SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast. We are here today to go over a topic that is near and dear to not only one, not only two, but I think all of our panelists' parts. Why? Because it talks about an a an important rite of passage? Uh, an important period of time in a young man's life. Honestly, in this day, it doesn't have to be a young man's life, but actually could be a young woman's life, or it could be a uh uh an older man's life, or it could be a widowed woman's life. Actually, it could be a variety of people's life. It could be a their or them or they's life. You know, it's a variety of things, but there is a lot of gatekeeping, honestly, in this particular block that I'm going off on a completely unnecessary tangent. This episode today is about the importance of fathers in the household, specifically the black household, the black community as a whole. I think a variety of different people have talked about this for decades. More importantly, it's become more mainstream in the last 20 to 30 years. Because as we've gone on in these last 30 decades, three decades, we've talked a lot about how the lack of it has become a detriment to the community as a whole and the and the detriment to potentially how people have grown up. So we have three panelists on today. Well, two panelists and moderator, Three's company, perhaps, uh, who have unique experiences uh regarding their uh almost like childhood traumas, that's probably unnecessary, uh, regarding their father uh uh experiences. Um of course uh today uh I'll introduce our two panelists, Ms. Skittles.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

Hello, hello, hello, Say.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

And then of course we have Sayone Cosplay.

SPEAKER_05 1:50

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

And then, of course, I'm here, your moderator, Suchito Shogun. Um, so you know, first I wanted to give all of our panelists, or both of our panelists, the opportunity to give a brief, if they will, but you know how we are, uh, description of the word father or fatherhood uh as it pertains to at this stage in your life, what is that, what does that word mean to you? Father or fatherhood, uh, dad, kind of the collaboration of all of those. Or if each of those are different, what are your definitions? And we will start one's pondering, one's busy doing stuff. Uh, but I'll ask uh Miss Skills first.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Um, so father, father, daddy, dad maybe.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Uh so I mean I feel like our father or fatherhood is I mean, it's basically the the individual who steps into that role in your life who makes you feel uh I mean supported by like you know the protector of you as a child. And adulthood, I I mean I would say that that reaches a few adulthood, but most importantly, as a child. Um to me it's it's it's just the individual that takes you know takes that step step up to to make sure your your your uh your health is good, you're taken care of, you you're supported, you're protected, you're teaching you, you know, teaching you things, valuable things about uh life as you move forward into adulthood. Um and then as an adult, just you know, that that person that you continue to go to. Um because you know, you don't stop, you don't stop being a father when your child is 18. So there's there's that continuation of all of those things that they uh essentially you know started out like this is it's not a honeymoon phase type deal. So they gotta continue that into your adulthood. I mean that's that's what fatherhood is to me. Um but uh you're not doing those things, you just affirm it on it.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

So that's how Miss Uh I was in Miss Cosplay. Sion A cosplay.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

I think fatherhood, like a true fatherhood, there they exhibit a couple pillars that are uh important to just how to be a person. And the pillars are leadership, security, and support, being able to be a point of reference in life. And I think fatherhood, it can they can have a masculine presence where you do feel more grounded, I would say, and you just know, like, well, I don't know what to do. Maybe I can ask my father. So usually the father or or the that male presenting or that masculine presenting figure is a point of reference on how to navigate life with with stability, and that is what fatherhood is to me in the truest sense.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

That's stability. Okay. So for me, I can definitely agree with both of you. Uh fatherhood, father, dad, um, daddy. Uh those concepts, uh, those words, those roles have for always meant to mean individual, as Shanai said, sorry, Saturn said, uh an advisor, a caretaker. Uh for me, it also means strength. It also means um for me, someone who should have a level of integrity, someone uh a leader, um someone who you you don't have to run to, but there's a almost like a chemical reaction where you would want to run to this individual person. And whoever that person is, like I said, you know, some people have verbalized my mother was my dad and my mom. You know, some people have verbalized, you know, I had a father-like figure in my life, I didn't, but I didn't have a dad. So, you know, for me, that it varies from person to person, from experience to experience. My definition of it though is is literally somebody who fills the role of someone whom has a strong representation in your life, like a like literally a a a just just probably the strongest figure in your life, an individual who you can rely on, and an individual who you want or choose to rely on, um, would be kind of fit that role. Um, and for some people that's a pastor, some for some people that's a coach, for some people that's one of their parental units, could be grandparent, it could be aunt or uncle, just somebody who they could. It could be a friend, um, uh depending on the age, sometimes even the age difference. So um all of those things kind of fit into that category for me. Um and I asked this question to first better give those listening an idea of where we're coming from individually when we give our reasoning behind how we feel about the importance of fathers in the community. Um, so I want to give each of our panelists the opportunity to go from their definition or description rather, to now why is it important? No, different question. Is it important for there to be a father in a family structure, in a in a black family structure, in in a black community structure? Is it important? Is it vital uh for a father to be there? And if it is, why? And I'll start with Simon McCosplay.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

