SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hello everyone, and welcome back once again to the Blur Spectrum podcast. We have finally entered into our melanated solstice. That is right. It is that time of year again where we bring forth everything black, beautiful, melanated, carob coated, and all things black spectacular. This year, we are starting off our melanated solstice with another black artist episode. We have some amazing artists here for y'all today. And we have some really interesting and fun questions that we are going to throw their way. So they may not be ready for them. They may actually be ready for them, but who knows? We'll see what they say. So I want to go ahead and start by introducing myself, your host, the Black McCoy, the one, the only, the blue fur fatty. And we also have uh Sionic Oswald.

SPEAKER_07 0:51

I'm here, y'all. I'm gonna show up in like one second. I'm here.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

She's probably playing around in like a bunch of colors.

SPEAKER_07 0:57

You know, that's just oh my god. I ain't gonna be a no damn body hate today.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

All right, and as far as our artists we have today, first we have Kevin Hunt.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Hey everybody, um, Kevin Hunt. Um you can find me on IG under Kevin Hunt1977. Um yeah, uh I do cons. Sorry, this is my first interview, so I'm a little annoyed. No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

It's more like a panel style, so you're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Um I do cons. Um, I do illustrations, um, I do stencils to spray paint. Um I draw a weird little worm that wears a kango like me. Um and yeah, that's about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

All right, thank you. And next we have Michaela Moore.

SPEAKER_06 1:50

Hi, hello. It's a pleasure to see you. Pleasure to see all of you and meet all of you formally. Um, my name is Michaela Moore. Artistically, I go by Makin Art or Makin163 on Instagram. I don't know how to change my name on Zoom, so I'm gonna figure out a way to get you that information.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Don't worry about it, it's all right.

SPEAKER_06 2:10

I am a I am a full-time artist. I do commissions and character design illustrations along with conventions as well. So I have a few lined up for this year, and that's and I'm in the process of working on some original content as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

So phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

All right, and next we have Mike Howell. How's it going, you guys? Um, I'm I too uh am nervous, and this is my first interview as well. So I mean, kind of don't know what to say. Mike totally fine. Mike, Mike Howell. Um, you can get me at um uh Michael underscore howell art uh on Instagram and uh MichaelHowellArt.com as well. Check out some of my stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

And last and certainly not least, we have C DubArt.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Hey, what's going on, guys? Uh my name is Chris Williams. Uh yeah, I go by C DubArt Online. Um, this is not my first uh interview, but you know, I still get nervous like everybody else. You know, that's how it goes. Um, it gets easier, but at the same time, you know, this is what you gotta do. You gotta promote yourself. Artists are notoriously not that great at promoting themselves. So we, you know, we're all in that same boat there. But um, yeah, I uh go by C DubArt Online. I have my website, cdubart.com. Uh just Google C DubArt, you'll see all my stuff there. It's the same IG, all those socials. Uh, I have an original uh comic series called Summons. Uh so it's kind of like a supernatural comic in the same vein of like uh Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it mixed with like uh Dark 90s image, spawn, witchblade, darkness type stuff. Um, I'm also working on a comic called Tribal Force that's coming out soon. Um, it's like the first all Native American uh superhero team. Um really proud of it. Um there is uh there's a show on FX called Reservation Dogs. Like one of the uh actors of that, John Proudstar, is the owner. And uh he's he's uh got me to do that for him. Uh yeah. So other than that, I'm doing conventions. My next one coming up is C2E2. And uh yeah, that's what I do all around. Full-time artists as well. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

We got some really nice tier people here, y'all. Like telling y'all, every time we pull back around with one of these melanined solstice episodes, we get like the the cream of the crop on our episodes. It's a nice that's amazing. All right, so let's let's let's get this kicked off. I want you all to just kind of be able to relax. It's really just kind of us sitting around talking. So, uh, my first question um for you all. I'll give you some time to think about it before I pick who I want to answer first. Um, my first question is when did you begin to discover yourself as an artist? And when did you become aware of yourself as a black artist? And what did that mean to you? Let's start with uh Michaela.

SPEAKER_06 5:03

Oh, jeez, okay. Um so this may be lengthy, so I'm I will apologize, but um I first discovered that I really wanted to do art full-time. Um, I was in first grade. Um my dad had drawn a picture of Jesus on a horse, and it was really, really good. And I was like, oh wow, okay, that'd be I want to do something like that. So I would redraw that picture like all the time to get it as close as I could to what he did. And then when I was in third grade, um I used to draw like little comics. I think one in distinct like one I distinctly remember was um I drew Firest yeah, Firestar from Spider-Man and his amazing friends uh chasing the green goblin. And she hit him with his fire and he turned to ash. Oh and it made my and it made my mom laugh really, really hard. And I was like, I want to do this forever. So that was that. So that made me want to do it for real, for real. And then when I got older, I started reading manga, I read Dragon Ball, and I was like, oh, I want to keep, I really want to keep doing this. So um, what made me realize that I am a black artist, that was actually fairly really recent. So I started working at conventions and I had a lot of moms coming up to me with their kids, like young daughters, and they were like, She's doing this, you know, and you know, moms, they typically they they'll they might have an idea as to what it is or what I do, but they really won't have the answers, like what to do to tell their kids like, hey, this is what you need to do in order to do what she's doing. So I do my best to try to give them that answer, but like the significance of me being black doing that never really hit until it was other black moms bringing their black daughters up to me. And it's just like it's always it's always their daughters, and I'm like, oh man, that's a lot of pressure. I don't know what to tell this child.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

It's just like oh shit, I'm a role model.

SPEAKER_06 7:13

What do I say? I gotta say the right thing, but it hit me. I was actually watching um his name is FD Signifier now, but it used to be, I think it used to be F Peak Signifier on YouTube. He was like, when you are creating, what you are selling to your non-black audience is your blackness, no matter what it is you're creating, and what you choose to do with that, that that part is completely up to you. And so I thought about it, I'm like, well, what if well, what's the change I'm gonna make? Like, probably not like I probably won't make any changes based on that information, but I'm just now understanding like this is the facet. Like when people look at me that's not us, they're gonna want to see my blackness first, and I love that. I think that's fantastic, and I won't it won't change my creation process at all, but I have all the pride in the world saying telling people, yes, I am a black female artist out here doing the thing and trying to make myself known out here. I want to be up there with everyone else, so and I want other black girls to look at black children as a whole to look at it and go, yeah, she can do it, I can do it too.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Period. We love to we love to see it.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

See up, see the art. What about you? When did you discover yourself as an artist and when did you realize you were a black artist?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Uh okay. Um, well, well, let me see if I can uh follow up uh those eloquent words with the time. Um I mean, like, yeah, she is it's kind of actually pretty similar. Like I get asked that question all the time, and I always say it's like since since I developed digits, you know, like since since I developed fingers, I've been I came out the womb with a pencil, you know.

SPEAKER_08 8:51

Uh and uh I know hey look, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

I didn't even be my mom, yeah. But anyway, um at least my head wasn't that big, but um, at least not until I got older. But um, but yeah, uh I started like really young just with an interest in drawing. Um my my father um is a musician and also an artist. Um I got an uncle who was an artist, uh great uncle who's an artist, so I was kind of in there. And um I remember uh when I was younger, there would be like these little competitions at like a local bookstore. Um, and uh my mom would like help me enter into them when she saw that I was interested. And I remember one particular one there were I was drawing uh on paper plates uh Disney characters. Um and my mom wanted to see, okay, let's see if he's really interested, see if he follows through. I drew them and she almost got mad at me because she thought I traced. Um, and I and I couldn't trace because they weren't the same size. Um, so so that's when I kind of knew, and I won the competition, and uh that's when I I kind of knew, like, okay, well, you know, this isn't only something that I'm I'm interested in, but there's also something that I'm good at. Um, so yeah, let me just keep feeding that bug. Uh yeah, so it kind of snowballed from there. Um when I first realized that uh I was a black artist and the significance of that, um that's really weird because I feel like it's uh like I'm still realizing it. Um it's it's an ongoing process and I I get it in spurts when I meet people, um, depending on the project that I'm involved in. Um I notice that there is always some facet that reminds me of my blackness. Not to say that I ever was trying to avoid it or or not look at it, but it it's like it's ever present. And um and like I started getting the same thing where I would get, you know, um families, black families coming up to me at conventions and stuff like that. And you know, the little boys or girls, whatever, just wanted to learn how to draw, wanted to learn what I wanted to how I did things. And um it was it was surreal because I just wasn't used to giving that kind of feedback. I wasn't used to people wanting that feedback from me. Uh I was I was just so insular and into my lane, you know, as the quintessential black nerd that I I didn't think that I was supposed to give any advice to anyone. I didn't think that that was for me. So realizing the power and in the creativity and the influence that you have, that kind of helped me realize my blackness and the significance of that. Uh I'm just fortunate that like I can actually have anything to say to anybody. So yeah, I guess that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 11:49

