SPEAKER_08 0:00

Welcome back, everyone. On our last episode, we were discussing heroes. The heroes who give us pause. The ones who leave us in shock and awe. But not because of how great they are. Because we had so many issues and grievances about all these heroes, we had to turn it into a two-part episode. Thank you for listening to the Blurred Spectrum podcast and tuning into the second part of this episode. But um oh man, I lost a train of thought. That was talking about Link.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

The reason why I put that up there is because the Link is a thing of that's not his quote unquote ineffectiveness isn't necessarily his fault. Because he did his task.

SPEAKER_08 0:45

What was the task?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

His task was to stop whatever the greater evil is. He stops the greater evil, they live in peace for about I think what is it, five five hundred to a thousand years in the storyline?

SPEAKER_05 0:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

And then he dies, some other people live, the evil comes back after a thousand years, a new link is born, he does it again. Now that's not all his fault, that's fate. That's not that's but that's not something he can control. That's not an ineffectiveness brought to by him.

SPEAKER_08 1:16

No, I know it's it's a it's a it's a curse inflicted by the uh by the uh the the Lord of demise. He specifically linked their souls together, where he linked it.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

That was great.

SPEAKER_10 1:35

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Uh the best plans are the one that sushi doesn't know that he says, but I point them out.

SPEAKER_08 1:44

Anyway, conjoin their souls together. You already said it. Okay, I'm gonna go specifically for them to be able to be reincarnated into the next generation, however long that takes, where it's on Earth, where it's in the sky, where they're I hope they don't go to space. That's gonna be really weird.

SPEAKER_10 2:03

But I mean, there's already a moon up there.

SPEAKER_08 2:04

Isn't it Gundam?

SPEAKER_07 2:07

Isn't there Gundam? Isn't that the same thing?

SPEAKER_08 2:09

No, but yeah, the reason why I say it's his ineffectiveness is because most based off of what we were saying about Batman, about Superman, about other heroes that allow stuff to continue going on. Why is it that between Zelda and Link all they can do is just seal him? Why isn't there a definitive way to defeat him? You could separate him from the Lord of demise and then just seal the Lord of demise. Why not do that?

SPEAKER_10 2:40

Do they not have magic that's powerful? I don't I don't absolutely know about Legend Zelda, so I'm like, this is a question for me. Like you would have to, I'm I'm assuming for that to happen, you would have to have an extremely high um level of magic to be able to do that. And between the both of them, that doesn't sound like it's something that they have. And that's what's that that's what keeps happening.

SPEAKER_08 2:58

In several generations, they have had sages that were all strong enough to seal um him in the um uh sacred sacred realm. But the problem was they sealed him with Ganodorf. So it was Gam Ganodorf's evil will, as well as times Lord of demise's magical ability that forced their way back out and cracked the seal. So by keeping them together, you're keeping an angry ass nigga with somebody who's extremely powerful who don't want to stay in the same room.

SPEAKER_10 3:28

From what I do know, Ganondorf was also like raised to like be, he was raised and taught magic as well. So Ganondorf, if you're Ganodorf's just upbringing alongside the power of the Lord of the Mise, like then combined, they sound like they would be able to resist that sort of situation for the most. I don't know. I'm just I'm speculating.

SPEAKER_08 3:47

Ganendorf was raised by like like desert Amazon uh uh Amazons by the Gerudo. So like he was the only man born out of a hundred years. So like literally they taught him all of their wares, both magic, fighting, swordsmanship, all that stuff. So like his premise was well, we shouldn't. Why the well, literally, his concept is funny enough, it's similar to Zod's. Why the hell is our entire uh nationality living out in the desert when all these niggas is in the castles and shit? Nah, we gotta change that. And that's in oracle, at least in Oracle of Time, he's kind of like, yeah, let's fix this shit. Then the Lord of the Mise came in and then you know shit changed. But I'm not going to the story Legends of Zelda.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I did, I kind of did.

SPEAKER_08 4:29

I'm sorry. Uh but enough about me. Uh let's go ahead to uh the doctor. You were actually saying that uh uh some of my points kind of tied in with yours. So what were you gonna say? Who yours is?

SPEAKER_11 4:42

Yes, so the idea of a recurring a rhetoric a recurring antagonist and what that means if you can't make long-lasting change. So for my first hero, I went with Mario. You know, because Mario is interesting for a lot of reasons, but first I'm Jessica's effectiveness. Whack ass plumber. Yeah, like he so he's supposed to rescue Peach, he's supposed to defeat Bowser and possibly his kids, typically in the game, you know, and save the land that way. What a child abuse? Uh uh. Yeah, so child abuse is a factor here, of course. But like, no. I'm gonna get to that with a layer. And at least with Link, there's a whole like excuse of the reincarnation of you know, Link Zelda, you know, and the souls being linked. But Bowser is not a moral. Bowser doesn't reincarnate. Like, Bowser is just a really strong leader with obscene wealth and like hundreds of assholes across the Muslim kingdom. We see in a lot of Goombas, widgets of Koopas, you know, they're sentient, they have lives, they're, you know, they are intellectually on par with human beings. And Mario kills them one by one, even if they are walking around their day, not he will just crush them in an instant. Now, to tie into that, Wilbert will tell you that the blocks in the Mushroom King kingdom who are cursed and turned into blocks. So every time he's crushing a block to get a coin, he's killing an innocent member of the Mushroom King. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05 6:38

This is Mario?

SPEAKER_10 6:45

You just took you just and that's the sheet of a lot of people right now.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

Oh my god, that's my my me and my sister's nicknames.