And it all goes back to a point of reference, direction, being able to know where to go. And I think without that presence, a lot of children, a lot of individuals are lost, and it could be for both male presenting or female presenting. You look at your father, and more often than not, you think of your future partner and the the attributes that you want out of your future partner, and you do that the same with your mom, but you really the support and the security aspect of it, there are certain things that male presenting or masculine energy um from a certain certain individual we gravitate towards. And like Mosquitoes was saying, we we we need that that strength, we need that security, we need that protection, and not saying that uh a feminine presence can't do that, but it's just different. So, you know, you have masculine and feminine energy with both individuals. Both individuals have share in different quantities, share that that identity. You know, maternal figures, they can have a masculine presence depending on which particular attribute they have, the same as a male presenting individual. So you don't have someone that's just a hundred percent of one specific type of personality, if if I if you know what I'm saying. Like not moms are just all feminine and don't have any type of masculine energy. Not all, yeah, not all fathers are just all masculine and have no type of maternal energy. They all, it's an ebb and flow. It's a yin and yin between both. But I think we we gravitate more so towards fathers depending on what we need. So when we need security, our mom or our maternal figure might be giving us financial security if they're a single mom. But if if our our mother is constantly working and trying to provide for the family because they're a single mom, that child is still, there's still a part of them that is still yearning for an actual physical presence because the mother might be always working, doing behind the scenes work, doing that that sense of masculine energy to provide, if you want to go by gender roles in a way, but about the actual physical presence. So you need two individuals. It takes, it takes a community, it takes a family to really have children to understand what they need. We need the love, the care, the compassion, but we need the stability and the strength. And both female, female or or feminine energy, masculine or masculine energy individuals, we need that point of reference and we can't get it with just one person. We can get a good idea, but it's still not as authentic without having that particular male presenting figure there. And they can tell us how not to be treated, how to handle ourselves, how to stand up for ourselves, what we should look for in a partner. They can give us a point of reference on when I was younger, this is how I was, and this is what you should probably expect. And as we get older, this is how things change, so that we can understand a little bit more on how to navigate the world. And without without that, you can find these children grow up and feel lost, and then now having to navigate through life without any strategy. And that can be very disheartening because now we're just basically going through different roles of maybe this will work, maybe this will work, maybe this will work. And you're just kind of knocking off different things on a on a planner or or uh I would say like a like a to-do list and really know what actually works because again, you don't have that point of reference. You're you're in a sense a little bit lost or a lot of bit lost. And I think that's why it's so important to have that particular male presenting individual, because we can get a little we can traverse this world a little bit more with ease because you have two different individuals, the dichotomy of both that can give you a reference on both sides of the world. Um, and and that that part is missing if you don't have it.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

It really was because of how um, like I said, how I look at it is for individuals who may have been with or without their perception or their perspective on what you how you explain that may be different, but I like the way that you covered your basis in not specifying that it's up to the dad to have that masculine energy, that it can be an ebb and flow between either partner or either parental unit. Um, because there are you know women who you know are single moms that have to take up the mantle of both, and you know, there will be people who will defend the fact that they only had their mom or they only had their dad, and that individual was able to give them both. But going back to what you said, Sayane, the fact of the matter is whether you only had one, if you only had one, you really won't know what you could have had if you had both. Uh, it could have been a lot easier, it could have been a lot more difficult, it could have been um, it could have been in a way it could have been a way that it having both would have changed the or made better the way that your life is, uh, or worse. You really don't know how it would have carried out depending on the situation that you were in. Um, but I I'll I'll go ahead and pass over that same question to Miss Skittles. Uh do you how what is your perception of uh whether or not it's necessary uh for the father position, the father role to be in the in the household, in the black household, in the in the community of the black and movie.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