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Glad I wrote these existential questions. Uh uh, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. What about you? When did you first discover that you're an artist and when did you realize that you're a black artist and the kind of gravitas behind what that means?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Uh I I could always draw. Um, I was always in like uh the classes with like uh like my friends were always like Asian and stuff like that, and they would always show me Sig Mario Dragon Ball Z stuff or you know, whatever animes and mangas and stuff like that. Um and uh they would draw it all the time, I remember, and they would trace it. And I would think it'd be cool if you didn't have to trace, if you could just do it yourself. And something intuitively in me just tried it and it worked out. And then before I knew it, I had a crowd of people around me at like the table in like second grade. I was like, all right, I guess I'm good at this. Like, all right, you know, uh every teacher told me that I would be great at painting. I never, but I never knew how to do it, and I thought I would be awful at it. And I tried it a few times and it never worked out well. Um I went to like a really bad breakup, and I think at that point, I was like, all right, I'll just I'll do whatever at this point. Like I just kind of channeled everything in that direction, and it just happened and worked out. Um I think I the first painting I I made, I uh I put it on like Facebook or something like and it wasn't to like sell, it was just I was so happy to see something that I completed. I just put it out there, hey, look what I did. And somebody messaged me like 20 minutes later, like, how much is it? And I was like, wait, what? Well, if you ask, I thought about how much my cell phone bill. I was like, Yeah, it was 80 $80. You know, that and from and at that point it just kind of grew from there. Um, in terms of uh, I guess being a black artist, I don't think I realized uh maybe impact or things like that. And I I got like a phone call. Uh I'm from New York and I grow up in New York at the time that I grew up in it, uh wasn't so quote unquote cool, I guess, to be an artist. Uh so I used to like sneak around with my sketchbook. Like I never I don't remember ever like just walking around. Like I walk around with it now. Like I'm an adult grown man. I walk into the crow with a sketchbook. And just because I might need to, you know, drop something down, whatever. Uh but I remember like having to kind of hide that. And when I left New York, I moved to Atlanta. And when all this stuff kind of happened, uh, you know, I left, I guess maybe a different lifeline. I don't know. Uh but I got a phone call from some of my buddies from back in New York, and uh it was really random. Like I could tell they were gathering wherever, um, whatever Log Hood hallway, and they called me. They FaceTime, it was like a group FaceTime call, and they were like, yo, we're so proud of you. Like we like we love seeing your work, we love that you're doing this, like you make us so proud, and so on and so and like uh I remember that being like a defining moment. I was like, oh shit, like people are watching me, but like I guess this shit matters to more than just me. That's kind of cool. Uh I think I I think to answer the question, yeah. I think that was the moment that had become at least a parent.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

That's pretty cool. So it's it's it's interesting just like just so far the responses, it's like there's always been this moment of like you're in the early stages of being an artist, of like drawing, creating. It's always like, oh, I'm off doing this by myself. And then you have that weird moment where you look up and you're like, Why are y'all looking at me? It's like, oh, oh, you can you can see me doing the things over here but I was by myself and paying attention to what I was focused on, but people were standing behind me and looking at me. Which is really cool, right? Um, it's kind of this natural exhibitionism that comes along with artistry. It's kind of inherent being seen by others without being recognized and by without recognizing yourself being seen by other people, which is cool. All right, Kevin, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Um yeah, I guess since I was a kid, like I used to watch like like I'm I'm probably a lot older than you guys, but um I used to watch Bob Ross like all the time. Um as if it was like one of my regular cartoons I watched. Like I had to make sure I watched Bob Ross. Um even though like I didn't really paint, it just made me want to draw all the time and stuff. Um and then getting comics. Um I remember my mom, my first comic was uh um, it was like a DC comic that my mom had found for me somewhere, and like I thought it was super rare. It was like people do this, like so like I would just like draw what I saw in there like all the time, and then um I would like record stuff on the VCR and pause it and then record it. I still have somewhere like the X-Men cartoons, like drawings that I would do, and I would just pause it and you know, like once you unpause, once the um till the pause runs out on it, it just stops the tape. Oh, I forgot. So yeah, um, and then just coming to school, drawing all the time, and kids would be like, oh, draw me this, draw me that, and stuff like that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

So what about when you realized you were a black artist? What about that part?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Um, couple of times, actually, like, because I kind of ignored stuff. Like my aunt would tell me stuff. My aunt like who helped raise me, um, she would tell me stuff all the time, but I was a little knucklehead, so it'd be like, okay, thanks. Let me watch my cartoons or eat my pancakes. And um there was one time I was working at this coffee shop, and so all the uh this is around the time when Boondocks was getting big and uh for the comic strip and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

And for the TV show, because I remember.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah, the comic strip. And I would sit on my lunch break and draw in a coffee shop, and we had regular customers, and then like pretty much it was all white white people. Uh they would come in and just be like, Are you that guy who draws the draws up like no I'm not ever look anything alike? No, you guys just literally just see a black person, and that's with a console, you just think we're all the same. Um yeah, and um when I was um I was working at a nonprofit, um, and I was one of the teacher assistants there, and it was just like it was great to see other little black kids who was interested in art and stuff, and it was just like yo, like you guys can do this, like you don't have to have the most expensive things, you don't have to have like your name and face everywhere, just straight up do your art and do what makes you happy and stuff like that. So, yeah, and it was just great saying like black kids want to do this.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

No, that's funny. Like, that's actually uh something that I really think about like consistently because I remember when I was young, I like I drew a lot. I I still draw from time to time, mostly when I'm like sketching out a cosplay idea, but not too much more outside of that. Like I used to draw a lot. Like I also used to be that kid where like people would come to me to draw things for them. I had to do I between elementary school and high school, I had I helped many people get their projects done because they needed some sort of graphic. They were like, oh, what's the one we can turn to to have them draw stuff? And after, like, you know, as I got older, like and my life moved in different directions, and you know, I still would do it, you know, it's therapeutically or you know, just because I felt like it. And um, so it's it's really beautiful to hear that that's kind of something very ubiquitous about starting art very, very young in life. That as that kind of as that spark really just hits you in the way that it does, and you kind of start creating things from start creating things from your mind's eye, it just becomes this like astonishing talent to everyone else. But it feels just like a regular like extension of self for like everyone individually. It's like, oh, it's it's it's something that's fun and something like intuitive to me as a person, but everyone else is like, oh, look at this like fresh new thing that's sitting in front of me, this talent that I don't have. Um, but a lot of you kind of talk a lot about just the the family environments around what it has looked like for you to develop as artists. So, my next question for you all is that you know, taking art seriously as a craft is something that um not a lot of black families make a habit of. Um, so have you experienced like any lapses in support in terms of like your artistic pursuits? And you know, even if you didn't get that, like even if you didn't have that like a support from like family, um, did you get any like pushback from any other aspects of your support system? Um so let's start with uh C Dub. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Um I don't think I ever got any pushback from my family or friends. They were very supportive. I guess the only pushback I got was in like specific uh specific pieces or or types of art that I would do. Um where I would suddenly get, I got to the point where I started to get feedback where people would email me. And um, yeah, I I I started to get some pushback from there where like someone either just didn't, I guess you would call them haters. I don't know. Um, but like, yeah, they would they would uh they they would criticize my art. Um they would say, you go you you copied off of this or you you plagiarized this, you know, not knowing that no, I didn't. It's just and it almost like it brought me back to like the instance where I was drawing those Disney characters where uh uh my mom almost thought I was uh tracing. Uh so it's like I guess that's a compliment, but at the same time, you don't feel like explaining that to people all the time. You just kind of want to do your thing. It kind of takes the joy out of it. Um, you know. Uh, but then I also start getting uh like uh pushback from people about you know the the content of my art. Or you know, like this is like certain, you know, I'm I'm a nineties comic book artist, so like some of the characters I'll draw, you know, are like you know, my ladies are a little voluptuous, you know, and my my My men are very pretty. Um, you know, so like I uh one of my associates that helps me in cons, he always says it's like he like Chris draws equally pretty people.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

Um have another universe over here, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Yeah, yeah. It's like and like uh as I've gotten older, I I did kind of take note of that because I started to like you know put some like diversity of like books and shapes into my art. Um but uh comic books in themselves are like idealized forms of uh of of a certain of like average human being. So that was kind of my thing that I got into. Um but yeah, I started getting some pushback where um you know people were just like saying, like, I I don't like that. I don't like what why why are why are they doing that? Why are they wearing that? Or like why is this why is their shirt torn and stuff like that? I'm like you you should see this piece over here. This is nothing, this is terrible. Why are you spending so much time focused on this right here? Like, look, you can look at all of this, and and then all of a sudden it would just become this really intrusive and weird exchange. And then uh, and then all of a sudden they started attacking uh aspects of who I was. They didn't even know me. Like it I just like had some really weird um exchanges that way, and and it's funny because um like I'll I'll draw commissions for people. There was like a a married couple who wanted a Resident Evil piece, and you know, one of the uh Right Michaela, I had the same reaction, excuse me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, you know, so they wanted uh, you know, the characters uh Claire and uh and um and uh Leon. Um and and uh I think her shirt was torn. But this one person uh emailed me and just fixated on that, and then it devolved into and I said, look, this is for someone else that says nothing, this wasn't even my taste, but they're a customer and that's what it is. And then it just evolved into them like calling me weird names and it got racial for some reason, and but then it's like assuming, like, yeah, I'll I'll bet you you like you would do that because like I told them I'm like, look, I'm like, ma'am, it is Black History Mom. I have time for okay, like let's just go. Also, like at the time, my mom had just passed, so I'm I was like in a really weird spot where I just like uh nothing, and then she just started saying, like, oh yeah, well, I'll I it's not surprising that you're that you're black, and like, what does that have to do with anything? I'm like, well, it's got kind of has to do everything with everything, but whatever. Um, so yeah, I I've had it like to digress, I've had exchanges like that that just kind of threw me for a loop, but then I started realizing, okay, like some of that stuff is par from the course, and you just gotta roll with it. Um, but for the most part, uh, I've had a pretty extremely um supportive community, and I'm pretty thankful for that.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Excellent, excellent story. Um, Mike, similar question. Like, have you experienced any sort of like pushback from you know various aspects of your life, friends, family, or even just you know, response from you know, not people you don't even know? What does that look like in existing as an artist out there?