SPEAKER_11 7:01

So yeah. Like a whole lot to the point where I'm not sure you can really call him the hero. Like he's definitely the protagonist, but he's not really heroic at the end of the day. Especially since we don't, you know, other than like, you know, the curses of the people in the Mushroom Kingdom, we don't see a lot of complaints about what Bowser is doing as far as a leader.

SPEAKER_08 7:25

Yeah. The only complaint is he kidnapped people. Yeah, he keeps kidnapping people.

SPEAKER_11 7:30

Which, you know, that's that's a whole other topic of how consensual that is. Right, okay. No but no. But yeah, like Bowser is, you know, Mount Mario, like, he's not even really a hero at the end of the day. Even though I do like him as a character in a lot of ways, like, yeah, a lot of things he does is pretty fucked up and so he bad that when you really dive into it. So the other character I had. Oh, no, there's one more, and she's someone who I don't think she's really ineffective as a character in terms of what she does, but I think there was a lot of missed potential with her in a lot of ways when it came to like there's so much more she could have done, but you know, that's I don't think she was necessarily handled well, at least in her original game. And this is Eris from Final Fantasy VII. Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_08 8:37

So what you got? Let me hear it.

SPEAKER_11 8:45

I really do, but but I feel like, well, first off, I put her as the hero because even though Cloud is definitely the protagonist of that game, I think she's the one other character who has a lot of those corolla tropes, you know, it kind of fits the role of a hero in a lot of ways, where, you know, oh, she's of this special bloodline, and only she can save the world because you know she's an ancient and she has to be born to use the holy material to stop media. And in the end, she does save the world, but in a different way, using the live stream. So I feel like you know, she embodies some of those heroic qualities. The issue I have, and it it's kind of tied to a narrative issue. So spoiler, the game's 20 years old, so hopefully this isn't too much of a spoiler. When she dies in disc one, which is at the end of disc one, which is about halfway through the game. So what that means is she gets all of her development pretty much in disc one. So in disc two, all the other characters were starting to really like are continuing to grow and we're learning more about. But of course, like we get like a little bit more backstory on what you know her being an ancient means as far as media and like the holy material, but which she's really pretty much stagnant because you know, after disc one, that most of her character growth pretty much stopped. And it creates for me a lot of lost opportunities to be really interesting in a lot of ways. Because I think of a lot of things that happen in disc two, like Cloud coming to terms with him, you know, I mean spoiler, but him basically copying Zach's identity. Like, could you imagine if him, him and Aerith had that conversation of Zach being Aerith's, you know, as boyfriend or former boyfriend? Like, could you imagine them kind of having that conversation and having like dialogue or like interesting like depth that could create? You know, all these things where a lot of the characters got so much more interesting and Aerith didn't. And I get that Kurt Death is, of course, a meaningful plot point and it drives a lot of things going forward, but it does create this weird place where like for me, she just felt really stagnant after disc one. And I think there are other examples of like anime where a character died, but we learned a lot more about them later that made them really interesting and gave them a lot more depth. I don't think that happened there. You know, I feel like you know, what she did what really who she was at disc at the end disc one is just who she was, you know, for the rest of the game. And honestly, like I think I think interestingly, it's the remake handled her better in some ways because it was a standalone, you know, game that only went to like the first half of disc one. So she feels like a complete character in that game, you know, because you get to see like her growth and they flesh out some of her things or front, some of her events that were kind of in the background in the original. But yeah, like I think Eric had a lot of missed possibilities for me, even though I do like her a lot for a lot of reasons. Like, I I was let down a little bit.

SPEAKER_08 11:56

Speaking of not touching that. All right. So I would like to pass it. Uh, did you have another one? Uh the doctor?

SPEAKER_11 12:08

Oh no, just those two.

SPEAKER_08 12:10

Okay. So I'd like to pass it to uh Joe Tsg.

SPEAKER_07 12:15

Yo. Um so I'm gonna start with now. We all have this like love-hate relationship with Goku.

SPEAKER_08 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 12:24

But we don't really talk about Chi Chi as much.

SPEAKER_08 12:26

Oh no. Oh, Lord.

SPEAKER_07 12:30

Then that's the problem. Why hasn't she left yet? Oh wait a minute. She's she could she deserve so much more, and yet she weighs over Goku like a slave, making sure he is fed, making sure that the house is taken care of, it's clean, the kids are educated, even though she's kind of the reason why Gohan isn't never mind. Uh so there's that's like the main issue that I have with Chi Chi's. Like, I feel like after she became a mom, like her actual character growth just dwindled. Like it was non-existent. Like she's just there to be an angry housewife, pretty much. But like half the reason why she's angry is a lot of times it's because Goku is leaving, or no, Goku can't give a drive. She has the right to, but at the same time, if the world is destroyed, what is her whole purpose? Hmm.

SPEAKER_08 13:25

Her daddy was the ox king.

SPEAKER_07 13:28

Yeah, her d her ox father was the ox king who I don't know what the hell happened to him after a Dragon Ball Z.

SPEAKER_10 13:34

And Chi Chi had hands. I don't know when they, you know. She had hands. Let her have hands.

SPEAKER_07 13:39

She got pregnant.

SPEAKER_09 13:42

No, she got herself pregnant. I have no faith in the idea that Goku got her pregnant. She said, nigga, lay down. So I want it to happen.

SPEAKER_07 13:54

Uh the second person is uh Kirito from Sword Art. I Oh, you didn't. What is the purpose of him? What does he do well except play video games? I don't like he's he's just boring, dull as a character. He doesn't really add anything to the show. With him being the main character, I feel like he should. Uh Asana is a way better character, and I would have rather the show actually deal with her more. Except her getting caught by narrators.

