SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast, everyone. I hope you are excited for this particular topic because it's not one to be excited about. It's one we're going to be talking about our past, I guess not traumas, I guess experiences. Let's go with experiences, although those lead to trauma. Sometimes, sometimes they lead to good experiences, positives, but also they lead to downtrodden events. That we can use as pick-me-ups. Not like the drug pick-me-ups, but more so like the alcoholic pick-me-ups that take you through the day, even though you end up turning, you know, 45 with kids drinking bourbon mixed with your coffee. Anyway, so I hope everybody is ready for this particular episode. It's really fascinating. We came up with it a couple of weeks ago, and it's something that I think each and every one of us have been thinking about or even have had side conversations about. And that is, why aren't blurts accepted, wanted, thought about, normalized in black spaces? And this can be a community, this can be a church, this can be a school, this can be a party, this can be a friends' group. Why aren't the things that blurts hold dear normalized and easily accepted in black spaces? That's kind of what our topic is about. Of course, you know, knowing how we are, it may expound into more detailed things. So we'll see where we go. But as always, I must first start by introducing my esteemed group of panelists today. Uh, starting off with uh, well, I guess I'll introduce myself, your moderator, Suchi no shogun. Uh, also lead off to the uh uh essence of uh medical knowledge, the uh backing of fundamental uh uh properties within you know the healthcare industry, the doctor, the one and only. What's good?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Uh we have the uh fashionista of despair, the the the the uh beauty of all things grotesque and decrepit, the the one, the only, the lovely green and black laced Syone cosplay.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Hello!

SPEAKER_01 2:10

And of course, our fourth panelist of today. She is the esteemed leader of many a charitable organization. She is the uh head of studio and graphic design alike. She is the cosplayer with the most and the best of all players, Miss Skittles.

SPEAKER_07 2:32

Hey everyone.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

So you gotta start off with a joke. Everybody's gotta laugh.

SPEAKER_07 2:40

It's so serious.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Um, yes, no. But let's go ahead and start off this conversation. It's nothing that, you know, doesn't have to be light or too heavy, but you know, um, I was mentioning right before we decided that before we started recording uh about this particular topic, I was thinking about it just the night before. And um I had I uh yesterday I was just at a convention, uh, amazing convention, Atlanta Comic-Con, and uh it was you know really great. I enjoyed myself, met a bunch of different uh artists and vendors and uh uh entrepreneurs, business owners, all different types of people. And I was with a couple of people uh uh yesterday, and one of the things, uh one of the people who was with us, uh, first time at a con, never been to any type of anime, comic-con, anything like that. Uh so you know, I asked them, you know, how did you feel? What did you think of this first experience, your first time in a space like this? And one of the things they said was he he could tell that in that space, everybody could just be themselves. There was an ability to communicate from congoer to vendor, from vendor to artist, from artist to anyone. Everybody's just in a space where they're everybody likes the same things, whether it's anime, whether it's comic books, cartoons, and even if you don't know about the next thing, people are willing to explain it to you. And as walking around, you know, with them, and it's not like we were saying, hey, first timer here, it's just a genuine experience, you know, having conversations with different vendors and different people. I thought about that. I was like, huh. Although, you know, I'm sure all of us have had, you know, not the most positive of convention experiences as well. But as a more general state, when you go to a convention, and it's the reason why we go to conventions, if you think about back when we did the uh Corona Vention episodes uh in our earlier days, we were talking about how we missed that that neighborhood type of vibe, that familiar community type of vibe where we couldn't go to conventions. And it it warmed my heart to know that somebody who just walked in for the first time had never been in these types of spaces before, immediately felt that community uh feeling. So that was awesome. Because, you know, then later on last night, I went to a um a uh, I call it a neighborhood bowling alley. I'm just gonna call it that. Um and uh the experience obviously was very polarizing uh to the convention earlier in the day. And um I I obviously, I mean, I didn't cosplay yesterday, but I did wear blurred clothing. Uh so you know, I wasn't about to go home and change. I didn't really care. You know, they were comfortable, so I just went to this, you know, black space, if you will. And I believe I got a little bit of eyes, if you will. Just people kind of interested in what I was wearing. Um, like I believe I was wearing some bar blurred creations clothing. So, you know, people were kind of just looking like, what is that? Why does he have that on? Um, I didn't really care, obviously. Uh, because you know, anytime I got my one-piece bands on, it's a wrap. Um, but um uh there were, you know, a couple of eyes, and I don't know if they were looking at what I was wearing, wondering why I was wearing it. Maybe, maybe I'm attractive. I don't know what it could possibly be. And that's why you put phones on vibrates. Um what it could possibly be. But it just it was it was odd. And when you looked around at the different things that people were wearing, people were doing, people were talking about, it was like even the people who you could tell wanted to, you know, just enjoy themselves in a normal space, they felt like they had to keep up airs and talk about what everybody was talking about and do the things that everybody was doing while in that space. Um, because I I was invited, I was invited guest of the bowling group. And, you know, one of the people who was there, I knew for a fact, was not into sports, but was like forced to talk about basketball and football and you know different sports that they're not, you know, that they don't want to talk about. And if it was a different conversation, they probably would have been more comfortable. But it was like to keep up airs, to keep up the status quo, they were being forced to do something else. So, anyway, real quick experience from yesterday. I just thought it was interesting that that, you know, happened right before this conversation because I wanted to first ask each of our panelists to describe an experience where they feel like blurred, I guess a black space that blurs either weren't uh expected in or weren't, you know, normalized in, or maybe you as a blurred were uncomfortable in. Um, because again, we've talked about in the past each of us having you know experiences where we had to mute ourselves as blurs. Um and uh I guess we'll start with uh the doctor.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah, sure. Um, you know, it's interesting because I think I haven't had this in a big, let's say, um, dedicated black space, you know, recently. But something that happens a lot that I've noticed is whenever, you know, sometimes I go to the gym and I'll wear like, you know, some nerd chip to the gym, like a shirt or whatnot, or like some Pokemon on it, or anything like that. And, you know, I go to a, of course, in this area, predominantly black gym, it's probably 80, you know, yeah, 80% black or so. Um, and I noticed I do get a lot of stares and like a lot of um, you know, unusual reactions. And I remember I was having a conversation with a guy one time who asked me about my shirt, you know. It was just like a Pokemon shirt with the evolutions and all that. And I said, Oh yeah, I know, but you know, Pokemon stuff and whatnot. Like, yeah, there's his, you know, talking a little bit about it. And he said, Oh yeah, you know, I just always heard that stuff was witchcraft and whatnot. And like, I didn't think black people fuck with that. Like it was what? Yeah, like I'm witchcraft, yes. And it was it was something, and it made me think, um, and I guess this ties into kind of I think what drives a lot of this um larger issue around black nerd stuff not being accepted in black spaces, it has to do with what gets attributed to whiteness. And a lot of black spaces, uh, especially a lot of like, I'll say majority black spaces as in, you know, more like heterosexual, more like uh less nerd-leaning, and like just majority in other ways, um, tend to ascribe whiteness to things you don't like, you know, or things that are unconventional in some way. So, and that could be like um, you know, we still haven't gotten past the whole like idea of anime being a white thing, even though there are hella black people who love anime, like many black celebrities who vocally love anime, like there are still a lot of black people who think like, oh, anime is just white, like that's a white people thing, you know, with video games. Yeah, or it's cartoon, like same thing with video games, where there are still like a lot of black spaces where if it's a video game other than like Madden 2K or Call of Duty, then like, oh no, like that's white people shit, you know. And I think like my experience kind of in the gym around some of that really reflected some of these larger issues around like you know, just things that black communities stigmatize, or majority black communities stigmatize, that kind of get ascribed to whiteness and then are seen as this external thing. We're like, oh, like you're not acting like one of us, you're weird, you know. And really, like, no, there are, I mean, at this point, like there are so many black people who love these things. Like, it's not, we're not like an unusual niche part of the community, like we're a huge portion of the community. So, you know, it's um it's always a little bit disappointing to see that happen. Um, you know, when it comes to I guess being ostracized from within.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