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I think uh my mom did like a great job of making me making us feel like we could do anything we wanted to be, you know, do anything we wanted to do when we grow up or be who we wanted to be. Um, but I think it was more like subtle. Like I would mention being an artist, and she would be like, I'll make too much money, like maybe be an architect, you know. Alright. What's that? You know, uh I remember my mom doing stuff like that, but I think like subtly that affected me. Like I, you know, I I remember uh the concept of an of being an artist, I remember feeling uh it's like far-fetched. Like it didn't seem like something that was like I could make a reality because of stuff like that, like comments like that or whatever. And it wasn't a knock on my mom, she was she was doing the best she could with the circumstances, it was just her, you know. Uh and so when I made the decision to become one, I was much older. I had already moved to Atlanta. I was um, you know, I was taking care of myself. At that point, I could make what I could do whatever I wanted to do, you know. And so when I made the choice, uh she wasn't against it. I remember her just but like her tone certainly suggested it, you know, like what you wanna do. Uh all right, maybe if that's the if that's what you got. Pretty much. Uh went to school, you got student homes, you know. Uh my when I moved to Atlanta, my dad actually lives out here, and we were trying to kind of re-establish a relationship. Uh, and I, you know, at this point I'm 26-ish. And you know, I'm uh he had I remember he like tried to have like a serious like man talk with me. He was like, What do you want to be? Like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I think I'm I think I'm gonna do this art thing, like for real or whatever. And he was like, because we hadn't, especially since we hadn't had that like uh that close a relationship uh prior, uh you know, his reaction was very visceral. He's just like, you wanna do what? Would you play with crayons? Get out of here. And I remember that that like hit me, and like I was like, all right, man. Like at that point, I was like, I'm just gonna go back to my house, I'm gonna just bugger down and I'm gonna figure this thing out. I think at that point I had to make peace with just like the idea of maybe potentially being like a starving broke artist, maybe not selling anything, but like being content with that, that being a potential reality, you know?

SPEAKER_08 27:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Um yeah, I think I think those are like two or three, like maybe comments I can think of that happened that like could have maybe altered the trajectory of things, but ultimately it didn't.

SPEAKER_04 27:42

So what do you think made you double down on exactly what you wanted to do with your art?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I would look for jobs and I realized I didn't want to do anything like that. You know, I'd be always I'd be on a deed or I'd be like outside in the world and see like help one of us. I was like, I don't want to do any of this shit. Like, you know, and I think uh it was a woman, it was a woman I was dating at the time, actually. Shout out to black women because they fire. Uh and I I remember I was talking, we we were having like a serious conversation about what I wanted to do. And I was like sketching as I was talking to her, and she was like, Well, maybe you should be this, and I was like, you know, and well, maybe be a firefighter, like a barber, you'd be an ill barber, you have a good like barber look to you. I guess and at one point she looked down and she was like, Why don't you just do that? And I was you know, I looked at when I was sketching and I was like, Oh, they don't make money, and she was like, So what? All right, like you know, all right. That was it. Got the affirmation you needed, so you that was it true? That was it.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

That's that's phenomenal. Sometimes that that little so what is just the push that you need to go in the direction that you knew you always you were already trying to go in in the first place.

SPEAKER_07 29:03

Yeah, I agree 100%. Uh support is massive, especially when you're an artist. Um, you know, we can always say, oh, we have the confidence to just do it on our own. But because it's not something that is equally celebrated, especially in our community, like really celebrated, it's very easy to uh back down. So without support from somewhere of some kind, as artists, we are our own worst critic. We already criticize everything we do, and we kind of naturally compare our work to other people, which often holds us back from us being, even though no one can really do what we do. No one can do, or they we might draw something or we might cosplay something, but no one can replicate what we do because it's a really half of our personality and all of our being into that particular aesthetic. So we just need some type of support um just to kind of step out of it. And if we don't get it, more often than not, we're not gonna do it. Whether it's, you know, parents or loved ones saying, you know, I love what you do, you have talent, but it's not gonna make money. Which in hindsight, they're not wrong in a way. So um my my mom, you know, I remember I used to always draw uh when I was younger. I think I was uh in kindergarten and I won like a competition, uh, it was like a fair housing uh competition for Howard County in Maryland. And I was like the youngest one that won. And all these older fifth graders are like, you're not, you're young. What do you know? You just came out of kindergarten, you know. But it was cool that it pumped up my head, and my mother always put me in art classes. But when I when she asked me, you know, what do you want to do? Um, I was like, I really love art. I want to be an artist. And she's like, I mean, that's that's cool, but you know, you know, and um in retrospect, uh, I but she was always very supportive of my art. Um anytime I, you know, she always constantly put me in art classes. So she was fueling my body, like fueling my soul to still don't lose that that passion, but kind of like find a career that's gonna pay the pace. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, you know, I I understand. And to be honest, like I always feel like if I were to have children, I'd be like, baby, please do art if that's what you want to do, have a plan B as well, just in case. So I I'm more like I would I would say like when it comes to the now of how society is uh with this pandemic, because we're not even in post-pandemic yet. Um, and then also with inflation, things are incredibly expensive for people, even in the medical field, stuff from the medical field. So it's it's it's insane. So I understand having a plan B for everything. Like if you want to be, even if you're a scientist, you still have to have a plan B. So even those uh occupations that quote unquote cost a lot of money, or sorry, not cost a lot of money, but will give you a lot of money in return, you still need to have a plan B because you never know what's gonna happen. But art is just so powerful and it's so important. Um, I love seeing little black kids that are inspired to do what I do or inspired to do what other people do because they didn't have that support and they didn't even know that they could even do this. Um, and it's so important seeing black faces, seeing black beings and other kids or even other older adults that were uh discouraged and now they're in like their 40s, like, damn, I could do this now. Like, yeah, it's cool. It's cool now. Yeah, it's cool. So um support is is key. Uh I don't I don't care what anyone says. You have to have support, support from somewhere because your passion will only get you so far if you're gonna constantly get brought down by comments because words do hurt. Um, you know, we love taking criticism to better ourselves, but constructive criticism. So it just has to be positive from some angle. We don't care if it's from our mom, our spouse, from our partner, our friend, but just one voice. And, you know, for you, um, you know, Mike, that one voice was a pivotal uh change for you. And that's very important. So it doesn't take much, you know, we just need to kind of get out of our head for a second.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

