you're not working for somebody, but you are working for somebody.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:09

Oh child, say it again, say it again, say it again, say it again.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:13

You think you you are making your own schedule and you and you got your own time and all this stuff, but if you don't drop a TikTok or get live on on TikTok or drop this reel in the next uh 20 hours, you're not about to make this little chunk of change that you thought you was gonna make.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:36

Because you're not working for yourself, you're working for the algorithm that works for the company that made the algorithm. So you're working for the man, bruh.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:43

Exactly. And they punish you. They punish you, and if you've noticed uh Instagram about five years ago, how the algorithm was set up, it wasn't set up like how it is now.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:56

Was that before it was owned by Facebook? It's always been owned by Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:01

It's always been. It's always been owned by Facebook. The only difference is Facebook closed the reins before they had it. It was a partner, it was a sister company that was getting funded by Facebook. But then eventually Facebook was like, oh, okay, let's just go ahead and pull you back in. And now we're gonna control it all together. That's what bothers me about people saying, Oh, I'm not, I I don't, Facebook is for like old people or Facebook ain't nothing. I don't want to use Facebook because it doesn't do anything for me. I'm like, literally, you're doing the exact same thing. The only difference would be with your Instagram, if you click that little button next to what you post that says post it also on Facebook, you can literally triple the amount of people you're trying to reach, but you're doing 10 times more work trying to post all these videos on Instagram when you're gonna tire yourself out by the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:45

You are 100% correct about that. My I started my content on Facebook um because I didn't really like the how Instagram was set up to me. I didn't like how I had to crop my shit and all of that. I don't have an iPhone. So another thing, if you don't have an iPhone, Instagram's really not compatible for you, even till this day. I still have to download an app to crop my shit to put it on a fucking app. Four views. I have to do work after the work I did for my cosplay to put on.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:21

It's like it's ghetto. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:23

It's ghetto, it's ghetto, it's too much, it's too big.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:27

You know, so and um, but you're right. I have a higher following on Facebook, and I have Facebook and I had my cosplay pages the same year. Matter of fact, I have about plus 10,000 on Facebook and about, I don't know, 6,000 or something like that on Instagram, but you're completely correct. I have to do more fucking work on Instagram just to get maybe similar views on Facebook, and on Facebook because it's so global and it's been there so long, and I think more countries have more accessibility to Facebook, yeah, people will see my shit in fucking Africa. You know, so um, but with the generation though, it's more hip with the generation now for Instagram. And yeah, and uh, but to get back what I was saying, so social media punishes you for not posting your shit. Yes, and it and it they punish you more and more each year that passes. I would say around 2018, 2019, you post your stuff. It didn't, you didn't have to even really put hashtags, people were just gonna see your content because it was automatically gonna populate it to the system and people with similar interests were gonna like if you had fashion, your stuff was gonna populate in fashion, um, things like that. Now you have to, I have to. We all we all as cosplayers and content creators have to look at the fucking calendar. What day is the best day to post our content? What time is the best time to post your content? I want to do a cosplay today, but it makes no fucking sense because I have to wait until next freaking week to post the shit, otherwise nobody's gonna see it. And so they will see it.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:07

I mean, we we will all see it because you know we will be we'll be sitting here recording while you're not here, be like, oops, I don't know, drop a new one.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:16

