The Blerd Spectrum
The Blerd Spectrum
Shadeism...The Shade of it all
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The crew throws a lil shade here n' there, but the real shade comes in when we unpack what shades of black we come in
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Welcome, all those who are listening to the sound of my voice. We are back on the blurred spectrum with another episode for you to enjoy. What is it called? It's called the shade. Shadeism. The shade of it all. This episode is to talk about uh several things that I believe each and every one of the our panelists have experienced in some way, shape, or form. Uh the uh encountering of one, uh it's very close to colorism, uh, of course, uh based off of our previous episode that we had in 2020. But shadism is normally something that we encounter within our own culture, by our own people, even in our own households and families. So we want to talk a little bit about this. Maybe some of our listeners have experienced this and can find some type of um reprieve from listening to our situations. But first, of course, I have to introduce our panelists, starting with myself, Suchino Shogun. Uh, next, we're gonna switch it to the winter elf, uh Miss Skittles. Then we're gonna slide on over to the doctor.
SPEAKER_05What's good?
SPEAKER_01Our expertly trained technical proficient doctor slash nurse, Miss Syone cosplay.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh, that intro.
SPEAKER_05Hello.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, our professor with the most is the black mccoy. Bonjour, mon ami, the one that can beat you at your best video game, Kaze Shinryu. Yo yo, dark dismal, and uh Soul of Despair, Joe Tsg.
SPEAKER_06First of all, you could have given me something better than that. You could just successful.
SPEAKER_01I gave you what you gave me. Fine. Fine. The leader of the kitty empire, Joe Tsg.
SPEAKER_06That makes me sound like a pervert. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01Giving you what you give me, as I always say. Um, the birthday boy and the mother of the muse's shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_03Hey.
SPEAKER_01So, real quick, well, of course, I'm not gonna tell you what day this is, but on the time of this recording, it is Shammy B87's birthday. So if you have the opportunity, go ahead and shoot uh shampoo bracelets or chammy B87's uh happy belated, I guess, uh birthday message. All right, so let's go ahead and start with this conversation. Um, just giving a couple of experiences uh uh that our listeners could uh maybe gel with. Uh who would like to begin? I think we should go for shampoo bracelets. Damo.
SPEAKER_03Um I have one incident that sticks out in my mind all the time when we start talking about shadeism or colorism. Um, it was actually at college, and it was this guy that was probably the complexion of sushi. And I had walked up, we were friends or whatever, but I had walked up and I guess at the wrong time where he had said, I'm too light skinned for him. And I was like, wow, what were we talking about ever, you know, trying to go into a relationship? All right. Thank you for letting me know that. Said that to somebody before it was just weird for me because I'm like, I've never been told that I was too light for somebody. Um, and I think it's funny now because he's married now and his wife is only maybe like a shade darker than me. So but yeah, that incident sticks in my mind all the time.
SPEAKER_11Um I'm gonna be honest, I really don't have too many moments that like like shaded. Uh shadow is something I pretty much voyed. I started out really light skinned when I was younger, and then uh I ate slowly got darker and I kept taking the match off and running out the streets. So um I stayed in the sun, I worked like a slave. So like I I I do remember uh uh somebody I I used to date um had one time told me that if I was a couple shades darker, she probably wouldn't have been with me. But um wait, what?
SPEAKER_01Wait, yeah, yeah, dating the person, and she told you while you were dating.
SPEAKER_11While we were dating, if I was a little bit darker, she would probably never date me because I would have been too dark. What would be the purpose of that conversation?
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_08Like after this compliment, she thought, yeah, she thought it was a compliment.