No, that's a very good point. Um, I didn't even think of you said the witchcraft thing, and I was like, I I didn't think people were still thinking that in this day and age, because that was a thing.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

Okay, like what like why how do you look at a Pokemon and be like, ah, witchcraft? Like, I don't like witchcraft and Pokemon, like, I don't see the connection.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

There's not a good one. There's not a good one.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

But uh a lot of us, I think a lot of us grew up in churches where, especially when we were younger, where that was really reinforced. Like, I remember my church back in the day. As soon as I'll say, as soon as Ash lost the Pokemon League that first time, that was when like on WB and Fox and uh all the other channels, you know, Pokemon was like every day after you get out of school, same thing with Yu-Gi-Oh! Um, there's like two more shows, Pokemon Yu-Gi-Oh! Digimon, and it was like one more that they like specifically was like, it's witchcraft, you can't watch it. Parents ban it from all the children's houses. Don't when they come home, you know, either have them read the Bible or have them watch the news, just something like that. Some random shit. Like that.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

I definitely see them saying that about Yu-Gi-Oh!

SPEAKER_03 12:16

like oh yeah, you summoned me.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

Yeah, I can see that. But like Pokemon, they I mean, they're like they look like little cartoon animals. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't see.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

But they have powers though. So like anything dealing with mysticism of any sort, um, as loosely as it is, uh, I do know that a lot of a lot of foreign households as well. I thankfully I just didn't care. I had to watch whatever wanted to watch, but I did hear from my Niger friends and my Korean friends that anything that dealt with cartoons or Harry Potter, when Harry Potter came out, people lost it.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Well, it's that's one in one. Come on now.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

It wasn't witchcraft. But anything in that spectrum, anything with miss mystical cartoons, anything with mystical cartoons or anime to Harry Potter, they combined everything together. It didn't matter. Everything was the same. It didn't matter if it was a little bit of mysticism. Oh my gosh, you have Squirtle and you know Pikachu. Nope. Demons, demons, demons, they're they're spirits or whatever. And so any they they kind of combined all of it together. Um, of course, you had what was really like witchcraft, and then what was like a little bit of witchcraft, but any type of witchcraft was bad. So they didn't really care about the spectrum of things. And try it kind of was if it wasn't educational at all, and I mean like Arthur. Um, it's amazing how Arthur is the quintessential black cartoon that all black kids could watch, but not nobody else can watch anything. It was weird. But Arthur, I think that was the peak cartoons that black families are okay with watching. Anything outside of that was was was not was not it.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

He was the only one that looked like us, sadly.

SPEAKER_04 14:09

That's very good.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

A whole other conversation. Um so uh no, but yes, the doctor, you uh I think you made a that's a really good point. You know, certain people, because if you if you, you know, and if you're using what Cyon A just said, if when we were younger, certain households, certain churches, certain communities all agreed and grouped up, and this was their mindset, this is their decision, you know, as I and A said, and same thing as mine, I just kept watching it. Like, you know, I listened, I'm not gonna edit this to my mind, I never failed to an extent. Um, but I didn't outright, you know, hey, I'm turning this on whether you like it or not, you know, I ain't the one and them kids. Um, but it made it all the more attractive to watch. I'm not gonna lie. The the make saying I can't watch it, I'm like, well, what's all the hype about? Let's flipping fruit. Precisely. What's all the hype about? Um, I think at the beginning I ended up watching it at other people's houses, and eventually, you know, it would come on a time so my mom wasn't even either home or, you know, paying attention, so it really didn't matter. But for other people, it was like a lockdown. Some people, you know, they had the grandmama's house who's, you know, a Bible thumper, you know, she'll damn near turn off the TV, unplug it, and you can't even watch anything. That's why a lot of people don't even watch TV to this day. It's because they were in households that didn't watch TV or did watch certain things. So having somebody walk up to you and say, Oh, I thought that was of the devil or witchcraft, it's kind of like, well, they never reached a crossroads. Some of us did, where they either either it were enabled to watch TV again or enabled to start watching cartoons in anime, and it just carried on until where they're an adult. So they're just like, Oh, that's okay to watch now. I mean, that you might have changed that person's life. You might go home and you know, start, hopefully, Google's the right stuff, but you may go home and start watching anime and Pokemon and stuff, because you you type in the wrong words and peek at you, peek at you, you know, it's just anyway. Um but uh Sayonet, you made really good points. Uh, do you have uh an experience where, I mean, as you you know, you just mentioned, you know, you were uh very rambunctious and rebellious individual, but did you have a moment uh in your past where you had that experience of kind of your blurdom being uh not accepted or not expected in this space?

SPEAKER_04 16:31

Absolutely. Recently, actually, last year, and it was quite shocking, especially with anime and blurred culture being more mainstream compared to how it was even like five years ago or even ten years ago. Definitely much more mainstream now compared to our childhood. I was really excited to see apparel, anime apparel, and like Hot Topic, which I never really saw. Um, Journeys, Spencer's, like all these places you're starting to see a lot of anime apparel, all of the younger generation, and like I base things off of my nephew who's in high school. So his friends talk about anime, and I'm I'm really excited. I'm like, oh wow, and you know, these are black children that are into anime and and they're so excited getting more into cosplay.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

So when not expecting us to know anything about it. I'm sorry, I just had to throw that in there because I thought you're you're completely right. Like, you know who Saitama is, bitch, if you don't get out of my place.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