In my head there, because I think what you just said was really important and and um something that we don't really think about too much because I think it's indicative of like black culture and just like our people overall. Um, we we need a lot of encouragement um because like just historically we've been in kind of like this survival state. And I think a lot of us don't realize how much we've been in that and how that's impacted, just how we as black people think, how we think as a community, how we uh deal with ourselves, what we think of ourselves, what we think of each other. Um encouragement is so important, and I think that's why like I think we're starving for it, which is why, like on the opposite end, if we don't get it, you know, unfortunate things can happen. You know, because like that's how important a support system is. And and there's a lot of us are are are lacking that through no fault of our own. And uh it's it's it just kind of goes to show that, like, yeah, you get that one word of encouragement that you weren't even really banking on or thinking of it. It's like, well, why weren't you even thinking? Why weren't you even banking on it? Why weren't you even expecting encouragement? Like that says a lot about you know us as a community right there, and uh you know, like no one else is gonna key in on that for us, so we gotta do it. And so, like, yeah, I'm I'm happy to be in the presence of of uh people who have gotten that. That's great.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Absolutely, it's it's extremely important, and it's funny because between um Sayone and Mike, uh just the idea that you know it's funny to like know that we see black art and black artists as like these really important figures, just in terms of our our history, our community, our culture in one regard. Like people love to have black art in their homes. But when it comes to black artists, it's difficult to really pour into pour into them as just a demographic because it's like art becomes this thing that's cool and it's fun and it's adorable as a hobby when you're younger, but as you get older, it's like it's supposed to be, it's like it becomes this thing that's so it's far less practical, right? It's far less, you know, valuable. But when it's but when it's in the hands of a child, like it's supposed to be this amazing thing, but it's like don't a lot of people don't take the time to foster it like they want to or like they feel like they need to in order to get it to where it needs to be, where you have this like person who's fully functional and confident in their art, in their work, in their crafts. And you know, uh Sonia can understand that, like in regardless of the art form, you know, there's always gonna be that aspect of like fuck, I may not be good enough, but like the work that I'm doing is not to the par that I need it to be at. But that's just kind of a part of the process. But you know, being fully prepared from a young age is something that's really, really important. Uh, Kevin, uh, what about you? Did you experience these relapses in support?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, um, well, so like I said, uh my aunt helped raise me, and she was big into like black art and stuff like that. So she constantly made sure that I was like drawing, looking at other artists, not just black artists, um, but mostly black artists. Listen, you gotta count on a black auntie every time. Uh and she had me not only just like like art books and stuff, but like she would have me, like she would introduce me to like graffiti artists that she knew and stuff like that. And like she would bring me comics and stuff. Um, she would take me to a comic shop. Um, my dad was the same. Uh my dad was an artist. Um, he was really good at it. He never really did anything with it much, but he was really, like, really, really good. And he did tell me that like when I was younger, like, you don't have to go to these schools, you just gotta have a dream to want to be one, and you could create create a lot of the stuff. Um yeah, and my mom, she was supportive. Um, she didn't really like she was supportive as you know, that's my baby drawing. And she would get me any, she would get me most of the stuff that I wanted, or if she couldn't get it, like she would get me something similar to it or whatever. Um so my family's been pretty supportive. Also, people who are not, you know, blood-wise my family, they are like family to me, and they um they support me. Um there's a group of guys I do cons with, they're super supportive of me, like whenever I do anything, which is like they're like my brothers. So, like um, I've always really appreciated that from them. So, like I always try to like whenever they do something, support them back. So, I think you know, that's always good to have.

SPEAKER_04 38:17

That's actually that's hilarious, but that's also really wonderful. So it just always that one auntie somewhere, just willing to give you everything that you need in the way that you know you needed it.

SPEAKER_07 38:36

Uh Michaela, uh, what about you? Um, how was the support in your family when it uh came to your artistry and um just your support?

SPEAKER_06 38:47

Okay. Um, so I kind of want to backtrack a little bit to what Cito was talking about earlier with the haters. Um, I'm not gonna lie, I am itching to get that kind of criticism from somebody because um like I wish a motherfucker would. Please, please tell me because um a lot of my characters too, they're also very pretty. I feel like my par my characters kind of get a little bit of a pass because um they're drawn in the more retro art style, and everybody's in love with that retro style, but they are still large in the top, pretty in the face, and large in the back. And I'm like waiting for it because it's just like dude, this is all I've known in my entire life. Everyone in my family is shaped like this, I'm shaped like this. I can't help but draw what I know. I can't help with that. I got nothing. I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying to, but I'm just kind of like, dude, everyone will people will complain about like larger assets, but it's like, you know, there are people who look like this, you know. That's that's I want to like don't whatever. But I do understand the importance of the diversity, I get it entirely, and I'm doing my best to accommodate for that. I'm just ready and rarer to go for someone to say something crazy to me at some point. That's all. That's all. But in regards to no hands on the internet, in any given moment, but um, in regards to the family, the only person who ever gave ironically enough, who ever gave me any potential plaque for wanting to pursue art as a career was my father, the one who inspired me to draw in the first place. So um, excuse me, my my mom was incredibly supportive. The moment she learned that I wanted to do this and this is what I wanted to do, it was looking up schools, looking up um places that I could go that could get me more involved with an anime community of sorts of any sort for all for all. Actively doing all that. But my parents were divorced at the time. So on the weekends, mom was as supportive as she could be, but during the week I had to be with my dad, or it was just like you know. So actually, my dad was technically my first bully when it came to anime. Because my dad loved anime. I never knew that about him, though. He ate it up when he was a kid watching everything back in the day. Um Lazy Masamoto and stuff like that. So I was just like, how in the world? Like I had asked for a paper one time, and I just got a Dragon Ball, and I wanted to draw something I saw in the manga. And he was just like, I swear to God, if I'm gonna give you this paper, and I come back and you're drawing anime. That's it. I said, what does that mean? What is that? I don't know what that means. So I think when I graduated from college, I did really good. I ended up going to the art institute in uh Virginia Beach, which I did really cool. I did really good. But um, I think when it hit him like after I graduated, and after I had been doing conventions for a while, after I started making like legit money off of it, that was when I'm not gonna say that he wasn't supportive at that point, I think he started being supportive of overall when I got into school, but he has stopped being highway about it at this point. He's incredibly supportive. But it's funny about the whole drawing anime thing when I was a kid, because now um I had managed to get him into JoJo completely by accident. I was at his place one day, and of course, freaking you by Jojo comes off the ending for part five, right? Come on, something that blew. I was losing my mind. My partner didn't know what on what on earth I was going crazy over. I'm like, Joe Dice? Joe D. So that came on, and it was I was at my dad's when I was watching it, and he was like, What on earth are you looking at? And I'm like, Jojo's our adventure. My dad loves JoJo's Star Avenger, it's it's so crazy. So one year I um I drew him a stan. I drew him a stand, and I drew him an OC, a JoJo OC. And then he gets I get a text message from him randomly, and he was like, Well, they gave it boobs, but I got your stand cult of personality tattooed on my arm.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

And I was like, Oh far we've come.

SPEAKER_06 43:26

And I I'll relent to a friend, I was relenting to a friend one time about how dad never wanted anything to do with my art when I was a kid, and she was just like, Your dad has your art tattooed on it. What more do you want? I was just like I forget, I'm sorry. But but other than that, yeah, I think that was the only real pushback. Everybody else in my family was like, You like anime? Here's book 15 of Naruto that you're not reading right now.

SPEAKER_04 43:55

You had that, you had that family that was like, listen, if you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it. You're gonna do what you're gonna do right grandmother.

SPEAKER_06 44:04

She would bring home like DVDs, like berries. Like I watched Open Lee when I was like 12, probably didn't need to do that, but we all watched it. You did not. It was a family affair. We watched all of Chobits together. We tore through like all these. Like my she had brought home cereal experience lane. And I didn't and I didn't know because she didn't know. She was just grabbing stuff. Grandma grandma likes it a lot too. So we were all watching together. There was one time I got a phone call from her. Or no, I was watching Naruto with her when I was at my mom's place one day. And she was like, she was looking at uh Shikamaru. She's like, oh, is that Vegeta? And I was like, one randomly, my mom was like, I'm trying to get your birthday cake straight. Does um Vegeta have yellow hair or black hair? And I'm like, mom, I can't remember that.

SPEAKER_08 44:56

So it's just yes, the answer is yes.

SPEAKER_06 45:02

So it's evolved into this whole thing, but I'm so elated. I'm so thankful. Like I'm only able to be a full-time artist because my partner's been incredibly supportive with everything I'm doing. So I've had an amazing network of people who have been able to help me like be okay with what I'm doing. I'm very thankful. Absolutely for now, bro.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

Uh Signane, did you have anything else you wanted to add before we move on to the next question? I'm sorry, darling. Did you have something you wanted to add before we moved on to our next question?

SPEAKER_07 45:33

I had something. I had, but it went it's gone. So back around.

SPEAKER_04 45:38

So uh a lot of the so I I love this conversation because a lot of how we view um art black artists and their careers and the how they how you all express yourselves, right? And how every black artist expresses themselves through their art is usually under some level of scrutiny by the people who consume that art or the people who just pass by that art and like passive consumption. So being a black artist has always been something very prolific in terms of like our identity as a community as well as as like a culture. So when you look at your own art, do you see yourself? Well, when you look at your own art, where do you see yourself in terms of our community and our culture and this kind of like large, uh just just this large dimension of black artistry and black artists? Uh let's start with uh C dub.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Oh wow, okay. I get I get the first loaded question.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

Okay I told you I was bringing some fire today, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

