The Blerd Spectrum
The Blerd Spectrum
White Washing - Colorism in Entertainment
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The Blerds peel back the layers and peer into the problems and practices associated with picking people of particular pigmentation for productions on the big and small screen.
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Welcome back everyone to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast. This week we are going to be talking about whitewashing. And I am not talking about washing your white car. I am talking about placing individuals into roles.
SPEAKER_10I call shame.
SPEAKER_12Placing individuals into roles in television, uh movies, and animated series and anime, of course, and even video games at times, um, when they shouldn't be there, and they could be played by individuals who represent the character who is there. Uh subcategory of this is colorism and entertainment. Um, even possibly putting people who are of the same color who don't necessarily deserve or should be in that role, and could be placed uh or could be played by a proper uh or new actor. So uh first I'm going to uh introduce our panelists for today, starting with myself, Suchi No Shogun, uh seconded by uh the doctor. What's good, the black mccoy, whatever shampoo bracelets, kaze, hola Joe Tsg, and Sayone. Hello, so open forum, of course, having everybody talk about these different subjects. I'll put out some questions to see how everybody feels about it. So I want to do a round Robin and ask everybody what is a the first character, um, and of course the actor who should or should not have played that character, that comes to mind when you hear whitewashing. And I will start with the doctor.
SPEAKER_13First one that comes to mind. Um I probably gotta say Scarlet Johansson. I knew it, because I was like she's the face of it. She really is. And she's all she has multiple examples, but I think the one that stood up for me was um close in the show? Yes, close to the show. So, you know, that definitely, especially you know, that being an ad that I loved growing up, you know, something I really, really enjoyed, like one of my favorites. And I think that's why that one hit a little bit closer home from closer home for me. But yeah, like I feel like she's definitely kind of epitomizes a lot of the issues around whitewash and advertising, you know, Code, you mentioned about you know, basically the idea, the idea of a oh, you have to be big enough for this role, or like, oh, you need a big star for this and whatnot, which and the fallacies, you know, I think the Black McCord mentioned that like there's a fallacy there where that's not always true, and that's often at the detriment of the quality of the movie. I think she has that issue as well in a lot of cases. So yeah, Scarlet Johansen.
SPEAKER_12I have an idea what this person's uh choice may be, but I'm going to let him say it. Uh Kaze.
SPEAKER_11Uh well the first thing that comes to mind and uh in the thing that introduced me to the concept is uh the 1963 film uh Cleopatra. Didn't see that coming, but that is a good one. Yeah, I had to walk, I had to walk into the kitchen and ask my mother where Egypt was because apparently I was I was confused. Because it was all it was all white people in this movie. I thought it was a fundamental misunderstanding, and she's like, no, you're right, baby. This is I just watched the movie white people play everything.
SPEAKER_05I was like, oh that's so fair.
SPEAKER_12Because the mother, your mother knew. It's all right. You're not, you're not, you're not, you ain't done, you know exactly what you're talking about. So um, let's see.
SPEAKER_07Um, I was going to say Liz Claiborne, Cleopatra for sure. Oh wow. And um, yeah, I actually was. I was gonna say Liz Claiborne and Tilda Switten in Doctor Strange.
SPEAKER_11Motherfucker. That was a close second. Yeah, that's uh out.
SPEAKER_12Ah I like I I like them as an actor, and yeah, I didn't see it coming. I was like, oh let me just give it to them because they're a good actor, but it's like, ah nope, no.
SPEAKER_07Why why Pilba Switten? Like she always does abstract roles, yeah. They always do abstract roles, and you know, they're a great actress or actor, you know. But I I thought it was such a strange pick. Like, why? Like why the ancient one, I think that's the name of the character. But I was like, well, why? Well, all the people. Why, Tilda? So it's very strange, but I mean they're a phenomenal actor, but I just feel like they pick big name people to play roles that they really don't have any business doing, and it's not saying that you know you can't have like different races or ethnicities playing different roles, but it's just so common seeing white people play yeah, ethnic roles.
SPEAKER_03And we're not a one doctor strange, which is canonically like went through Asia.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, Agewanna is like a 3,000-year-old Tibetan guy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they made him like a three thousand, even if they made the angel a 3,000-year-old Tibetan woman, like it would have been uh more palatable than Tilda Swim. I'm not saying Tilda Swim didn't do a good job in the role line.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, she was great, shouldn't have been there.
SPEAKER_07But like Jose said with um you know Cleopatra, I it reminded me of um when I was in high school and I asked my world history teacher who's black, and I was like, um, I always see white Egyptians, but we're in Africa, where are the black Egyptians? All in the hieroglyphics are black. Why do I keep saying white people being portrayed as Egyptian? But never have I ever seen a black person being portrayed as Egyptian. And she was saying that that is true. It's just that I guess there's like a subgroup in Egypt that people just don't really see, but they're there. Like black people like us are in Egypt, but we just don't really, it's not being advertised.
SPEAKER_12So it's trying to make it right.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so it was interesting. It was it was, you know, so when Kaza said that, I was like, where are the black people? And I'm like the only, I think I was one of two black people in that class. Y'all just like I'm like, yeah, where are my people at?
SPEAKER_12So okay. Did you ask in front of the class or it was a lot of people?
SPEAKER_07I didn't give a fuck. I asked in front of all the white kids. I'm like, where the hell are my people at? Why look? You see brown skin in on the hieroglyphics. I don't see not one white girl on there or a black guy. Where are people? So they all just got quiet and just started looking around, like, yeah. And so, you know, it's just questions that I guess no one really asked too much in in public per se, but it's always questions that we've always had.
SPEAKER_03So even that question is kind of sketchy to me because like Egypt is like right there, even like Cairo is like right there, like Israel and Jordan, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia.
SPEAKER_07So I mean Well, she was saying that, you know, of course, a lot of the um Middle East, you know, people were coming into Africa, and a lot of you know, the reason why I think she's saying they're um fair skin Egyptians, or I guess they don't look as Afrocentric was because of the Middle East coming in and just integrating with a lot of the people. But she was saying, I was I'm talking about like, you know, where are the people that look like us on the hieroglyphics? Because like I don't see that at all. I don't even see that on TV, you know, and that's what I was like, where are they? Do they just completely, you know, inter, you know, have um just kind of mixed cultures to the point that, you know, we don't see us, or do they move somewhere? And so it was just interesting. She's like, Yeah, they're there, you just don't really see them that much. I'm like, interesting.
SPEAKER_12That's probably kind of because I don't understand why she would say the Middle Eastern people would come into Africa and all of a sudden those are the people you see. I don't get that doesn't I don't understand.
SPEAKER_07Well she did it a lot more edu, like she did it in a in a much, I guess, educational way than like I was like what 17, 16. I don't remember like the terminology she used, but she was saying, like, you know, there was a lot of people coming to the Middle East, and then I guess because of trade, I don't I don't remember specifically, but you know, she was saying that our skin tone, our people, as in like Afrocentric African people, are there, but she was saying like a lot of people are coming into Egypt and just kind of doing a lot of trade or whatever commerce and it's a lot of integrating of cultures and you know intermingling and and so I guess the dilution of the melanin, I'm not quite sure, so to speak, but that's where she was going. And I was like, why aren't you really seeing that in the public eye? Like you see Nigerians, you see West Africans, you see, but I was like, why am I not saying like Afrocentric black people? Like as a you know, like kind of like when when it comes to um South Africa. I was like, why are they all white? And so I was like, but this is Africa. I was like, why are they all white? These are questions I asked as a kid, and you know, and she was saying, no, they just white people came there, and then she was saying that a lot of white people pushed black people away. I'm like, but this is Africa. So it was just questions I asked as a kid because I was like, I don't understand. Because I had a um a classmate that was, you know, I'm South African and they're white, and I was like, this is interesting. So, you know, just questions that I guess they don't really explain to kids when they're younger. I don't know.
SPEAKER_13So you know what kills me about the uh the justification about the Middle Eastern people, you know, migrating into Africa in North Africa and into Egypt and whatnot, which that has some some degree of truth to it, but it definitely doesn't explain the erasure of you know dark-skinned, you know, we're in Africans. But like even like very two, but when we see those people, when we see those depictions of Egyptians as white people, they look like Arabs. So I think I see those textbooks with like blonde-haired, blue-eyed, you know, straight-haired white people, you know, wearing like Pharaoh's garments. Right. That's like a Middle Eastern person, you know.
SPEAKER_05Exactly.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I I did I did just find out uh way too recently that uh that that Cleopatra was actually Greek. Yeah. And it became like a Greek province like right after she died. So that that that was that was definitely some uh early you know colonialism.
SPEAKER_03Which is interesting because even Greek people dealt with like regular ass like Salonia. It's like y'all just wanted everybody look Aryan for some reason. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12So the black McCoy.
SPEAKER_03Oh, um, I guess I'll I'll kind of go off the beaten path and I'll say what I said earlier. I definitely will go with Zoe Saldana when they painted her up, made her be Nita Simone for that movie, and they were thought okay. Or maybe everyone didn't think it was okay. She thought the shit was okay, it wasn't okay. It was like, it was the most awkward, awkward depiction of blackface in my time that I've seen, especially on the big screen, in a way that was like overtly offensive, but for some reason it was supposed to be like, oh, well, she, you know, she's an actress, she's doing her doctor. It's like the same conversation we had when we were talking about cosplay. And blackface was like, just don't do it. Like, if you want to do Nina Simone, get someone who looks remotely like Nino Nina Simone or someone at least that same complexion. Don't get Zoe Saldana and then basically paint her daughter. Yeah, that was that one for me.
SPEAKER_12That was that one. Um Joe T S G.
SPEAKER_10Um, so the movies that come to mind are like uh that Egyptian movie that came out in like 2016. What was it? Um where it casts at nothing but like white people gods of Egypt, that one uh that like Prince of Persia that comes to mind for the exact same reason. Also, the the last Airbender movie.
SPEAKER_11Oh god.
SPEAKER_12I thought we were going to I I got what Kaze literally said every movie I was about to say.
SPEAKER_07I on purpose did not say Avatar because I knew somebody was gonna say I'm like, let me leave that.
SPEAKER_12I was sure Kaze was gonna take it.
SPEAKER_10Uh okay, but I'll leave the I'll leave the other one then for you guys. Uh but the King of Fighters, that one.
SPEAKER_03I've never made a King of Fighters movie.
SPEAKER_10You're welcome. I doesn't feel like you need to see it now, but still you don't. Uh and the new mutants that recently came out as well. Oh, yeah. Wait, who mutants? Uh so like the everybody.
SPEAKER_11That's what I was telling.
SPEAKER_10Pretty much everybody.
SPEAKER_03Actually you played you played on Blue Star, she was she was Native American. She actually was full of Native American.
SPEAKER_11Gotcha. Uh but um uh yeah, Sunspot. Remember, he was uh they they they picked uh the director picked the light skinned Brazilian dude because that's what he imagined when he imagined rich Brazilian. But yeah, but Sunspot was dark skinned.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_07That I didn't know see I didn't know much about the new mutants. I just I just watched it the c the um other day. It was okay, but I didn't know Sunspot was Brazilian. I he just kind of looked Latin American, like a light-skinned Latin American in the movie, but I had no idea that who was like supposed to be a darker tone Brazilian person.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, then you have that like wealthy wealth and colorism aspect kind of go hand in hand.
SPEAKER_10And um, oh, one of my favorite movies, Noah. That came out in 2014.
SPEAKER_03Oh god, I forgot about that movie with the rock monsters.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah. Yeah, legit, everybody was white in that shit. Everybody was white. The rock monsters were white, everybody was just white.
SPEAKER_11No, I see that. I didn't see that. You're welcome.
SPEAKER_12So I'll do mine. So I the main ones I wanted to talk about were actually voice actors, uh, although I did have a movie I wanted to talk about too. So, real quick, voice actors. So recently, and I was talking to Joe TSG earlier about this, uh, a lot of voice actors who were previously cast uh uh as people of color, at least the voices of the people of color, have either quit or resigned or you know, you know, just pretty much said we can't do it anymore. And it brought to light a lot. I mean, granted, a lot of us already knew, all you have to do is you know read the credits and Google people, but that's if you cared. And you know, we celebrate, you know, voice actors like uh Tara Strong or Kree Summers, who played like thousands upon thousands of characters over the years.