So um so I kind of agree with Sion A.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Um I feel like I feel like I feel like the right the right individual the right individual can take up the mantle of uh father figure, um, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in the household. In the community, yes, like as a whole, because I absolutely believe like um you know it it does take a village to raise a child type deal, but um in a household I don't necessarily believe that it's necessary. Um and mostly because of some of the reasons that Zaya and I mentioned the with the ebbs and flows of uh feminine and masculine energy that can that can show up in either either gender. Um so necessarily in a household, no. In a community, yes. I do think it is important for every individual to have some type of father figure in their life that can teach them things that um a woman cannot. Um and and I don't and while women can have masculine and feminine energy, there are there are things that women don't know or necessarily feel or you know think that uh uh a cis male would. So I think when it comes to when it comes to that, there are things that um that men can teach the community that women may never you know really have knowledge about or like access to necessarily. Um so I I think that's important for sure. Like I I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, like a man has to teach a boy how to be a man, because I don't believe in that at all. Um but there are definitely things that I mean I can I can say I've seen over the years. I I know that there's things like my mom is experiencing with raising my nephew right now, like that's that's just different because it's different when when um when you don't have like that quote unquote masculine figure. Um it's it's just something about I don't know. I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say without without kind of contradicting my my what I've just said, but also like what I believe. So so um I don't know. I I I think I think I'm gonna just leave it there. I I do believe that as a community, we do need we do need father-like figures in our community to teach to teach us as a community, not not just boys, but as a community, um how to how to navigate certain certain things in this world. Um I I do believe that.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yes, Salaman.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I want and I I 100% agree with Miss Kittles, and I think what she was trying to say is, and you could, and you can always tell me if I'm if I'm incorrect, but there are things that a father or male presenting figure can teach a growing boy that a mom might not have the perspective on because it could be more so on a biological sense, depending on the situation. It could be more so a hormone sense, you just don't know. And this is specifically if I'm going by like, yeah, so I can like it's difficult if a like my father couldn't tell me about periods, you know what I'm saying? But like, so I'm not gonna go to him about that. Um, and you know, I would love to use this, I would love to use an example, but it's kind of it's it's not for me to say I'm not gonna say, I'll just use an example. For example, if a father had a son, example, the father had a son and the and the son was very close to the father, and they had and and the fat and the son is in high school and he now has a girlfriend or partner, and you're thinking that, oh, they're gonna talk to the father about it, and they go to the mom. So the father would be like, wait, we do everything together. Why wouldn't you talk to me about that? Because when it comes to relationships or that that feminine energy, he doesn't want that that information from the father, he wants it from the mom to get a more maternal perspective. So I think it more so goes to a perspective of what you think that person might cater better to. And so depending on the situation, you're not gonna run to your dad about everything. I'm not gonna run to my dad about, hey, does this dress look cute? I'm gonna go to the mom, as in probably because of a perspective, that's the person who I see buying clothes for themselves, you know, not saying that dads don't do that, but the certain details, it's always in the details. If I notice something, if I can correlate a person with a specific activity or specific emotion, my brain is gonna be hardwired to go to that person first. So going back to Miss Skittles, you know, with your nephew, there are certain situations that might not have fit with what your nephew is going through and the mother. So he probably can't relate to the mom, but he could possibly relate to a masculine figure quicker, if that makes sense. So yeah, that doesn't that doesn't at all contradict what you're saying. That's that's in truth. That is that is in truth, whether it Is biological, physiological, hormone-based, there are we are going to go with who we relate to the most. And that's just kind of that's just nature, in my opinion. So I I completely agree with you. Going back to uh your thoughts about community versus home, I agree with you on that as well. I guess to add back to that, the reason why I said it's important for a father figure to be in the houses of convenience. And when we if we scrap, if we fall and we we scratch our leg, who who might we go go run to out of out of convenience? Because a community could be a town, a community could be a huge family, but that community might not be in the, I would say, the proximity of closeness as in the home, I would say. So I guess out of convenience, depending on a certain situation, I might not want to run to my aunt, who's still a part of my community, but she's not close in proximity. I want to run to the person that's closest to me. I might not run to my uncle, who's still in my my community of family. I want to run to my brother because he's close to me in proximity. So I guess when it comes to community versus home, I completely understand that. And you do need a masculine figure in the community, even if you don't have that presence in the home. But I think the reason why I said home first is because of convenience, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 23:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Interesting balance between the two. Um, no, definitely. Um, I think having those having sorry being able to have a masculine presenting individual to ask questions or to be able to give you some type of uh instruction or direction in the things that you're trying to do in life, and this is coming from my perspective, um personal perspective. Uh I had a variety of you know, male or masculine figures, specifically my dad, um, with the majority of my print life, um, as well as you know, pastors and uncles. Um now there were a lot more female or feminine um individuals, excuse me, presenting individuals around me. I had many aunts, my mother, my older sister, uh just a lot of um women around me, household-wise. So when it was time to gain that perspective, I agree with both Silomate and Miss Skittles. I did turn to the masculine or my the men in my life, my dad, my uncles, uh, when I had those specific type of questions. Um, one thing I want to add to that point though, is depending on your experience with that individual, or those individuals, or depending on your upbringing, and that could be based off heredity, that could be based off of culture. Um, there are certain things that you shh could the popular opinion is that you should, but based off of your personal experience, you will not. Um let's go back to the example that Psyine used about you know dating or you know uh uh getting a partner. There are certain things that you would want to ask either one of your parents, but based off of cultural differences, you can't turn to either one of them, so then you have to go to a different figure completely. Um so, you know, the the the general perspective, the communal perspective that, oh, you know, just talk to your dad, talk to your coach, talk to, you know, a male figure in your life, you're like, uh they won't understand this unique situation, not because they can't, but maybe it's mainstream media tells them that they shouldn't. Or maybe it's my own personal fears based off of heredity uh or things that they've said in the past. Um maybe, you know, it could be it goes against religion, the religion of the household, and that prevents me from wanting to communicate, obviously with my pastor, but definitely with my father figure, who may be a strong Christian man or Baptist man, uh, or otherwise. Um, so there are a variety of reasons, you know, kind of going back to the question and trying my best to answer it without answering it, um, why I would feel, although, yes, I feel like it's necessary to have a male figure in the community, it's also important for the said male figure to be open in his thinking in this day and age. Back in the day, that's that that wasn't the necessary um that it wasn't necessary, uh, or let me not say it wasn't necessary, it wasn't heard of for that male figure to be open in their understanding or open in their acceptance of things. Um, which is why if you saw many TV shows back in the 80s and the 90s, the father figure in a lot of different uh episodes or or series will come off as the rule-oriented hammer, uh uh closed-minded, you do what I say. Uh some of them will even do as I say, not as I do. And that's why the male figure, uh sorry, the the the youth in the in the show might run to a different father figure or run to a different male presenting individual to seek counsel, and then that counsel would have to circle back and tell the father about himself. Or or or a woman would have to tell the father about himself. Like you can't be beating on these kids, or you know, oh, he wants somebody to listen to, or she wanted to go to her father, but she couldn't. That's why she came to me. So there's a different, there's different scenarios in which that happens. And, you know, I think one of the main things that I'll say to the question is although, yes, I feel like it's important, I feel like it's it's a far more different job and it's a far more different world than it was when we were growing up in terms of what we would allow and accept as the youth. Because growing up, I think, and you all could agree with me or not, um, or or you know, uh tell me your perspective, my thought process was the leading male figure in your life is not necessarily always right, but that's the person you have to be in some way, shape, or form, um respectful. Uh uh many words, like this the same way that people, the the mainstream media would say you have to respect the police is how you respect your father. Like this person is the end-all be-all, this person gets you, and this I'm talking about when you're a child, 10 and under. Like this person, depending on how I mean, and granted, maybe it's different for girls because I've I've seen the different perspective, uh, at least for me and a lot of the men that I know, but the your father figure was the one who was always right, the one that you always have to turn to, the the provider, the protector, the uh uh the end all be all in terms of the things that are supposed to happen within the household when you're that age. And depending on how your relationship grows, as you get into your teens, you either stray away or you stray too. You you become your father or you become the exact opposite of your father, or you do your best to not be your father. Um, and then once you get into your adolescence, into your adulthood, you then excuse me, then you determine exactly who are you? Are you now your your dad's friend, or are you better than your dad could ever have been? Are you the exact opposite because your childhood was terrible, or are you have you grown and heightened the the things, the positive things that you've gotten to new heights, and now your children are even more uh well off than you ever were. Um so the experiences that come from what I've seen and what I've experienced is uh is uh is a lot different. It's like, yes, you need that father figure, but it depends on the father figure that you have. Um, because if all you saw were negative father figures, then you either do, like I said, one of two things. You repeat it or you stray away so far, you do the exact opposite. Because like I won't be like him, and I'll make sure that my kids don't end up in the same way. Um yeah, that that's my perspective. Uh, I guess let me ask, from a um I won't say that, I'll say from your perspectives, um, do you feel that it's different from a young girl's mindset than it is uh from a young boy's? Because like I said, I've had I had had two sisters, so I always felt like the princesses are always right, yet the young man who may not even be a prince in his household just has to figure it out whether I'm gonna do what he says or not be what he is.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