I hear you. I hear you, sir. Um uh yeah, uh I I I I don't know. I mean, I feel like you know, there's a place for every type of art, which means there's a place for every type of black art. And um there's definitely like I'm kind of debating because uh, you know, like I'm a comic artist, um, I also write my own series. And when you're writing, it's it's a that's a different animal, it's a different beef than uh than drawing. Um it requires different tools. On the one hand, it's like it helps because you can kind of cut out the middleman by doing both of these jobs on your own, but at the same time, it's like twice the job, twice the labor. Um, and you if you kind of have to fight between which one you really want to dive into, and sometimes at the detriment of one or the other. Um so there are there are things that I want to do story-wise, that where I want to kind of uh through like you know, metaphor and just like comic book uh, you know, narrative, like kind of uh raise awareness too. So like in the in the future, I definitely want to like uh in my comic book summons, I have uh uh a black character, he's a detective, and he turns into a werewolf. And um there's like uh there's like some uh like mental illness in my family. Um I don't think we deal with that very well within the black community. Um so I kind of want to use like werewolfism and lycanthropy as like a metaphor for like mental illness and and all that stuff like that. So I have some uh some storylines that I want to explore there that I feel like in the future, you know, can be beneficial to people if you know if they like if they feel like they can get something out of it. Um so like I want to make more stories like that, where I can kind of put these bits and pieces in there, these little hidden gems that you can kind of pick up if you want to, but at the same time you can enjoy the story. Um because like I I I want to develop consciousness that promotes my blackness and you know in a way that can educate people, but I don't want to be ham-fisted with it. Um I can't be ham-fisted with it because I just that's just not me. And if I try to, I would be someone that I'm not. And uh I it's okay to be me. It's okay to be my brand of blackness, and it's like so that's something that I'm learning about myself because um again, back to the like the confidence issue and the encouragement and stuff like that. That's something that I've struggled with all my life. Like I've struggled with like depression and anxiety since I was a teenager. I'm also a product of uh of uh divorce, and um and uh so so yeah, there's there are these things that I I want to deal with and I want to help other people deal with if my perspective can help. Um, but how to do that without it being this big PSA thing. I think that's the line you gotta tow, and it's hard to do that. But I think if you try to be your authentic self and and you recognize that your authentic self is worthy of just simply existing, it's easier to do that. So that's the journey at home. That's uh where I want to come from.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

There's this consistent narrative of always becoming and never ending that evolution as a person. So, Kevin, you're next. When you look at your own art, where do you see yourself overall in the community, in the black community, in the community of black artists and black artistry, where where do you see yourself and your work?

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Um far as my work, um I don't see me. Um I'm trying to figure out how to answer this. Um I don't I don't see um see myself as like just done. Like I'm always trying something different. Um, and I try to encourage uh young kids to like try something different. Like you don't have to stick with one style and stuff like that. Um you can do everything, like try everything and then like just do whatever works best for you. Um you don't have to just draw certain certain things, you know? Um, I think sometimes as artists, people people who don't really understand try to make it seem like we have to do certain styles or we have to do um certain coloring and stuff like that. And it's just like you don't have to. Like, I'm a total mess when it comes to like coloring or inking or anything. Like, I will I when I first got into stencils, I literally just to get certain shapes, I literally took a bunch of pennies and like spread it out on the uh on the canvas and spray painted over top of it just because I wanted those circle shapes. I did done the same with rice, that's not something typically like people really do. But like once they saw the finished product, people was like, oh, okay, cool. I like this texture that's in this. So I don't know. Um, and I always let people know this, like, if you ever have any questions about anything, if I can answer it, I'll be happy to. Like, I just believe you should just help encourage more artists come up, especially younger ones.

SPEAKER_07 52:09

I want to take you back off of Kevin. Um, I met Kevin at uh Blurt Con a couple weeks ago, and um, we had an amazing conversation. Uh it was great to talk to Kevin because the hordes of people that kept taking pictures, I needed a break in Kevin was Kevin was there, Kevin's called. Kevin was this wonderful uh breath, breath of fresh air, and we we really started talking about art and how important it was. And um, you know, and he was so gracious to give me um it's like a marker ink pen. And when I tell you, I almost cried because me, um, I love gifts, and it could be like the smallest thing. It's like holding his pen like a kick crack and have this body paint on, but this is so important. Um, but that was so important. Like, if I was a child, I probably would have been wailing because it's like someone is supporting me, and I'm not even doing what Kevin does. Um, the medium, the textures that he does is so interesting and classic as well. Um, you know, the picture of the mummy was just so classic to me. And so for for him to be able to give me uh this very wonderful pen, like that's very important. Like if I was a child, I would probably hold it every day because that's a constant reminder that a black artist supported me. Like a black artist supported is helping me out. I'm going to him and he's helping me out. Like that's and um, and I'm a grown-ass woman. So, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 53:42

Like an origin story, but it's very important, like something.

SPEAKER_07 53:52

So I I know Kevin probably like, oh no, no, you can you can take it. It's like no, that's huge, that's monumental to me. And I think that um black artists uh wanting to reach out to the younger um generation, um, or even you know, current or older generation is so encouraging and it really lights the fire, and it's so important. So um, you know, Kevin, I am so, so proud of you and just so elated that you're here. Um, all the artists, I'm so elated and proud of all of you and um the the trials, the tribulations, the self-doubt, the you know, the encouragement that we were seeking. It's a lot to put our art out on the table for the master to see. Um, because we have to put our our pride or our fears to the side and really let us like, you know, like, all right, guys, let me have it, let me have it. It's it's cool, you know. And then when people are really gravitating to you, that's that's huge. Um, even if it's one person, that's still a huge success because that one person likes what you're doing. And and you know, that's so that's so important. And um, I feel like our artists just kind of need just that, you know, like going back to support, but um, but black artists. And I think that, you know, what you know, I'm using Kevin um as an example because you know, I don't really get to meet many black artists. I I usually don't go out too much. I usually stay in my ass at home. So, you know, it's hot, I don't do the heat either.

SPEAKER_04 55:22

So um shout out to everybody else who hates the heat.

SPEAKER_07 55:33

I always say I'm too damn thick for the heat. I can't do this.

SPEAKER_04 55:37

Too much mass and too much body heat to be cool.

SPEAKER_07 55:40

Too much fluff to be out in this damn heat. But um, but it's I'm just very appreciative of, you know, again, black artists. I I I understand uh what you go through. Uh thick size and heat is too damn much. It's short of fucking a mini scary and I'm still hot. So yeah, I totally agree with you. But um, but yes, just going back, uh, you know, just that that encouragement um of us black artists into reaching out to our community is huge. Uh, very huge. So I just wanted to tell everyone how much I appreciate you all. And just, you know, you're here for a reason. I mean, you're on this podcast because we recognize you as artists and we love what you do. And if we love it, what you do, there's so many others that appreciate your craft and your aesthetic as well. So that's a huge testament to who you are and to just keep going because we definitely have fans out there for sure.

SPEAKER_04 56:37

Um beautifully said, beautifully said. I had nothing, no notes, nothing to add. Uh Mike, you're a next friend. When you look at your own art, where do you see yourself in the overall black community and a like larger culture of black people in terms of like artistry? Where do you see yourself?

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Uh I don't know, it's hard to answer. I don't I remember like uh once I'd gotten to the point where I realized I could like paint anything, and like how like scary that kind of guy, because it's like the everything now the world's oyster, you can paint whatever you want. And I remember feeling like, you know, like I had to explain like I remember feeling like I had to explain things to white people too hard. Like I remember feeling that way. Um feeling like I had to just carry the weight of like blackness, like in a monolithic sense, is uh which uh later became to realize just how unfair that was, I guess. Um I also realized historically that we're not really mentioned or like the page in the art history book for black people is this then, right? So there's not there's not very many of us that get recognized as it doesn't mean that there are obviously millions, probably, right, of African-American artists or have just just black artists in general that aren't that weren't great that maybe didn't get recognized, right? But um, for me, when I look when I think about how many black people I know and and how different every black person is that I know. And I might could categorize a few of them, but in large part, I'm I really can't, right? Like the the this the experience the black experience is so broad and vast, and the spectrum is so crazy that I don't think I even think about my art. It's it's it's it's a drop, it's a drop in the bucket. It's it's you know, it's and I don't mean that I guess to minimum minimum minimalize uh the work that I do. Um I guess I just think of it like a white person doesn't think, well, I wonder how my art is, you know, how my art makes amongst all the other white artists. Like they, you know, they just they just make shit and help people buy it, you know what I mean? So I think there's a there's a part of me that has found comfort in just kind of just expressing myself uh just independently and hoping that I'm just having a human experience that other people can gravitate to no matter what. Like it's not I love being I love that I'm black and I get to create. Um I think uh one of the I remember watching this interview, it was a Lashawn Thomas interview. Uh I was like my guy growing up, I remember. Uh, because I wanted to do animation. And I remember him one of the in one of the interviews, he started talking about his art. And he was like, the cool thing about art is no one, like no one has to know who you are. Like there's no fame behind it necessarily, at least initially, right? Like, no, like if it's dope, it's just dope. If someone likes it, they just like it. They don't know that you're black, white, whatever it is, right? Like, that's the cool part about art. Because if you're good, you're good. You know what I mean? So I think there's a part of me that has found solace in that. And the cool part after that when they realize, oh shit, he's black. Oh, she's big as fuck.

unknown 59:46

Right?