SPEAKER_03Uh black people included, Governor Creed.
SPEAKER_12Uh, but then when you think about um the more popularized ethnic characters on popular shows, like for example, Apu on The Simpsons for years, played by a white man. And people are just like, wait, what? Because of how thick Apu's accent was supposed to be. So people are like, oh, it's just gotta be an Indian or Hindu man, and I did not know that.
SPEAKER_07I just found that out from now. Today you're today years old. Wow.
SPEAKER_12So, you know, same thing with Cleveland Brown. Cleveland Brown played by a white man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Yeah. Cleveland Brown is played by a white man.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. And he just recently quit and said you should give the job to somebody else. There's so many different voice actors who, you know, it's that they go for the person who has the most range, who has the ability, and but then, you know, because of the the the how they're trying to bring more light to it and how they're trying to make people understand that these roles can be voiced by people who look like the character that you're drawing, they're like, okay, well, you know, I'm gonna step back. Give this to somebody who's African American, give this to somebody who's Native American, give this to somebody who is Hindu, give this to somebody who is Chinese or Japanese, or you know, give to somebody, give this to a person of color. Um, let them take the role. I mean, keep in mind, it's not like you're trying to uh uh cast them with their face, you're casting them with their voice. And if you're playing somebody who sounds like what you're going for, just get somebody to speak the role. It's very easy. But you know, there have been a lot of issues uh with that. Um, like even uh Dr. Wong, I think is their name on Rick and Morty. Am I not interested in my career?
SPEAKER_03I don't remember Dr. Wong. I mean I've watched Rick and Morty, but not enough to know who Dr. Wong is.
SPEAKER_01The psychiatrist?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_12Yes, played by a white woman. Yes. And she was like, um it was supposed to be originally they were gonna have an Asian American woman play the role, but then they picked somebody else. I think they said they picked Susan Sarandon.
SPEAKER_05So it's like almost the corner and weaver.
SPEAKER_12It's very random, but it's a name. I don't know why you would want Susan Sarandon and Ricky Morty, but you know, not my show, somebody else's. Um so it's like, you know, those types of things happen all the time, but now they're bringing more awareness to the fact that let's put people in these roles who are supposed to be in these roles. Um, and then I had a movie and it completely evaporated from my mind. And it was a really, really good one. But I'll remember it later, not gonna waste any time. So let's go to shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_01Um one of my favorite um movies is the West Side Story. And apparently, I actually just found out that's how much I was paying attention. Um, that neither of the a uh actors were uh Puerto Rican descent, they were actually like American actors. Oh yeah, yeah. Um another one that my mom loved when we talked about it was um Lone Ranger Tonto.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my dad talked about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I love Johnny Depp as an actor, but I just that role should have gone to somebody that was Native American, my point of view. Okay. Um and then we were talking about Death Note the Live Action, the one that came out in 2017.
SPEAKER_03Also trying to speak about that book dramatized.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, that was just wrong.
SPEAKER_12I mean, to to kind of go in line with what you just said, a lot of the anime adapted movies that get brought to the real screen live action have been I'm not gonna say all whitewashed because I'm sure I'm not thinking of all of them, but the majority of the ones that hit the movie theaters in the US have been white. I mean, I don't want to bring it up because we really shouldn't say it existed, but the Dragon Ball Z movie, I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay, okay, you just took Mark movie.
SPEAKER_12Um, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01He was getting there, I didn't say it because he was doing it. Um yeah, I I never watched that movie and just when looking at the you know the picture. I will never fucking watch that movie. Yeah, it looks awful. No, um, I think those movies, if you're gonna do a live action adaptation of an anime, you should stick to the ethnicity of the characters. Um it takes away from the anime to me. Like, don't do that. Stop trying to insert yourself into something that you shouldn't be inserted into.
SPEAKER_11What were we gonna say, Kazi? Uh at the at the very least, uh uh deaf definite way for a reimagining set in America so they so they they have white people in Japan. That's true.
SPEAKER_03It was part, it was it was it was much it was much less nuanced and more poorly told as a story, but I think the best casting decision for that movie was uh San Fu. No, no, nigga who played Rek whose name I forget. Um he played Osborne in the first Spider-Man movie, um, Boondoc Saints. Uh he voice reach it'll come to me later.
SPEAKER_12Okay, Martin.
SPEAKER_09I got nothing. What? I'm scared every single one of them. I got nothing. Like my list, and then you took the last ones. Like I got nothing.
SPEAKER_12Sorry.
SPEAKER_07I have another one. The King and I. Going way back. The King and I the after one was white and then he did blackface. So yeah, I mean, you know, I'm a child of Broadway and musicals and technicolor. So as a kid, I didn't know any better. Until I got old, I'm like, wait a second, that guy was not Asian. He was white with a fake ass accent, a horrible accent. Like it was it was horrible. And I was like, wow. So it just kind of makes you rethink your classics, your childhood classics, are they problematic? And it's like extremely you know, like you know, as an adult, it's like I even feel guilty liking it. And then you have like just kind of this weird tugawar of feelings like this was racist and problematic. But as a kid, I didn't know any better. But it's like now, you know, yeah, so I don't know. This is very strange feelings. But a lot of um movies around that time, you know, they they kind of did what the Grecians did in a sense that you know, they didn't want any women um acting, so they had men act because women couldn't act at all. So, you know, when it comes to came to black actors, they either blackface them or they tapcasted them as the you know, the lady Aunt Jemima person from Tom and Jerry, or they were the tap dancing Negro, or the yes uh, you know, or the door holder, you know, very minuscule, so to speak, ain't shit roles. And that's what they were only, you know, worth playing and you know, around that time. So yeah, it's just uh just very interesting now.
SPEAKER_03Ooh, uh we missed one, uh Mickey Rooney when he was in Breakfast at Tiffany's when he played uh Mr. Yunioshi.
SPEAKER_07Ah man, that takes it back. I don't remember that character. I just remember Auntie Burn.
SPEAKER_03He was like the I think he lived in her building or whatever. I think he was racist as fuck. He had on like these huge buck teeth things and like squinted his eyes and his glasses. It was it was terrible. Oh wow.
SPEAKER_07Wow. They always had white people play Asian actors, and it was always a caricature on what they thought Asian people were. Who like categorized Chinese, you know what I'm saying? It's like they didn't even care about knowing what you know which country they were from in Asia. They're like, they're Chinese. I'm like, what? You know, so that's just kind of just very horrible. Ugh, but it's I don't know, as you as you're when you get older and you know, and much more cultured and you you see what the bullshit is like wow, people got away with this shit for this long?
SPEAKER_03Like, mm-hmm It's interesting because even in that moment when you say culture, I kind of conflated it with like a degree of awareness, and I kinda and part of me doesn't want to allow people the luxury of like being uncultured or just and I would just I want to just thrust upon them the the what I think to be the truth of just being ignorant of you know outs what exists outside of themselves.
SPEAKER_06It's very true.
SPEAKER_03Like it's very it's it's not hard. I don't think it's difficult to to know that there are other countries besides China that exist in Asia, but to kind of just thrust so many Asian people into, oh yeah, they're just Chinese or yeah, they're Japanese, like without any real investigation into the fact that, oh yeah, you know what, just because I only know of like one prominent country, or only here one prominent country, doesn't mean that there are other people that don't exist in the you know in that nationality or with that ethnic idea.
SPEAKER_07I think a lot of people do that, um, aside from you know white people of that you know of that time or whatever. A lot of people do that in general, um, just the ignorance or just kind of not caring. Caribbean people do it all the time, you know. Um Korean people be like, oh yeah, the Chinaman. And I'm like, they're not from fucking China. You know what I'm saying? So it's it's that ignorance just crosses world bounds, you know, or seeing how black people are portrayed in Asian culture. You know, I've seen black people being, you know, I've seen Asian people black facing white characters on TV. Um, you know what I'm saying? Um, and they know about black culture, but they, you know, and they live the black culture, but then they put a black face and caricature of black people. So that's I think it's just, you know, there is no excuse for culture, cultural or racial insensitivity when everything is so interconnected in the entire world. Like just go on Google.
SPEAKER_12I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with what you're saying. Um, I what what that brings me back to is a point that Miss Skittles made on one of the uh earlier episodes where she was talking about a um event that she was having with uh Urban Lounge, uh Urban Gamer Lounge, I think it's called anime lounge.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm saying, keep it in.
SPEAKER_12You up. Um no, but she was talking about a kind of cross uh country or cross-group um event that they were having, and there was a gentleman from another country, and uh they were a group of cosplayers, and they were supposed to be taking pictures or doing something on live stream, and they, you know, they were picking certain characters because it was for Black Lives Matter, and he had encouraged them to uh uh play certain um urban or African or people of color characters, and then he encouraged them to darken their skin to fit the roles better. And you know, Miss Kittles, huh?
SPEAKER_03They're supposed to be doing bleach characters.
SPEAKER_12Bleach characters, yes. And um, thank you. And then Miss Skittles was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, that's that's not okay. Don't do that. So, and the reason why I bring that up is because he 100% felt like doing that was bringing an homage to the character based off of his personal uh cultural understanding of that situation, not thinking that there was anything wrong with it. I agree with you, where a simple Google can help you understand the uh the insensitivities that we'll face, that we face, and that we see on our side of the pond when it comes to people blackfacing or darkening their skin for certain characters, but people in other countries and continents may feel as though there's nothing wrong with it. And by nothing wrong, I mean they just may say, Oh, we're just doing it to state a point. And I the I was gonna reference um this is one commercial that always every time I think of whitewashing, it's the first thing that comes to my mind. But it's because it was a um uh commercial for a washing machine, I believe, or detergent. And it was uh I think the doctor remembers that one, where it's the Asian girl when she's dating or she's with a black guy, and at the beginning of the commercial, it kind of goes, Oh no, that's dirty, and then she puts the black guy into the washing machine, puts like Mr. Sparkle into the washing machine, washes him, pulls him out, he comes up like halfway through, and he's like a light skin. No, I think he's a white Chinese dude in blackface, puts him back into the washing machine, takes him out, and he's a white boy, pure as snow, or white or Asian dude pure snow. And it's like the level of sensitivity there is they don't see a problem with it because they're just trying to sell their product. Oh, this is dirty, this is clean, let's clean it. See what I'm saying? And I'm not I'm not disagreeing that it is wrong, it's because of however their, and I I'm not a specialist on this in no way, shape, or form, but it's whatever their media was as time progressed, whatever started the growth of their understanding of African American caricatures, um, uh blackface, the Jim Crow era, if they ever saw those types of things, if there was nobody there to say this is offensive, this is wrong, this is insensitive, then they just took it as, oh, this is just television, this is just entertainment. So this is okay. So if there's nobody there to say, stop, don't do that, then they'll just continue doing it and thinking it's a part of what they're supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_13And you know, it speaks in part to the need for black people to be in those spaces when those decisions are being made.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Because I'm sure a hundred people signed off on that commercial and didn't see an issue. I think if you had one black person in that room, at a bare minimum, they would say, okay, this stuff this might not fly well, and here's why, you know, especially considering like, oh, this you know, we are a global society, so this has a different context, you know, elsewhere and whatnot. Um, and it also just speaks to a lot of the issues around how blackness is valued or devalued in these cultures, you know, and that's what's really underlying a lot of that. And that's a thing that's tough to change a lot of the time because you know, this longstanding, really systemic colorism and racism that exists within these cultures. You know, it you know, that's that's global, unfortunately. So, you know, it goes beyond just one um commercial or whatnot, or like one um, you know, like one person who didn't know the better, but you know, they put on blackface because you know they didn't see an issue with it. Um it's this devaluing of blackness.