But it it's you know, we we're basically doing this for free, um, you know, and we're not having anyone paying for our cost, please, like to the to the extent on what other content creators are having, money just thrown at us. All we really want, help us with our fucking supplies. That's all we try, that's all we need help with. We don't have to, I mean, that's all we want, is help us with our supplies, and we are literally spending we have one of the most uh expensive hobbies that we're doing just because it brings us joy. So we're we're creating content for you so that you can feel good and that we feel good that we make you feel something, but we're this is not free, this shit is expensive. We are karna and after paying our life away in this motherfucker just to make sure we can bring y'all some content and um and and with all of our efforts, it's still not enough because we have to battle social media just for people to see our shit, even our own followers that we've worked so hard to have, they can't even see our shit because it'll be so oversaturated, it's oversaturated, it's oversaturated, but also it's a pop it's a popularity contest on who already has a lot of views, so the so they're constantly recycling the same people who don't even need the content, who don't even need it. Matter of fact, they don't even if you do a little do a little uh project, if you don't mind. When you go and getting homework for Dr. Sion Day, so cosplayers that are I would say not as seen. We have to put hashtags just to be for people to see us on the explore pages. When you get to a certain level of followers, none of the motherfuckers ever use hashtags anymore. That is how you know they're yes, they've made it in the in the sense of social media, they've gotten to a pinnacle of clout or a pinnacle of IG success. They don't even need to do it. Hence, why the fuck do I keep seeing their face over and over again? Every time I'm seeing, let's say, Black Faye Day, or if I'm seeing a new video game and cosplayers are posting shit, I'm always seeing these top tier top-tier cosplayers, not because of content, but because of followers and money. And the little guys, us, we're not being exposed, or even people are just trying to just get into it, they're not getting exposure because you already have the people at the top constantly being recycled for content. So you're never really even going to see anything new with the niggas that's already up at the top. And if that's not fucking capitalism, I don't know what is.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:11

But you know what? So to speak to a lot of that, I one of the things that I've found that I have been able to do, and sometimes, you know, it takes work on a day-to-day, depending on, um, is that you just gotta say, fuck all that, really. Um, and when I talk to some of my some other cosplayers, you know, outside of you two amazing individuals in front of me, um, it's like they they I I tell I constantly like have this own, I constantly battle like this my own sense of imposter syndrome. I was like, I don't post that much. I don't post for some of the days. I don't always post for black. I think I've only posted for Black Fed once. Like, and I like there are so many different things that people post for that I just don't make posts for. Like, even for May the 4th or like Revenge of the Fifth, like I don't always post for those things. And that's partly because like one, I'm I don't, I don't have like the act the extra bandwidth to try and like ride waves all the time like that, but also it's something that all three of us have talked about in terms of our relationship to our cost is that we do it for ourselves, and I think me really doubling, tripling down, quadrupling down into quadrupling down into that. Um, is that when I do post like a work in progress pick or when I do post like a finished product or something I've been working on, it's mostly because I've done something that I'm proud of and that I I know I want people to see it, but I don't want them to see it that badly to the point where I'm like screaming into the void as to why the algorithm has not blessed me with the numbers and the lights and the follows.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:57

Side note, uh speaking of the void, uh it's opening up a new Black Faye is going to arise.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:06

More on those later. Um anyway, but but to kind of keep that in mind, like I'm I'm not uh I don't find myself ever being upset with the algorithm. I don't find myself being upset with like not having that at that many followers. I'm not finding myself being upset with not having that many likes because you know, once again, you know, hair flip when the girls hit the calm floor, the girls hit the calm floor and the girls who the girls who get it get it, and the girls who don't don't, period. But um there's something really essential about that like individual relationship with one's own cosplayer, at least that I know that I have, in terms of why the why that doesn't make a difference. Like I've been working on AlphaMod for forever. Like I and I have had like very large steps and also very small ones that have been really impactful because for me, it's one of the most intricate cosplays I know that I've ever done. And it's also one of the things that uh it's also one of those projects that I oh actually, best way to describe this. So I was uh showing one of my other cosplay friends some um, you know, some of the progress that I've been made on it. And like one of the things that I'll do more quickly than post like a work in progress picture is like just direct message people that I'm already friends with, like, oh yeah, this is the progress that I've made. Like I'll send Miss Gillos and Sion A like random pictures of what I've been working on before I even post it to my Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:33