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Like, like there's that part I think that I think I enjoy. But I but I don't I I honestly try not to think about it uh in the spectrum of how like of black of how many black people I know and the experience of what that looks like. I I don't know. I I think I've I think I would feel small. I honestly try not to do that. I I think when I look at my shit, I just I I just try my best to get whatever's in my head out onto the canvas and match it with whatever experience and however I want them to, you know, see it and absorb it when you know how they take it in when they see it, I guess. But I really try to stay in that pocket. That's that's that pocket is fun for me. Like it's fun when I stay there.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:27

Uh like C Dove said earlier, it's being black and creating is enough, right? Yeah. I and sometimes, you know, I don't think that as black people, we get a chance to really recognize how how unfair it is at times to feel like the weight of the community is on your shoulders every time you do something. That you always have to be like, I'm upholding this like much this thing that's bigger than myself in everything that I do. And that's and it's kind of what a lot of you all were talking about, you know, earlier, just in terms of where we are, and in terms of like our community consciousness and how we understand the reasons why we do things and so on and so forth. And just what what I can only explain is just like this very kind of traumatic relationship with always having to like push ourselves in a certain way. And I think one of the more beautiful postmodern aspects about um our generation or just generational artists, is that they're we're we're beginning to disassociate a bit more from this like much larger kind of uh what I want to call it, this much like like larger ideology that we somehow have to create or uphold this ideal that came before us that we don't always have the capacity for. Or we we're and it's like we have to be able to contribute, yes, but everything that we do cannot be in reverence or to you know to honor or to you know be in servitude of this like larger idea of blackness. We can just be black and we can be and we can create and we can do in ways that are you know expressions of self and you know, the healthy ways and the ugly ways and all of the ways that contribute to this larger narrative of like that vastness of the the spectrum of blackness that you were talking about. That's why we're called the blur spectrum, but it comes full circle every single time.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

I I just hope that like made sense. I know I can talk in circles as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:28

It's okay. I'm a philosophy professor. Uh things make more sense to me than you realize. Michaela, what about you? What about where you see yourself and your artwork in terms of like this larger black community in black artistry?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:42

I think we all have collectively, well, y'all all have collectively summed up how I feel about it. It's kind of like I've never put my blackness second at any point in my life, or what we consider to be blackness second, like for example, I I've been a very big first wind of fire fan all my life. All my life. I have no hesitation telling you about my love for funk and all that. And when I was a kid, I was just like, man, what if they combined funk and all this, all the stuff that I love about black music and black culture, and they put it into anime. Lo and behold, Jojo the Zar Adventure was a thing. So it worked out great. It's like, oh, I know that reference, but that's that's pretty much it. But um I think I think in regards to like the grand scheme of what we're doing, like, or yeah, what we're all doing, essentially. I think that in itself, that in itself is exactly what we're we're we are doing what we're supposed to be doing. You know, our ancestors, wherever, wherever they came from, our ancestors would want us to be happy doing what we're doing. And I feel rather in tune with myself and their their poor with them. My mother's side of the family, apparently I didn't know this, apparently full of creators and writers, artists, like parts. There's like a specific section in Georgia, I think it is, where like the family was they were the eight girl. Essentially, they were those people in that area of Atlanta or some parts of Georgia where like streets are named after them. I have family uncles who are just TV airmen. I never knew any of that, but like the fact that greatness was just something that was going to happen, regardless. For me and for all of us here, we were meant to be doing what we're doing, and I think we all know that. It's not like we're trying to fight our way into a creative space. No, we're just creative, and we have managed to find people that were around us who look like us, a lot of people didn't have that who look like us, who have the same, mostly the same, same shared experiences and the same current experiences that can also stem from us just so happened to be black. I want to trade my blackness for the world, and I think it's great that I can contribute to what people perceive blackness to be, in my opinion, in a positive way. All my life. Oh, you talk white or you have white interests by other black people. So I think it's integral that other black people see, oh no, you can be more than just what they're expecting from you. You can literally do whatever you want to do. You are not limited to this thing, and everybody needs to see that, no matter their age. Like I cried when I saw a Black Panther.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

So it was like cry again when we watch that trailer.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:54

When I sit down and watch it, yeah, that's gonna be that's gonna be what happens. But I think um my standing is Black, like I said, with the YouTube video I had seen, you will be selling blackness to what non-white audiences no matter what you do, and no matter how hard you try to not do it. Even if you even if you consciously or subconsciously don't try to. I uh don't care. I'm gonna do whatever I'm gonna do regardless. And my stuff people look at my stuff and they see that it's made by me and they love it, regardless of and they see that I'm black and they feel more in where they need to, they feel like they're more where they need to be.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:30

So I feel like it's so important, um, everything that you're saying, and uh just us being black is magic, so to speak, and we don't have to do anything. I think we were brought up to, you know, you want to make a name for yourself, you know, you want to push this, push yourself out there because you know you want to be important. And I'm like, but baby, we already are important, just us being here, we're already important. Do you see what we do? Do you see? Like, we don't we just breathe and the shit is viral. Like we like so um, and yeah, we don't have to do something specifically. I really gotta put my blackness out there. No, just us being ourselves is promoting ourselves, just being our we don't have to do anything extra. It's just us who we are naturally, um, and that automatically shows our blackness, shows our black pride, which is just we we don't have to do anything, really, just be ourselves. I was um, I remember there was someone at a time that I was dating, funny enough, and uh it was previous going into cosplay, and I was like, I don't think I can do we're actually really good friends, ironically. So I was like, I don't think I can do this cosplay thing, and and they were like, What, but people like love you, people love your personality, just do it. I'm like, huh? Look, yeah, yeah, you're black. Like people, you make people laugh and just not doing anything specifically, just just just go and do it, and people gravitate to you. And my nieces, you're like, just do it, you know. You know, you you already have your own aesthetic anyway, naturally, just how you are, and just do it. And then it kind of, I would say, blew up into me expressing my African heritage naturally in my cosplays. I wanted it to be something, I didn't want to be like everybody else, because I'm not everybody else naturally. So I started merging my heritage. Like, y'all gonna get this Nigerian pride in here with y'all like it's that. So I'm gonna put it into my yeah, my cosplays. And I think that's why black people really gravitated to that because it's showing how proud I am of being black, and I'm not hiding it. And y'all just gonna fucking see it. You like it and that. So, and I think it's just being unapolog. I think that is what what unapologetically black is being proud that you are black. And if you don't like it, I'm so sorry. I'm not gonna change my blackness for you. You're just gonna have to just just deal with it and suffer because everybody else is.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:19

I don't remember the title of this episode.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:27

Do you know that Ace? We wouldn't have AC if it wasn't for a black. We wouldn't have it. We'd be out here hot as shit.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:39

Wouldn't have a child.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:41

Right. She probably like, damn, just hot, nah, nah, we gotta do something like this. You know what I'm saying? Like, but um, you know, and Amber was saying, I do think that we just are naturally creative. And it just it goes outside of, you know, I would say painting or or even cosplay. Even when it comes to dance, why do you think so many people gravitate to our dances? You know, and I'll never forget when TikTok went on strike. Black creators went on strike because they were tired of getting, you know, having their creations basically culturally appropriated. And then they're like, no, y'all ain't gonna get shit. Go ahead and create something then, go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:20

And everybody was kind of like like crickets because we're struggling, struggling.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:28

Because we we do naturally create, and and I mean, whether it's fashion, whether it's music, you see our influences across the globe, you see our influences in Asia, you see our influences everywhere, and um, even though we are the least appreciated, but you see our influence, whether you like it or not, and that's so that's so important. So, and it's not that we were doing anything different, but us just being black and us breathing, us eating, us just being there, and we just naturally have a creative sense about ourselves that is uh it affects the world, it affects uh everybody globally, whether they like it or not. So um, that's just how special that black magic, like that's black magic for real. Like that's that's unapologetically black, and we are so important. And anytime you know, you you have a feel of man, I don't know if I'm good enough, turn on the TV. You're gonna see us doing something amazing. Go online. We're gonna see black influence literally everywhere, even if they don't want to admit it. But just even us seeing like, oh, we real big like that, like because we are a big deal. So uh it's just a constant reminder uh whether other people are reminding ourselves, or just if we need to remind ourselves that we're everywhere, whether they like it or not.

unknown 1:11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:51

That was phenomenal. Like no, Nobel winning Nobel Prize speech. So uh let's uh I want to wrap up this episode on a really high note. So I have a really I have a one last question for you all. Um, when you look at your careers as artists, when you look at everything where you come from, when you look at where you are currently, where you want to go, what are not even just where you want to go, because I'm thinking in terms of future, but no, no, let's include it. But what are some triumphs that you found yourself most proud of as an artist, as a black artist, or what are some things that you are looking forward to achieving and or creating or divining in your mind's eye as an artist?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:41