SPEAKER_09 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 14:31

Pretty much, yeah. That's that that was all I was going to do. So in the most, and I I don't want to spoil anything, but in the most recent season where it's like five years old, we not spoiling that based off of the current season, uh, where Kirito is a non-factor, and all the other characters that have been built around him since the first season are now getting their own individual times to shine. Isn't that like kind of what you were asking for, where Kirito is in the background and now everybody else has the ability to do so?

SPEAKER_07 15:01

Yes, but now the story is so convoluted that to be honest, I don't even care anymore. I still enjoy the action sequences, but that's that's as far as I go with the newest season two.

SPEAKER_10 15:14

I think that was my my favorite statement was what else does Kirito do aside from be good at video games like your I mean he like beat that nigga's ass at one time in the street, but that was about it.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Well who ate what?

SPEAKER_10 15:28

Who ate in season two when um he was trying to go save old Asana because she was uh you know being molested um and in the real world, and he called old dude in the streets like for real for real and he fought him and actually won.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Yeah, but that dude was like a business man, and he was like, he can fight, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 15:47

He can he can fight.

SPEAKER_08 15:48

Like that dude is just a bad situation, like I was gonna say, that's I mean as much as I want to defend the show, I can't because in the next season, one of the members of Laughing Coffin, who actually knows how to fight in the real world, came up on him with a shank and stabbed Kirito. So it's like, okay, that's nice. That was so stupid.

SPEAKER_10 16:06

Yeah, it was cool. So basically, what you're what what Joe says is like Kirito has glorified has put a gamer in a place to be glorified simply for being a gamer, but otherwise that's really all they have going for them.

SPEAKER_08 16:16

Uh, he has good brain power, that's all I got.

SPEAKER_07 16:19

Does he though? Oh he has to for his character to do something. And people keep on dying. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. People haven't officially died since the first season. Let me rephrase that. He's in a coma. Thank you. That's not true.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

In uh gun gale, they were dying too.

SPEAKER_08 16:45

No, they weren't dying per se. He said, I will kill myself if I lose.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

No, they they were dying. They were having learning. Because little the guy was actually finding out that way.

SPEAKER_08 16:58

But that's a serial killer. He was killing them on purpose. That's different. People are still dying. But gun game wasn't even his fault.

SPEAKER_07 17:07

He just started playing the game. It's not true.

SPEAKER_10 17:12

People are dying.

SPEAKER_08 17:13

Gungail wasn't even about Keto Joe. He just showed up. Who was in the internet? Oh god, the internet joke. Who does he actually work? First of all, he's a programmer. He's he he programs, he's a programmer. Yes. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 17:32

I don't think that's not helping the case. That makes him worse. Why does it make it worse? Because he shouldn't know better.

SPEAKER_08 17:42

He was a programmer, I believe, at Wrath, where they were specifically uh uh well they only hired him because he survived in the first season.

SPEAKER_07 17:50

Sure. That doesn't make him he lived. Okay. But what are your other qualifications for you becoming a programmer?

SPEAKER_08 17:56

He has programming skills.

SPEAKER_07 17:58

He went to school for it. When did he he was playing video games? When did he have time to do homework?

SPEAKER_08 18:02

After they came out of uh SAO, they all went to school. It was accelerated school where he learned trades and then he got a job at the back.

SPEAKER_07 18:10

He went to ITT tech. Shut up.

SPEAKER_08 18:12

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 18:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

I'm sorry for anybody who's actually gone to IT tech because we did not mean that it was because of the commercials.

SPEAKER_07 18:27

I mean, obviously, for what this is not what this episode is about.

SPEAKER_08 18:45

You know, you spitting some some acid but say your nay is option for you.

SPEAKER_07 18:59

I couldn't talk to school for YouTube and call it a day, but all right. YouTubers make money, homie. They do. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_08 19:10

Alright. So you made your point about Kirito. Yeah, last person.

SPEAKER_07 19:13

Uh so I'm a huge fan. Love Inyyasha. Oh no. Not talking about Inyasha. Oh, thank god.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Oh, I was like, Is it Kagome?

SPEAKER_07 19:21

It's Kagome.

SPEAKER_05 19:23

Of course it is.

SPEAKER_07 19:26

Because uh amongst her just being a huge brat impatient, and a lot of the things that they get on um Koral for, which I still don't understand, but that's another thing. Um the way she abuses Any Yasha, specifically like the first actually the entire anime, I just don't understand why. Uh we I feel like we we understand why I don't like Kagame. But a lot of people like her, and I don't I don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I don't like her. She has to. So I agree.

SPEAKER_07 20:01

Uh I don't, yeah, that's that's that's she was my last person.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

I know people like her, but are they calling her a hero?

SPEAKER_07 20:08

They're calling her a hero.

SPEAKER_08 20:10

Well, they call their entire they call their entire squad hero and because she's a part of the squad by association.

SPEAKER_10 20:25

You doing doing that miss you're doing that Mrs. Incredible Alaska girl, Mr.

SPEAKER_07 20:30

Fantastic Here I was gonna throw Sakura in this too. Oh no, no, no. See, we talked about this.

SPEAKER_05 20:39

No, please, go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 20:44

No, you can't. It doesn't no, I'll I'll disprove it. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_09 20:47

I mean, okay, we got a key, I want to throw Naruto into it, but uh, we're not doing that.

SPEAKER_08 20:52

That's not true.

SPEAKER_05 20:54

All three of them.

SPEAKER_07 20:56

You can have an entire episode about Naruto and why majority of the characters were not shit.

SPEAKER_08 21:02

Okay, let's do that.