I feel special.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:37

Like Suchi No Shogun and the rest of those, they will get this, they will get these pictures before anybody else does. And they'll get them and no one else will get them because I don't care about the approval about two, like the the masses outside of the people that I'm intimately involved with. And I was talking, I was showing her the the the pictures of it, and she's like, Oh, it's like, oh my god, like what con are you trying to have this ready for? And I was like, I'm I'm not trying to have it ready for a con. I I'm doing this for me. I want it to be it. If I do try and have it but ready for anything, it'll be in the winter because I'm not trying to be hot as fuck and a bunch of foam in the summer. But like, that's that that was that conversation for me that continued those kinds of like interactions with people that continue to solidify for me that this has always been about me. It's never been about anyone else, it's never been about um, it's never been about clout, it's never been about recognition, it's never been about um trying to get in articles and magazines. It's just been about my relationship to something that I like to do, which is create with my hand. And the more intricate the thing that I create, regardless of whether I'm fully satisfied with the finished product or not, is the most important aspect of that. And I think that social media takes that away from a lot of people because it almost puts that pressure on so many folks next to have to produce constantly. And in Suchino Shogun and I have talked about this in the past when it came to like trying to monetize my constant in some way. I don't like that pressure. I don't like it in normal everyday life because I think it's ghetto, but like to add it onto something that I thoroughly enjoyed to kind of for all intents and purposes disassociate from that would completely bastardize the concept altogether. And sure, it may not be that way for some people. Some people may like that pressure of having to produce. But from a, and this is you know me kind of moving into Professor McCoy mode, but like to from an ideological and psychoanalytic perspective, there there's like a large, there's a large kind of capitalistic drive behind that. And ultimately, it continues to create this like ever-widening gap, regardless of the pace at which it widens, between the person who creates the thing and the thing that they've created. Like if you initially think about cosplay as like uh as a hobby that one uses to enjoy themselves, as like being like one degree of separation away from them, like the the more pressure that is put on that hobby to be produced in a way that is for uh weight for as a form of like wage labor to continue to monetize and earn like this kind of uh capitalistic uh recognition in this larger society driven by how much you're able to produce of that thing, you become even more separated from it. And part of that separation comes from the fact that there becomes an intermediary between you and the thing that you're making, and that's the money, and that's the coin associated with it. And the more money accrued in relationship to that thing, and I'll kind of keep it contextualized to cosplay because I won't say that it looks the same across every single like interest or hobby or thing or whatever, but I would say that it does, but in very like meticulous ways, it doesn't. But specific but keeping it into context of cosplay, like the more money you put on the pressure of having something to actually put out there, the more difficult it becomes to put that thing out there. Because there is there is no I'm doing this for the joy of doing it. I'm planning, I'm going through this like meticulous and intricate and very personal planning process and this research process about this character, about how they look, about the colors I want to use, about the right, um, the right foam, the right build, the right kind of the right, the right way to build a harness, the right way to even pose for this character. Like it moves away from it, it takes all of that and it turns it into things that are calculable. And I'm of the opinion that once you start to put a dollar value on your personal life in that way, it continues to separate you from the more intangible kind of joy that's associated with the thing you're doing in the first place. Like if I have to, like it already costs to cosplay anyway, right? But if I'm putting a dollar value on what it looks like for me to produce a cosplay, to put on social media, to make sure that it gets to hundreds of thousands of people or even just thousands of people, so that I can get maybe a few cents on the dollar, realistically speaking, um that makes it that much more difficult for me to engage because now the thing that I'm closest to, because of just the raw, untempered feeling or emotion associated with it, now has a value put to it that is tangible for other people. And so once you make it tangible for other people, then it starts to become that much more um disassociated from you as a producer, as a person, like as someone whose life work is the craft that they have and not so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:06

Every single thing that you just said, I vibed with. Like it was like melody in my ears because that then you might be a communist.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:18

Which isn't a bad thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:20

I didn't podcast episode. Wow. But that is how I feel. That is how I feel. I have the biggest respect for people that do commissions because I could never fucking do it. Um, I can't tell you how many times I've turned down people saying, Kenny, please body paint me, I'll pay you. I'm like, no, I don't do it. I don't do it. I don't do it. Miss Skittles and the Black McCoy. When you put money, yeah, you're getting paid, but then it's like we already we I know we go through certain types of imposter syndrome. When money is given to us, then we have to we have to calculate our worth of a cosplayer, which we always devalue, always devalue. And then we have to calculate the materials needed. So either way, we will not be able to really calculate how much money we really fucking deserve. Me personally. I know so. I already know I'm like, I don't want that's just one part of it. Another part of it is that when you do commissions, you're working for someone else. It is no longer your craft, it is no longer your love, it is love lost and it's freedom lost. You're now on their time schedule, and now it's it's work. And I like knowing when I go to work, I'm gonna get my fucking paycheck in two weeks. I like that. I talk in, I talk out, I eat my lunch, and I go to fuck home, and that's it.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:47