Um a triumph, I would say um putting my fears aside, um, you know, I it's still a constant battle um, you know, of wanting to be better for myself. And I think um a lot of times somebody asks me, like, you know, what's your favorite cosplay? And I never really can answer ever because I just kind of do what's in my head, and after it's done, I don't even really go back and look at it. I just kind of go to the next. So um my biggest triumph, I would say, um was I um I was asked to be in a magazine this year, and that was cool. But I think what the the rewarding part about it was having to be forced to look at my work. And a lot of times I, you know, I always hear like music musicians, and they said that once they do like a song, they don't go back and listen to it. And I always thought that was strange, but then I actually really understood what they meant. Like I do, and I just kind of just I leave it, I leave it be. But for this particular project, they needed me to send photos of that was really near and dear to me, and it forced me to go from the very beginning and currently because I always think, you know, I'm not progressing, I'm not really doing anything different. I don't, I feel like I'm my talent is stagnant, but it forced me to look at what I created, and it was very emotional because a lot of times I just kind of feel like I'm I'm okay to par at best, but to actually see and then I had to focus and it made me look over and it forced me to look over and over again at my pieces, it was very emotional. Um because I'm like, I created that, like I actually created that, like I did that, and um that was that was big for me. And even you know, just kind of recognizing my talent. Um, because again, I always I'm always self-doubt every time, but it actually made me it made me stop and it made me stop and just really appreciate myself. And um, I think us as artists, us as black people, we don't ever appreciate ourselves ever. I don't think we ever have the time or we we give ourselves the time of day to really sit and look at what we do because no one else can do that. And I think we just um we have to really just focus on ourselves, and that is uh a form of self-care. So um I would say that was probably my biggest accomplishment on, I guess, a psychological sense for myself was to appreciate what I do and appreciate the work that I bring. Um, and it wasn't for anyone else, it wasn't for anyone, any other follower that said, no, I want you to try this. It really was making me appreciate who I am, and that that was very special to me. So I think that was probably my biggest accomplishment for me, not like you know, cosplaying or going to a convention because that's fleeting. What's huge is something that that really stays with you and that feeling of self-gratitude, that was my biggest accomplishment, and it didn't hit me until this day.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:48

That's extremely important for everyone here in all regards. So thank you for that. That's whoo, I need to sit in that for a minute. Um, okay, uh, C dub. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:04

Uh, I mean, I guess I would say that's my biggest accomplishment. Uh is like I I guess kind of an extension of the whole um just kind of uh being more confident in yourself and um and and what you and recognize and what you bring to the table. That's why in any given situation, it doesn't just extend to art. Um like I that's an ongoing thing, uh like uh again with like just like the the like the confidence and just like the validation that you get from like it's really scary as an artist. I think it's a really scary thing to be an artist. I mean you're you're pretty naked when you put your stuff out there, especially the first time. Um it's it's it's something like uh I I don't think you can really describe it to anyone who doesn't understand. Um so when you put your stuff out there and it's received and you have no idea what's gonna happen, and then it turns into something that not only gives you the validation you were looking for, but you see that it can become a viable career. Like, yeah, for for a young black kid, that's substantial. Um and to see others do the same thing and flourish, it's like it's it's it's compounded. So um I like I don't really feel like I I'm not zeroing in on any like one specific success that has to do with like any kind of like monetary gain or any kind of project or anything like that. Because to me, you know, they're they're they're all the same. I'm gonna do my best at whatever I'm given, whatever I try. Uh, you know, I have equal passion in just about everything I do artistically. Um the triumphs for me have to do with like um just anything that kind of bolsters, you know, my my self-confidence and and and my expression of myself, anything that allows me to express myself fully without uh prejudice and without um feeling like I have to be something else to fit in, you know, because like yeah, it's that whole cliche, like, you know, you we used to not be able to like anime, we used to not be able to like comic books, and stuff used to be lame, you know, we still did it anyway, but it wasn't wasn't as widely accepted as it is now, and it's just it's a weird thing when I feel like you grow up black with that experience because you know we are consistently and perpetually commodified as a people. So when you are an artist, especially when you enter the public sphere with your art, like you are jumping, you're diving into further commodification of your blackness, of everything. So, but but that's a choice, and that's what makes it a different thing because when you have choice, you have freedom. And uh if you don't realize that freedom can be oppressive, so you you you know, it's like too many choices. Um but when you do realize that you're you're you're good and you you're allowed to be you, you're allowed to create, then um that freedom is like and I feel like I've experienced that. So um, to me, that's my biggest triumph because like just for a lot a lot of my years, adolescent years, I didn't think there was a lot of things that were for me. I didn't think I was allowed to go to college, I didn't think I was allowed to have this as a career. I I didn't think any of these things were possible for me. Um, and and yet here we are. So I gotta I gotta take that. I I as much as like I I'm very self-deprecating and it's hard for me to take compliments and all that stuff like that. But I have to force myself to take that. Like that's that's what I have to do. Um, so so I am.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:23

Listen, you touched on my Marxist right there. But also, it's funny because um even when I talk to my students when in my seminars and classes and things like that, I always like repeat to them this kind of like existentialist mantra that uh we are always we are doomed to be free, right? We we we always have a choice, regardless of whether we think we have one or not, we can always choose. And that's something that's not that's something that's liberating but haunting at the same time. And what you do with your ability to choose then becomes the kind of groundwork for your own existence and how you present yourself and show up in the world, in your career, and your and just in your personal space and your relationships and so on and so forth. So absolutely. Ooh, y'all are dropping these sage-like wisdom today.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:11

Michaela, you're up in the um well, to follow up with all of that, um, I completely agree because the whole thing is like for me personally, was just getting up and doing the damn thing, quite quite frankly. I was just so as a kid, even I was just so scared to do anything. And unpacking a lot now, I'm starting to understand where that's all coming from, but um, I think I'm having sort of an epiphany. I think it's mostly like, oh wow, I really can do whatever it is I want to do because clearly I'm doing that now, you know? So it's mostly just um I'm really happy with where I am right now. I may not be swimming in money, but for me, it was never about the money. It was never about the fact that like my dad making a big deal about whether or not I'll be able to take care of myself. And I'm like, but frankly, I really don't care. I just want to be able to create. And I know that if I had pursued literally anything else, I wouldn't have been able to do that. I would have been this before. I know even in like past lifetimes or other timelines or whatever like that, I would be doing something creative. I know that about myself. So to be able to do that as at all is just fantastic. And I have goals and I have ambitions and everything like that, but that changes for me like year to year. Like right now. Um, to get a work visa to go work at that black studio in Japan would be a dream. That is a dream, that is a goal. I want to be able to do that, or just to even one day open my own studio, or to have the ability and the time and the resources to just fully animate my own pilot. That is what I want to do. But the thing is, I know that I can do that, and that didn't hit me until this year, for all for real. So I think I think I'm happy. I can say that for a fact, I'm happy, and that's not something a lot of us can say, and to be happy, I can be poor as dirt. I'm I'm fine with that. I'm I'm doing what I want to do, I don't hate it, and I'm happy.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:38

So that's a that is a huge triumph.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:44

I want to be when I grow up.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:51

Um, just to piggyback off of Michaela, um, we as black people in our community, we have a lot of pressure to, I guess, assimilate into the culture that we currently have now. We're expected to go to college, we're expected to go into the corporate world. And anything outside of the corporate world is seen as unprofessional, it's questionable, it's oh, will you be able to survive? How will you pay the bills? And things like that. Um, and then also we have the pressure of still being professional. When we are going the creative route, people question our intelligence, like, oh, did you not make it? Are you not able to be in the corporate world and things like that? And I think we are learning that our happiness and our ability to be in our creative space is more important to us than what other people view us as or how other people see us. And honestly, it's been beautiful to see just see our people go from, you know, working in corporate offices, being a hamster and a mule for, you know, corporations to us actually stepping out and being like, no, this is who we are, this is what we want to do, and this is what makes us happy. You know, who cares what you look or how you look at us or how you view us, this is what we're capable of. And it doesn't take away from our value. So that's what I have to say about you know, us pushing past, you know, what our parents wanted. Because I remember as a kid, my my parents just immediately told me, you're gonna be a doctor or lawyer. You know, that that's what's going to, that's what's gonna take you somewhere. And I was even at like the age of eight, I was like, no.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:26

Like I don't want it.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:32

But you know, I'm glad to see the culture of where we are now. We're pushing past our generational trauma and we're finally putting our happiness first. So that makes me very happy to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:43

Lady Giovanni with the Maya Angelou style wisdom. I love everything a lot.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:49

How are we just gonna sneak into the podcast and just take take all our wigs off?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:54

Every edge, every but I I completely identify what she's talking about. Like, I to this day, like when I was younger, I wanted to uh I want I I love animals, I wanted to work with animals, I wanted to be a zoologist, and then I wanted to be a veterinarian. But I I didn't care about those professions, I just cared about animals. And I even to this day, like I don't do any of those things. I still love animals, but like to this day, like sometimes I still have to, you know, put up with my mom saying like the kind of like that slick thing, like, oh, I really think you missed your calling by not doing this thing. I was like, well, no, no, no. I just I I still love animals. That was the call, that was not the calling itself. It's just I had a passion for something that's not human, for things that aren't human. And that's really all it was. I can love animals still and not love the jobs that come along with them. But what I'm doing now with my life is, you know, despite some of the difficulties I may encounter while doing it, I'm still very happy whenever I am doing it. Like I'll still step into that classroom and I'll have a hole of students in front of me, and I'll be fulfilled. I'll be happy. I'll be glad that I did that that day. And that's enough. That's enough for me. So yeah, that's phenomenal. Kevin, I know you're like last, but still not the least. We're not saying you gotta drop a couple of a couple of tones of wisdom on us, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:22