SPEAKER_11You ain't you ain't gonna be here much longer anyway. So I'm not gonna matter to me at all. But it was like yeah, I've I that's the closest I've been to that type of situation. Outside of that, it's I I've seen it, I've heard other people say, you know, like, oh man, person too dark for this, like that, you know, stuff like that. Or you know, I've heard the statement of uh she looked good for a dark girl. That that kind of tricked me. Um I will say I've had the the I've been more on the side of I've had more arguments with black dudes talking about why they don't date black women. That that that is that was my whole that I've had that argument a lot. And um most of them, they they they they white wives were the fuck anyway. So it was kind of it is a military thing. It really is what it is. Uh so like so it was like so it was it was it's weird when you come across that as well. This is like dudes that was like Jamaicans or like like it's like they wasn't like no average hood nigga black like like myself. It was like nah these things they were like it's like they wasn't like from your local bodega in New York, like nah, they were actually like true. They were like they would have just started, they would just charted overseas or like like over over some type of body of water. It wasn't you know it's like so it was like you know, they got they got they got roots, you know, that are very close to them that that still you know live over that still from Africa or from like the islands or something like that. So to hear them say, yeah, I only date white girls because black girls are too much of a hassle, it's like, excuse me. And that was like a set off for me.
SPEAKER_09I lost a lot of friends that like sir, if you just weak, just say that.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, no, no, for real.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no. I mean, I say ooh because you know you're speaking the truth. That's uh I was gonna I thought um uh Sammy B was gonna bring up a a colleague, former acquaintance of ours from back in uh back in the day. I'm not gonna say when.
SPEAKER_11Oh no, I could.
SPEAKER_09You want to uh this like adamantly nonpartisan individual over here.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, but I used to uh you've heard about this bitch.
SPEAKER_10You you've you've heard about him, but pretty much I've had both I I watched this dude go through you know a a lot of relationships.
SPEAKER_11Um, and like most of the black ones didn't work out too well. It was very early, too. So he got with one white girl that we were both close to. And um I watched that relationship go. Like, it looked like it was going well, but a lot of the reasons why that whole relationship went, and I think is what started his trick of not wanting to be with black girls, because he thought because she was lighter, because she was white pretty much, she would be of a different mindset. Now, the sad truth about it is this white girl was not of a different mindset, he was not, she was more black than a lot of black people know. So no, she was more black than the person in question. So it was so it was like it was watching him like fawn over her in ways that he would not pawn over black women, and I never I will say I've never actually heard him say I I won't date a black girl. And that was the one thing I think I will admit for him is that he never came out of his mouth and said, Oh, I choose white women over black women because blah blah blah. It was just that was his that ended up being his presentation.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, he didn't but like he tried to like my problem, but no one wanted he didn't want to admit that to himself.
SPEAKER_03I um like my old best friend, she was like really, really light-skinned, and like he tried to go at her, and she was just like, ew no. So I don't know if that was a trend that he had with like a bunch of black women to the point where he was turned off and decided to go with white women because he's married now and to a white woman that isn't so pretty.
SPEAKER_09But um well, you know, they do how it goes.
SPEAKER_11Um, I will say a lot of the trick started. He was uh he was in a situation where he could only date Asian women, and he discovered the the he pretty much discovered his whole waifu dreams. It was just like a lot of Asian women he came across as like very subservient, very uh very um able to be dominated, so to speak. And it was like and he, you know, from an emotional and mental step uh standpoint, so he fell in love with that idea, and I think that was kind of what ended up shaping his his want for more women of that elk. And a lot of the black women he was coming across were not of that ilk. So it was like, so it was so I think that was what ultimately he had some situations that I think ultimately ended up shaping that was that because of his bad situations with black women and then his great situations with Asian and white women only come back to black women that still was like, nope, and it was just like like more so now than before. And but Asian and white women were still like, yeah, okay, cool, more so to white women, especially. So um, and I think that's what ultimately ended up shaping his his thought process. But there was other dudes that I've known where it's like they literally just came out their Bible and say black women are a hassle, yeah, or is that in the third? Like it was like they're too argumentative, they're too, they're too uh independent.
SPEAKER_02That's the one I'm hearing. Yeah, it was a lot of oh my god.
SPEAKER_00Oh go ahead with that.