SPEAKER_07 21:02

But we ain't gonna do it right now. Except Lee.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Except Lee. This is amazing. You have all of it. What is Lee doing right now?

SPEAKER_10 21:16

Exactly. Exactly. You're literally like one of ten people who watch the Border Tool anime. And that's why I know. I'm not afraid of that. Actually, no, the people I'm sorry, all 20 of the people who actually read the Border Tool manga would probably know more than you.

SPEAKER_08 21:28

So I mean, they probably would, but I know enough to know the Lee isn't doing anything.

SPEAKER_07 21:33

And that's the greatest thing about it. He ain't doing shit.

SPEAKER_08 21:37

Sakura is she took the place of Tsunati as the lead of the uh uh healthcare. What kind of leader?

SPEAKER_07 21:43

She's a doctor, she's a glorified doctor, she's the lead of health care. They they don't even go to um the lead of health care.

SPEAKER_10 21:50

Okay, well, okay, don't call her glorified doctor like everybody else could just do the same shit.

SPEAKER_05 21:57

She's something.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

What? Knocked out.

SPEAKER_08 22:09

Knocked out.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Yes, that's when she'd be on the ground, dog.

SPEAKER_08 22:13

Oh my god. You sound like a dragon law these days.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

They be fighting. She'd be like, ooh, let me get in there, boom.

SPEAKER_08 22:25

Not at the fourth grade ninja war. Soccer's on in the fourth grade ninja war.

SPEAKER_07 22:31

Soccer is about as useful as Sasuke's sword.

SPEAKER_10 22:35

I mean, he did use that shit a lot. I'm not gonna get the good.

SPEAKER_07 22:46

That's not different. That's not her best.

SPEAKER_08 22:54

That's not cool.

SPEAKER_10 23:02

At least the bitch learned how to throw some kind of hands and she got she got a really good skill that nobody else has. But I would not blame that on anyone but the writer. I would blame that on Kishimoto. I really would. Because Sakura, I will say, this is another defense of a little bit like in her in her defense, Sakura did train under one of the signings. She did, she she had a massive glow-up from the person that she was in the original Naruto series before Shep in. And they did almost everything you could think of to continue to undermine the glow-up that she did have. She did get stronger, literally got stronger. And she um was able to, and she was able to take on the medical ninjutsu of the one literally the only person in the world who could do the who could like do those skills. And learned all of her techniques. Nobody else was able to do that.

SPEAKER_07 24:01

And she made the class five mutant, and yet she still falls on the ground.

SPEAKER_10 24:05

That's that's a different thing.

SPEAKER_07 24:07

But anyway, but I'm not saying Socrates not.

SPEAKER_10 24:11

I would say Socrates more of a victim, a victim of like writing that glorifies Naruto and Sasuke more so than it does like make her a bad character.

SPEAKER_07 24:20

Well, I don't say she was a bad character, I just said she has her moments where I'm just like, I don't should have done more.

SPEAKER_10 24:27

I was telling someone the other her worst moment was when she was like, I'm gonna kill Sasuke. Really? Are you gonna are you gonna do that girl? Alright, cool. And then she runs, then she takes her little poison kuna, tries to make the shit happen. She tries to kill him and then gags when he tries to kill her bad. She's like, oh my god, he tried to kill him. Like, I'm sorry, did you not come here to murder him? What do you think? What did you think he was gonna do?

unknown 24:48

No.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Ineffective.

SPEAKER_08 24:51

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_08 24:55

Fine. Ineffective then, not now. Now she's doing it. That's all I gotta say about that.

SPEAKER_10 25:00

Oh, she's doing as much as the writing will allow her to do.

SPEAKER_08 25:03

Fine, sure. What is she doing?

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Wait, what? What is she doing now?

SPEAKER_08 25:10

Like I said, she took the place of Tsunade. She's the head of medical. Like, she's she's coming up with new medical ninjutsu concepts and uh techniques.

SPEAKER_07 25:18

She's not raising her daughter. That's what she's doing. She spends more time. She's not raising her daughter.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

She's not by her daughter who thinks that her mother's somebody else.

SPEAKER_07 25:25

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 25:26

She spends more time in the house getting hated by her daughter who thinks that her mother is somebody else.

SPEAKER_09 25:31

I literally disagree before he said. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

They did debug that, but that was like a whole good season.

SPEAKER_08 25:37

Well, excuse, excuse, excuse Sakura for getting getting hitched and having a child by a man who's gonna wander the world, show her no love. She's used to being alone, so she forgot she has a child sometimes. She at least makes dinner at happiness.

SPEAKER_07 25:57

Socks get in trouble for the wedding. He was there. He wasn't there. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_10 26:13

He wasn't there, and you know it. Oh my god. So moving on for the not an original episode. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

So he was about to go in though. Go ahead, Miss Kittles. What? Oh no, I'm just saying, like, like how you marry and have kids with somebody who didn't fuck with you forever. Forever! At no time. At no time. So what are we doing?

unknown 26:40

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 26:40

No comment.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

All right.

SPEAKER_07 26:44

So on that note. Oh, and Ash sucks. Done. Oh. I don't think anybody can argue that.

SPEAKER_08 26:56

I don't think anybody can argue that.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

That's Hinata too. Bitch, oh no.

SPEAKER_08 27:02

Wait, wait, wait. We were done. You ain't gone on Hinata. Nah.

SPEAKER_07 27:06

Here's the thing about Hinata, right? Like where Sakura. Actually, they did the exact same thing. Where Hinata was terrible. Naruto did not see it.

SPEAKER_10 27:17

Wasn't checking for her at all. Until like the movie The Last. That was the only thing.

SPEAKER_05 27:21

It was the movie the last.