So when I in the beginning of my response, when I said the right individual has to step up. Um essentially everything that you said is what what I meant. When I say the right individual, I'm I'm I'm meaning the the person who's who's going to have the I don't want to say the least strict, but like the the worldly perspective, the worldly, you know, let me look at this individual who's coming to me about something and take the time to to understand where they're coming from before I just you know be like, nah, like what I say go, what I say go because I'm that, you know, I'm the daddy, nigga. Like so, um, so that's what I meant by the right individual. Um as far as um like do I think it's a different perspective? Absolutely, I think it's a different perspective um when it comes to um whether you I identify as as male or female or shit, non-binary, but um, I think the perspective is always gonna be different from those genders. Uh specifically because like you like you said, there's there's um there's some fathers out there who who present you know like that uh 90s character that you mentioned. And then and then you have to go find someone who's less who's less like that. Like, I mean, even now, um with me, there are there are certain things that I like I would not go to my my my mom about specifically because I know that how she is, I'll reach out to another maternal figure for certain situations. So I I think I absolutely agree that it definitely depends on the situation and how that that father figure has presented umself to you over the years where we pick and choose, you know, what we you know decide to come to them about because we know how they got or um and I think honestly, I think that is that's like a blessing and a curse. Um and I feel like I might go off on a tangent with this because I had this conversation with somebody before um just about general friendships. Like a lot of times we will we will go to the friend that we know is going to give us the answer we're looking for versus the answer we need. Um and I'm not and I'm not saying that just because you choose to go to the the father who's not as harsh, the father figure that's not as harsh, that they're not gonna give you solid, you know, advice. But we are we are looking for someone who's going to be more attentive to our feelings, versus you know, the your your harsh daddy that's gonna be like, nah, fool. Like I ain't trying to hear none of that. Like this is how you're gonna be. But there's a difference between giving you uh being attentive to somebody's feelings and then just being dismissive of somebody's feelings. So I think we have to be, even when we are choosing who we want to to speak to about certain situations, we have to be cognizant of why we are going to that person. Um are we going to that person because we know that they're just gonna validate our feelings uh regardless if they're right or wrong? Are we going to this person because they are a well-rounded, you know, looking individual who will assess the situation and give you solid advice whether you are right or wrong?