SPEAKER_07Um I agree with us. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead. I agree um with the doctor and what sushi was saying. I there was a time I would wanted to go to Korea. And before you know, I travel anywhere, I watch documentaries or I watch, you know, behind the scenes from black people in that country. Because even in the US, we have to be careful when we travel. So if I'm going into a foreign land and I am not, you know, I guess a group that, you know, um a significant group in that particular country, I need to know, you know, what their culture is, um, you know, the pros, the cons, you know, my values in the US or how I was brought up in the US could be very different, you know, in Korea and vice versa. So when I went there, you know, well, excuse me, not when I went there, I was watching a black woman who's living in Korea, a plus size black woman living in Korea, which also has different unpacking as well, because they are naturally very petite people in general. And then also because they are homogeneously 90, like 96 or 97% Korean, you know, black people, I think is of maybe 1% or 2%, and everybody else is of different nationalities all around the world, like foreign exchange students, things like that. So, you know, she was explaining that being black in Korea was very different from being black here. There were certain things that she didn't have to worry about, like getting shot by police or you know, being pulled over. You saying she didn't feel like she had a fear of her life, fear for her life, but people should just get stares, want to touch her hair, you know, compare the skin color. You know, uh every time she went to get makeup, they were like, oh, here's bleaching cream. So they in their mind, they already see, I don't think it's intentional, but because of, I guess, in the like you said, the media, darkness or blackness is dirty or wrong. And let me help you lighten your skin to get better opportunities. Yeah, and you know, it's like that in the Caribbeans as well. It's like that I could attest in Nigeria as well. I think people are starting to get better with it. Um, just because younger people are getting better with it. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_12I said the younger people are getting better with it.
SPEAKER_07Exactly. The younger people are getting better at it because they're really starting to love their themselves, used to be much more appreciative of themselves. But the older generation, I think because you couldn't really get a job per se or have the best opportunities if you were darkened complexion. Like even for me, you know, in my family, you know, it's like have to be careful. I it's not that uh per se, I would say more so if you are not as dark, you're as quote unquote not as threatening, or you have better opportunities, or you see more beautiful, you see more approachable in the workplace, in the Caribbeans, in, you know, I would say Nigeria, so to speak, even when it comes to the actors and actresses in Nollywood, you don't see many dark-skinned Nigerian people in Nollywood for those who know, it's like, so um, I think Nollywood is like Bollywood and Hollywood. Like Bollywood is for India, Nollywood is for Nigeria, Hollywood is for America. So Nollywood, I think, is like the top money-making movie TV entertainment industry in like Africa.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So is it is that right, Succi?
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. So it's like, you know, how the how you see yourself in um these movies in Nollywood, they're all bleached as fuck. You know what I'm saying? Maybe the younger generation, like Succi said, are just more so embracing their skin tone. You know, it's just it's just very strange. It's just very odd because it's not just America, it's not just Asia, it's every part of the world, whereas European-centric beauty standards are kind of spread out everywhere. It's like you can't even get away from it. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_12I just remembered my movie. And it was or my character in the movie, it was uh uh Jake Gillinghall in uh Prince of Persia.
SPEAKER_05Joseph Huh?
SPEAKER_03Joseph said Prince of Persia earlier. Oh, I didn't hear maybe that's why.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, uh, and the thing is I really enjoyed that movie, uh, but I enjoyed the movie because I enjoyed the game. And it was nice to see the parkour tricks and all that other stuff, but like from I mean, literally, every prince in that movie was white. Uh the kids were white.
SPEAKER_03Ooh, not even white. You put the H in there, you said white.
SPEAKER_12Um, and even their uncle, who was supposed to be the most Persian of them all, was tanned. I'm not gonna say black faced, but he was tanned uh to make him look uh Arabian or Persian, sorry, not Arabian, um uh the Persian ethnicity.
SPEAKER_03So it was you know they they tried it so good.
SPEAKER_12Uh yeah, it was bad. Um and even the princess uh or the priestess, she was also tanned to be, you know, of that particular ethnicity. So yeah, it's very, very sad. Anywho, next question. So we've talked about um the different characters who we felt like were whitewashed or that were you know placed into roles, individuals who were placed into roles that obviously should have been played by people of color. But now, what characters or what actors or what roles do you feel like individuals were placed in based off of status or based off a clout that could have been played by a new actor who needed that platform? Um we were talking about this earlier, and I'm gonna take it now before we go into a long tangent on it. And the character is Halle Berry as Storm in the X-Men. Yes. And nobody in this panel is going to say Halle Berry is a bad actress or actress. She has, she is an Academy Award-winning actress, and she has done many, played in and performed in many roles very, very well, excellent at this. But as it pertains to the character of Storm in the X-Men, many people believe that it was more so done because of lack of looking for a character that or an actress who can play that role. And then, two, trying to fill seats in the theater by placing a name who is African American, but placing a name that is high enough where people are like, oh, I know her. I'm gonna go watch it because of her. There's a lot of black people who went to go watch the first X-Men purely because Halle Berry was in the movie. They didn't know nothing about Wolverine, they didn't know nothing about Cyclops and Magneto, they just went because they saw Halle Berry's. Halle Berry. Halle Bear is in the movie. So it's those types of situations that brought up this question. What other roles? And this could be, I mean, this could be people of color, of course, or it could even be white people if you feel as though that's a that's a situation. Uh very rare, but if you feel that's a situation, what characters do you feel, or what actors do you feel, were placed in a role? They may have been the right color or the right ethnicity, but they were placed there purely because of uh clouts or because of their status. And I think I will start with the black McCoy.
SPEAKER_03Oh, let's see. I guess I touched on that earlier when I said Zoe Saldana, but another one that comes to mind, let's see. Did we say Nicolas Cage?
SPEAKER_12Outside of the podcast, yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, Nicolas Cage and um Ghostwriter.
SPEAKER_12Everything.
SPEAKER_03Um I'll say specifically Ghostwriter because go the if I remember correctly, Ghost Rider is Latin American, he's Mexican, or he's he's not he's not black and he's not white. I know that much. Um Latino. Um, and that was just an ex like, and I get that it's it was supposed to be like kind of this action movie situation.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And Nicolas Cage is, you know, at least to some degree known for more action-y roles because the his style of acting fit that genre enough to where it isn't ridiculous when you look at it. Um but throwing him in that role was not only just whitewashing, but it was absolutely a clout chasing moment because, like, oh, people know Nicholas Cage, Nicholas Cage is good for action movies. This is a you know, superhero action flip. Let's go ahead and throw him in there. No, no, no, no, no, no. We we we we didn't need it. Um we I don't I don't know anyone who specifically asked for it. His performance was underwhelming. Um I I would say the decision to put him in that role was extremely short-sighted. Um, and the the movie overall was nothing less than atrocious.
SPEAKER_12So I will also add, it's interesting. I feel like you should have used Nicolas Cage for the first question and Zoe Zaldani for the second question, but I got your point. Um, but you know, I use Zoe Zaldan already, and I was um, but I will say uh stacking on top of Nicolas Cage, Sorcerer's Apprentice. Um there should have been another actor in that role. Um that's all I'm gonna say.
SPEAKER_03You watching that movie, I forgot, so I did not watch that.
SPEAKER_12Oh, I watched it. Um yeah. Watching all these movies.
SPEAKER_09Right.
SPEAKER_12For someone who don't watch movies, you know, you know it came out on FX and it was before the Oceans trilogy, but after I think taken. So I was just kind of sitting there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03It's weird. You don't you say you don't watch movies, and we know, and a lot of people, I was gonna say a couple of people on this now know for a fact that if you don't want to watch something, you'll get up and leave, but you'll sit there and watch this over.
SPEAKER_12I mean, it was actually background noise because I was working at the same time. I was multitasking. Anywho, um Jackson Wrestler.
SPEAKER_09Um personally, the only thing I can think of is Gerard Butler in uh in the gods of Egypt. Or actually, I'll say um I can't remember his name, but you from Prince of Persia just said earlier. Yeah, like he he obviously was just a role at that moment. I think that was a lot of reason why he got the position that he got.
SPEAKER_12So uh Joe T S G.
SPEAKER_03Are you talking? No, he's thinking, ladies and gentlemen, he's thinking.
SPEAKER_10Uh Amil Hirsch, uh, who played Speed Racer.
SPEAKER_09Oh, I forgot about that shit.
SPEAKER_10Oh, that was any Asian actor. I just somebody just be Asian. That's all I cared about, really, and that didn't happen. Um other than that, I don't usually pay attention to actual actors, to be honest. I really don't. Like, uh if they don't if their ethnicity or their or their background just doesn't relate to the character, I'm like, I I'm not gonna watch it.
SPEAKER_03We can throw Alexandra Ship on there because she also played Storm. Alexandra Ship, she played Storm in X-Men Apocalypse.
SPEAKER_10Oh, I didn't watch that. I didn't watch that for I didn't watch that.
SPEAKER_03Yes, they absolutely should have. Absolutely. In the same way that even so I think that also I'm sorry, this is kind of like a sidetrack, but a good example of being really hyper-aware as an actor when it comes to like whitewashing and stuff, I think it was Amandela Stan, Amandela Steinberg. I think she was going, she was going for a role in Black Canada. I think it was actually the role of Shuri, but she recognized, she I remember she kind of actually got blowback from making the statement because people mistook what she said as like, oh, you know, I, you know, I I gave up this role for this like darker skin girl or whatever. Like, no, that's not what she was saying. She was talking about how she pulled out of auditioning for them for the film because she recognized like the what the movie was going for. And as a lighter-skinned black woman, it wasn't really something that she needs to be in because this is about a country, about a place that was never met with colonization. And if you're light-skinned, you clearly were met with some degree of colonization along your genetic line. So it like she was able to say, you know what, this isn't a role that I need to be in, regardless of how good I can do it or not, simply because there's a vision here that I do not fit. And I respect that vision, and I respect what's being you know constructed here, and I respect what's and I respect the history of and the lore behind this actual story that's being told. And I think that's a good uh that's a good example of people higher up or actors higher up or you know, folks in the industry who have the mindset necessary to acknowledge those circumstances.
SPEAKER_07I agree with what the Black McCoy is saying because too many times. That's why I always agree with you, my dear. But it was more so like I think um what the Black McCoy is is definitely saying as well is colorism as well when it comes to acting, being a black actor and colorism, you're much more I I think you're it's easier for you to be casted into a role if you're fair skin. And that's the thing I think I I would say in in the media per se. I don't now I'm seeing a lot more different shades of melanin, but it's like the Gina and Pam effect. That's how I always think about it, you know, from Martin. So if you get a Gina, Gina is most likely going to be in, you know, the roles per se easier than Pam would be. And I think, you know, Amanda Steinberg saw that, like, oh, there's so many different shades of melanin, but we're still all we're also still used to seeing a lighter shaded black person play a back black role. We don't often see the Lapida. That's why Lapida is so classic, because we don't often see a darker toned woman in the media have a strong role, or that's not typecasted as the funny one, or the angry black woman. You see what I'm saying? So, I mean, that's where I got from it. And I'm glad that she gave up that role because I think there's much more to it than, oh, it's Amanda Steinberg, you know, we'll just type like there's there's always levels to it. And I always go, I go back to when I was a kid and I see, you know, commercials. I never see darker tone black women on Cobrancus with a child. Never did. I always saw the Gina effect. So that's what I got from it.
SPEAKER_03You know, you said the Pam Gina effect, and it oddly made me think of the Proud family because even Trudy Proud was like this lighter skinned black woman, and she it was like, it was almost like she was designed with like this kind of more fetishistic like mindset or like kind of vision for like this like great black woman. Not to there aren't any great black women, she didn't have any like polys of all great black women, but like she was a doctor, she was, you know, she was thick, she, you know, she was slymphic, she had these beautiful, luscious lips, and she was fairer skinned, and she, you know, carried herself in a certain way that was you know elegant, and she only really you know got serious when you know the moment called for it as compared to somebody like Sugar Mama, who was darker skinned, older, of course, you know, but seen but portrayed in this really I don't want to say negative way, but there were a lot of like tropes and stereotypes that were like that Sugar Mama was a vessel to that you didn't see Trudy be a vessel to. And I think part of that is because that Trudy was designed as a lighter-skinned black woman, and Sugar Mama was designed as this darker, older, older black woman from a different time.
SPEAKER_07Even look at um uh the main character, Kyler Pratt's character versus um Dejeuner. Yeah, you know, the skin tone again, you know, there's so many things that we just look past over, but it's there. Like, you know, Kyler Pratt's character looked like Trudy, and then Dejeuner was darker toned, ratchet, so to speak, had an attitude, sassy, and it's like the trope that always is associated with skin color. It's always been like that since the 80s. I only I can speak that because I remember boomerang. Yeah, I always go for black movies in the 80s, and I always look at the characters who were the main love interests and the characters who were always pushed to the side because they were undesirable. You know what I'm saying? So um yeah, that's something that uh that I've always noticed. Damn, there was a a thought process that I had before I even before I even popped up on here, and I can't believe I can't remember. But I'll come back to it. But yeah.