SPEAKER_07 27:22

And it was her last chance to fucking get Naruto to notice her.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

What? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 27:30

Naruto wasn't actively abusive.

SPEAKER_07 27:32

Here's the thing. Naruto wants to be in the office working, then be home with his kids and his wife. He's there too. He's a clone.

SPEAKER_10 27:43

I think Naruto being Hokage is more like he didn't want he doesn't want to be in the office. I think that Shikamado's like, so you want us to do this? This is what all this entails. You're not just about to be sitting up here waiting for shit to happen in the village. You're acting, you have paperwork to do.

SPEAKER_08 27:55

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You haven't seen Bodoto, so you don't know that he enjoys the paperwork and he has over a thousand shadow clones all over the fire nation uh fire nation, all over the uh the village, specifically doing shit for as Naruto. Now, I will say he ain't shit as a father because he didn't send a shadow clone home for uh uh Himowari's uh birthday Hinowari.

SPEAKER_10 28:22

And what time is it Himawarian and palmed this nigga in the stomach and he thinks he was PKO for a minute because he was something completely different.

SPEAKER_08 28:32

But anyway, that was it. Okay, fine. Yes, yes, just say your net.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

I have an honorable mention. So to me, from Akaga no Kill, Akaga. Akamagaku. I can't remember the name. Akamagaku. Yes, Akame Nokio and um Tenji Muyo, they got the same energy every time I see them. They're just kind of there, and it's like I don't know why. For some reason, these characters give them big dick energy and they have like little dick energy. Like, I don't understand like what is going on. Like, you got all these fine ass characters, oh my god, Tenji, and these fine ass characters, like, oh my god, this is to me, but I'm like, but what the fuck do they do? Like, what do they do? And I don't understand like why these people are dying, and like I love you so much, but like he adds nothing there. Like you take him out and he adds nothing.

SPEAKER_08 29:22

You actually I don't I forget if it was you or if it was Miss Kittles. You mentioned something about this maybe two weeks ago about or it was last week, uh, specifically about the harm anime, but specifically about the uh protagonists kind of having, you know, it ain't shit, not that they aren't like over the top. Basic, yeah, I believe that was the word that was used. And having people drawn to them. Well, it's it's oh wait, we're I think we're talking about Ezeth. Oh, uh um Dama was in it as well, talking about Ez Death about the fact that you know Ez Death had like her father had this like high expectations for like life, and then even when he died, Ezdev, uh like he told Ezdev, well, shit, I an ain't I'm an ain't shit nigga because uh I died. Be better than me. And then she comes across this nigga tat uh tattoo. Did I say that right? Yes, no?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

I think Tatuya Tatuya.

SPEAKER_10 30:14

It was uh the tattoo tattoo me, one of those.

SPEAKER_08 30:17

Comes across this nigga who, even though he knows he's weak, even though he knows he can't beat her or fight or beat anybody else, he still has what's the word? Um stood up to her.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yes. Yo, he's like everybody else is afraid. I don't get it. Like, Ez is like the pinnacle of a Dom. Like, she is the goddess Dom.

SPEAKER_08 30:39

It's it's when you find a person, like if think about it, if every other person comes up to you and accepts your dumbness and 100% becomes a sub immediately, and then you have that one person who's either too dumb to realize it or is so more of Dom than you to overcome your dumbness.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Of course that's gonna turn you on. He's a bradly sub. That's what that is.

SPEAKER_10 31:02

Is he even that? Um let's not give him that. Let's not give him the the the look. That is not what this episode is about.

SPEAKER_08 31:08

So, what I'm going to do is lead it over to Kazette.

SPEAKER_10 31:15

Oh. So many things. I expect all this on this episode today.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

I know.

SPEAKER_06 31:26

Oh man. So uh it was funny. I I almost did Goku, but uh, but I I knew who uh our other panelists was. That wouldn't be necessary. And honestly, if we was if if I was gonna talk about Goku, I would probably uh I'd probably sooner to defend him. Uh specifically because uh uh go you know, Goku never wanted to be a hero. Goku is the logical conclusion of a motherfucker who wants to fucking fight. Yeah, and and it just so happens that that uh his existence you know comes between them and annihilation every X amount of episodes. Also, Chi Chi entrapped that nigga, he ain't know what a p was. I'd say he he he pulled up Bowman's dress looking for looking for balls, was confused. Explain parenthood or adulthood to him. This nigga has one concept. You don't mean eat people, this nigga can survive in the wild killing dinosaurs and shit.

SPEAKER_10 32:32

Yeah, he was raised by an old man who taught him how to fight.

SPEAKER_06 32:37

And that's you know, that's all he had. That's all you should expect from him.

SPEAKER_07 32:43

Um I would agree with you, but Master Roshi. What about Roshi? That nigga could have taught him something about pussy. I'm just saying. Anything command mayor for master.

SPEAKER_10 33:03

I mean, even Krillin could have told him something. Somebody could have said something.

SPEAKER_08 33:07

I mean, but at the time when he met Krillin, was he really thinking about that? Like, did Krillin Krillin it's not like Goku Goku told him his childhood. Krillin's not gonna know, oh, you know nothing about women. And Krillin was just being one of the boys. Krillin was spotting women, like uh, what was her name? Uh huh. Krillin married a sex doll. Let's I'm not going there. Um, no, I'm talking about the woman that lived inside of uh spot bash. What is her name? Lived in Roshi's house. Lunch, right? Launch, thank you. I couldn't hear it. Sorry. Yes, like he was looking at Launch the entire time, thinking, you know, Goku's looking too, not knowing Goku's just paying attention to the fact that she can't fight or she's angry, she looks like she wants to fight. That's it. That's all it was.