SPEAKER_03No, but no, what my best friend is single right now, and she's like we've been through this dating game. So, like a lot of people have said, Oh, you're too independent, or you're too headstrong. I was like, No, you two bitch, man up, and then we can we can actually work on the effort.
SPEAKER_09I'm just calling it like it is like I mean, I don't disagree at all. It just is like you sound like too much of a bitch to actually handle someone who has a mind of their own.
SPEAKER_02I've literally heard that multiple times um in the dating world for myself. Like, I I've I I mean hell, my ex has even said they're they were not used to dating such an independent woman.
SPEAKER_13And I don't know if it was like a compliment or if it was like it was like, oh, you might be you might be a little too in like I like it doesn't make sense to me. Like, why like you why do you want to depend on you for the answer?
SPEAKER_02Right, you why do you put somebody who who who need you to like to make sure they're all right with everything in life? Like, I don't got time for it.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, just go adopt.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Like, why do you get that needy? Like, why do you why do you need me to need you to validate yourself? Validate your own self first and then come talk to me.
SPEAKER_07You know, every time I hear that, I feel like so much of it is rooted in this desire to control. Like, that's really what it comes from. This idea that, oh, you know, you're too independent. I don't have the same control over you that I would like to. You know, it does come down to like as I mentioned, like, you know, why don't you adopt? It is infantilizing women a lot of the time. That's exactly what that how that plays out. Like almost every time I've heard that come up, it's from it's been from someone who is really overtly controlling in other ways as well.
SPEAKER_01So before we go too far into that particular conversation, no, it's fine, it's fine. Pull it right on back to um shadism. So uh Sayone, uh, we originally were you know discussing colorism, and you brought up a very unique point about the differentiation between colorism and shadism. You think you can go back into that right now?
SPEAKER_04So I would say shadism is more so when it comes to people of color. Um, it could be black, it could be Asian, uh South Pacific, it can, it's more so the shade of your skin. Uh and colorism, I think, is more so as it kind of can coincide with the race more so, whereas shadism is more so the shade, like the shade of melanin, right, per se. And um so it's it's kind of some people can see it as the same and different, but it's very similar, but it's more so with shadism, it's more so with people of color and the shade of melanin per se. Um, whereas colorism can be more so black, white, um, Latin, um, you know, um Hispanic or you know, Asian. It's more so, I think, more so the race that people are, I guess, gravitate to. More shadism is more so the melanin, the the scale of the melanin. Um, so I guess my experience, I have multiple experiences um through uh my cultural background, um, and piggybacking off of um uh the uh shampoo bracelets, and they were talking about specifically Jamaican men. I just thought it was kind of funny. Um, due to my own personal experience, there is something that I've noticed with not just Jamaican men, but Jamaican people. I'm not gonna say culture, but it's something that I have noticed since I was younger, they do favor lighter skin. And um, and then also I have my Nigerian side where the lighter you are, it can help you with your jobs when it comes to bleaching. And same things with Jamaican culture as well. A lot of people bleach their skin. And there was a specific, it was uh it's kind of funny because um I remember in my in, you know, Jamaican people kind of would look at African people and be like, why would they bleach their skin? Because I've known of Nigerian people bleaching their skin since I was a child, but it wasn't until I would say high school um vibes cartel, he actually was advertising something called cake soap, and it is a bleaching soap. And he made a song for it ever since he made that song. It was a blow-up sensation in Jamaica. You were having people who are bleaching their skin. Remember, Jamaica's hot as fuck. So you bleach your skin, you're already allowing your skin to have damage from the sun. And what they would do is that they would bleach their skin, they would wrap it in um, I would say, cling wrap to allow their skin to lighten. And eventually that could cause skin cancer. Um, but this is all because they wanted to appear more beautiful, they wanted to get that job. You know, the lighter you are, the well off you are. And these are all European standards of beauty that I think is very mind-boggling because you're in Jamaica, it's fucking hot. You're in Nigeria, it's hot as hell. You go on tan. You know what I'm saying? But it's it's something that, you know, I've had um, I'm not, I'm not gonna say who, but I've heard that wow, you in my family from a particular person, wow, you know, you look so prettier because you're you still look so lighter now. You lost weight, you look so lighter now. And I was just like, hmm, you know, and thank God that I grew up loving melanin, loving um, you know, being black in all shades and you know, and not listening to certain family members because I could have a very skewed mentality with that type of thought process. Someone telling me that I'm I look prettier because I'm lighter. You see what I'm saying? And that's coming from from someone in my family. Um going, I remember I used to take the cab to school and there was this um this African guy, I forgot where he was from, but