You know, I do the thing I'm doing, I do the thing that I don't particularly care that much about that I get paid for and I leave.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:53

Right, you know, so and and that I I enjoy that because it is stability for me. When you work with clients, you don't know these people, you don't know what the fuck they want. And a lot of people are very demanding. Majority of people are demanding. You can do something to your best abilities, and they might tell you they don't fucking like it. And that for me is an issue. Not saying that I don't take criticism because I take criticism very well. And I love hearing the feedback from others so I can grow. The thing is that if you come to me for my craft and you're telling me, I don't like that. No, no, no, no, no. Fuck no. Don't don't be in my DL.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:30

Don't give a shit what you like.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:34

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:36

So I can completely relate to that because I was somebody who chose a profession where that happens every day. As a designer, you have opened yourself up for everyone's personal opinions and and um uh straight of like total vision, uh, their their their views. Uh it is you're you have opened yourself to um everyone's creative opinions or uh design ideas, and um whether you know you whether you go to school for it or not, this is something that you've been doing for years, and people will will tell you, um, that's cute and all, but I don't like it. Or that's not what I had envisioned. Or and and and uh I I deal with that enough on a regular basis, much less uh becoming commissioned somebody commissioned host like just for them to be like I didn't, I mean I was expecting this or or or to tell me that you know my scene ain't straight enough. Like, I I don't wanna I don't wanna deal with it. I don't wanna deal with it.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:51

Bitch, if it mattered, you would have learned how to do what you damn suffer.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:54

Exactly, exactly. And that brings me back to the point that I was gonna make earlier because I couldn't remember it. But the social media opens people up for the audacity. The audacity to tell me what I should cosplay next, the audacity to tell me what I can improve on, the audacity to tell me what would have looked better or what they would have done, even though they're not a fucking cosplayer.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:22

Uh like it's always detective and unmoistened.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:26

I've always noticed dry as a page. It's dry. It's dry as fuck. And it's just crazy to me who how many, how even when I'm sharing other cosplay, I will tell somebody in a heartbeat, if they come on my page and say, Oh, she this I'm sharing a cosplayer, not not my own, but this is somebody else's stuff. Um, and they'll come on, oh, this would have been perfect if she and I'll be like, if she uh did what? Because it's perfect the way it is. This is the way this person chose to cosplay this cosplay. You will not be on my page in my comments telling this cosplayer, even though she may or may not, or they may or may not even see the comment, but what you're not gonna do on my watch is tell somebody else how to cosplay or or what could have been better because who are you?

SPEAKER_04 1:53:19

Why don't you lose? Yeah, and it's always the niggas who got like a ghost account with memes and anime shit, and they're from the US, they like from fucking like some random ass country. I'm like, who are you? We don't even know who you are, like just some random, random person.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:38

That irritates my soul because there are cosplayers who will accept that, who will accept somebody else's random criticism, who will accept that, oh, this so-and-so told me, look, I I I did a poll and and y'all agreed that I should cosplay this character for what? No, I'm not. Um and and and when when you do that, it creates this um this, I guess, general consensus where oh well if I if I suggest that she should cosplay this, then I you know it's like live fan casting.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:13

That's what it is. That's exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:19

There are a few people who have like DMD characters, like, oh, I think you should cosplay this character, and I'm like, oh, okay, well, that's cute for you.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:27

You're gonna buy the shit for it.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:31

You're gonna pay for cosplay, I'm not better. Um, and and occasionally it'll sometimes it'll be a character that I might already be interested in. So lucky for them.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:40

But congratulations, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:45

That that's just another aspect of how social media um is pushing, pushing some of us in in a direction that we we never intended to go with our cosplay. Um, and and it's it's mostly you know for for recognition, for cloud, for for monetization, for um to be seen. And in some ways, I can understand it um because you know you want you want your you want your work put out, you want your hard work to be seen. Absolutely. But it's another thing to to um to do it for all of these reasons, ruin your whole your whole um passion for for something um because somebody else is pushing you to to do it a certain way. I want you to do it this way. And then you and then you you know you become tired of it, you become exhausted, it becomes this thing that you regret, or or you like the moment somebody mentioned is like it's like when you in college and you have you drink so much of this one liquor, and the moment you smell it, you like, hell no.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:05