SPEAKER_10 33:49

So I would say Krillin more so knew how knew that Goku was stupid, but he knows how stupid Goku was.

SPEAKER_08 33:54

Sure, let's go with that.

SPEAKER_10 33:55

He underestimated how stupid he was, and it wasn't until they got older where even Vegeta was like, I'm sorry, nigga, what how did I lose to you? Are you serious?

SPEAKER_07 34:04

Because I mean they're stupid, and there's like Goku did hit his head as a baby.

SPEAKER_10 34:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 34:09

Yeah, he did. Yeah, he's special.

SPEAKER_10 34:12

Yep. But uh he still wasn't special enough to be brawly, but that's something about this.

SPEAKER_06 34:16

Wow. The power of writing. Oh, you mean the power of the power of fusion? Oh the first time real fusion. It was literally like, oh, we wrote uh I wrote myself into a quarter, and we just we just gonna do this thing that we can't do. But uh, but yeah, yeah, go's my first thought, but I didn't want I didn't want to I didn't want to go Goku. Um uh oh and you know, slight, you know, slight and slight defense of uh Miss Ms. Usagi. Uh uh, you know, in uh in a overcrowded world of uh of shown anime, you know, uh, you know, Sailor Moon was a was an action-packed shojo. And and I did, you know, and I didn't mind that uh, you know, she she pretty much weaponizes love and compassion.

SPEAKER_09 35:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 35:14

And and at the end of the day, uh all everybody else's competence and strength and intelligence was was wasn't gonna get the job done. Enemies were were fucking um regular people like who like like it's like like it's like this hairdresser and she's having like bad emotions, and and Queen Beryl turns that bitch into a uh a demon pair of scissors.

SPEAKER_04 35:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 35:44

If the Santa Scouts could beat her, which they couldn't, they just would have killed the bitch.

SPEAKER_10 35:50

Yep. I don't see a problem with that, but go on.

SPEAKER_06 35:55

I mean, they if if if if the Sailor Scouts were murdering uh every week, they would have quit.

SPEAKER_08 36:01

That's true.

SPEAKER_10 36:02

But uh I mean hey, and I will say in Sailor Moon Crystal, Sailor Moon definitely did she stopped talking, she just jumped down and just got the shit done.

SPEAKER_06 36:13

All I'm saying is that uh, you know, you know, it it definitely had like you know a message that like, you know, if if if if being you know being lovely and compassionate and friendly is is is the best thing you're at, that's not the worst thing in the world. You know, I think that's a fine message for someone, even if you know they didn't uh somebody. Um but uh yeah, my choice um uh it's a painful one. Oh it was uh you know many many years of uh following this person, getting to know them, you know, seeing their you know their triumphs and their um you know their tribulations, their failures. And and it wasn't until uh uh you know we got to the end of their story that their uh their story uh their character was assassinated uh by by their writers.

SPEAKER_08 37:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 37:17

Uh which I I I would love to divorce from the character, but I can't exactly that's that's fucking candy. That's what the fuck happened. So um uh yeah, I saw a nice uh I saw a nice quote. It was in a video essay I saw uh it said uh uh power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. And uh my uh oh let me get my phone. What'd you do? Uh yeah, but I would like to talk about uh uh Dana Stormborne of the House Targaryen.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Oh Lord I thought about that last night. I thought hard about it, and I was like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 38:14

Felicia of the Great Grass Sea, and the mother of dragons.

SPEAKER_10 38:19

Yes, read the resume.

SPEAKER_06 38:27

You know, she was you know, she was like such a you know and you know, interesting character. Like, you know, every every terrible thing that happened to her, like, you know, she she you know found one way or another to uh you know turn to her benefit. And and she, you know, and she was definitely like you know, cruel at times, but it was always, you know, it always like made sense. She always adhered to uh her own sense of justice. She was very consistent. Um I know she was uh you know when she was uh when she was gathering power you know across the sea, uh and like and they was more or less like, yo, we can get ready to go. And she and she was like uh and she was like, well, she was like, how many slaves are there in Yunkai? And and uh and and uh her general was like, oh 200,000 or more. And then she was like, well, we got 200,000 reasons to stay here and fix this. And like, you know, like that was you know, say saving, you know, saving people and ending slavery was like core tenets for her. So the so the so say seeing her uh absurdly quick descent into this uh villain was was so was not it was not only painful, but it was stupid. Like because it was like, okay, Cersei killed your best friend and Cersei has the throne you need. But but but but Cersei's also like the almost the epitome of like everything you hate like she was the she was the perfect poor person for her just just to focus on. And and and what and what she did and what she did was just torture the entire fucking city for no reason. And and the reason that pissed me off was in the time it took her to torch the city, if if Cersei just just uh didn't run out of fucks, Cersei could just got on a fucking boat and and ran out the back of the city somewhere. But I'd say that Danny destroyed the city, never even lied, laid eyes on Cersei, did it? You know, Cersei died in a in a fucking cave in because she stayed in her castle. She didn't because Cersei didn't have to do that. But it and it's kind of like, you know, how like what what is the worth of your revenge if you didn't even like you know, you you didn't even make eye contact with the nigga who's done all this shit to you. Like it was it was it was so sad. Like it like and and and what made it like worse was like she made she made Tyrion her hand and and they just wrote Tyrion to be stupid. He was the he was more or less the smartest person in the world, and and as soon as and as soon as he needed her to do tactically sound things, everything, everything he suggested was just wrong for no reason. Like it's just like so she's a lot of those like if iffy tactical things. Like, and and you know, and I think and I and I think what like felt one of the things that felt the worst was they I I think think they I think they they felt needed to dem demonize her so that when so that when Tyrion and John betrayed her and and planned on killing her, that them two that those two can remain sympathetic because somebody needed to be heroes. And and and and you know, and apparently Danny was never, you know, never meant that. Um and it's just it was so many years.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