I'm sorry, sorry. It's it's so interesting, like the lingo, like hey, you know, Nene, uh, this is tough. Do you know what tough means? I'm like, little boy, I know what tough means. Shit, that was ours. But I love this, you know, young generation. They're they're so precious with uh what they what they think they know, what if they don't. But I went to um Bowie State had an anime spotlight that I was a guest star on, which was really nice. And I was excited, I'm going to HBCU, you know, which is my school, and like, oh wow, you know, I can't wait to show these classes class of our peers my consequences. And it wasn't any body paint. I I I you know I I don't just kind of dip my feet in with black people, so I didn't even go all the way balls deep that I couldn't. And I just I just wore, I would say, a corset, and it was like a period piece inspired, period piece inspired, corset address, and like a little fascinator in my hair simple compared to what people know how I can go. It was very simple. And I was incredibly shocked to see young black students look at me like I was an alien from outer space. It was very strange. And it took me back to middle school seeing kids being bullied. Thankfully I never was, but I just just seeing what they had gone through. You know, kids wearing Naruto headbands and they were being ostracized. And, you know, if you watch anime, you were white. And again, I just didn't fucking care. I was like, yeah, okay, whatever. I I like it. You're just whack and you know, it's cool, you're missing out. I just didn't thankfully I just did not care. But a lot of children, a lot of black children were bullied because they liked something that was quote unquote not black enough, or we're gonna take your black heart away. So to see that I would say experience again in my 30s in a in a different generation where anime and culture is a lot more accepting and it's mainstream, it was so strange. It was very weird. I felt like, oh God, am I am I wearing what I'm wearing? Is it weird? Like, and I shouldn't feel that way. I really like second guessed myself in the times that I was cosplaying, never second guessed how how how I felt wearing something. I could go into Ross a full bodysuit and just to, you know, just to you know, to be anxious, you know, kind of scare people and I loved it because it was cool and it was fun. But uh but I wasn't expecting that from my own people. But then again, it all it's it I took that same outfit and I went to Baltimore and I had a completely different reception, and that was of our people. So I think a lot of times as black nerds, we have to venture out of our neighborhood because just because once a certain a particular group of black audiences, they might not be used to it, they might not be like, Oh wow, that's that's not cool. That's we don't do that here in Baltimore. I had people that were in their 70s, 80s with the cane. I had good niggas like, yeah, it's queen, like it was just so funny. It's a completely different audience, and that gave me a lot of hope that this is a generation that's before me and they were accepting. So I think really what it is is that a certain group probably didn't have the opportunity to get into that type of nerd culture. They and a lot of times when we are younger, we are taught to not like things that are artistic as well because it won't make money. I remember when I was um, I wanted to be an artist when I was younger, and my parents were like, yeah, it's cute and all, but you're not, you can't make money out of that. So not that they weren't supportive, but a lot of times I noticed that in the black community, we are not, we are not, I would say, promoted to like things that are not going to be profitable for us. Or we need to be in the medical field, we need to be in engineering, we need to be something that's going to make us money. So it makes no sense wasting time looking at things like cartoons or anime, because that's not going to benefit us. And that is a huge disservice to us and our artistic nature that we could have that could blossom into something else that could be profitable. But a lot of times the older generation, because they probably didn't didn't have that opportunity. They just doing what they know. And so we were not encouraged to like art or to become be, I would say, engaged into art. We wanted, they wanted to put more focus on something that could be more lucrative, um, to be more serious, um, to be able to, I would say, be in be in leagues with with the white people because we have we're constantly being beating on our head, we have to be better, we have to do twice as hard. So there's no no time for fun and looking at cartoons and and and dressing up where you could be studying and we can do both. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

I know I went on a long pan here, but no, no, I I I think what you said is I said three points to go back to. Like, for one, I agree with what you said about seeing a lot of anime-inspired stuff in Spencer's and Hot Topic and Journeys. What was interesting is like when they first started putting a lot of that, because you know, a lot of this stuff was just goth, right? I'm I apologize, I probably shouldn't say goth again, but you know what I mean. Um, it it wasn't what we would the black community would normally see as normalized stuff, like you said, it'd be white stuff. So we wouldn't even go into those spaces. And I think when I first found out that, because it's been there for a very long time, it just was more retro, the cowboy bebops, the the berserks, those types of things, you know, blood, go, goth, got, gore, and a bunch of different things that were predominantly on those on that apparel. And then eventually when it started transitioning, by that time we were already looking in those stores. I feel like the mainstream thing is these kids that you're talking about, the younger generation, they can go to Ross, they can go to Macy's, they can go to Target, they can go to you know Dollar General, and they can find anime cartoon-inspired clothing where we had to ask a parent or parental unit or a guardian to take us to a mall just to get to a hot topic of spencors, something like that, just to find the clothes, because you know the internet wasn't a thing, so we have to go to it. So, you know, I I do I like that point because it it's it wasn't mainstream in terms of finding it, and it was in places that were associated with, like you said, this is a white place, or that's what white people do, or you know, that ain't for us. And it was frowned upon unless you were, like you said yourself, I don't give a shit, or you were a group of people who were like-minded, like I was blessed enough to interact with people like uh Shamie B back in high school and Idro. So we would go to the mall, and because we both were interested in anime and gaming and stuff like that, two or three are gathered, as you know they say in the Bible. Uh, we were able to walk into Hot Topic. I was like, oh snap. I didn't know all this stuff was here. Um, so getting that opportunity and kind of being around people who were accepting, because there were plenty of people in high school who didn't understand it at all. But if you yourself or you with your group don't give a shit, then just go about your business. I was watching anime, I was playing Yu-Gi-Oh! I was doing all part of it was I didn't care. And I was like, as long as my household is fine with what I'm doing, and as long as my friends are cool with what I'm doing, I'm gonna give you what I'm doing. I don't really give a shit. Um, but the interesting point about what you said about you know going to buoy state and feeling self-doubt in something that you do on a weekly basis, on a daily basis, I feel is something that contributes to this topic. It's like we want to be ourselves blurrents, but then when we're in a black space, it's like we feel less than. It's like we feel um, it's like we're in a getting juicy. It's like I knew what I was walking into this, I knew who I am walking into this stuff. Um, I knew um, I know what I like and what the things I like to do and how I like to do them, but all of a sudden, because I've walked into this environment that I felt like I was going to be safe. I don't want to use the word safe because it makes it feel like it's you know, like a fear of being, you know, harmed in some way, shape, or form. But I I felt like I was going to be accepted, I guess is a better word. Um, primarily because I look like you and you look like me. The only difference is what I enjoy, just like the different things that you enjoy. You know, I don't, but it's it's very um, I I I definitely understand, you know, being I understand because especially for my company where I go around and a lot of the stuff that I have promotes blurred creations, um, taking that to certain places and feeling like, did I make the wrong decision? Should I not have brought this stuff here? Is this the wrong audience? Or, you know, is this above their heads? Um, yeah, it's it's it's a it's a it is a weird, it's it's not a friendly, it's not a nice feeling. Nah. It's good.

SPEAKER_05 27:22

So, um, first of all, I'm so sorry that uh Chine experienced that so recently, um, especially at Bowie State University, considering that Bowie State University hosts HBCUCon, which is to bridge the gap between Feaks at Large and Black spaces. Um, so that's a little disheartening that the students there uh made her feel unwelcome.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:00

And and and and another thing that I've uh just just working with HBC UConn is um I found out that Bowie State has a lot of um, I would say, I would say progressive programs that you wouldn't normally see at an HBCU. Um and and when I say progressive, I mean like things that um like they have classes for Afro futurism. Like, you know, like people like what other university do you know are reaching out of, you know, regular uh university curriculum to yeah, to include, you know, things that are out of the norm that we feel as a black community should also be included in. Um, you know, science, fiction, video games, like there, they have programs that specifically are tailored for to get our our people into these spaces. Um so I'm I'm a little taken aback at how the students will treat her in such a way, um, considering that their university is, I would say, I don't want to say like on the precipice, but like uh an HBCU that's doing things out of the ordinary in a specific way to get black, young black students into spaces that we are not normally accepted in, um, industry-wise. So yeah, that's uh that's really disappointing to hear. Um, and like I said, they host a home convention specifically for that purpose, yeah, yeah. Yeah, bridge that gap. So um yeah, it interesting, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