Everybody said like really awesome and great stuff. Like definitely makes me want to just sit at this table all day and just draw and call up my friends and force them to draw. Um, but no, I um I think never like whatever negative stuff that people say, screw them. You know what I mean? Like, people are gonna say you're weird and stuff, and just be like, whatever. Like, I personally like doing weird stuff and I like being weird. Um I'm a straight up geek, and nothing's gonna make me stop. Um And I don't know, I don't even know how to top whatever everything you guys said. But just have fun. Just straight up have fun. Do what makes you happy because nobody else is really. I mean, there are people that's gonna, you know, want you to be happy and stuff, but only you can make yourself truly happy. And just keep doing it. Like time is time is not forever for everyone. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:27

I want to piggyback off of what Kevin was saying. And a lot of times artists, we lose sight on what we do and why we do it. And you really have to check back and analyze why are we doing this again? And I think a lot of times, you know, we're in the midst of commissions or in the midst of trying to have deadlines, and we're like, why the fuck are we doing this? And then we have to like step back, oh, I'm doing this because I like it. Um a lot of times I'm very, I'm like, why am I doing this? And you know, I don't get paid for what I'm doing. And a lot of people, they don't really do art. Of course, the goal would be nice to have, you know, get some money out of it, but that that wasn't the main goal. Um, you know, we know that we're not gonna be millionaires off of, well, some people can answer, I will say that. But you know, that's not the that's not the main goal. We do it because it it is an extension of ourselves and it really is bringing our kind of like our mini need to life. And that's why we we do what we do, and we must try not to forget that. And once we start to forget that is when we start to despise what we love, and what we love is a part of ourselves, and that is horrible because that is an extension of ourselves. So we really have to be careful and really remember why we do what we do, because no one is going to do that before you bud yourself, and you have to stay focused, you have to have a laser vision on what it is that really brings us peace, either peace, refuge, like not everyone does art for the same reasons. It might be journaling, you know, trying to kind of get what we have inside and putting it down. Um, so it's a form of therapy for a lot of us. So, why do we do what we do? There's always there's so many reasons on why we do it, and it's really to make sure we don't forget that. So that's just something that we have to always keep in the back of our heads we don't forget that.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:28

Very well said. Um, I think this episode has been absolutely phenomenal. Just the concept of art, uh, black art being um an artist, right? Is this very aggressive and radical kind of extension of self, but at the same time, this very intentional pathway towards self-love and self-expression and self-actualization in ways that we don't always get a chance to fully acknowledge. Um, because it's so easy to commodify art. It's so easy to look at the things that people produce and put a price tag on them and inevitably forget that this is not simply just an object for my consumption that this is an extension of another human being. This is the intangible of the human experience made tangible, right? This is the thoughts, the feelings, the lives that were lived somehow um transposed into this physical medium that I now have access to. Like there's something beautiful to acknowledge about the black experience, about the artistic experience, regardless of whether it's through writing, through cosplay, through um like through painting, through sketching, through sculpting, through whatever medium or art we as a people choose to engage, that there is something quintessentially abnormal, um beautiful, and simultaneously um abstract and complicated, that we get the opportunity to simplify for other people. And even on the days when we look at it and say, that's not good enough, that wasn't, that wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be. That wasn't the that my my intention didn't make it into my heart the way that I want it to be. I can do that better. That even that notion of like perfectionism that drives us to create more, to be more, and to continue to see ourselves in a multitude of ways and express ourselves in a like myriad of different um forms and mediums is something that ultimately everyone deserves to have access to, right? And the reason we continue to have our metal data soul system, the can the reason we continue to have black artists on our podcast and talk about their experiences, their lives, and what it's like to be creative and to have been a creative for the entirety of your life, regardless of what that pathway has looked like, is something that we need, right? Because it's not always an every every black person or every person who listens to our podcast has never gotten the full opportunity to tap into that radical self-expression, that creativity that they think may not actually be there, but just actualizes itself in some other way, shape, or form. Like the artistry behind the self is really what these episodes are about. And the kind of inherent creativity that we all just may not have the opportunity to really nurture and care for, that hasn't been nurtured and cared for for X amount of years, like the people who listen who may have been stagnant in terms of their self-expression, in terms of their art, the people who didn't, you know, actually pursue art because they didn't have the confidence, the people who didn't have the support, the people who didn't have the space or even the the mental and emotional bandwidth to engage in art in the ways that everyone here has. So are the both those are the people who these episodes are for. And of course, you know they're for everyone because we want everyone to have access to what it means for black people to be in creative spaces and to create creative spaces and just to be for the sake of being. Um we need to continue to make sure that we have all of that available. So I want to thank all of our artists for being here today and for speaking your truths and for speaking your lives onto this podcast for all of our listeners. Um, so what I want to do now is take the opportunity for all of our artists to tell our listeners where they can be found, how they can find and purchase your art, where they where are they gonna see you next. Are you gonna be in any cons? Starting with C DubArt. Tell them about yourself. Where can they find you? Where are you gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:57

Uh yeah, absolutely. Um uh again, uh name's Chris Williams. Go by C DubArt on socials at C D-U-B-B-A-R-T. Uh, I have my website, cdubart.com. You can pretty much get all of my links, everything there. It's also a store where you can buy my prints, comic books. Um, I also have uh a visual commission price list there. So if you want anything specific, I can do that from there as well. Uh yeah, um again, just Google C Dub Art and you'll see me everywhere. The next place you'll see me convention-wise, uh C2E2 uh next month, August 5th to the 7th. And then after that, I'm going to Baltimore, Comic-Con, and then after that, Rhode Island. That's probably it for me for the year. Um but uh yeah, I I love what I do, and uh thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:44

Phenomenal was amazing having Michaela. Tell them what tell the people where they can find you, find your art, find you, find you at conventions. Where are you gonna be? When you gonna be there?

SPEAKER_06 1:35:54

Alrighty. So um again, my name is Michaela Moore. My art name on both Twitter and Instagram is MikenArt. That's M-I-C-K-E-Y-N 163. Um, my next upcoming convention is gonna be Superstar Anime. That's gonna be Virginia Beach. That's gonna be August 13th and the 14th. I have a good number of uh conventions following up after that. I've got another one in uh Fairfax, August 27th. And then my next convention won't be until October, so I have a nice little break. So with that, my commissions will be open. If you go to my Instagram and you hit my link tree, that's where um my commissions prices and the option to buy one will be under my Ko-fi, under the commissions tab. Um, they will be open for a while, so those will be my for the year.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:46

So all right, thank you very much. And last but certainly not least, we have Kevin. Kevin, tell the people where they can get to you, get to your art, and get to your beautiful mind, mind paints.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:02

Um, you can hit me up on Instagram under uh Kevin Hunt1977. Um, I don't have any more cons lined up, but I might try to get into um Baltimore Comic Con. Um I'll be there regardless whether I'm tabling or not. I'll probably be helping my art crew. If not, um I'll be tabling. So bring me money. Uh um, but um this is this is super awesome. Um you guys are super awesome, and I would love to meet all of you guys in person. Oh, you will see in Baltimore, man. Yes, D dub, I would definitely stop by and say, as per usual.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:48

Please tell the people where they can find you.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:50

Hello, everyone. My name is Sayone Cosplay. On Facebook, it's Sione Cosplay. On Instagram, it's Sayone underscore cosplay. And if you're trying to get me on email, it's Sione periodcosplays at gmail.com. I got a uh what is that when they all dance and TikTok. I got a TikTok, but I only got three videos and that's it. So don't go on it. So uh if you hit me up between Instagram and Facebook, you can find me things. Thank y'all.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:23

Of course, we don't want to forget about our good friend Michael Howell. You can find him on Instagram at Michael underscore howell art. That's Michael M-I-C H A E L underscore howl h-o-w-e-l-l ar t on Instagram. And you can find links to his website at michaelhowellart.com. Please make sure to go check out his work. Reach out to him for any of his amazing any of his amazing pieces that you would love to get a hold of. And of course, you can find me at the blackrecoy on Instagram. You can also find me at not black by choice on Instagram as well as on Facebook. And follow us on all of our socials, uh, at the Blur Spectrum on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:07

We don't have a TikTok yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:08

Are we working on that? That's something that's not a question for me. Nonetheless, uh, you can find us on all those things. Also, please be sure to go check out Blur Creations on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and other things that say blur creations. Uh so uh that to wrap everything up, thank you all for listening to this episode. Thank you, artists, for all being here. We really appreciate you all showing up and showing out and making sure people have access to everything that you do and everything that you are. Um we'll see you all next week.

unknown 1:39:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:44

This was fun. Appreciate it so much. I bow down to the aesthetic that you are.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:51

All right, say bye to the people. Bye, everybody.