SPEAKER_12Uh cosmetic.
SPEAKER_11Oh uh first real quick, I was wanted to uh say that uh who's it? Um Yeah, yeah, just uh the current the current ghostwriter in comics is uh is Latino, but the first one's Johnny Reyes is just a white dude. And that's and that's who uh wasn't he was playing. But uh but yeah, that has been a Nicaraguan ghostwriter and and now uh uh Latino uh I don't know where he's from. But yeah, Johnny Reyes is the current ghostwriter. So yeah, I see what that mix up was. Uh I don't have uh that that that's that's that specific question isn't something I think about all the time, but I think a related thing uh we're not gonna do an episode on, so I'm just gonna bring it up now. Is the uh is the uh like white white savior syndrome where you you have the white race but you but you insert a white person and uh my my examples are uh the the last samurai with Tom Cruise. Oh that is the critical white grownish and and to a very and to a very similar degree uh the the the freaking cripple white dude in Avatar who went and oh yeah showed all the blue natives how to be a real blue native. He was he we he he wasn't even like bringing military skills and shit, he was just being himself and just doing shit that they could have done. It was like, oh, they just don't think outside the box. It was and it was yeah, it was definitely like it was like very um like like very like ethnic films and then and and this bi proxy of putting in this this white cat this white compare thing to compare to. Um it it uh and it and it just it just to lower the like the and like raise the white person and lower everyone else. It's such it's such a weird weird dynamic. And it and it always like bothered me. I didn't like last samurai, but it was like but it was just like, but why is this happening? Like I just couldn't.
SPEAKER_03Like, are there no more Japanese samurai?
SPEAKER_11Uh right. And again, like if it was something about this person's history that he he brought with him that like that helped them excel in that thing, but that's never a plot point. Yeah, it's it's never like I learned this in America or learned this in Europe, and then I brought these skills back here and and and applied them in this different circumstance which made this character propel themselves in the story. No, it's always this, oh, watch me sit here and be amazing and and and and get this ethnic girl and and save their ethnic lives.
SPEAKER_05Oh, see, I remember I remember what I was gonna ask.
SPEAKER_07It was more, it's kind of like a question and answer. So you were saying um how there are times when certain actors are just placed in roles just for clout, just to get people into the box office like Holly Berry.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_07Right. There was something that always I don't know, I want to say bothered me. But so I love seeing, you know, different races, you know, being integrated in movies. But have you ever thought about any characters that were like black character black actors or actresses were put in movies just to get clout, even though it wasn't necessarily a black role? And I I think about Idris Elba, Idris Elba playing the guardian guy in um Thor. And it was for me, I love seeing different, you know, ethnicity, I love seeing black characters doing things that are not like typecast per se. But it was for me, it was odd. And I don't know why. You know, and for me it was a little strange, only because I was like, I don't know. Like I I I feel like they just put Idris Elba just because they needed a black person. You know, it's like this like this is Asgard. People are usually white. So you know, it was just it was kind of like whatever, you know, if it was a white person to have done Idris Elba, I probably wouldn't have been like, I probably wouldn't have thought much of it because it would have been like, all right, whatever. That's you know, as Vikings are, you know, inherently not African or, you know, or Afro descent. So I wouldn't really think much of it per se, as I do with Tilda Switten playing an Asian cup Asian, you know, character because the person was not white, person was Asian, so to speak. I think there's different um ancient ones. I can't remember. I don't know too much about Doctor Strange, but I do know that the character was inherently Asian. But it's there's no issue seeing, you know, different nationalities or ethnicities playing different roles, but for that in particular, I feel like they just needed a black person and they just put Idris Alba in that role. So it just felt, I don't know, out of place.
SPEAKER_12Is Hemdale normally is Hemdale who is Hemdale normally in comics?
SPEAKER_11Uh no, yeah, everyone is everyone in in there is like Norse. Right in the in the comic. But I think uh I'm I'm usually I'm usually fine, uh not usually fine, but I think uh I think when it comes to Marvels specifically, I think I think they're coming from a space where they they see that there's a general lack uh there's a general blowback against this uh all white thing. And I and I think just and I think across the board they want they want some color in there because they know that's what people want. And and so I so I think like it's less like oh we absolutely needed a black person in this specific movie, and it's more we want we want people of color making making these movies, we want people of color in these movies across the board. And so he so he did so he did specifically uh stick out, but you know, but he was also great.
SPEAKER_07No, no, he was he was he was fantastic. I think it's more of like the token black syndrome, per se. That was really, you know, like if you want to make it, you know, diverse, make everybody diverse.
SPEAKER_12Don't have everybody, everybody kind of was, and I was about to piggyback off of what you said and what Kaze said, is now thinking back to Thor, like if if everybody was supposed to be Norse or Viking or you know, based off of that particular um heritage or bloodline, you know, there were uh a part of uh Thor's uh team or squad or group of Vikings. There were Asian men, there were Asian women, there were, you know, black people amongst the people who lived in Asgard. There were every time they went to a, I mean, maybe not the different planets, but specifically in Asgard, there were a variety of different types of warriors who were of different races and ethnicities. So it I guess for me, kind of going back up to what both of you have said, it seems like we asked or asked, sorry, for a movie with diversity, and maybe the first time they decided to give it to us wasn't Thor when you know they didn't want to give us an all-white cast when that would be kind of the first time they should have given us an all-white cast. Correct me if I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, like I mean, I don't know. I didn't maybe I wasn't looking hard. Now I have to rewatch the movie, but I specifically remembered Idris Elba. You see what I'm saying? I didn't see different ethnicities, I didn't see different, you know, I didn't see a whole bunch of Asian people, you know, Latin American people. I saw white and Idris Elba.
SPEAKER_12That's maybe because you were looking for Idris girls.
SPEAKER_07You know, so it's like, what the fuck is this? It's great, but it was just it's just out of place, you know.
SPEAKER_12It's like it sounds like it sounds like kind of what I was saying about Halle Berry and X-Men. Right placed Idris Alba there to fulfill a purpose, and I believe he did. Not saying that you went to the movie to watch Idris, but when you saw the movie, the person who they targeted for you to see and for you to gravitate towards and for you to uh uh pay attention to his performance, because like you said, you don't remember seeing any other ethnicities other than uh Thor, probably Odin, his mother, and Idris Albert. And then maybe any other Avengers who were mixed up in there. But there were other people who were there, but because their target was like, do you remember any of the? I mean, other well, you saw a couple of the X-Men movies, but in other than Holly Berry and maybe Hugh Jackson and maybe Magneto or Professor X, you remember anybody else?
SPEAKER_07You mean as in in in all the other Marvel movies?
SPEAKER_12Other mutants, yes.
SPEAKER_07And X-Men.
SPEAKER_03Um the girlhouse, she was rogue.
SPEAKER_12Uh I was talking about not the X-Men, the other mutants.
SPEAKER_07The other mutants, uh mutants that are non-white or just in general?
SPEAKER_12That are non-X-Men, non-brotherhood, the other mutants.
SPEAKER_10The Sand True nigga. What was his name? Yeah, Sand True. The dude with the from the last movie with the spikes. He's Asian. I don't I just call him Sand True. I just thought because that's what he looks like to me.
SPEAKER_07You mean the guy that was in um the Doctor Strange?
SPEAKER_10No, it was it was the last X-Men. He was one of the um Spike. Spike or something. It was like Spike or something.
SPEAKER_03It wasn't a it wasn't a cool name, it was just Spike.
SPEAKER_10Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, Spike, Spike is his name.
SPEAKER_10Sand True sounds better.
SPEAKER_07Um underwhelming Spike. Yeah, I go with Joe. I like that one. Sand True.
SPEAKER_12Uh but like that's what I'm saying. Like, they placed certain people, it's the same thing about the clout. They placed certain people there to get your attention, regardless of who's in the background. Now, if they had placed somebody, like if they had placed Spike in the position of, say, um, Iceman, you wouldn't have known who he was. But us as blurred, we would have done the research. Like, oh, who is he? What else has he done? Oh, now I'm gonna look for him in any other movie. So it would have given him some level of clout. But instead, they what was Bobby from? I can't remember.
SPEAKER_03Who?
SPEAKER_12Bobby in before that movie?
SPEAKER_03No, but he was one of those generic white boy faces that you saw everywhere. Yeah, I think he might have been at that.
SPEAKER_11He was in Animorphs. Animorphs!
SPEAKER_10That's what yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I've seen his face before.
SPEAKER_03He has a generic enough white boy face to be like to just kind of blend in or whatever. I think he was in the boys too as um Lent Lighter.
SPEAKER_11Um that was hilarious.
SPEAKER_07Oh, um, Iceman?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, he's a twin.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, they have a twin. He's a twin. Yes, he's an he's an identical I thought Iceman was the same guy that was in Killjoys and they're two different people.
SPEAKER_11Uh yeah, yeah, he doesn't have to.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, they put them next to each other. I'm like, oh I thought I don't know if the guy that played lamp lighter, whatever the fuck his name was in the boys, is the same person as Iceman. I think that that's the brother.
SPEAKER_03I don't know if I feel like Kazana are about to look it up.
SPEAKER_10I'm looking it up now, actually. I've looked at it more.
SPEAKER_01But that's like, do y'all know that for the boys, what is it, mother's milk, they downplay his character in the actual show? Then what's in the comic book?
SPEAKER_09Mother's milk is mother's so in the comic book, mother's milk is actually a mutant. The reason why he's uh I'm sorry, not a mutant, but he's a superhuman. The reason why he's called the reason why he's called mother's milk is because he uses the milk of his mother's breast to calm his powers down.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, which is why he's not this damn show.
SPEAKER_12They can't handle public breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't do the actual breastfeeding. They the he walks around with a container, like he drinks.
SPEAKER_12There's nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_09But yeah, it's not it's not as it's not as weird as you think. But uh it's still weird.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like in his story in the show, they would make it seem like his dad just went after the superheroes for no re no reason, but in the comic book, his brother actually died.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's why he's trying to get vengeance on the superheroes. So it wasn't uh, what's his name? What's the main character's name?
SPEAKER_05Butcher.
SPEAKER_01Butcher, it wasn't the one that was necessarily fueling it, it was Mother's Milk.
SPEAKER_09It became Butcher after a while. Now it does become Butcher after a while, but that's a that's a whole nother thing at that point.
SPEAKER_01So uh just like they changed the main antagonist for this season, she was actually a man in the comic book and not a woman. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, the comic book is dramatically different. It's not even like it's not even like, oh, they changed it, they changed a lot. Yeah, they changed a lot. Yeah, they just loosely based, like not they just loosely based a story. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So wait, I have a question with mother's milk. So he's still drinking his mother's milk out of a bottle and he's a grown-ass man. Like, how is the mom still producing breast milk? Like, do they give any backstory?
SPEAKER_01I mean, okay, on a on a genetic basis. Your child, like if you keep pumping, or if your child you just put them directly on the boo, it'll keep flowing until you cut it off completely.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. So for 35 years, my nigga. I mean breastfeeding to it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're helping that type of shit. Like your child is literally off your lap and you still breastfeeding them. And I'm like, whoa, hold up. Now he's a special case.
SPEAKER_09Now he's a special case just because there's there's I forgot if there was a chemical or there's something with that that keeps his powers from like overloading him and killing him. Like he has to do it to live. Right. So yeah, it's it's it's it's it's kinda, it's weird, don't get me wrong, but it's like there's the exact reason why they had that happen.
SPEAKER_03Imagine being like 80 years old and your child is like 50 and you still come from the kidney dog. I think we're gonna go we're gonna we're getting way off topic, but we need to really I'm gonna let you go for another 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_01I didn't say that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I didn't know that the there was a comic number one, and I didn't know that the comic was drastically different from the show because I'm caught up with the show.
SPEAKER_03So you guys like that.
SPEAKER_07Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03The giant penis was also on the comic.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, that was a less awesome show. That was funny. Uh another little thing on the uh on the Heimdall thing is that uh also uh and I'm I don't think I'm wrong. I don't the the mar the MCU version of uh of Asgard, uh they don't they don't mention any of the like Eurocentric countries at all. They just mentioned they just mentioned that they were worshipped, but they're not necessarily they didn't attach themselves to that region or those people or anything. It's all all you know that Asgard is this astral place where these super people are from. And that's all you know about it as far as the MCU goes. And they didn't mention one.