I was shocked. I was definitely shocked because I know CCB geek makes the um the HBT con there. So I was like, oh, I'm so excited, and you know that this is my first time going to a campus. Like I've never been to a campus before. And I was I was so excited because I'm like, okay, I'm going to uh HBCU that posts you know blurred content yearly. I know there's a committee, but I think I just maybe I came at the wrong time of day.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

I don't know, but the blur day here.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

I must have came when they clocked out. I don't know what the fuck was going on. But it was it was more so it and it wasn't that they necessarily treated me horrible. It was just I felt alien. Definitely. So I was walking and they'll look at me and they'll quickly look away. You know, kind of like how white people look at people.

unknown 31:07

Look at us.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

It was just walking and I was just, you know, felt so confident. They just looked at me and just looked away. Even like I would expect, like, what is that? What you wearing? No questions. No questions, no questions, like no, it was weird. It was, it was hella weird. Even white people would ask the fucking questions, like, what oh my god, what are you wearing? Like, what are you no questions? I was just walking and I went, I was walking around the campus. More so like um I walked in my car and I went to the communications. And this again, communications, not the science building. I understand that. This is the communications where you know they're they're used to seeing um, I would guess, different uh personalities and so on and so forth. But it was just very, it was very interesting. Uh maybe they didn't know what to what to take from me. I wasn't wearing a specific character as well. And that could be what it is. I wasn't wearing, like, let's say if it if I was wearing a Naruto character, if I was wearing um, you know, something from Sailor Moon, it might have been received better, more than like a period piece, because I wasn't really anyone specifically, I was just wearing a period piece outfit. So to be fair, it could be that I didn't look like anyone. I just looked like somebody that could be maybe wearing weird clothes, perhaps. But even still, shit. If I saw mice, I'm like, yes, bitch, that's cool, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

First of all, I know them little young magazine Virgin, so I was about to say, like, I I I I I I don't want, you know, we're talking about blurred in black spaces, and you know, uh not to play devil's advocate, but like one of the things that's becoming a black societal norm is the acceptance and allowance of the Yakotsky, or at least the clouds.

SPEAKER_05 32:59

So tie it.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

So like I I like using your point, uh Sayone, like I I don't like the fact that you're wearing a period piece, you know, and as you said, it's not like you were wearing Laura Olympus period pieces. You may not even wear full-on Bridgerton pieces, but it was, you know, just something elegant, and you feel as though you would have gotten more interaction from people if you wore a headband and some akatsu clouds. Like that bothers me.

SPEAKER_05 33:30

If she had wore a period piece with the Akati cloud, all of yes, all of y'all makes me laugh.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Yeah, yes, I agree. I agree 100%. And and it's funny because I hate Naruto, so that's why it's more frustrating. Naruto or Dragon Ball Z, if I dress up as friggin' Boma or Baal.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Oh, they would have spotted you out of the crowd, baby.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

They know that it's a Boma.

SPEAKER_04 34:07

It's very it's very annoying. Like, it's very annoying, but I I don't know. Should I should I be happy that at least black people know what Naruto and Dragon Ball Z is?

SPEAKER_05 34:20

No, that's a bare minimum.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yeah, it's not enough.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

Casual ass shit.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

You can't you can't expect anybody with melanated skin to have watched every quote unquote black movie in the 90s, yet all you can recognize recognize, not know, not you know, have watched but recognized Dragon Ball Z and Naruto. And half the time they don't really recognize it because they'll still call, they'll look at Goku and call him Luffy, and then they'll look at Naruto and call him Vegeta. Like it's it's not, it's not the same thing. It's not.

SPEAKER_05 34:54

Oh, I'm sorry, not even Luffy, Luffy, but or they just like my my mom, I love my mom, but she be like, oh, uh, she did buy me a Dragon Ball shirt. And she was like, Oh, I got you one of them uh anime shirts. Like, that's it. That's all she knows. At least she tried. At least you tried. But it's the anime. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

Yeah. So but but yeah, Tiff, it's uh more Miss Skittles. Um, I I don't know. Again, because I feel like school, even if you're in college, you're still amongst your peers, and there still is an uh an air of trying to impress. And I always say that people in groups are stupid, but people individually are very interested. So there there are different dynamics to that. You always want to impress, you all you know, in in their head, like, oh my gosh, like I would love to do that, but then they're friendly. You only it only takes one negative comment to say something that'll bring someone down, and that's how we are. Right, exactly. And even in the cosplay community, uh, I think that's why a lot of people are are nervous to be in the cosplay community because of the negative comments, the racial comments, the just nasty comments, but more specifically, the comments from black people that makes it very scary to get into cosplay. We uh maybe we don't have the uh we don't we don't we don't have the sex appeal. And that that for some reason that's my biggest issue. If we are cosplaying within the blurred community, we have to have sex sales. Like we have to have sex, and we could be bare minimal shit. We can wear like a fucking t-shirt and we could write, you know, Goku on it. Oh my god, it's so hot. We want 10,000 likes, 10,000 likes, but you'll have Miss Gittles fucking spending years on building wings and uh whole armor and shit.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Why don't you try to get Miss Gittles started?

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Miss knows Miss Gittles knows you'll have hours, money, broken shit, trying to get the best gossip. And 10 likes, 20 likes, maybe 100 likes, and it's like it's just and it's it's not about the likes, but it's about the appreciation because we're doing this to show our craft and we love appreciation. We don't need a huge fan base to feel appreciated, but we love to see that our effort is making sense. Like, look what we've done. It's like a kid who drew something for for their mom. Mama, look, it's a stick figure, but mama, look at this, look at this argument. It's amazing. And because we love positive affirmations, no matter I don't care what anyone says, we love getting positive feedback, and it's really hurtful from our own community that focuses on well, her body don't look good, or his body don't look good, or their body don't look good, or their hair could have been better, or well, it's cute and all, but I like this one because it's more mainstream. We love Goku, we love Naruto, and it's it's it's annoying as shit. And that I think that uh for a cosplayer, it for a black cosplayer, it can be very damaging because we uh uh the black community can give accolades to non-black people more so than our own people, and we just don't understand why our own people can't congratulate us, but they can congratulate Sally and Susie and Tom, Dick, and Harry, but not our own people. All right, I'm done, my rant. I'm done, I'm muted.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

No, but you know what? Like, no, it's and it's really it is really disappointing, and it makes me think about how a lot of black cultural norms that we have that are somewhat used and helpful for defense when it comes to you know external stuff or like you know, dealing with white experience and all that stuff, when we apply them internally, they can create issues. So, like the idea of minding your own business, you know, like so, you know, don't get involved with something that's like, oh, you don't understand that, just keep your distance, mind your business. That's you know, that's a very like black family thing that gets reinforced. Like, oh, you know, you see someone acting crazy over there, just mind your business, don't get involved. But when it's just when it comes to something like, oh, you've never seen someone worry something like this before, you know, you treat it with this distance and this othering and whatnot that then just harms that person. Or when you're talking about, you know, all the stuff around um body type of cosplayers, like it makes me think a lot about how we're top to really hyper-value presentation. Because the idea is you have to look perfect and desirable and you know, you have to be perfectly on point to make it in this world that, you know, ostracized us so much. So like everything has to be, you know, exact and precise and all of that. And in doing that, you know, we actually end up really like stigmatizing ourselves and saying that, oh, well, you know, or telling each other that, oh, well, yeah, if you're not, you know, this particular perfect body type for this or what we find desirable, then you're not going to get the attention. You know, it's almost like the general or the bigger presentation issue when it comes to like you're like saying, oh, black people pull up your pants and all that, like it's a lot like that, you know, this idea that, oh, well, you're saying it to prepare us for this outside, you know, external like racism and all that, but you're reinforcing it in us. So like now you're becoming the issue. Yeah, you know, like, you know, it's not, you know, you know, it's not really, it may not be the white people who are necessarily saying it directly to us, it's our own people who are saying, like, oh, you need to do this and this and this, you know, and that's where a lot of the harm comes in. So it's it's complicated, you know, it really is. And it's has a lot of unfortunate outcomes, I think, with how we navigate, you know, both white supremacy, but then what that does within our communities as well.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