SPEAKER_01 36:13

I I no, um I mean you you break it backed off what I said. So yes, I I definitely agree um that it is case by case. It is based off of those individuals and and where you find yourself. Uh Say, I know you had a a point you were about to kind of jump in on.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

I had multiple. So that's why I had to reel back to reel myself back. So if you don't mind, just restate the question one more time just so I can just ground myself in answering this. So I don't go off on a tangent.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Um, I mean, what I was doing was I was I was really stating that with the different figures, a young woman's experience, young girl's experience is uh is obviously going to be different than a young boy's. And for mine, you know, depending on what I'm dealing with, and depending on the maturity or the level at which the father figure or or the masculine processing figure has gotten to, they may or may not be the person that I can confide in, or maybe not confide is way too far, talk to or or ask for an opinion of. Um is that experience different? Is it is it separate? Um, is it seen differently uh coming from person to person between the genders, as Miss Skittle specifically said?

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm gonna put in a culture in there as well, because I can only go by my experience. Um I have noticed that the expectations for female femme presenting or women are vastly different compared to male presenting individuals. And with that being said, there are never conversations you're ever really gonna have depending on the the father figure individual that you have in your household or in your life. Whoever you you whoever is your biological father, whoever is your father figure with the cultural aspect on it, and you are a woman or a female presenting individual, there are certain conversations you're not gonna have, which puts a huge damper on personal growth and negation. And if you can't go to the individual that is the blueprint on who your future partner is going to be, there's a huge disconnect already. Because all you're getting is the femme or maternal perspective and not the male perspective. And to be a well-rounded individual, you have to know both sides. No, no female individual or or female or or femme or or you know woman, and we're not going to know everything, just like how no man is going to know everything about us. So we have to know, we have to collaborate ideas. Like there are certain things that we didn't know that boys or or male presented individuals go through that that is and vice versa, because we we don't really have those open conversations years ago. Now, because the world has become more global, more integrated. So culture, we're we're getting exposed to different cultures around the world, those conversations about religion and culture and just growing up, it's now become more universal now. So these are not these are not experiences that we're we're completely ignorant to anymore compared to how it was maybe 20 years ago without the social media, without being able to see, like, oh wow, okay, so people are going through this too. Now you have a mutual camaraderie of sorts when it comes to certain cultural backgrounds. But with that being said, the pressure on being a woman and the expectations, there's certain conversations that we as women we need to have with our fathers that we can get. And then it's like, what do we do? Because that's the person's closest to you. That's your blood, that's someone that you've brought that you were grown up with, and you want to run to them because you there's a there's a feeling of trust. And so you want to go to the person that in your mind you trust. And when you can't go to the person that you trust, that that that kind of leaves your heart broken a little bit, not betrayal, but just kind of like you're always found wanting. And so now it's like it's like if you want to go to your best friend about something you can't. So now you have to go to your other best friend, but you really want to go to that person. That's the that's the perspective you want, that's the perspective you crave. And when you can't have that, there are issues. There are issues that are growing, there are issues that are gonna that are gonna start festering down the road. And so just seeing how I don't like to be get too personal, just seeing the interaction of my father with me, my father with my brother, even though that's technically not his biological son, that hit the that's that's his stepson. So the the conversations is different, vastly different. They can talk about girls or relationships, but when I had a conversation with him about, I do think we had a conversation. I don't think I've ever had a conversation with my father about boys, ever. Not to date. Maybe when I was like, hey, I'm like a 30, 30, 30 something-year-old woman, like, hey, this is my boyfriend. But even that was weird to have because and it shouldn't be because this is this is someone who I want to come to. I'm trying, you, you're the blueprint. What am I supposed to expect out of a man?