Years later, you're like, oh no. I've been been there, done that, nope.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:13

Get that clear away.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:16

It's just unfortunate. Um, over I feel like over this pandemic in particular, that social media has turned um for a lot of us, I would say for us three, we are still on our path. Um, and we still enjoy our hobby. But for a lot of them, I don't, I honestly don't know if they enjoy it anymore. I I wonder, I do wonder, like when I see some of these content creators or cosplayers constantly pushing out stuff, are they happy with their end results? Are they happy?

SPEAKER_03 1:56:52

Did you happy?

SPEAKER_06 1:56:54

Yeah, yes, you got you got um 12k views on that particular transition, but are you happy with the outcome of what you create? Like, did you enjoy creating that? Exactly. Did you enjoy creating that when you made it?

SPEAKER_08 1:57:12

This very insidious part of social media that I don't think people acknowledge all of the time, or rather enough for my my liking, is the and uh it's about it's about to sound very extreme, but that's okay. I use extreme words to convey a very extreme point. It's uh it's a it's its own kind of enslavement. Um and I say that because a lot of how we view like influencer culture, how we view social media, is largely on the gratification of others and not always on the gratification of ourselves. And a lot of that is associated with this kind of and forgive me for saying it this way, but it's the most the the quick, most concise way I can say it, this kind of Michian transvaluation um from the people who um who do the influencing or do the producing having the power, having to appease the masses that quote unquote gave them that power, right? Yes. Um and it turns into, and just kind of speaking to people like, oh, you should cosplay this, Miss Skittles, it's like because you and it's it's kind of like this idea that because your your following or your followers or the people who give you all your likes and stuff um do what they do, you would not be who you are if it you would not be who you are, where you are if it weren't for them and their support, and blah blah blah. So you there's this idea that you kind of owe them something. It's like, no, you don't actually owe them anything. They came, they came here of their own accord, they came here without their input, they came here without you doing things for them specifically. And now, because they are here, because you reached this quote unquote status or quote like this level of cult or like um or um like social kind of um fuck, what's the word I'm looking for? I guess prowess or whatever, that now they are entitled to what it is you produce based on their input. Like their input is supposed to matter because what you do is for them is like, no, I don't do this for you. I've never done it.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:18

Exactly. That part. You I'm not doing this for you, and that's and that is the audacity. These are the audacity. I and I tell people all the time if you know when I get asked for interviews or do podcasts with people and they ask me, oh, you know, why did you get in cosplay? You know, why do you love it so much? What keeps you going? I it with me, I keep me going. It's the fans, no bitch. Yes, I I I do appreciate everyone's, you know, support. And I always tell people that. That are I make sure to tell people that because yes, while I do appreciate your support and your love and how you're you're continuing to share my cosplay um and like and and you know comment, all that engagement does mean something to me. But I don't start cosplays because of you. I don't I don't push content out because you know, because I need it. I needed that like. I because I don't. I when I started cosplaying, I started cosplaying for the the creative, it's literally a form of creative expression for me. And if you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. But I did not start this for you. I did not choose this character for you. I I'm doing this because it makes me feel the way. And if you like it, thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:50