I'm sorry. Okay, so I it's funny. So I was about to make a funny, right? Uh, based off of the end of what you just said, but then I literally just have like a white versus black battle in my head. Like, oh no, black people won't like you use that as a joke. And I was like, well, why does it matter? You're on the Blurred Spectrum podcast. No, but you want the black people to listen. Literally, because what I was going to say was, why'd you have to go just be so complicated? Right? And then, you know, nobody's gonna understand what Avrolavine is, you know. But then I was like, let me find a black song that uses the word complicated, and then I found this whole tangent in my head, like, damn, I'm not even listening to what he's saying. He's saying what you're saying in your head.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Um like a meta example in real time.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

Oh my god. But um, Miss Skittles, if you would like to share any series that you're thinking.

SPEAKER_05 42:07

So I'm I feel like I'm kind of the odd one out, and it's maybe maybe it's because I I when I'm navigating spaces, a lot of times I'm like I'm tunnel vision. So I like I'm I if I'm in a space, I'm there for a reason, and I'm paying attention to that reason, and then like everything else, you know, going on in the background or whatever, doesn't really matter to me. I have had experiences um as a blur in general in spaces, um, but I have not, I can I cannot say honestly that I have a moment in my head where I was in a black space and I and I was doing my blurdy thing and I was like, yo, they not they not fucking with me. Like, oh like I I've I've never I don't think I've ever experienced that. And if and if it was going on, I was completely oblivious to it because um, especially as an adult, um, like in my childhood, I I mean I've always been a blur, but um in my childhood, I didn't I would say it was just it was just me. I was just doing my thing, and I don't feel like I paid too much attention to whether or not people were treating me a certain way because I was a blur or because they just didn't like me. Because I I was bullied uh like all through middle school, and but I don't know that it was because I was a blurt. I think it it was a spectrum of reasons. Um but as an adult, I can honestly say because I am unapologetically blurdy, um my my my normy friends or people. in black spaces have been very accepting of it. Actually, it's it's like I have like I have friends who who knew that I was into it, but now that it's just like I wear it out. Like it's just me who I am now, you know, they they send me stuff. Although our community is very small. And I see most of these things and halftime I'm friends with these people, especially in the cosplay community. They they say, oh I saw this and I thought of you and they'll send me stuff like um my mom has always been very supportive of you know me being a cosplayer. And my dad is the reason why I got into video games and cartoons that extended into anime and things like that nature. So I I can honestly say that I haven't been in a black space where I felt somebody was looking at me weird because I was a blur. If anything I've had like I said I've had my normy friends be, you know, they've been very supportive they have questions. They you know if oh when are you gonna take me to a convention do you really want to go to a convention because you're not about to cramp my style when you're ready to go and that's the thing okay but um but I I noticed the effort to to um to be included in those aspects of my life not just you know like I have friends call me like oh you know what's going on you know what you've been up to what you get into whatever and they make an effort to be like so what you know what's the next cause thing you're working on um and and I love that um so uh but I have I I will not say that you know it doesn't exist I have I have friends in in blurred spaces who have experienced um you know strange things I mean you all are here so it is um I know everybody is not as lucky as me to have not experienced those things or or been so oblivious that they just did not care. Because sometimes that's what I chop it up to like oh if if if I was somewhere and somebody was looking at my I don't know uh attack on Titan shirt like what the fuck is that demon thing on her shirt and why is she like and and I probably didn't pay no mind because I'm like doing my thing. Like I'm here for a purpose and that's what I'm doing. If you was looking at me and you like what the fuck is this girl into like I probably missed the whole thought process because because because gener generally like I don't care like I I have I have I have been to like per perfect example Baltimore I mean not Baltimore um who's gala cosgala and baltimore I stayed in a a hotel near you know the the um venue and um I walked in and out of lobby with with my full full cosplay on one contact in one out like and you know um I mean there there are people that you know looked at me strange but again I don't it it's not necessarily a black space I have black people look at me strange and shit I had a I had a lady call me a damn demon a black lady not a demon yes it was we're diving into these people we're diving into them on the way to HBCUConn and and I was stormed and I had my contacts in and she saw first she saw the gold and white she was like oh you're beautiful and then when I turned to look at her she did she did me one of these yes she said ooh ooh you should have hit that all I could do was laugh it just was hilarious to me um but uh I mean you know stuff like that has happened but again it's not in a black space it's just in general like people see shit and they like what the fuck uh but again it doesn't bother me uh this is who I am so gonna ask the question what would you consider and I'm I'm I'm asking the question as Kittle what would you consider a black space in your opinion? So that is a good question. Um black space um I mean so I would say an HBCU for one that's definitely but um a black space uh to me is like I I I guess it would be more so like a curated event or you know some place specifically where black people gather um like I I mean a black space could be your family cookout and you show up you show up with your Naruto band on and they like the fuck what is that on your head like so I mean um I mean generally speaking I just feel like it's a space specifically curated for for black people okay because well I guess I'll use my interpretation of it so from and as we've been having this conversation I started like think back on like experiences back in high school and before then and well let me go back a little bit further.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