SPEAKER_05 42:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

And if I don't know, now I'm I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to figure out on my own. I can't necessarily go with the perspective of my mother because she had her own situations, her own biases. So I really want to go to that male figure. So I hope I'm not going off on a tangent now, feel like I am, but there I'll I'll just say there is a huge difference due to what a man or what a father thinks a daughter should do. And culturally, the daughter should be the one that is the caregiver. They should their their perspective, their thoughts should not be on relationships or not be on how I should be taken care of, or what does it mean for someone to take care of me? What does it mean to feel love? That's not the perspective. The perspective is going to school, um, being a maternal figure in this household. And again, that can be what that can start when you're in middle school. So these there's expectations that are put on girls, women, female presenting individuals at a young age. And that's a huge, huge dichotomy to face, where the expectation is different. Have fun, we you know, just try things out, and that freedom is not the same. So, with that being said, we're not getting an accurate representation on life or like how to navigate properly, like how to grow, how to be a child. And going back to what Ms. Skittles was saying about the right individual, you have to have the right individual, and not saying I'm just talking about my specific experience. If you don't have the right male presenting paternal figure in your life, then your your reality on things is going to start to be warped. You're gonna have biases about certain people, you're going to have malice or hatred about certain things, and it's it's not gonna be accurate. Because of a negative impact in your life or a negative negative perspective perspective that has been that has been forced upon you when you're seeing different things. So um, but yes, going back to what you're saying, there I do know for a fact culturally that there's a huge difference when it comes to the expectations when it comes to like a father and a daughter versus a father and a son.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

No, definitely. Um, I I find it interesting um because I agreed, I was following you and I was agreeing with you. And then I realized that as time, and this is me of course coming from a personal place as well, um, as time went on and I grew older, and even when I was younger, I noticed the exact, not I won't say the exact opposite, but I noticed slight oppositions to what you were saying, where instead of the boys getting the more hey, go have, you know, live life, experience things, things like that, the girls were getting that. And one of the things, the reason why I know that was different for at least my household is when I was younger, it was my dad practically said it. He was like, he gets along with and he's worked with, and he's he understands the worth of how women operate. And he he had nothing but brothers and one sister, a lot of brothers and one sister, and but he always was able to work with or um communicate really well with women. I'm talking about my father, of course. So, because of that, and and this is again my perspective. My sister might tell you, you know, the exact opposite, but from my perspective, he was he gave my sisters the ability to spread their wings, and not saying I didn't get the like I wasn't a caged beast or anything like that, but there was a lot more instruction on their end, there was a lot more protection on their end, there was a lot more um, this is how this can be if you do it like this. And for me, I felt like a lot of what I had to go through was uh what's the word? Uh trial by fire. A lot of the stuff I had to do, I had to figure it out on my own. Um, there was instruction, but I'd have to ask for it. And if I did not remember or think to ask for it, then I was practically lost. Um and I think that tends to be a that tends to be something that I've seen in a lot of kind of male relationships, father to son, uncle to nephew, what have you, where there like a some of them have a well, I figured this out, you should figure this out too. So there also are individuals who feel as though with with I was able to get through these hardships. I learned by trial by fire, you should be able to do the same thing. So instead of telling them, hey, I went through all of this, this is what you should avoid, they allow the person to go through the hardships, believing that that's how you create a really strong, and not even independent, but strong uh community leader and father figure and so on and so forth, not understanding and realizing that you have your own like therapy-ridden situations that you need to sort through, and that you have your own traumas that you are now causing your your your son or your nephew, your grandson, whoever, uh to go through for your child. It could be the same thing for the woman, for a young woman, um, going through certain things because they believe the the the maternal paternal fraternal individual believes that, oh, I don't have to teach you anything, you'll be able to go through this proper proper and you'll figure it out on your own, Miss Gittles.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

So what you're describing is uh like generational trauma. There it is. Um yes, um, and I and I feel like um us as millennials we we are the generations that began to break that shit down. Um I I don't know how many people I have spoken to who always talk about how how their parents have done certain things and it always comes down to oh I had to I had I had to do it like that so this is that that's how you should do it too, and that's how you're gonna become blase blah. But in actuality, you you had to do it like that because your mama passed some some fucked up shit down to you, and now you passing that fucked up shit down to me. Um but it like you said, it doesn't it does not have to be like that. Um and I've seen I've seen this, I've seen this in the household, I've seen this in the workplace, like the way it it happened with the the older generations is is it's wild to me that you would think because you had to go through something, that is how you became the quote unquote strong person that you are today, but in actuality, you didn't have to go through that. Like the your whoever was teaching you something could have taught you a better way, and because you suffer, now you want me to suffer, to learn something from that or whatever, but I mean everybody's everybody's reaction to trauma is different, so you can't say, oh, because I suffered through this, such and such, and I came out stronger. I mean, you don't know that that's gonna happen for me. Um you don't know that I'm gonna come out strong. You don't know, you know, how I'm going to react to whatever it is that you think I need to go through to, you know, get to where you are. Um and we're not, I mean, you could just like teaching someone is not like giving them the easy way out. You're just you're still teaching them. They still have to, you know, um perfect, perfect what you've taught them, listen to what you taught them, practice what you taught them. So it's uh it's definitely a generational trauma thing. I definitely think uh generations before us um feel like it's almost like a need to like prove themselves worthy. But you know, we're we're not we're not judging you. We just want to know how you got there. Like it's not there's no judgment on um you know what you had to do to get there. It's how can how can I get to where you are? It's it's just a learning thing for us, not necessarily a judgment thing. And I feel like a lot of older generations are working from a place of judgment and they can be having it so easy. Um because we asked to learn versus having to go through something to get there.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