It was so much It was sad as fuck. I agree. It was it was so sad. Uh I had um watching it, I just knew she was about to be, you know, the hero and and my my favorite character. And as as the years went on, it was just like, what are you doing? Like slowly, like you went from like this strong, like woman empowerment, you know, all of these going through all of these emotions, and and for the end, it it was just like I'm not, I'm not mad that I'm not mad that that you know you was assassinated. I'm I'm upset that you went through all of that hard work and and destroyed everything that you built from the beginning. So I'm not mad. I'm just like, damn, damn, boo. Yeah, damn baby.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

I agree. Her hunger for power ended up killing her. That's how I see it, you know, and um she was because before she went in with a pure heart, but then she was uh the power was an addiction. And I think that's really what caused her death. You know what I'm saying? So, and but we see that it it is realistic though. It even gets to when people get into certain professions, you know, you have a passion and desire for a pure heart, but then you start to get tainted. You either want more money, or you know, so it's like your your view or the passion, you know, the reason why you went. To doing what you did originally is changed. And that was definitely her. It was, it was sad, but it also made it realistic as well. So, you know, I can definitely see that in real life, you know, outside of the book or the movie. That's something that's common. People lose sight of what it actually is supposed to be for.

SPEAKER_10 44:21

So you know what? I don't think Danny lost sight of what she wanted to do. Because like as I think about her story in this moment, as I think about where she came from, from like from the very like bottom, from the beginning, she was carted off as a slave to someone else to be their wife, and then inevitably made her way into being this um this monarch for uh a monarch, this liberating monarch. And then towards the end of the series, you know, she I don't think she lost sight of that goal. I think along the way, she met people like Tyrion and like Varys who believed in her and gassed her up and told her and fed her this narrative that she is she is the justice that the world needed to see and that the world needed. And I think that amount of pressure being put on her led to this uh this these final couple of seasons where um it is revealed that she is not the last, she's not the last Targaryen. And then you introduce this conflict that, oh, John is also John is the last Targaryen, but not actually he's not only the last Targaryen, not one of he's not just one of the last Targaryen, he's the last male Targaryen. Like he is the one who um, by you know, the very the by the very nature of monarchy is suited to be the throne. And John wasn't a bad person, he made some shitty decisions that he made some questionable decisions, but which but that that reveal, I think, hints to what Kaze was talking about. It's like the writing kind of pigeonholed, sorry, the writing kind of pigeonholed Danny into having to take this stance of needing to grasp at power that was that she's fought very hard for, that was about to be snatched away from her by virtue of the fact that simply because she was a woman. And by the time from that point, at least from my perspective, things started to take this downward spiral because it was like everything that she had been fighting for, everything like everything that she had done, everything that she was going to do was now in jeopardy. The liberation that she wanted to bring to the world was now in jeopardy because of some some man who didn't care about any of it, didn't want any of it, had no um had no um goals or ambition towards what it meant for people to be free and all of that, and then the things that were continually taken away from her, her Masende being the final the straw that broke the camel's back, to be perfectly honest with you, to me is understandable. Now, I don't think the last season was amazing in any way. I don't think it was terrible either, but I think that the way it was written could have been better, but it also to some degree made sense in the in the way that Danny acted. Because um, if at least from my perspective, a lot of things were put onto her shoulders. And uh again, Massande being her closest confidant, her first real friend, and the one that she invested the most love and care into being snatched away from her from the one person who she tried to, she one she tried to work with, to inevitably tried to build some sort of you know partnership with overall, turned against her in more ways than one and left her, left her out to dry, and then knew she had to come for this bitch, inevitably. That's what that was what the final conflict was going to be. And then them turning her into her, them having her say fuck it at the very end and just burning all that shit made some degree of sense because now her retribution has been sullied by them finally taking the knee, which is what she owned the only thing she ever asked anyone to do who came against her is like, I don't, I'm not, I don't want to kill you, but if you take the knee, then we can avoid any unnecessary, we can avoid, we can avoid any real unnecessary conflicts. And what I needed from Danny, I didn't get overall, but where the story wound up going undermined the character that they had built for her, and the character that they had built for Cersei as well, because at the end of the day, Cersei was bound like these two powerful women were undermined by men once again, and their placement in the world.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

I mean, but again, rage will make you do some rational, irrational shit. But I feel like Cersei at the end, you could have just took your dragon and fucking blew her ass up. You didn't have to kill the entire kingdom because then again, people in her kingdom feared her. They did what she told because she was ruthless. So, you know, and basically the you know, the dragon princess, the dragon queen, and the bond, she just wanted to have people be free. They wanted people to be free of slavery and to be free of oppression. And so we have Teres to do with oppressing her own people, you know, really, really badly. But again, her people intend, but because she caused that. So I feel like for her, Danny should have just killed Teresy, to be totally honest. I mean, and if you if you wanted just to be, if she wanted all of the kingdoms to be under her rule, these are her people, then kill her. Those are the people that she was oppressing, you know, the Teres was oppressing her own people. She was doing some barbaric shit. I just felt like she should have just took the dragon, just fucking blew her ass up to the tower and be done with it instead of just because Danny, I mean, Cersei didn't care about her people. So it was like what not at all. Yeah, so it's like it didn't perceive for Danny to, you know, kill them. These are innocent people.