So middle school and elementary school that's when you know Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were hot. So you know everybody got your trading cards everybody got your Yu-Gi-Oh cards you know decks upon that I had like boxes of Yu-Gi-Oh cards don't ask me how I got them out but you know we're just playing all the time and it became it was so normalized and people everywhere in the school were playing it so much because I went to a predominant I live in the predominantly black area of Christ County. Yeah so in that area you know most people in school were black and you know as you know when you're middle school high school things get clickish and you find the people that you gravitate towards or you stand alone and you do whatever you want to do. I eat Saiyne. But in those spaces you know I gravitated towards people who were playing Yu Gi Oh and and initially I felt apprehensive because I had the cards but I didn't want to bring them to school because I was worried you know how people treat me. And it's it's always interesting because thinking about your experience as you've explained it about how it wasn't anything you ever thought about. You just we were yourself your father got you into it your mother was very accepting um you you know were tunnel vision doing what you wanted to do however you wanted to do it. But then thinking about my own personal experience and you know of course listening to the doctors and cyonase like something well you know obviously cyana's is almost similar to yours but um something in my mind made me think I have to consider who's gonna be there and what they're gonna be thinking about what I do and how I'm doing it. I'm assuming this has to do with how I was trained in my household um because one thing my mother always said is you know um make sure what you're wearing does not make it seem like your household didn't raise you properly I probably said that wrong but you know it's kind of like you know if you leave the house without your hairbrush they're gonna think you know what the woman that raised you what the father raised you. So kind of expanding expanding that mindset to your demeanor your language your you know how people view you is a is a mirror on how they view your household what you just walked out of. So because of that and I'm really breaking this down in my mind when I entered not just black spaces and I'll get to what my definition is in a second but any space my mindset is how am I effectively how is my household how is my family being judged based off of what I do what I say how I dress what I look like so going back into and keeping in mind I am a Nigerian so I'm an African when I go into most spaces it's based off of who's there because it's not most most of when I was younger it wasn't my space unless it was or quote unquote my space unless you know it's like one of my parents' friends' parties or something of that nature. So when I go to school that was a black space for me because everybody's black like 95% black maybe 98% and then when I went to uh on an errand with my dad to an office building that was a white space because most of the people in these office buildings are white. So it it changed of course based off of where I'm going and who is there for me. So it wasn't for me it wasn't about how this space is curated it's about literally what the population is in that area because for me with all the stuff going on at home anywhere I walked into that space was I'm not gonna say it wasn't for me. I had to either make it my own or I had to find a way for it to work for me while I was in it for that period of time. So when I would get to these spaces especially you know school where I have to be all the time I just had to figure out what made sense for me how while I was there. And I either had to uh adapt, adjust or I had to be as quiet as possible until I can get the fuck out. And that that's kind of how I operated like in middle school and elementary school I eventually figured out my own place and I found you know other of course we weren't blurred back then but I found the friends who were interested in the same types of things. Like I said I met people like well I didn't meet Mark and I didn't meet shampoo grace until high school but I met other people like Eric Orousu who has been on the podcast before among other people at those early age Kaze I met Kaze in ninth grade. So you know those types of people you know I met earlier on and they I was able to like figure out my own space but when I got into high school high school was a little bit different because you would think in this space where it's predominantly black and you know the people who I grew up with should be morphing into these spaces it's kind of what you see in like movies and and things where I think Sayone said it about how certain people are looking to say that way. Oh well she was talking about what happened in Bowie State where you grow into a certain environment and people kind of change. People want to you know that one person says that's not cool and because you want to be cool you listen to what that person says. So the same people who was playing Yu-Gi-Oh with you right before the summer now all of a sudden they want to be a jock they want to be a cheerleader they want to be this person they want to be that person they're they're how they present themselves how they view themselves or how they want to be viewed has now changed. And because of that now they become I hate to say this to sound like my niece they want to become an Ida they now want to be the individuals who are on the other side they don't like and again you you're not with these people 365 every minute of the day so you don't know when you were on the bleachers playing Yu-Gi-Oh y'all were hanging out you don't know what was going on for the rest of the day they could have been bullied by the popular kids they could have been you know maybe at home their parents are trying to force them to be an athlete or you know get better grades or whatever it is so because they want their life or their mindset or their peace to be different they're like what is the easiest what is the path of least resistance and if they think the most easiest path is to be joining with the people picking on the people who are doing something different then they're gonna do it. And they and you see it all the time in real life and in movies and TV shows where you used to be my friend what happened and it's that same person who's now picking on that person who was just minding their business and I I thought back to high school where for the first the majority of the first part of the year I just thought I was like I was wondering in my mind when I look back on high school why in the first part of that freshman year I was sitting in a corner well the back of the room not the corner um and I was just like minding my business but I had a hood on and my eyes were low kind of straight A's so I was paying attention it's not like I was failing class but I was like so focused and it was because I didn't want to be noticed and I didn't want to be visible because I didn't want somebody to point out something about what I'm wearing some about something about what I'm doing something about what I like and turn it into a reason or a way to ridicule me. And then eventually as the year went on further I was like you know what if people are going to see me I need to figure out a way where even if they were to say something it reflects badly on them. So then I started joining organizations. I started being a part of the things community like I went from an introvert to an extrovert real fast. I was like I was on I part I joined SGA and I was I joined the Financial Leaders Club and I'll join the Dean's List Club and uh the uh talented and gifted and then I I some movie made me join the homecoming committee like this is I just started joining things I was like you know what give this shit you're not gonna make fun of me why because I'm gonna be everywhere if you make fun of me you make fun of everybody bitch that's what I'm gonna say what so that was that's what I was doing but then thinking about what you all have said it's like I was I never lost my quote unquote blur groups but I know during that year I stopped doing so many blurry things that I would have normally done I didn't play video games as much I didn't have the time I didn't hang out with like friends who were into Yu-Gi-Oh and stuff because I was doing everything else so I was I wasn't in the same clicks and not clicks but groups and stuff and it was so weird because I was like wasn't I just hanging out with you a couple weeks ago but then like if I wasn't joining the clicks right I wasn't joining the jocks and everybody else but because I'm in their organizations now it looks like it looks like I'm with them. So when they start pointing fingers at the people I was just hanging out with now it looks like I'm a part of those groups. And it it turns it into this and again because the school is a black space each community has its own individual groups inside those spaces. There's going to be people interested in sports there's gonna be interested people in the anime there's gonna be people interested in nitty there's gonna be people interested in you know cars or everything else so kind of going along with what you said Miss Skittles about having that tunnel vision you came here for a particular purpose if you're not here to mingle with people who have your interest in mind and you're just there to get your job done, go to school, go to work, whatever you're doing and then go back home, then you don't have to worry about the clic and the different individual groups in the space. So it for you it no longer becomes a black space or a white space or whatever space it's just a place you had to go to get your job done and get out but for others where we're trying to and we want not trying to but want to interact with people maybe sometimes have to there's a mentality where oh for me to get along with this person they either have to like me they have to want me there they want me to something I've there's so many different ways to look at it. It depends on purpose's experience I know for me I was in such like weird experiences in high school that you know what people wanted it slowly became not what I cared about. You know once you get into a relationship with somebody who used to be a lesbian and then she cheats on you publicly with like another lesbian in the middle of the school um you don't really care what people think anymore. Yeah personal story there's a lot there is a lot to unpack so much real quick real quick um yeah so yeah you start not caring what people think about you yeah yeah and that's where and that's where that I came to school with my cards the next day was playing video games I had my gay boy I think I had my uh was it 3DS at that time no it wasn't 3DS yet I'm uh the what's the little flat book on the SP I had my gay boy SP sitting there playing I think I had it wasn't fire red yet I was playing something I forget it might have been Emerald I was modding my I didn't give a shit you couldn't tell me nothing I I remember because I was not that I was dressing differently because I remember that year was the year I forced my dad to give me Jordans for the first time and he spent a bunch of money on it like it was this whole thing and I think after all of that happened like I was like fuck it I went back to wearing you know footlocker shirts blue jeans and shoes brought my game boy to school and I just minded my business got my grades and went about my business.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