SPEAKER_12Go ahead.
SPEAKER_06No, no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_12No, I was just gonna say they did mention once or twice about um individuals migrating from the different planets or the different realms that they conquered or that they fought against into Asgard. They did mention that once or twice.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, no, they absolutely mentioned it because Hella made sure everybody remembered what how Asgard became Asgard.
SPEAKER_12I I wasn't trying to bring that one up, but thank you.
SPEAKER_10It's very similar to the Inhumans, or at least the movie that's coming. Like how they're doing how they're handling the casting. It's like because in the comics they're not very um specific with the actual races or the ethnicities or the colors. Really in the comics, they're all white. But in the movie, they're gonna take it in a different direction with casting, obviously. They make it more diverse and whatnot.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, yeah, because it's like American space beings and aliens who can.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, it's like what exactly does that look like?
SPEAKER_11What race they played?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_07We're just not used to seeing uh a multicultural cast. That's really what it is. We're just not used to it. So when we see diversity, we just cling on. I think somebody was saying that last like the last episode. We want to kind of like cling on to a character because you know, we feel familiar with them. And I think it's we just don't really see different ethnicities, you know, all across the board. Like I think when it came to the sec, um, I think it was Ragnarok did a better job with casting. From what I remember, it seemed more integrated, like different. I s I think I started seeing more like like Tessa, I forgot what that was. And then I think I did start noticing that a lot more of the cast were diverse, so to speak.
SPEAKER_12That's because it didn't even the majority of the movie didn't even take place on Aniscard.
SPEAKER_07Well, maybe that's why.
SPEAKER_12They had to have other people from other places. Like, I think in the first four, other than Earth, and I think they were in like what what state were they in? Like Idaho or something.
SPEAKER_11Somewhere it's a red state.
SPEAKER_04Somewhere in the Midwest, thank you, Silas.
SPEAKER_12I just went to the Midwest, somewhere in the Midwest, Asgard, and then that one place uh where they had that fight with um a different realm where you know Thor was showing off his strength, and then I believe wherever the uh frost giants are from, I think those are the main places that they showcased in the movie. So there wasn't a lot of huh?
SPEAKER_03Jotunheim, that's where the frost giants are from.
SPEAKER_12Thank you, Jotunheim. Uh uh that's um those are the only places where they showcased in the first movie. But in the second one, you know, Hulk and Thor got jettisoned to a whole nother planet. They were dealing with all different types of different aliens uh on that particular Coliseum planet, or the I don't want to call it the World War, because that's not what it is, but on that particular planet, you know, they were interacting with people all from all over the galaxy.
SPEAKER_11That's a third one, but yeah.
SPEAKER_12Oh, is that the third one? I thought you said Ragnarok.
SPEAKER_11Ragnarok is the third one, which is hilarious. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I'm sorry, I meant I meant Ragnarok, my apologies. Thank you. Um, yes, but yes, that's uh because the second one took place all on Earth, right?
SPEAKER_11That was uh second one uh had Dark Something?
SPEAKER_10Dark World?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, Dark World wasn't also that on the Earth. Uh they were invading, they went to the they was in Defline for a little bit.
SPEAKER_12Okay. But um yes, so uh back to the main topic. What would be um the I don't say the solution, because I think most of us have said actually it's been a plethora of things because one, the solution may be, you know, cast newer people in these, you know, new upcoming roles to give new people an opportunity or a chance, but we've also said that you know we still want diversity, but when we have diversity, we're not really noticing the diversity in the movie because we're trying to we're we're paying attention to the people that we know. So how do you get the best of both worlds? I guess is the best way to ask that question.
SPEAKER_07It I think it's casting. Um, you know, once you start casting people, uh it depend it also depends on where it's placed. Like I wouldn't don't add diversity. Like it make diversity appropriate for I guess the story. Like I wouldn't put like a whole bunch of black people in Edo period Japan. You know what I'm saying? Like it has to make sense. I wouldn't put a whole bunch of white people in a Wakanda. So it's like you have to be appropriate.
SPEAKER_12If they're trying to colonize, I would but go ahead.
SPEAKER_07I mean, like you have to talk about the backs, the the story, so to speak. Like, you know, as in these were warriors from tribal times, white people. Like, no, that's that no, that's not how this goes. You know, the diversity has to make sense for the either the period or the time frame, you know. So it's it's a it's kind of like a it's not a a black and white, so to speak. But I think people have enough common sense to know when shit's appropriate and when shit's not not necessarily the best.
SPEAKER_12I think joke disagree with that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, they don't have common sense.
SPEAKER_12One of the things I've said a couple of times about the MCU is it's not based off first, first of all, they call themselves the Marvel Cinematic Universe for a reason. They're trying to separate themselves and to it to a certain degree from the comic books. They're taking nuances and they're taking references, but they're trying to create this universe that's completely separate, which is why when you know comic book heads or uh individuals are like, Well, that's not accurate, that's not the way that went. And they're like, Well, it's the Marvel cinematic universe. So they don't have to keep defending themselves like this is the MCU. It's not it's not Marvel comics, it's the MCU.
SPEAKER_03Fucking nerves are so masturbatory about their content.
SPEAKER_01It's like Wow, that works. Well, and actually masturbatory. I like that story.
SPEAKER_10Actually, can I just bring up this question real quick? But how do you feel about um how do you feel about Marvel or DC creating characters that take over the mantles of like, you know, heroes that we know and love versus them creating new characters?
SPEAKER_12Creating new comic book characters, you mean?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, like for example, like Miles Morales now being like the new Spider-Man versus Peter Parker. And you like I know there was a huge controversy with that a couple years ago where people were like, okay, well, now Peter Parker's dead, okay. And I think it's more than Peter Parker is dead. Well, yeah, there's it's more than that, but also too, it's it's Alice took over the mantle because at that time there wasn't a comic, it was just that movie that came out.
SPEAKER_07Look at but look at Batman though. Batman is like fucking what 80? You know what I'm saying? So like I think certain people pick certain battles that aren't meant to be picked with. Like, if if they want to go with that, then they can go with like look at all the old ass heroes by now. They should be almost hitting 80-90. They're not gonna be out here fighting, but yeah, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03So it's like Clark and Diane are like the only two who should probably still really be around, and maybe Martian Manhunter, but he's also an alien. Dr. Fates, a helmet.
SPEAKER_10Could you also say then, too, that we or comic book fans only really tend to do this when it comes to their Lily White favorite characters per se? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, because like there really wasn't much of a a controversy when like um we have Miss Marvel now.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_10Yep, yeah, but then again, but you could also argue that she is a completely separate character with a separate title.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, she yeah, she is the Marvel. I mean, she became when she became the new Captain Marvel, but she she very specifically picked picked that up from Homeboy because he died.
SPEAKER_07So I do believe it. Uh unfortunately, it just really does go to race. And then you have generations that were used to Peter Parker being a white boy from what Brooklyn? I can't remember which part of. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, ain't no white people in Brooklyn, so I don't know now they are, but back then I don't know where the hell he came from.
SPEAKER_12There's a few Italians there. Which makes sense why his aunt was Marissa Thomas.
SPEAKER_10Italians are just white black people, that's all that is.
SPEAKER_11They uh they they they killed off Peter in the Ultimate Universe. It wasn't even regular Marvel universe. Yeah, they was like, okay, here's the side story, and where we're where we specifically made it to do to something different. And they was like, we're gonna do this different thing. And they're like, oh no, no. And I mean, and you know, and even even race aside, a lot a lot of people just don't like change, period. They don't, it doesn't even matter what you what you have.
SPEAKER_12What you do give them all the backstory and all the lead up and all the this is why this happened and this is why that happened, but we're gonna do this because all of this stuff happened, still don't like it.
SPEAKER_03Honestly, I would I would even argue that that's part of what it means to be a nerd. Like the the this kind of radical resistance to change to IPs that you've like grown up with. Personally, I'm not that I'm not that person. Like, if there's new change, bring it forth. As long as it's you know, as long as it's told well, as long as it makes sense, as long as it's cool, like it's if it's good, then awesome. I don't really care if it's changing or not. But like, I think that fundamentally, well, let me not say fundamentally, I think that generally speaking, there is a there is a proclivity towards this, like, oh, this will ruin my childhood, or oh, this will fuck this up, or oh, this will, you know, somehow paint whatever, you know, idolization one has of whatever IP they've attached themselves to, or whatever they whatever vision or relationship they have to an IP without accepting anything new or anything that deviates from what that vision is. And I think that's part of one of the reasons people hate it stuff like Teen Titans go, where some people don't like Harley Kim, or some people don't like a lot of these different variants of, well, those are two particular DC shows because we're the first two that came to mind. But like people don't like some of these things because they deviate or they they um and possibly in some way, shape, or form, undermine what is it they believe is already good, but in actuality it's not ruining anything in some capacities, it's extending or expounding. And and it's almost and it's weird that that happens because like no one likes to take up the take the liberty of expounding upon their own imagination with the world that's already given to them. Like if like say for example, if Teen Titans Go is canon DC, you know, canon DC, whatever, it's just a different earth. D DC has multiple earths, Marvel has multiple universes. If there's one you prefer over the other, then fine. But let's not say that you know whatever is being put out currently is somehow tarnishing the legacy that came before it, but it's really just expounding upon it in a way.
SPEAKER_13You know what's interesting where that happens so much across so many different nerd fandoms, where it's video games, comics, lots of different things. And I feel like a part of what drives some of that is this sense of ownership that people have when it comes to, hey, you know, I've been a fan for so long, so this is, you know, my you know, my culture or my fandom. And you know, a lot of times they don't like people being expanded to groups that are outside what they consider the original fans. You know, this idea that, oh, well, I don't like this being expanded to this group, or you know, like 15 times go being really to reach kind of a newer audience. Like those people don't like the idea of that, like, oh, well, those are real fans anyway. So there is that underlying mentality that really drives a lot of that, I think, resistance to change, this sense of ownership, and in some ways this sense of, oh, well, you know, if real exclusion in a lot of ways. This idea that if you weren't a fan for X, Y, Z years, then you're not a real fan. And so you shouldn't get to dictate, you know, who or how these things are being designed or how these things are being created. Even though it's not even about another group dictating how something is created, it's about just it expanding to a newer and growing audience, and many times a younger audience, you know.
SPEAKER_03So and the interesting part about that, Doctor, is like they don't have any ownership over it. It's not yours. You didn't create someone else's action. It's like that that that that entitlement is like how are you entitled to a story that you aren't writing?
SPEAKER_13You know, and that's the magic word, entitlement. That's what that really is at its core. You're one of the things that you're gonna do sponsored by the letter E.
SPEAKER_09When people say that or talk about that change has happened, like if Teen Titan Go is a perfect example of how we use that. When Teen Titans Go came out, it looked like they had abandoned the the what Teen Titans originally was altogether. So it was a thing of a lot of the fans of the original Teen Titans were like, Well, you're just gonna throw us to the curb all the way. So it was like, and that's a lot of times, it's not so much entitlement, it's a thing of you, it's almost like you were forgetting, like when the artist just changes up their style and says, fuck how they need to do it all together. And people take offense to that because it's like when you're gonna abandon the people that got you to the point where you can afford to do this.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_09So it was like, so and that's that's why a lot of times, even with comic books, I know I don't always agree with uh with the backlash of some of the changes you get, like when Ironheart came out, everybody lost their complete other shit. Oh yeah, like it's like exactly. But in one way, I can kind of look at it as I kind of understand it because the people who got Tony Stark the way he was wasn't necessarily us. So I understand why they got angry about it. But what even angered me more was outside of the fact that they created Ironheart, does anybody remember that static shock started somewhere that wasn't DC?
SPEAKER_03Like there were places like static in from a different universe into either they either incorporated it or they somehow like just made it its own. But it like something they had to write something to happen for the universes to actually merge for static to be a DC because it was never originally a DC property.
SPEAKER_09No, no, what no, what ended up happening, they didn't they didn't write it so the universes converged. They literally just inserted it in T-Tites and just said, oh, he's been over in this side city for such and such a time.
SPEAKER_05Like they kicked out icon.