SPEAKER_10 49:54

So this is she did play almost every episode in the last two seasons, though. I will hoo-hoo.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

So I don't know. I I felt like, you know, the writers, again, I didn't read the book. So it could have been how the book was.

SPEAKER_10 50:08

So don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah, I I haven't read the book. So it could very well be that how Danny and how Ceresy is inside the book is vastly different from the show. Um, you could tell that's different because they kind of did a botched up job of kind of hurrying shit up at the last season anyway. And um it did a it did do a disservice to both of the characters. You had all these seasons of character development just to have them just die very quickly, which made no sense to me. Um, you know, but again, I just felt like I understood the rage of Danny, but her killing Cersei's people kind of was counterproductive. You just should have just killed the bitch and just call it the day. But I don't know. That's just how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

Cersei's was still unsatisfying.

SPEAKER_06 50:54

Fuck it, Jamie. Like it was, it was it was all so pointless, and that's why I I hate the season. They did they almost on purpose did every character an injustice. Like it was, it was it was it was so fucking sad. Like, like I don't, I don't, like, if if if the story was building up to uh uh honestly a line of crazy people, you know, this girl like losing her sanity as she tries to like do right battle world, that would have been fine, but that's not the story they wrote. And like very and very specifically, the uh, you know, uh when when they were when they were pretty much you know justifying like her her like loss of of sanity, it was like the silliest shit, like, like, what like what like like like a one science of just being just sassy for no reason. Like like your your whole country would be dead if it wasn't for her, but I'm I'm just I'm I'm just gonna dislike this bitch. And and then it's like and then it's like you just you just got here, and it's like, oh, but you know, the northerners like John better than me. It's like bitch, he grew up here. What you mean? Like, what do you mean? Like, like literally over half of this c over half of this fucking continent is already in support of you. And for everybody who doesn't support you, you have a fucking dragon. Like, like it was literally like your your job was was pretty much done. Like the only thing you really had to do was punish the person who who hurt you and and and like and caused you to go to like unnecessary war. So it was like you know, like it was and at that time she had two. Yeah. Yeah. And uh and and and then and then Drogon's like fucking uh power boot like the like they they like they they had like they had like 15 scorpions and and they and they fucking lacerated a fucking dragon, and and then and then we had a city, a city of like 150 scorpions. Oh why. Um and and and and and and Drogon is like suddenly too fast and he's immune to getting shot. It was it was it was it was just so unjustified. Like, like you they had so many opportunities to lead up to this or like hint at it or build up to it properly, and they was just like, no, we're just gonna make these fundamentally different people, like across the board, like and it was just kind of like that is you know, all because you wanted to rush it so you can get this star's job that you didn't get. Um so yeah, the true villains were the writers, like Joe said. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 53:40

Did you have another hero?

SPEAKER_06 53:44

Uh that was mostly it that I was gonna touch on Goku. I I did have another one I was gonna touch on, but we went on a little long and I forgot them. So that's fine. I said my little piece on Sailor Moon.

SPEAKER_08 54:02

Okay. So as you can see, I believe we've all not all of them, but we've given some of our grievances on uh the character development, the writing, and the uh concepts behind some of these so-called heroes, print protagonists, uh uh main characters, individuals who are supposed to be kind of beacons of light or uh uh embodiments of uh things we're supposed to follow after. Uh and between uh the Goku stands and the uh Sailor Moon fans, I believe we're going to get quite a few emails this week. So, anywho, uh just to wrap up the episode, uh thank you everybody for uh giving your input on each of these individual heroes and what makes them ineffective. Uh and uh anybody who's listening or watching on YouTube, feel free to uh follow us on our social medias, Upper Starcade. That's Twitch, Facebook, Instagram, or did I miss one? Twitch. Twitter. Ah, that thing. Yes. Um also, as I said before, if you have any questions, comments, concerns, thoughts, uh comments, concerns, thoughts, please feel free to email us uh at our mailbag, the blurred spectrum at umbralstark.com. Uh does anybody have uh social media handles they want to post? Anyone?

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Um you can follow me at Ms. Skittles underscore cosplay on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok, but I'll be on it.

SPEAKER_10 55:43

You can hit me at the Black McCoy on Facebook and uh mostly on Instagram. That's usually I spend most of my time. And uh yeah. And y'all can find Sayon A at Seone underscore comic play on Instagram and on Facebook. He said, don't come looking for me in the fuck. Stay right here.

SPEAKER_06 56:11

Uh I I just I did I put some uh YouTube videos out of the new Avengers beta, but I don't know the link to that motherfucker. I'm on at my channel, it says YouTube slash my videos. I'm like, oh that's not right. But yeah, I'll uh update you. Whatever the name of the YouTube channel is. Barrett 3b? Is that it? Okay, so let's try youtube.com slash Barrett3B. That's B-A-R-R-E-T 3B. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_08 56:46

If it's wrong, we'll let you guys know on the update. So um, so thank you everyone for uh listening.

SPEAKER_07 56:53

You went even you rude. Who try to end it without letting me and Rog go? You tried it, but anyway. Oh go ahead. All right, uh, you can follow me at uh Instagram at Joe Tsg. Also Noxue is trash. Goodbye. Wow.

SPEAKER_10 57:11

Throw all the shonen characters under the bus.

SPEAKER_08 57:14

I could go all day, actually. I I don't see I'm not, you know what? The episode's over. Okay, so thank you, everyone. Uh Rob did you the doctor that you have one?

SPEAKER_11 57:27

Oh no, you know I'm gonna be like sharing my social media.

SPEAKER_08 57:30

I know a bird. Thank you, everyone. Uh see you next week uh for our next episode. Bye. See ya