we were kind of we would kind of have like a build a little bit of a rapport, and he knew that you know I was of Nigerian heritage. He's like, Wow are you mixed? I was like, Why would I be mixed? You look a little light to be Nigerian. I thought that was strange. You know, I have to be mixed because I don't look Nigerian. And you know, he's like, Well, you know, you must be mixed. What are you mixed with? I'm like, I'm mixed with black and black. What the fuck? Like, you know what I'm saying? It's just very strange. But I I've heard from different avenues. I've seen, you know, people in my family who are who are of a darker tone be treated differently in public. You know, I've seen my friends, you know, I have a lighter skin uh friend growing up, very, very fair, compared to me. You know, this is a different shade scale. And, you know, she was lighter than me. And I see how black men would much more gravitate to her because of her shade of skin. And I always bring this up. I said it's the Gina effect from Martin, um, you know, uh proud family, um, you know, type of effect. Like the lighter skin or the fairer skin is always is what is representative of black. It's only maybe until out to the last two years of like black appreciation in media of melanin, of different types of melanin, of hair textures as well. Uh, you know, trying to be like, just because you have of a mixed race or a lighter skinned woman on TV, that does not represent all black people. And from since I was a child, I would be so excited to even just see a lighter skinned woman on TV because that was the only representation of a black woman that I've ever seen. And now I'm like, why? But I'm like, but why can't I have people that look like me? Why can't I have people that look like, you know, that look like other people in my family? Why is it just one particular shade? But then you see different shades of white people. I didn't like that.
SPEAKER_00And that was that was where I have noticed what uh white people blue, green, red, pink, uh, turquoise, magenta.
SPEAKER_04But it's more so as like, yeah, like you like with white women, you see olive tone, you see very pale, you see, you know, more like with a tan, you saw different representations of white people. You have white people with black white people with black hair, white people with red hair, white people of different eye colors, you saw different types of white people. We didn't see just blonde hair, you saw the whole entire spectrum of a single white person you can see, but you never saw all the different spectrums of black women, the different shades, the different melanin, you know, the different textures. And that representation matters, you know, and you see these models from I would say from Kenya or from Sudan that had these beautiful melanated dark skin tones, and they're they're made fun of because of their skin tone, you know, on social media. And, you know, and it's it's just it's it's insane because those are the girls that were made fun of in middle school and in high school. And I've seen it. They they were quiet to themselves and they were ostracized because of their skin tone. They didn't, they no one else went after any other person but the darker skinned black girls and black boys. And that is just something that I've always noticed. But I am happy that this the it is starting to become an issue that people are seeing the exposure as well. And um, I hope it's not a trend. That's the only thing. I just don't want it to be like a trend. Like, you know, that's that's the only hope. I hope it's here to stay. This inclusion is here to stay. And I there's too many things I've seen that's a trend. And I just hope that this is not a trend.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I I I would definitely say that, you know, over time there have been trend like or fad-like environments or things that we see or that are depicted on TV where there's multiple shades of melanin. Uh, one example that came to mind when you were talking about it was a different world. Like we had a variety of black women on that show, light skin, caramel skin, darker skin, and then everything in between. Every guest star, every main character, there was a variety. Even on um Living Singles, although it was, you know, the main cast was kind of the different shades, they were still there. So, you know, as long as the uh there's you know, African-American casting director and somebody, a woman who's an executive person. Producer who can pick out those individuals, then it can be there. But I agree with you. When you see like mainstream or uh primetime television, if they pick a black woman, eight to nine times out of 10, it's normally been a woman of a lighter shade. And, you know, I've I've read and I've heard a many of different arguments and defenses of, oh, at least there's a black woman. Or, you know, it's only because she's famous in Hollywood. Or, you know, we're using somebody who you know her name so she can pull other people. So, you know, the reason why it seems like in the last two, three, four years that there's been a rise, in my opinion, is because we have, you know, darker skinned women like, say, Lupita, um, who are, you know, wonderful actresses, uh, well, is a wonderful actor and has the ability to bring in people because she's an Academy, yes, Academy Award-winning actress. But it's like, what happens when Lupita's doing something else? Are we not gonna have that deficit? Is there not going to be that representation anymore? Um, so you know, it's it's a very uh it's a very difficult thing to kind of navigate and difficult thing to think about, but you're not sure what's going to happen. You're not sure who's gonna be their representation. You're about to say something, the doctor?