SPEAKER_09Icon's gone altogether. Like it's just like all the heroes that were involved in icon, with the exception of the black superman himself, that was icon was gone. Um, blue Marvel is another example in terms of uh in terms of Marvel comics. They they gave him more of a story, but that's because they made Captain Marvel white.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_09And then named the original Captain Marvel Ion and literally made her a light-skinned French chick. Like that was like she went from being a darker skinned black woman to a light-skinned French chick that looks like looks like Hollyberry with a perm and blonde hair. So it was so it was those changes. I can't always, if we can act the same way towards those changes, especially for like I can understand it when it's not getting the popularity it necessarily deserves, and that's why they made those changes to get it that popularity. Like Captain Marvel was changed the way she was, was because she went from white, what was it, it was white dude to black woman who had the power of the universe, and then saw that popularity wasn't continuing, and they tried to force it again, saw that wasn't continued, so then they took the powers from her, gave it to another white dude, then moved it over to who we now know as Captain Marvel, who they decided to make more and more butch as they tried to get another uh um demographic underneath their belt because all the other times that they tried it were failing. I understand those changes. I don't agree with them, but I understand it. But with Teen Titans, Teen Titans had a folly. So when Teen Titans did change over, they literally abandoned years, and I mean years, of fans, decades even of fans, even though the comic books didn't really do any of those changes. So you abandoned a comic book fans, you abandoned an old cartoon fans, and then you started, then you went to go ahead and shit on them on top of that in some of the future uh cartoons of Teen Titans Go. So we're that that changes things with that.
SPEAKER_03The fact that Teen Titans Go shits on like the original Teen Titan fandom so much is one of my favorite things about them. Um I love when I love when because I think that's one of the things that makes Teen Titans Go so great. Not that the explicitly will shit on the old fans, but they will I love when I love when cartoons are self-aware. I think that's that's one of the things we loved about Animaniacs, is why we love so many other things that we grew up loving. And it's interesting, and just because the the IP of Teen Titans that we know or that we grew up with has changed, and that has now become what it is for you know a different generation or even the same generation. If you're in if you're open enough to accept what it is, and you know, you know, kind of go along, be alone for the ride. If not, then you know what that's your own stagnation that you can latch on to. However, there's still you know space for that. But what I wanted to say is what everything that you just said made me think about something that I completely forgot about, and that was raising Dion. Um I haven't watched that. So in the so raising Dion was a concept that came up years ago before the Netflix show actually came out because I remember seeing the trailer for it, because it was supposed to be like a web series or like a movie or something. And in the trailer for it, there was like a you know, it it was the same story, you know, single mom raising a black son who has superpowers, and but she was a dark-skinned black woman. Like she was a dark-skinned black woman in the original trailer that was made for the IP. But by the time it got to the Netflix show, taking Netflix taking it up and turning it into a show, they had changed it into a d uh a lighter-skinned black woman. And a lot of people had a problem with that because they found that it really undermined the original vision for the show by replacing this darker-skinned black woman with this lighter-skinned black woman with like, you know, kinky curly hair and so on and so forth. And I was thinking about it because I'm like, I forgot, no, you mentioned uh Valzad, because you mentioned the black man, Valzad. And it made me think of that kind of change because I was thinking about this transition from like um between like lighter and darker characters, and it made me think about that because I know Sushi asked the question earlier, and that was an IP that slipped my mind entirely, partly because I didn't finish the show. Um it didn't hold on to me that long. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07That reminds me of Aunt Viv, you know, the classic change of Aunt Viv, how she went from the darker skin Aunt Viv to the lighter skin Aunt Viv. Just like poof, and I'm like, what the fuck happened to Aunt Viv?
SPEAKER_01Because like the original Aunt Viv got that wasn't that wasn't a colorism thing. That was there was tension. He kicked her off the show and bought the new Aunt Viv on.
SPEAKER_09And it wasn't just that Will Smith, because then she actually had uh uh issues with quite a bit of cast members at one point, so she had become a running problem, and that's and that's why they ended up moving her off. The fact that the next one was light skinned, it was just it just so happened to work out that way, I think.
SPEAKER_03I just talking about like it's not so much that you were that you know they switched the actresses, you know, that but they didn't even try to get anyone who looks like exactly it wasn't yeah, it's it's like there's yeah, there's so many, like if you want to switch the actress, you know, because an actress was giving problems, fine, whatever.
SPEAKER_07Then find someone that's damn near close to the actress you switched to. Like, it's not that hard, my nigga. Like, there's plenty of black people out there of different shades of melanin, you know, but again, the there's that time period, that 80s, 90s boomerang time period, Gina Pam time period of the lighter skin black woman just does better in media.
SPEAKER_01And that's that falls into a lot of things. I wouldn't, yeah, but I'm not gonna do that. Because even with um, you know, sororities and certain fraternities, you know, the stigmatism that I'm not gonna call no names that follow down the case.
SPEAKER_12I know what you mean. You know, thank you.
SPEAKER_01I mean, over the decades it has changed, but I mean that stigmatism is still there if you look at you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_09Yes, yes, and around that time I also asked the question of I wonder sometimes about that particular situation because they originally got a darker skinned woman in that role in the first place. So was it the thing of they didn't try or that they just they needed somebody quick and they had nobody in mind?
SPEAKER_05They didn't try.
SPEAKER_09They didn't try.
SPEAKER_03I don't think they tried hard enough.
SPEAKER_09Like I don't know. I might even think about that. It was that they might not have tried hard enough. I wonder if it was the thing of because I I can't remember if this the person that ended up playing off there after the original was the person that got beat out and it just so happened it was like, all right, we already had this person under our bill, let's call her up and get her in the roll. And they didn't try.
SPEAKER_01Well, you don't know unless you watch the reunion special and CMX.
SPEAKER_12Well the uh nice club.
SPEAKER_07They're not even though though, um even the personality was different. So like it was a different thing.
SPEAKER_05They didn't try.
SPEAKER_01They didn't try with shit. I think like they went uh with the same body type.
SPEAKER_12When people are applying, when people are vying for an acting position, they have to audition. And it's not, I'm sure, for an African-American uh uh sitcom that was supposed to be starring the rapper Will Smith at the time. I'm sure they had countless women who were applying to be Aunt Bib at the beginning. And the current well, the first Aunt Bib was the one that secured the role. So normally when you're having it's like having an understudy, you have several people who you have on a list who you plan on replacing her with if anything was to go wrong. Same thing. Ashley, Hillary, Carlton, everybody. The only person who really was the most secure was Will Smith because the show was built around him. So at the end of the day, if you really were trying to fit or typecast a specific woman, if that was the case, if you were trying to uh typecast a specific type of woman, then you would have gone back to your list of women who applied and reached out to all of them for secondary interviews. Or if you were just trying to put a black woman in the role with a name, then you would have just found the first black woman that you already knew you had research resources with who needed a position or a role or a job and put her in the role. Because that's what I've happened.
SPEAKER_09But that's what I'm saying. I wonder, like I said, the real reason why they just put it in that position wasn't so much looking for a lighter skinned person, but it was just we had this person just in case we should happen.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_09And then they were like, oh yeah, and it just saved, it just saved a bunch of time and money. And um that's but I do understand, I understand where you're coming from. That's just my question. That that's my dual duality of thought pretty much in that situation.
SPEAKER_07But I agree with you though. I do agree with you're saying, as of like convenience, yeah, but when convenience changes the character, that's when I think about it. And that's really what I would be a hundred percent with you if she had the same personality, but she didn't. She was completely different.
SPEAKER_12That's if NBC cared and they didn't, just like ABC didn't care when they switched uh uh Harriet Winslow. They just needed to put somebody in the role, they didn't care who it was, they found the first black actress actress that fit the AIDS group and said she's black, she looks like she could be somebody's mama, throw her in there. They didn't care about trying to match the role to the person.
SPEAKER_08We're talking about more generalization.
SPEAKER_12Right. Yeah. But I actually wanted to, I mean, I don't want to go back, but I did want to comment on the Teen Titans thing because I was quiet during that entire thing because I wanted to see where that conversation was gonna go. Um my only insert into it is uh kind of basing it off of what the black boy uh and Shaffer Braces said. Uh talking about the individuals who can't accept change. So when individual comic book comic book fans, anime fans, people who watch cartoons, video games, all that stuff, they have a certain expectation when they're presented something. When they're given something, they if they enjoy it, they begin to gravitate towards it in a way where it becomes second nature. I don't know if that's the best way of saying it, but it becomes something that they're accustomed to, I think is a better way of saying it. And when they become accustomed to something, there's a certain expectation every single week when something shows up. Now, I don't feel like Teen Titans is a I think it's a good Team Titans Go is an example, a good example in terms of explaining how people felt like it shouldn't have come on uh in lieu of Teen Titans, but I don't feel like they it it was the next step of Teen Titans. One, they said on multiple occasions on both on Teen Titans Go that it's a whole nother dimension, a whole nother universe, sorry. And Teen Titans was canceled, and then Young Young Justice came out, then Young Justice was canceled, and then Teen Titans Go came out. So going back to what the what Champlain Grace had said was you had decades of fans who had become invested and accustomed to what Teen Titans was presenting. And not saying that the characters aren't the same, uh, let me not say that, not saying that the character models, no, not that either. Um not saying the characters' names are not the same, but the the theme of the show, the of course the art style of the show, the concept of the show. I think I remember when Teen Times Go first came out, and I was talking to Kaze about it, and I said they are referencing and almost reiterating certain episodes from the original Teen Titans in Teen Times Go. I was like, why are you doing this? And then a bunch of people complained. I didn't do it, but a bunch of people complained. And then, like the Black Records said, they kind of broke that fourth wall and they said, Oh, we realize what we're doing. And I would, I think the first time they did that was a Game Freak episode where he was like, Yeah, you're not the real Teen Titans, these are the real Teen Titans. And he showed clips of the original Teen Titans, which yes, I agree. That's why I was starting to feel uh uh more akin to watching Teen Titans go because they showed that being aware, that uh self-awareness. But my issue with it, as a person who I have no problem with change, and but I do I do dislike when individuals change, alter things that I am accustomed to. So referring to Teen Titans, if they had taken Team Titans and said we are rebooting it, and it was a completely different story, and the story was terrible, I would have had some type of issue with that. But when Teen Titans go came out, I was 100% in the mindset of it's not for me, it's for a younger crowd. The art style is for a young crowd, the concept, the jokes, the I mean, how many times do you have to talk about farting and butt jokes in an episode? It ain't for me because my nephew laughs at that stuff all the time. My godson probably laughs at that stuff.
SPEAKER_10So it's not that's the point.
SPEAKER_12There it's not targeted towards us. So I agree that those individuals who missed Teen Titans and miss Young Justice at the time were upset and for lack of better words, butthurt about the fact that Team Titans Go came out. But I think the the the part that they missed was the show was never for them. It was not for, it was not to quell their sensibilities. They didn't say, oh, we're rebooting Team Titans. They said, We want to give these voice actors that voiced all these characters in this entire show that people loved a job. So they took Cyborg, they took uh uh Robin, they took Beast Boy, they took uh Starfighter, they took Raven and said, Hey, we want to give you our job voicing the actors in Tea Titans Go. But it's going to be targeted towards this new generation of kids who are watching it because the show's still going on. That was like what almost six or seven years ago?
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_12So people are still watching it. I I don't I don't remember how long Teen Titans was originally on the air, but I'm not going into that.
SPEAKER_03We had like three seasons?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, three seasons. I'm trying to think about how many years. Because the thing is, they're not always.
SPEAKER_09It's been a little bit uh more than a decade now.
SPEAKER_11But it was like 2013.
SPEAKER_122013. So the issue wasn't the issue for me, and this that's why I go back to the whole change thing. The issue for me wasn't the fact that they huh?
SPEAKER_03I'm sorry for interrupting you. Teen Titans had five seasons.
SPEAKER_12Five seasons, thank you. Um the issue wasn't for me wasn't that the show was canceled. The issue for me was the show was canceled and then they pulled it off the air. Like at first it was on Cartoon Network and they just ran reruns. Then they took it off Cartoon Network, moved it to Boomerang. Then they took it off of Boomerang and moved it to Cartoon Network 2. Then they took it off air altogether. You could only find it either on the internet or on certain like third-party channels, like it was on WB for a period of time. So it wasn't the fact that they canceled it, it was because they removed it. And they were they it in in that sense, it seemed like they replaced it with Teen Titans Go. And that's why I believe a lot of people, well, the surface level people, not the people who are just you know bitching them on for no reason, why they got so upset is because, well, it's there's no reason to go right. It's like I was watching Teen Titans. Why did you took it off completely? Like I had to record the entire season on my DVR before it all disappeared. Same thing with Young Justice. I didn't know where I was gonna go to watch it. Were you about to say black before?