I want to uh go back um to my thought that Miss Skittles reminded me of. Um, a lot of times as cosplayers, we do sink into that, you know, what next cosplay we're gonna do, what next cosplay we're gonna do. And then what ends up happening is that we have a creative block. And um then we're like, well fuck, I cosplayed all the cosplay the characters that I wanted to cosplay, like what the fuck am I gonna cosplay now? And um, and and then it could also because we're constantly putting out content, um, you know, especially if you're like a newer cosplay, you're like, oh, I gotta keep up with everybody else. So I need to constantly put out content every two weeks. There was a follower actually in 2019. I was like, you know you don't need to do this, right? And it was weird because I didn't it didn't click to me. They're like, no, you don't need to feel compelled to put out content every two weeks. Because I remember that when I was doing that, my numbers were going up and then my visibility was going up on Facebook. I'm like, oh, I guess this is what I need to do, and I like doing it, so why not? And they were like, I'm I'm just trying to give you a warning, you will burn yourself out. And I wish I remembered who that person was because it was such sound advice. And the cosplay I was in the beginning to the cosplay I am now is two completely different people because I'm like, I don't give a fuck now. Y'all niggas just gonna have to wait. Um, you're not y'all just gonna have to fucking wait for this content. I don't give a fuck if it's like, oh my god, Chinee, like, where were you all April, bitch? I wasn't there. That's why. Um, but I also noticed that when people ask me what's your favorite cosplay, I have a very difficult time giving an answer. And I didn't I didn't understand why. I didn't understand why I had such an issue answering it. I was like, I have cosplays I like, but I didn't really have cosplays I loved. Um, and I actually just got hit up, uh, you know, I don't I don't want to say it, but I'll I'll say it anyway. I got hit up to be a uh featured in a magazine. And and uh they asked me to send them pictures of my cosplay, and it had to be a certain resolution. I didn't know what the fuck DPI meant. I'm like, what the fuck is this? DPI and the shit like that. And they were like, you know, you gotta be poor baby.

SPEAKER_08 2:03:17

It's all right, girl. I don't know either.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:19

The fuck you're like, it gotta be at least 300 dpi. I'm like, okay, let me do that. So I was going through all my pictures, and I'm like, okay, this is this is this is good, you know, this is good resolution. No, bitch, this is 96 DPI. I'm like, bitch, I'm not gonna Yeah, you need to make that 300. I'm like, but I don't have a high definition camera, bitch. I got my phone. So um so I'm it forced me, it just happened like last week. It forced me to do research, but it also forced me to look at my pictures, which I never really do. Um, I you I usually take a picture, I post it, and if someone is asking for my possible page, I'll show them and whatever, but I actually don't ever really look and pay attention to my pictures after I post it to appreciate it. I never do. I just post them and just kind of it to the next one. And I've never done that until last week. So, like it has to be 300 dpi. I I figured out how to do the conversions online, which I can show y'all too, you know what I'm saying? If I want some high depth pictures, I could actually help y'all with that. But um I was able, I was able to convert all of my pictures that um that I cosplayed into uh a higher definition to be posted in a magazine. And it forced me to look at my work. I'm like, damn, actually actually pretty good. I was just not actually pretty good. But I never, I really just don't again, it is a preposterous. I'm like, yeah, it's cool, you know. At the time I'm hyped for the idea and I do the idea and then I move on to the next thing. Um, you know, I I just don't think about it really. I I really I don't even remember possibly as I did unless I scroll back. So it forced me to really go back and look at everything I did, and then to see it in high depth, I'm like, damn, like it's not Photoshop, like that's my body paint, like that's my makeup. And I'm just like, wow, this is wild to me. And I'm like, I do I do good work, and it's it's I feel like as cosplays, we don't really look at our shit. We really don't look like we look at it, but we don't really look at it. You feel me? Like we don't really look at the details, and even like for this particular um, you know, opportunity that I'm blessed with. I mean, shit, I don't care if it's a flyer, but for the for the reason that it made me focus on my work, I am humbly grateful for because that's something I've never done in my two, three years of actually cosplaying on social media. And I it is because of what social media does to us, that pressure of putting out content. And even though I don't do that anymore, psychologically, I kind of didn't even, it made me not care about what I originally cared for. I was so excited for the cosplays I put out in 2019 more than I am excited for the cosplays I put out now. And I'm I'm a much better cosplayer now than I was back then. And I appreciated my work more before I was more recognized on social media. And so social media is doing things to us that we don't even subconsciously know what's going on. And so, as cosplayers, as creators, not influencers, as creators of art, we really have to sit back and take the time to look at what the fuck we bring to the table because it is some uh amazing shit. And I really don't think we do that enough. Um, I don't think I I know a lot of musicians when they when they make their stuff, they're like, I don't even listen to my music. And and I didn't understand that until I'm doing my own stuff now. I'm like, I really don't look at it. And I think a lot of cosplayers don't really look at our stuff without criticism, without looking, oh my god, I should have done no no no no. Look at the brilliance you fucking made. No one made this. This is these are literally characters we thought about as children that we wanted to create and we be and we did it. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 2:07:25