Because at that point I was like like you said in the skills I was there for a purpose to get in get out my real friends aren't here they're elsewhere I'm good so I'm sorry the the doctor yeah no man it's god it's so interesting because it makes me think of you know especially hearing how you both kind of define black spaces I would think of so I think of black spaces um in terms of both ones that are specifically curated for black people and designed for black people and ones where um you know they weren't designed specifically for black people but we have we happen to be the majority for a number of reasons maybe geography you know many other things I think those are both black spaces I think those are fundamentally different black spaces and I noticed that in my experience you know whatever like a lot of the bullshit I get is from spaces that are nominally black spaced or not nominally but like they're black spaced in the sense of oh it's all black people here but this is a more general space. So it doesn't have a certain level of unity as a core tenant the way that a lot of other like really dedicated black spaces tend to so you know black spaces that you know mostly like almost entirely heterosexual like you know diverse across a bunch of groups but like they're touted as oh this is a black space so like we are accepting of every black person who comes in here like you know we're accepting of all different forms and types of blackness because you know there's a whole range of the way blackness can be expressed experienced in all these intersections. And I think these I guess what I'll call like secondary or like unintended or non-curated black spaces often don't have that. And so it's a lot easier for those spaces to you know really start to force you to conform in a certain way that's not really like who you are. It's easier for those spaces to ostracize you more like I think of you know the gym in my example because it's happened more than a few times there. It's happened more than a few times even just in like general club spaces you know I've noticed when it comes to people dressing a certain way or like wearing like you know if people wear a term like third apparel in a club like you always get you know a few people who give them just like crazy looks like oh my God. I was like I mean you you've never seen a controller on a shirt before like that's not I don't know what it's just I just thought about that I did that before and I definitely she was like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:15

I was like minding my business what I was wearing a wrestling shirt in a club and it because it was black and white and it matched what I was wearing. It looked clean to me and she was like what are you doing? I was like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

I I spent a certain number of dollars on mine you spent a certain number of dollars on yours I I guarantee my shirt costs more than yours though this is special edition catch me ask that what like and it definitely just makes me think that these spaces like once you have a certain number of black folk like you have to be more intentional about making that a curated black space like you should because that's your clientele that's your audience and like that's how you make it a better space overall um but you know you really it does need that intentionality to help address some of these issues that are just way too complicated.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:12

Yes Ms I no I I agree I agree that I feel like we all have our own version of what a black space is and like the doctor was saying you can have a black space but that it's more heterosexual it's not really queer accepting from what I've seen um in the mainstream of what a black space is. For me what a black space should be is that it should be all walks of life that are black and it's not that very often it's not that at all. It's black spaces are sections on okay you have black anime faces. Then you have black spaces when you know who likes cooking and you have black and butcher fine because you have different degrees of black spaces but they're not all seen as we accept everyone. All these black spaces are kind of separate. They have their own clicks, which I find is not I don't know what I I I have not I've yet to see what a black space of all is. I would with the exception of there is a bonnet there is a black bonnet space on Facebook and it's probably the most hilarious bonnet because that to me is a true black space. You have all walks of life there but there it's femme it's femme black women or femme femme black presenting individuals who all have bonnets and who all talk shit but it is a a a safe space for queer non-queer but you just have to be a black femme presenting person. And it's the most hilarious hilarious space and I love it because it's very there's no drama from what I've seen at Miss Skittles I know you're probably a part of the the the bonnet um oh no oh wow there's a lot of cosplayers black cosplayers in there and it is the the most funniest thing you'll see like Beyonce having a bonnet on you'll have you'll see like um oh can can you hear me yes oh okay yes you'll see like you'll have memes with like you know cats with a with a bonnet on and nails or Mercury retrograde with like um braids and uh Mercury and then a bonnet on top it's the fun it's the funniest damn space but that to me is what a black space is where people can have fun it doesn't matter your creed it doesn't matter anything but you just have to be black and that one is them is is specifically and bonnets. So that but there it doesn't matter like if you are the best cosplayer the worst cos well the worst cosplayer quote unquote or someone who just put on something you know like for what people would see at all you know they don't cosplay that great or or or you know you you don't have it doesn't matter you just have to be black and femme and that's all they care about. And to me that was the only space I can say that is a black space because you have all everybody there. I see my friends my family I see cosplayers but they all are just fun loving and we just talk shit and have bodits on our heads and I think that to me that is a black space. I wish there were more spaces that were just fun loving and black like that because where we can talk about our our our experiences of being black and I being black is such a wonderful and magical experience. And to come together yes we can look at each other across the across the room and we can give that black look and we all know that black it's true and that is a sense of community and camaraderie that no other race that I of course I can't speak for but but I know that black people doesn't matter if we are from Africa it doesn't matter if we're from the Caribbeans it doesn't matter if we are African American it doesn't matter as long as we're black we all have that that connection that is so unique to us. And that that's why I feel like it is imperative that we we really do have true black spaces where there isn't drama or um politics in the sense of policing on how or gatekeeping is we're just being black we're loving ourselves we're loving one another and we just have all positive good vibes and again that's the only group that I can say that but it does exist and we can do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:42

It's just that I feel like sometimes it's just too much policing and gatekeeping of shit and it doesn't make it a true black space that it should be Miss Kittles you were about to say something early oh okay no I I I definitely agree uh well not about this space because I haven't been there either but I I did it did make me want to ask a question because we're wrapping up in a second but it made me want to ask a question because you you brought up the fact uh Sayone you brought up the fact that that space is what you feel as though is a true black space a true accepting uh black space and I've had conversations before about people's levels of comfortability in different areas in different environments uh with you know the doctor I've had the conversation with Miss Kittles the pet the podcast excuse me uh Lady Legacy it's different people and not to single any group out any person out or anything like that um but and I the the problem is I feel like there isn't anybody to defend this point and I'm not going to uh but what I'm gonna say is uh because it's not fair because I know the three people on this panel today um but it seems as though the reason why there can't be a true black space is because of the concept or the construct of learned masculinity and I say that because anytime like I think it's funny I think back to uh one of the episodes I always do this of Living Single it's like a pilot episode and uh they're you know talking about black uh men and stuff like that and they're like have you ever thought about it if you know there were no men in the world what would it be like and I believe it was uh Queen Latifah's character Khadijah she was like uh a bunch of uh uh happy black happy fat black women with no crime is I believe how she responded and the continuation of a lot of different conversations that I've had is that you know the the the the main kind of line right in every conversation is certain levels of masculinity are the reasons why individuals feel somewhat uncomfortable in certain spaces. And I know we're talking about blurred in black spaces but uh the the doctor actually brought up one point about how you know certain learned things in the black community make other groups feel uncomfortable. Not other groups like you know other you know non-people of color but other groups in terms of the subgroups within the black community make certain people feel uncomfortable. When you're in a room and you're a bunch uh and you are you know uh uh queer right it's not a it's not because a black man walks into the room that you feel uncomfortable but it might be some of the proto-toxic masculinity statements that he may say that makes you feel uncomfortable it may be the learned masculinity uh uh actions that he the bravado that he puts on the airs that he feels like are necessary that make you feel uncomfortable same thing as if you are a blurred you're blurred in school or not in school you're minding your business watching your anime playing whatever game you want to play and this macho man who feels as though his stereotypical what masculinity is supposed to be comes up and says why are you watching that that's not cool now you feel like why am I in this space? What did I do wrong? I was minding my business so just to me listening to what we've all said and I'm not saying it's masculinity in general I'm just saying it's the learned masculinity that seems to be what causes the issues in a lot of these different places especially in the black community because if anything learned masculinity doesn't come from black people it comes from white people it comes from what they put on TV what they put in books what they put in schools as what's supposed to be right and what's supposed to be dominant and what's supposed to be leading and what's supposed to be the formalized foundation of a lot of what we're supposed to be doing or handling or interacting with. So if that's what we're brought up on if that's what we're learning and that's what our root is then anything that deviates from that norm or societal norm is as the doctor was saying what what what deviates from what's the norm people say what's wrong with that that's that's not right. It's not white so it's not right. So it makes everybody feel awkward.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:35