SPEAKER_03So I was gonna answer a question that you had. It actually ran from it, it was five seasons for three years from 2003 to 2006. And also, if you still if you still need to jack off and watch Teen Titan, it's on HBO Max.
SPEAKER_01It should be only to give us a plug.
SPEAKER_09To that thought fossil, there was another thing that Black Before he said that I would like to point out was um do I do I appreciate how they joke on the old Teen Titan series? Yes, I actually do find, I think the writers are very, very intelligent. But to this extent that you said like Animaniacs, the thing about animals people love so much is that animaniacs was a new property, yeah. It was completely new. So they didn't even have any expectations for that. That was tied to nothing outside of Looney Two. Looney Tutes itself was crazy. So it was they were able to have that freedom without anybody complaining about it, and that's why it was so low.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Um, where Teen Titans was a recreation, it seemed like to a lot of people. And that was because Teen Titans go, I'm sorry, and that was because you had nowhere to go find, like you said, you had nowhere to go watch Teen Titans, you had nowhere to go watch Young Justice. All of these shows that were in a way, I guess you could say, competing to some extent. To some people, were taken off the air as if to say we don't want any competition for this.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_09This is we're we're abandoning the the fans of old and we're going for newer, younger fans, which is understandable. I mean, like I said, you gotta get your money.
SPEAKER_05Makes sense.
SPEAKER_09But it's it's kind of like because you're gonna see this again when the new uh when the new um Thundercats comes out.
SPEAKER_11Yep.
SPEAKER_09You're gonna see people lose this.
SPEAKER_11It's out and people hate it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I I dealt with the first rerun of Thundercats, it was like, okay.
SPEAKER_12Same thing with Thundercats. I was skeptical. I was like, uh-uh, you ain't no.
SPEAKER_01I'm on the old Thundercats because that's what my mom watched. So then the reruns came out and even I tried to get her to watch it.
SPEAKER_03I was excited for Thundercats 2011 because I didn't like the original one, but the animation and the uh the animation in the trick. Like they're gonna be able to do that. I didn't even know what happened.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it was and that's exactly why it's like it's like when you when they do reruns like this, to some extent, I kind of understand those fans again. The uproar, like when uh the new, when the new, I guess the new subjects came out and everybody hates it. I kind of understand. You hate it off, a lot of us hated it off the art style alone. Before we even got, I still didn't I didn't even know it came out. I haven't even tried to watch it.
SPEAKER_12I already said it might be not being.
SPEAKER_01That art style alone. Yes, that's like I saw that they're about to redo um Rugrats and Courage the Cowardly Dog. The art style for Rugrats is totally horrible. Um Courage might be okay, but Rugrats, listen.
SPEAKER_12Unless courage is dark and twisted, like it's supposed to be, and you're gonna be like, the way the art style is, I'm almost 100% sure it's totally twisted.
SPEAKER_01But I'm I'm almost 100% sure it's not gonna be twisted.
SPEAKER_12That's what I'm saying. It's like, okay, so courage is a little bit different, in my opinion, because it's like the way off the rails, I'm just making sure everyone acknowledges that right now. Oh no, I 100% no. I'm gonna turn it back in a second. That's what my plan was. Um I was gonna reference Sayone's point uh several episodes ago when she talked about, and you know, the Black Before mentions this is mentions this all the time, is or rather references uh Sayone all the time about the color scheme and the artistic value inside of the shows, the anime, and the things that she watches, and how the colors that are used, the shading that is used, the art style that is used gives a certain it it lends itself to enhancing the storyline even more based off of how it's drawn. And we talked about courage in a previous episode, how how dark the tones of the colors were, in contrast to how light courage was, and how the different uh I mean, granted, they threw some CGI in there, like uh uh what's his name? Uh uh King Ramsey's. I was like, y'all didn't have to do that. He could have he could have just been but the thing is the contrasts, it made him look even more grotesque, even more fearful, scary in in the show with the art style that it already had. So by changing that, you're changing what courage the cowardly dog was. So at this point, you might as just you know make him, you know, I don't know, a happy-go-lucky dog and not give him any of the dark, dark, twisted storyline that he had before. Now, going back to what we I mean, I don't want to say we were going off the rails because we we were talking about the replacement of certain people in Hollywood and colorism specifically, but when you're thinking about things that matter to individuals about their characters, about the shows that they're particularly on, and how you're replacing it with something that is not necessarily whitewashing in terms of who the character is or who the actor is, but more so changing it for a different audience or for a different group for financial reasons, that's partly why they do whitewashing. Uh, it's actually one of the larger reasons. They change or switch out the certain characters or the certain voice actors because they know these people are money. They have uh pedigree, they have clout. We know if we put their name on this show or we put their name on the marquee for this movie, or we uh uh we show them in the commercial voicing the character from the game, people are gonna buy into it, regardless. And that's why they did a lot of those things for the cartoons that we used to watch. When they reboot it, it's the name that they're going for. They're saying, okay, and we did a reboots episode before, or remakes episode before, and when they remade these cartoons, they remade them because the name they knew before sold or people watched it. Personally, my my opinion on the 2011 reboots of Thundercats and when uh Teen Times, it didn't go to Young Justice, but when Young Justice came out, my feeling on that was the wrong demographic attached to it. And I feel like when they saw that it was our age group still watching those shows, they said, nope, flush it again. That's how I feel. Because when they were looking at the demographics of people who are watching it, it was like we were watching Young Justice, we were watching Thundercats when it was coming out, we were watching uh the CGI Green Lantern show, we were watching um, there's like two other shows that came out around that time. And all five of them within six months all got canceled again. They didn't even make it to like episode 10 or 12. And then they said, let's, you know, let's go back to the drawing board. And that's a couple years later, is when Steven Universe came out. When uh uh uh oh, what's the name of that one? Uh Adventure Time came out. All those different cartoons came out shortly after that, and they were marketing, thank you. Uh they were marketing to a younger generation because they were like, okay, this is this art style can't possibly attract these people.
SPEAKER_10Now blame Foster for that, actually.
SPEAKER_12That's true, I will say that. I will say eventually we actually Powerpuff Girls a little bit too. I don't like Powerpuff Girls. I don't like Powerpuff Girls.
SPEAKER_10Well, I'm no I'm saying if you look at the art style of Powerpuff Girls, it's very similar to like what early Foster episodes look like.
SPEAKER_12That's true, but then they altered it.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Well, that's just like that's just like Thundercast is very similar to that, and I kind of understand why they did it. Because they looked at what how much popularity OKKO got, and then we can do this with Thundercast. This is where we can get our money at. And realizing no, you can't. Like you're not looking at Thundercats and thinking OKKO. And if you're doing that, you're doing something like that. Is that a good show? I watched like OKKO actually wasn't bad. Okay, that's one of the swords.
SPEAKER_12No, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_09That's one with the kid that that's one of the superheroes.
SPEAKER_12That's what I'm thinking of. Okay.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah. And uh OKKO was the one with the dude that he was like, um, yeah, they had this one white girl who was drawn incredibly thick for no reason. Yeah. Like yeah, it was yeah, it was it was that, yeah, that show. And it wasn't that show. It actually had some really good story to it. Um, the jokes were hit and miss mostly, but that's a lot of shows nowadays. Yeah. But it was it was very good. It was good character development and stuff like that. That's why I think they thought that would work for Thundercats when a lot of Thundercats is built in two things. One, the fact that the story is kind of dark, you know, really dark action. And two, the art style is more of an adult nature.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_09And you took away the art style. I have no clue about the story, but you took away the art style, and that was off-rip, it was like, nope. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12But want to cycle back, final question, everyone. Uh, we talked about um what well I mentioned, or I asked the question, what can we do to fix um whitewashing or colorism? And I believe Sayone answered it the best way she could, which is you know, casting, um, bringing awareness to it. And, you know, one of the things I said before is about the fact that, you know, certain movies did do that. They, you know, looked for a diverse cast and or they looked for a younger cast. But in certain cases, that did not work. So I want to ask what are those movies where you feel like they listen to the concept of diversity in terms of POCs, they listen to the concept of diversity as it pertains to age groups and demographics, and which movies or TV shows or yeah, movies and TV shows do you feel like that did not work? And I'll start with shampoo braces.
SPEAKER_01Hold on, I'll give Mark a second because we were looking at Thundercats. He didn't he just saw a commercial with a new one.
SPEAKER_09Holy shit, dude, but oh man.
SPEAKER_12You want to be sponsored by HBO, but you don't want carton network anywhere near as well just.
SPEAKER_01I mean, they look like little gremlins.
SPEAKER_10It's more like flapjack meets.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it is god awful. But go ahead, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_10Flapjack did it better, honestly. Because Mark got very distracted.
SPEAKER_03I kinda I do want to kind of circle back to the initial question that you asked about like what can be done to kind of alleviate this, and I think that casting is just one side of it. Um, I think that it also so I think that this is one of those well, fundamentally, I think that a lot of things need to happen on multiple fronts in order for there to be some sort of radical change. Like it can't just happen in these kind of like more linear aspects. Casting is absolutely a place where that needs to happen. Like we need casting directors who are intentional, we need casting directors who are aware, we need casting directors who have a certain level of integrity when it comes to the projects that they're working on. And we also need creators who have who feel more empowered or creators, producers, and executive producers who are more invested in the process of creating a better product rather than trying to put all the shiny bells and whistles on it and getting a mediocre product. Um I think we also need a participation from us as fans and the audience in order to demand that level of integrity as well and not continue to be subject to that carrot on a stick in this very rudimentary and simplistic way because we as fans and we as people are better than that, and we have a stronger sense of we have a stronger, we have a stronger sense of relationship to what it means to have a good story versus what it means to have a mediocre story with a mediocre or even shitty story with a big name on it. It's like, oh, it's like someone buying a new Tesla that actually functions like a 19 like 61 Camry or some shit like that. Like you don't want to throw your dollars at something just because it looks cute and functions shitty. You want to throw your dollars at something because it has it has depth, it has integrity, it has uh vision, it has um it has nuance, it has uh and it has a stronger like psychoanalytic relationship with the world that you actually live in that is transposed onto the screen, whether it be bigger silver, silver screen or you know, television screen or whatever, um, that allows us to latch on to it in the first place. So it's gonna take work from everyone, from directors, from casting agents, from fans, from producers, um, from content creators themselves being empowered to say no when these things have a tendency to come up. Like if someone wants to take something that I've written and take turn it into some turn it into like a movie or a series, then I need to make sure that I take the ownership that I can to make sure that my vision and my story get put onto screen in the best and most authentic way possible. So it's a lot that needs to happen. And I'm not saying that it's easy, I'm not saying that can happen all Overnight, but I'm also saying that there's a sense of responsibility that needs to be taken up by everyone in a number of different ways.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think some of that is happening. Like, um, for instance, the show Bray's Anatomy, like Debbie Allen is actually behind the camera, and one of her main focuses was to bring not just Dr. But behind the screen as well. Like a lot of different um uh characters have actually directed episodes. She's bringing in more African-American um directors and producers and things like that. So she is trying to make that change. I know she is. Um, and then you have things like the Band story.
SPEAKER_03Ever since the Different World. And I mean, that's always been her MO though, especially like watching what happened with The Different World and all the people, all like the black actors and stuff that you saw coming in and out of that show and where they have gone, where the careers have gone since then. Like I we fully expect that from Debbie Allen. Like she she's one of them OGs that's been doing that shit since you know, since the beginning, along with Tim Reed. And it's it that that is we need more of that. I absolutely agree with you. Like the fact that she's still doing it is amazing, but I also need more people to be able to take take that up as well. I actually know that like a lot of actors have been moving beyond acting because they don't have the agency and the power that they want to to make these, make those same kinds of changes that Debbie Allen has been doing for a while when it comes to um creating a vision that is you know powerful, that's you know, um authentic and that holds a candle to the people that we need to see on screen that we haven't that we haven't gotten the opportunity to see in a really long time.