Like, I just every time. I'm like, it's like y'all had it, it's like y'all had a child and y'all don't look at your child. I'm like, but you you made a baby.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:32

Look at look at it, look at it. Look at it. But I know I've I've hit a chord with Tiffany and the Blackboard Corey, because it's like, oh shit, we really don't. I'm like, we've we're cosplaying characters that we saw on TV, and I don't think our childhood self would be like, oh my god, we're gonna make that to the caliber that we made it. Like, we fucking made that, and so we have to really congratulate ourselves. And there's no amount of compliments someone else can give us because anybody can give us compliments, but this is us like we made this out of our my hand, like that that sounds bit my hands created this, my hands created this and um it's it's emotional, it's uh it's an emotional um epiphany to to see where we are now. Like I would I I wish the elementary school, middle school Sine could see who I am today. Like, I would I would probably like burst out crying because I would never in a million years imagine I would be here.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:43

Girl, you getting y'all emotional you're getting a mystic. I'm just thinking about it, like, yes, like what if little me saw me now? Like, uh you got me quiet.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:59

Yeah, it's um it's special, and we have to really like sit back and we're like our own idols. Can you imagine? Like, damn, like that's some big shit. Like we're our own idols, like we're the person that like if we walked into high school, we'd be like, Can I have your autograph? That's some big shit.

SPEAKER_08 2:09:24

That's that's I mean when you put it that way, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:27

Right, but it's true, you know. I I think because everything about life beats us down, and our confidence, our confidence is given to us and instilled in us at a young age. And if we're not instilled with that confidence from whoever we're supposed to get it from, it passes on to our adulthood, and it's very hard for us to really we we can learn to kind of sometimes fake confidence, but to actually really believe I can fake confidence all the time, I do all the time, but to to but to actually believe the confidence that I'm exuding is uh is a very exhausting daily task.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:08

And we have to really pay homage to ourselves to see how wonderful creators we are, instead of letting society or even people close to us dictate what the fuck we should do or how we should do it. And we have we can we can never forget that. And I think that alone, if we can just kind of sit back and rem remind ourselves why we started it in the first place, because it wasn't to be where we are now, it was just oh, we just want to try this thing just to be cool and different because we like it. I don't think we ever knew we were actually gonna work hard to be at the level of craftsmanship that we are now, and we're not even we haven't even peaked. This is not even our final form.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:55

Right, you know, so I don't think we should go any further because she kind of made everybody start the tear now.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:04

Uh yeah, um, yes. Bam, all right, okay.

SPEAKER_08 2:11:15

All right, let me pull the gangster back out.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:18

Yeah, okay. Hold on now, hold on.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:23