Go ahead Doctor Yeah no I mean that's absolutely you know I think really the big driver ultimately I think is that white supremacy overall and I don't think we realize how much even in like black spaces uh white supremacy gets injected you know so and it gets injected into a lot of our cultural norms including masculine norms you know which is you know a huge factor in that as well so I think a lot of it comes down to this idea that we often think of blackness in terms of how it is relative to whiteness you know and you know in terms of like oh well you know white people are doing this so as black people we need to do XYZ you know all like white people get this so like black people need to do da da da and that's really not good enough it's really not like because it's yes you know there are all these issues you know both externally and internally caused by white supremacy but when we start policing our own using the same ways that white supremacy has policed us then we are creating a whole new set of problems and we're holding ourselves back. And I think so much of that comes through in like you mentioned the masculine norms you know in terms of you know what does it mean to be a black man oh well you can't like that Pokemon shit that's gay you know like you know in terms in terms of what I heard that one yeah like exactly like in terms of you know what it means to be a black woman you know in terms of what it means to be exist in these black spaces so yeah ultimately we've got to be self-reflective about that and that's something that you know I always try to encourage some of my more conservative and I don't mean conservative necessarily politically but like conservative in terms like old school you know black family members and you know friends too like you know we have to be more self-reflective about what we view as blackness and what we police as blackness because a lot of us police blackness really heavily and we don't even realize we're doing it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:42

You know and that's something usually when you start policing blackness super hard you know as a black person you're just doing white supremacy light yes light light a little bit of green that's good that is so good my gosh why we have the doctor white giving us her white supremacy hold the mayo hold the mail yes exactly as a quote that's a word what were you about to say oh no I I agree I agree 100% and to piggyback off of the doctor one of my classes that I'm taking this semester is Afro American history before 1865 very very interesting class and if you're black you must take it please take this class um because there's two parts two parts they have to before and after so I took both it was very enlightening very enlightening I wanted to take before because I know our school system sucks ass with really teaching us what what is Afro American history in this country and this is all states and especially now that they are trying to they are barring us knowing this history I I I weep for the younger generation because they they're going to be more ignorant than what we were because now they're making it a law that they shouldn't be taught at all with the BS that we were taught. They literally can't know about the history but um a lot of it was uh for for the ones who do not know much about uh the the founding of this this country and how a lot of the the the Africans that were stolen that were abducted into and brought to this country against their will you start to see how this country was developed with these Europeans and they on purpose would use African slaves to put us against our own people and then that all of that is from white culture. And then it seems like that has generationally been embedded in our DNA as people to we'll we think it's black culture but it really is white culture. All of it is unfortunately and we have to remember our own roots to kind of break away from that but that black policing like the doctor has stated is very true and we don't even know that it is based off of white culture. We don't want you black people doing we knowing your roots so we're going to silence your roots and we're going to now embed what we think is good. And I think that also kind of plays into the older generation teaching the newer generation don't do that. That's you know we don't want you don't you're not supposed to do that. And it's more so like this is what white people do and don't do what white people do. But again that is what white people has taught us to do that to kind of keep us to ourselves so that we don't branch out so that we have a mind of our own and that is our own people policing what white people wanted us to do to be we want to be subservient to be to ourselves to not branch out and have a mind of our own to box ourselves in to not think outside the box.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:21

And a lot of that is white culture and a lot of our people don't actually understand all of that is generationally what has been taught to us to not be our own people because there's nothing more terrifying than black people knowing the power that we have all of the the spaces all of the creativity the dances the art the music is from black people rock and roll black people a lot of art is black people so and again we're not taught that um I didn't even know that one of the founding uh first rock and roller rock and roll stars was a black woman and and uh you you would never know that you would never know that because that is not what's taught so I just wanted to to you know end that off but um to definitely pig it back off to the doctor all of that policing is from white people um this is from generations ago and we just have to be able as black people to break away from that and to not be afraid to be different um because we are the pioneers of creativity in this entire world see we give her an inch I'm done I'm muting I'm um yeah so uh I I really feel like this is I I said it before we started recording uh this episode that this is definitely going to be another conversation in the future I feel like there's a lot more to unpack with this um some other things I I feel like we might have learned is that we should definitely talk about each of our experiences not just as blurs in black spaces but now I'm thinking we need to also talk about you know being queer in black spaces uh I think that's I got some shit for that I got some stories too I think I think all of us have had uh our own individual experiences um I think that might be a much longer episode so we'll we'll definitely dive into that one um and then we'll we'll we'll we will respin back to this topic as well in future episodes maybe even a live episode uh but of course wrapping up this episode today I want to of course thank my panelists for joining me uh and uh talking about their different experiences I think we've uh really boiled down and were able to talk about certain things that we didn't think about we learned new things about each and every one of ourselves and I think each of us have a different perspective now uh newer perspective on not only what others consider black spaces but also um how others navigated spaces in general um because I I had no idea that MSQL's powered through most spaces I would as as much as we talk about like different situations I was sure you've experienced the same type of thing to say myself or Sayone the doctor has but knowing that your as you said your bullying in in earlier grades came from other reasons I I would love to dive deeper into that because I like I said you know I got I got a bunch of things to talk about you know I let one thing out of the bag that was completely incidental uh but it riled up anyway uh but want to thank my panelists for joining us today um give you each the opportunity to explain how you can be reached um I guess I'll do it again I'll start with myself uh Suchi no shogun um you can find me on IG Suchi T-S-U-C-H-I underscore no underscore shogun on IG uh blurred creations you can also find me at Blur Creations uh which is on TikTok uh Facebook and Instagram blur creations shop um then of course umbrellas arcade which is on Instagram Facebook YouTube Twitch and Twitter um and then of course well I'll say that at the end uh Ms. Skittles how do you be reached uh Ms M Z Z Skittles uh T-R underscore cosplay on Facebook Instagram and TikTok and then on Twitter it's M-I-Z Skittles2K0 also the doctor Robert T on Facebook Messenger yes messenger I'm not on main Facebook anymore but uh you know I do check messenger so gotcha uh Sayone Sayone cosplay on Facebook Scionay underscore cosplay on IG and Sione period cosplays at gmail.com awesome awesome and of course you can reach the entire Blurred Spectrum podcast on Instagram Facebook as well as on YouTube uh you can check out some of our interviews that we've done at different conventions uh different conversations we've had with different uh content creators and artists and business owners uh I'm really excited uh about uh 2023's melanated solstice that's gonna happen this summer um I think it's gonna be bigger than the last two years uh because we have even more content creators more artists more musicians more everything um so I'm really excited to kind of go in that direction and uh promote all of these different skilled individuals uh because you know how we love our black people and our blurs specifically um and then of course our mailbag uh theblur spectrum at combostark.com if you have any questions ideas for episodes uh messages for any of our panel uh feel free to send a message there or you know reach out to them directly uh and then um other than that as I always say Sayonada