SPEAKER_01But I think that's the other thing behind it. Like a lot of a lot of the actors or even producers, like if it's a fear thing. So if I go ahead and go with my my judgment of what I want to do for my show, my movie, or whatever, then it's a thing of will I be able to pay the money back or will I get blackballed in Hollywood? You know, like so it I think it's a lot of pressure on them to kind of twist themselves to go a different route because of if I do this correctly, then maybe on the next movie I can go with my own intuitions because now I've proved myself in order to go with you know all black past doing whatever movie or whatever TV show. So I think part of it is also fear and hesitation, especially in Hollywood, because you can get blackballed for like the slightest thing. Like you sneeze wrong.
SPEAKER_03I think that's and I think that um that's just a a larger issue of what it means to be an industry in general, regardless. No, that I don't think it really matters what the industry is, honestly. Um worrying about being blackballed or worrying, worrying about not, you know, having the same power that you had before because you decide to be the one to choose to have some degree of integrity to stand up against the powers that be that you know will try and sway you to do otherwise is just a cost that comes with doing well, it is uh a more likely cost that comes with doing what's necessary in order to get where you need to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but then you gotta make sure that person is willing to be able to bounce back from that cause. And that causes the fans to be able to rally behind that person, whereas sometimes that doesn't happen. Like, for instance, Johnny Depp and his whole situation, his fans are actually rallying behind him, which is which I think is good because he's an incredible actor. If you're gonna spread blame, we're splitting on both sides, not just one. Um, so you also have to have the fans back that person as well, so that if that if they fall flat on their face or Hollywood decides to blackball them, the fans will be able to pick them up even if they're just doing stuff straight to DVD or straight to TV or Netflix or Hulu or whatever.
SPEAKER_03I totally agree.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think now's the perfect time for stuff like that to happen because fans have you saw fans bullied a whole three. It's a redesign.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, that was amazing.
SPEAKER_07Um, that it it it is more than casting that needs to be involved. Um, with casting is just like, I guess, just one group of what needs to happen when you have inclusion and diversity. It's all the parts that come down to the casting. Like you need uh a committee, you know, a diverse committee. Let's say if you're doing um something that's about culture, you need somebody from that culture to tell you how it goes or from the ethnic background to give you insight. If you're trying to do a movie about living in urban Baltimore with the all age and caste, with no insight, it's not gonna work. So you have to have somebody that knows how, you know, knows the the the inner makings of the city, how people are, you know, the attitudes about it, know how to really live in that moment and get insight because it's like I can say, oh, I'm gonna play a cowgirl. I don't know a damn thing about farming, you know what I'm saying? Or I don't know anything about being a cowgirl in Texas. So somebody would have to educate me who is a real cowgirl per se to give me insight. So I know what the fuck I'm supposed to do. I know how to tap into that character. So, you know, when it comes to casting, you can cast anybody, but it's like, who are you casting? How are you going about it? How are they being educated on what they are, you know, being, you know, being asked to do as well? So like casting is just the end product, but there's all these interconnections that need to happen before you even look for certain actors or actresses to be a part of the production.
SPEAKER_13Anybody definitely speak to the relevance of you know really having representation at the highest levels with the decision makers and whatnot, you know, because that's where you can really start to get like intentional choices in casting beyond just not just empty tokenism, but in actual choices based on a respect and an understanding of the culture you're trying to represent on the big screen. I think for people where like or for you know, examples where diversity has been done really well, I mean, that started at the top. You know, you have to have people in those spaces who are willing to, you know, not only cast those actors, but to also create, you know, really basically uh display those roles with intent and with understanding and with respect and with a cognizant of the cognizance of the culture that they're representing. So yeah.
SPEAKER_10It's also important for the actors and actresses to really take the time to just research whatever character they're playing.
SPEAKER_05Right, right. That makes the actor for real.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I mean, I think, for example, like Olivia Munn, I never really thought she was a great actress prior to apocalypse, but her taking the time to actually well, one, she already had prior knowledge of Silock, but also taking the time to say, hey, I think my outfit should look like this, and talking to the designers and designing the costume and actually taking the time to research the character so she could actually embody and play a better Silock overall helped definitely. The movie still sucked, but Silock was great.
SPEAKER_07That reminds me of uh Chadwick Bozeman. I didn't know that he was not telling you Chadwick Boseman. Chad Chadwick, yeah. Like I I thought he was African. Like I didn't know, like when he was talking, I'm like, is he is he from the US? Like I had no idea. Like I didn't, of course, you know, that accent, I knew that it wasn't like a uh an African accent from an actual you know country in Africa, but I didn't know. So that for me, he embodied it so well in my mind. I'm thinking maybe he's from like, I don't know, like, you know, Ghana or you know, Senegal or somewhere. I I didn't know that he was like, hey, y'all was good. I'm like, what the fuck? I was so shocked. And you know, but that plays that that basically tells you how wonderful of an actor he was because he really embodied the actor. He he studied, you know, the culture of Wakanda. He made me think that, you know, Wakanda was more real than Zamunda. I was like, oh shit, I want to go to Wakanda, you know what I'm saying? But and like he he really made me feel like this was on the map. And um he studied it, he invited it, he lived it. Um, and you know, that's why no one could ever replace him because he was the Black Panther. You know what I'm saying? That is that that he branded himself into that. And so, you know, with research and commitment, it it goes a long way and it's really appreciated with you know all the people that go to the movies and see this because they really do feel represented, even when the place is not even a real country, you know what I'm saying? So that does speak volumes now.
SPEAKER_10Killmonger, I'm happy he's dead.
SPEAKER_11Oh Lord. Yeah, he was that's right. And the the dreads.
SPEAKER_10Oh, Jesus.
SPEAKER_12I'm not going to potentially colors and and entertainment.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I think uh I think I think we're getting there like slowly but surely. I think a big part is the was the representation that's been happening like throughout our lives, and you know, and it started and it was necessary to have like the tokenism because we just had to get on screen and and be seen. And and then you know, and we've had the time to uh you know kind of you know evolve and get in and get those like leading spots. And you know, and now we're getting to the point where we can you know, we like that you can have the lead character, and you know, someone no one's gonna think twice about it. And you know, and and the pe you know, people like grown up now are seeing that and and that's their new normal. So and cause really cause ultimately the color that matters is green. And and and it's the slow, slow process of convincing the the powers that be that such and such type of person is is bankable. And you know, and that's you know, and we and we have a and we have our like you know, Black Panthers, our you know, crazy rich Asians, our you know, things that shows that shows us like, okay, we're gonna remove all the white element out so you know that all this money that was made can be made without putting away without you, right? And so, you know, so I think that's uh you know, I think it I think it's almost like inevitable that we'll get to uh a relatively like good good place that that represents the melting plot that everything is. Uh I think a I think a good example was the uh The Witcher TV series. But I say the uh the Witcher game, the the Witcher game is based on a it's supposed to be based on a book from a Polish actor. There's all white people in that game and in those books. But they they didn't give a fuck. They they there is black people sprinkled everywhere. Black L's, black, you know, black Europeans, black, you know, what is you know they're in a fantasy world, so again, it literally just like okay well we added some seasoning to this salt.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_07There was garlic, honey, some season all, some cubits, some black pepper.
SPEAKER_03There was some adobo.
SPEAKER_07Right, and then some magic cubes in there.
SPEAKER_11Oh yeah, I stayed the bouillon, I use it for salt down. But uh, but yeah, you know, that's what you need. You just you need this you need to see these people, and you know, they they needed to take chances on them, and they did, and they and they're doing well. And uh, and as that continues to happen, I think people on all levels will continue to, you know, ultimately people people try and make money and we are bankable. And all all people of color are bankable, and they are learning that slowly but surely. And the people who aren't looking learning that lesson are probably gonna die soon. I don't disagree with you.
SPEAKER_07I don't think we should.
SPEAKER_12I'm not condoning that statement.
SPEAKER_11It's not a threat, you know, because time works a certain way, you know.
SPEAKER_10Corona might get him. I mean I'll trust like Corona because it missed 45.
SPEAKER_11Oh my god. Corona got bad aim, can't be trusted.
SPEAKER_10He might evolve.
SPEAKER_11We'll see if the problem is hard.
SPEAKER_12So as a summary, I think we've learned, I think we've put a lot of things into perspective in terms of you know what can be done. I think by talking this out, you know, there are certain things that we think and we've determined that are working and are being done slowly and surely. I think over the years, you know, between all of the different boycotts and the you know, Grammy so not Grammys, um Oscar so white, and all of those different um social media trends where you know individuals were calling out, you know, the movies, the people playing certain roles, the actors, the casting, the directors, the producers. I think we're slowly getting in a place where, you know, those not just black people, but those people of color who can be behind the camera, be in front of the camera, be on the production team, be, you know, in the uh um the not just in wardrobe, not just in makeup, not just as an extra in the back in the building, sweeping up. They can be the headliners and they can be everywhere, and they don't have to be sub uh uh, they don't have to be um uh what's the word I'm looking for.
SPEAKER_01Umjugated.
SPEAKER_12Thank you. Maybe, maybe, who knows? Um by their counter by their Caucasian counterparts. So um I think if we continue on this path as Kaze, the Black McCoy, Sayone, the Doctor, Joe Tsg, and Shampoo Grace have said, if we continue on this path, we'll get to a point where the realism of a lot of the movies that we want to see, whether they be fictional or not, will be there and we'll be able to enjoy them without second guessing the motives. Because I think a lot of the, and I'm not trying to go into another topic, but um I think a lot of the uh uh the the things that hold us back from thoroughly enjoying certain movies is at times we look for motives from the director or from the producer or from the certain people who casted the people in the movie. We feel as though, okay, so I see you put Denzel in here, so what what what what are you trying to hide? What am I not supposed to see? Who am I not supposed to be focusing on? Um, so uh I think you know we're we're definitely on that path. So I'd like to thank you all for listening to this episode of uh the Blurred Spectrum Podcast. We're wrapping up right now. Uh, if you want to talk to us or reach out to us in any way, shape, or form, you can reach out to us via our mailbag, which is the blurred spectrum at umbralstarcade.com, or you can reach out to us on any of our social medias, which offer the blurred spectrum is uh blurred spectrum on Twitter and the Blurred Spectrum on Facebook and Instagram. And then if you want to reach out to me, it's Umbral Starcade on almost every platform Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, and YouTube. And uh Joe Tsg?
SPEAKER_10Uh JoeTsg on Instagram. What's it?
SPEAKER_12Uh shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_09Tammy B87 on Twitter and Shampoo Bracels on uh Instagram.
SPEAKER_06Salon A cosplay on Facebook, salon A underscore cosplay on IG.
SPEAKER_12The doctor.
SPEAKER_13Rob Turpin on Facebook.
SPEAKER_02The Black McCoy. Black McCoy um on Instagram and the Black McCoy cosplay on Facebook. And uh don't did you already say all of our blur spectrum stuff?
SPEAKER_12I believe I did, as long as I missed one.
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_12Uh weird mailbag. I did the mailbag, right?
SPEAKER_05Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Did you do our Instagram and stuff?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I did everything else.
unknownOh never mind.
SPEAKER_12Also, expect some uh merch coming soon by our uh brilliantly talented graphic designers and uh creators. Uh also Kari Anananabe. Sorry, I've always wanted to do that on the podcast. I don't think what did you say? Not many people will get that reference. Kaze? No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_03We're not gonna glaze over it.
SPEAKER_12What did you say?
SPEAKER_06What did you say?
SPEAKER_12I said Kari Ananabe.
SPEAKER_06Who is that, Japanese?
SPEAKER_12No, it's uh uh a judge from um Dancing with the Stars.
SPEAKER_06Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I was lost.
SPEAKER_12Wow. Yeah, like I I was trying to glaze over it because I knew it was not gonna be a punchline for anybody. It's literally small on it, and now you're gonna talk about it as if it isn't funny. But I like I said, it's not for you, it's for the listeners. So I should review on YouTube. Thank you. So, as I said before, thank you for listening. Please come back next week. Uh, we actually plan on doing a very spectacular uh bracket in the next week or so. So do please stay tuned for that. I think uh everybody will be very interested in these subjects uh and the targets for this bracket. Uh, think we might go all the way up to 36. We'll see what happens. Uh so be uh stay tuned, all right?
SPEAKER_11See you. Adios. See ya.