I agree 100%. It's it's kind of like trauma bonding and it's becoming a competition. Um I have gone through so much. Look what I've gone through. And we're like, that's horrible. Yeah, it's horrible. So you need to go through the same thing so that you can understand what I went through. And that's a very fucked up perspective because when you have children, you never want them to ever experience what you went through and you want to create a better life. That's how it should be. When it comes to, I would say humanity, when it comes to survival, if we want to go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we can, but when it comes to us as a as a species, we we always want to be able to evolve, we always want to be able to try to do better for the betterment of the entire species, of the entire community. And so if we kept everything selfish and be like, well, I'm doing it this way. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna show any other easier way to go about it. Y'all just gonna have to figure it out. That doesn't teach, that doesn't show anything but just passed on trauma, passed on hurt, and and then you have multiple generations that never learn anything. All it is is a competition of look what I've done, look what I've had to go through. Now you figure it out. But you're still in pain, you're still depressed, you still have PTSD, you still have anxiety, you're not happy, you're miserable. So you want to pass on misery, and then that's starting to be embedded into DNA. You're starting to have your your line, your your your generation going through depression, anxiety, not knowing where it's coming from. So it's so interesting. Gonna go on intention, but it's so interesting how with multiple sclerosis, it is it it affects women the most. And it's interesting how a lot of neurological issues or diseases, a lot of it gets passed on, possibly due to trauma. Trauma, generational hurt, pain. You know, I've look what I've gone through. You need to go through it. And now it's starting to actually affect people on a physiological, mental, biological state now. And it's not conducive to humanity, it's not conducive to the community or the individual. So all it's gonna do, it's gonna dwindle the morale. It's not, it's there's nothing, there's nothing positive about that type of learning, if that's what you want to call it. And so going back to fathers, you know, fathers who and and the older generation, they had to go with what they had to go through because they didn't have a choice. They didn't have the freedom or the resources or the privilege that our generation currently has. But that's not saying that we're not going through a whole bunch of shit either. So each generation we go through our own strife. What we're able to do now, the previous generation couldn't do. We have more resources. But with that being said, we have a whole entire battle that we have to deal with.

SPEAKER_05 55:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

And so, and that's something that the previous generation probably could never survive from. So this competition of my generation went through so much worse than your generation. Yes, we didn't have to deal with lynchings down the street. Like how our gener, our our previous generation, the silent generation, even the baby boomers, they had to live through that traumatic shit. You know what I'm saying? Each generation has to do, we're dealing with police brutality still to this day. We're dealing with black kids still going missing, black women still getting fucking shot and killed by police, black men being buried in the back of fucking jail cells that nobody knows about to date. So not should have just started to be more quieter because they now figured out how to get a war around social media. But it's not like this stuff has gone away. It's still happening. This horrible stuff is still happening to our generation and the generation after us as well. But we need to figure out as a community how to be better, learn from the older generation, have the have the older generation teach us, these are the tools that I had to figure out. I want you to take these tools and add to it to be better. And that is what we need from our elders. That's what we need from our mothers, our maternal units, and we definitely need that from our fathers, our paternal units as well. Just the competition is just very strange. And that is why our generation, like Miss Skittle said, we are trying to break the curse because we're now seeing that with the opportunities we have, we can now have the access to really sit down and think something has to change. We can't keep this up for the betterment of the community, the betterment of society, the betterment of humanity. There has to be a change because if we continue this generational trauma, we're all not gonna be here. We're all not gonna be here. So we that that is why we we started to really sit back and look like, okay, we have to do, we have to do things different. And we're thinking there has to be we have to start it at a micro, uh, a micro uh um, I would say, scale. We have to start it with ourselves. We have to start it with the home, and then we start working outward. How we were how we were treated, we didn't like that. And so we're not if we're going by the more of treat others how you want to be treated, I don't want to treat the next generation the way how I was treated, because this is how this is the damage that has been caused. And I don't want to pass that damage on so that somebody can feel my hurt that didn't even ask to be here. So so um we have definitely become more introspective about our ways about life, and I think that's a beautiful thing. Um, millennials get a lot of shit, but we we we have I'm very proud of our generation. I'm proud of the generation priorities to us as well because we wouldn't be here without them. Without all that they had to go through, I'm very appreciative of all the hard work and all of the sacrifices they had to put for us to be alive. So, but with that being said, let's continue to keep doing better and we can't do better if we cannot look into the the household first because that's where all of our teachings start. Not school, it's the how it's the home. It's the home, it's the community. You go to school, you only take what 15-20% of that learnings, you actually apply it in real life applications, and with that, you have your community to help give you a point of reference. Again, it's always that that navigation to all right, I can take this situation, and I can take your experience, and now I can merge it together to get a better outcome. And that's all it is, it's just the the betterment of society. That is the whole goal about everything. That's the whole goal of life. It's not about the the selfishness or the self, it's about the community. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here. So, wrapping all of this, going back to the fathers and just the masculine presence. It's so important to have a positive figure, to be able to see the negatives that they had to go through and even how they went about it, whether they're like, I wish I went about it a different way. And you can hear that perspective, like, okay, well, they went about this way and it didn't turn out so well for them. I'm not gonna do it that way because then it'll turn out not so well for me. So I'm going to take that teaching and then add it to what I can do for myself so that we can have a better outcome. That is what teaching is, that is what learning is. That is that is passing on the necessary skill sets to the next generation, and a positive figure does that, and nobody's perfect, but that is what we need. And I think within the black community, there are so many wonderful black male individuals, but because of past trauma, and because they did not have the resources or the emotional, the emotional privilege to share how they feel, or even to know how to even cultivate feelings. We are in a a state of confusion, of lost, and just just I don't know, adolescence. You have grown men or grown male figures who are still healing from that lost child. And then you're having these grown lost children have children who have never been able to really access what it means for self-growth. So you have a plethora, you have multiple generations of hurt children, and that's all it is. You can be an 80-year-old hurt child and and just never been able to grow. So all you're doing is reproducing and still not teaching those, those important life goals of what it means to have emotional maturity, what it means to show, have emotional intelligence. And I think that is what we're dealing with now in the black community. It's not that black men are horrible, it's not that black men um, you know, they're they're they ain't shit or they're horrible, horrible father. It's that they are children, a lot of them who are not doing the best, they're just hurt emotional children that have grown up, have gotten older, and never are given the tools to actually access that maturity to be able to apply it to their life and pass it on to the next generation. I'm done, my long spiel.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