So to wrap up this episode, I think um, I think a lot of, I mean, obviously a lot of things were said, but I think a lot of things were learned as each of our cosplayers or our panelists have said, you know, there are different things that each of us have said that have given us another opportunity to look at not only where we are as it between the cosplay and social media, but also give those who are listening a different perspective, looking at it a different way. What is wrong, what is right, what can be done better? Um, and then if you're losing all faith and all hope, I believe Sonic cosplay definitely. Gave you something to really think about that could help you refocus. Honestly, and without me going into anything else, I think there's a lot of cosplayers who have lost, who, as I said earlier, have lost their path as it pertains to worrying about being an influencer or worrying about being, you know, a, you know, a famous, if they were to take that advice the science just gave and kind of revisit why you're doing this. What was the reason you took that first step? What was the reason you made that first outfit, made that first wing, put on that paint, use that makeup. Instead of putting on regular makeup, you added a little bit, something, something, you turned yourself into someone else. Why was it? What was the reason that you do that? And if you can find that core, I think you can revert back to kind of that Puritan that you were, that pure entity, uh, that pure cosplayer that you started as. But without going too further back into the topic, let's go ahead and wrap up this episode. Uh, thank you all for listening. Thank you all for uh being a part of the Blur Spectrum Podcast for another week. Uh, of course, as always, you can, you know, contact each and every one of us collectively or individually. Uh, collectively on the Blurred Spectrum Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube now. Uh, we have a lot of different videos uh from cons that we're going to be shooting, a lot of different interviews that we're gonna be doing. Uh, so you can now find us on the Blurred Spectrum Podcast YouTube channel. Uh, the purpose of this is so you can, you know, one, see the people who have been talking to you for the past two years, uh, but also kind of get an idea of what we're talking about when we say uh these cosplayers have phenomenal skills and among other things, but that's one of the main reasons. Um uh you can also reach out to us via our mailbag, the Blurred Spectrum Podcast at Ermals.com. Um, if you want to contact me, uh Suchi underscore no underscore so shogun uh on Instagram as the Black McCoy mentioned or Kaze mentioned in one of previous episodes. Suchi is spelled T-S-U-C-H-I, just in case you couldn't find me. Not that I was looking for you or you were looking for me, just saying that's how you spell it. Um uh also uh how can you be found Sayone Cosplay?

SPEAKER_04 2:14:09

Sayone cosplay on Facebook, Sayone underscore cosplay on IG, Sayone period cosplays at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:18

Uh, how can you be found found the black McCoy?

SPEAKER_08 2:14:22

Um, I can be found at the blackmacc on Instagram, the black mccoy cosplay on Facebook, as well as not black by choice on Instagram, as well as on Facebook and www.notblackbychoice.com.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:37

And how can you be found, Ms. Skittles?

SPEAKER_06 2:14:41

Uh you can find me, Ms. Skittles, uh Ms. Skittles T R underscore cosplay on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, and then um M-I-Z Skittles2K02 on Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:58

Right. Um, oh wait, where are we? We we are on Twitter too, but that's beside the point. Um we also are starting a uh Blurred Spectrum podcast TikTok. The purpose of this though is for you to find an easier place to see our interviews and our different conversations. Um, I don't know if Sionay, Miss Kittos, and the Black McCoy are gonna be dancing. I'm not gonna be dancing. I'm not about to dance.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:20

Oh, you do a no damn dancer.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:24

But uh, so you know, if it's it's just a little easier place to find us uh outside of YouTube. Um, and of course, on other social media platforms will be some of our videos and interviews that we do. Uh, as we introduced uh in our last second to last episode, uh, we have a new panelist, um uh Lady Keaton. Was that what it was? Yeah, Lady Yes. Um, and uh she will be you know aiding us in enhancing our visibility on certain platforms. So be excited about some of the videos that we have coming, uh coming soon. Oh, also I'll probably get in trouble if I don't do this. I can also be found on Blur Creations um on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Um, we actually have a couple of new collaborations coming out in the next month or so. Somebody is about to be hyping up Leo season to the nth degree. So I hope you're excited and I hope you're ready. Um, but that's all I'm gonna say about that. Uh other than that, um Leo here.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:21

We all know because you know, are you sure?

SPEAKER_08 2:16:24

Because I'm pretty sure I forgot.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:26

You forgot?

SPEAKER_05 2:16:26

No, Leo will be like, I'm a Leo just you forgot. Well, honey.

SPEAKER_08 2:16:36

The reminders are coming.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:38

The reminders are coming. I've already been on Twitter, like hashtag Leo season coming, okay? Wow, it's June. Exactly. Get ready. Get ready.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:50

Um, yes, we are doing a collaboration with our fellow Leo. I ain't gonna say anything else about it, but it's coming soon, so be prepared. As I was saying, we also have cons coming up in the next month. You will definitely see the Blurred Spectrum Podcast back at Blurred Con 2022. So I hope you're excited. Come and visit us, talk to us. Um, we will announce the topic in up the upcoming week, so be excited. Um, uh, but other than oh, and then of course our other panelists who was here earlier, the doctor, uh, he had to run out really quick, but he can be found Rod RT on Facebook. Uh, other than that, thank you all for joining us and listening. Um, and as I always say, Sayonada.