Could not say that better myself. Um honestly, what that does is it makes me want to ask more questions. Uh because we don't have time for it. But we will continue this thy this uh this uh conversation, I think, in a series, because what you've done is kind of broken down that all of us may all of us need some type of uh uh male presenting figure to help us do through things. But as Ms. Skittle said earlier, it has to be the right figure. And as you just mentioned, all of the trauma dumping and all of the trauma competition that seems to be happening um prevents us from being able to pass on the appropriate, or rather, not even the right, just the not even the tools, just pass on the things that theoretically need to be passed on, whatever those may be. Um, whether it's life lessons, whether it's uh love, whether it's instruction, whatever it is, being able to pass it on and letting it be received, because there are times where I'm sure each of us has gotten a lesson from someone, and it might have been the right lesson, but because it was delivered by the wrong person, we either rejected it, ignored it, or did the exact opposite, which caused us to go through a completely unnecessary situation. Um, so agreeing with the both of you about it being the right person and that you know we all need that particular thing, but then that poses the next question is depending on the situation, depending on what the question is, depending on the the console that we're seeking, will any of these individuals, these these male figures, be able to help us? And like I said, I want to dive into it uh because I know Miss Skittles will probably say yes to the question, perhaps. Um, Simon and Cosmo, we've talked about this before, he may say no. Um I I'd be right down the middle because I'm not sure. So I'm gonna say the question, but you can't answer it because that's the type of person that I am, so you just have to think about it. Um so the question is are and I specifically say are black fathers necessary for a young blurred journey? Are black fathers necessary for a young blurred's journey? That's our question for the next time. So I'm gonna wrap up the episode and I'm going to give both of our panelists the opportunity to explain how they can be reached, how they can be spoken to. I want to thank them, of course, for being on the episode today. But let's go ahead and start with Sione Cosplay. How could it be reached? How could you be found? Well, maybe not found, but how can they talk to you, your fans, your your uh do we have a name for Sayonnaise followers? Hmm. No, no, no, oh, I'm gonna stop. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

No, no, no, no names, no, no, no Swifties or anything. No, no, no, none of that. Um uh just my my loves. Uh so uh you guys can reach me at on IG Sione underscore cosplay on Facebook, Sayone Cosplay. I haven't been on Facebook in a while, so probably most likely IG, and then you can always hit me up on my email, Sioneperiod Cosplays at Gmo.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Ms. Skittles.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:40

Ms.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

Skittles, M Z Z Skittles, T-R underscore Cosplay on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, and my Twitter is M-I-Z Skittles2K02.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

Of course, I can be found on Instagram, Succi No Shogun, Suchi T S U C H I underscore No underscore Shogun. Um, and then of course, uh, or on any of the platforms is Emiralstarcade, and then we can be found at the Blurred Spectrum on Instagram um and Facebook and Twitter, and then our mailbag, theblurred spectrum at emeraldstarcade.com. Uh we will be attending, uh, some of us will be attending a event out in Westchester, Pennsylvania in May. We'll talk more about it at our next episode. But if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us. But as I always say, to wrap up these episodes, Salmada.