SPEAKER_07No, no, just to you know follow that up, um it's interesting. So I do I do feel like one great thing with this, you know, one of the many great things with this larger kind of black pride movement and black elevation movement that we've had over the past several years, you know, with uplifting black actors, like Black Panther and whatnot, is that we're also uplifting darker skin more, you know, with you know, we have like you know, models and actresses who are like being celebrated toward darker skin. And this is something that is relatively recent to me, you know, where I mean, even um just I want to say 10 years ago, like, you know, just um you know, finishing up college and whatnot, one thing that really is startling to me was even at that time within these, you know, really black power, you know, pro-black circles, there was a lot of colorism present. And you see that, you know, let's say with um like posters advertising for you know modeling ads and whatnot. And when we're talking black people, it was always light-skinned black people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07You saw that over and over and over again, you know, and a lot of what we see with racism at large, with you know, the way like white assumptions about black people or stereotypes about black people, they play out within black communities in the form of shadism and colorism. With like, oh well, dark-skinned women are too independent, which and I think that one irritates me. I that's such a pet peeve of mine because I heard that so much from so many of these like controlling, you know, guys that I knew like this, oh, I can hit a black a dark-skinned woman because they're too independent, or I can date a black woman because they're too independent. Well, no, I mean, whether or not they're independent, you're just controlling. That's what that comes down to. But we see so much of that play out. And I'm really glad that as part of this, you know, the growth in black pride, like we're seeing some of this these issues around colorism really start to be well one, called out, but also we're starting to see dark skin being uplifted a little bit more. So, you know, I think we are taking steps in the right direction.
SPEAKER_01Uh the black and quite you were saying something?
SPEAKER_09I was saying, I was thinking about the um the kind of arguments that, you know, the or rather the pushback that people have made in in terms of talking about why lighter skinned people are there, like at least there's a black woman there, at least this, that, and the other. It's like, well, that it's all well and good that the like a black woman, a black person is still there. However, have we actually really unpacked how they got there in the first place and the the how strong a contributor there the shade of their skin is to how far they got versus someone who, for all intents and purposes, maybe you know, more skilled or more apt than them, but they didn't get as far because their skin is darker.
SPEAKER_04And you know, um it's it's funny you say that. Um, going back to the representation of darker skinned people in media, um, you know, there was one instance when it was Miss World or Miss Universe. Oh, I think it was Miss US, Miss US.
SPEAKER_01United States, yeah.
SPEAKER_04United States, and it was to see DC win a darker skinned black woman. And that for me was uplifting because DC, out of all the places in the US, DC is literally 50-50 when it comes to the demographic, literally, because I looked it up, so it was like 50% white people, 50% black people, or damn near 50% black people. So it's like I wanted to see, you know, like a jury of your peers. I wanted to see someone that looked like me. And DC had so many different cultures. So to see someone, that was a black woman and a dark, a melanated black woman with short hair, I was like, I was all over in my in my house, tearing damage on the verge of tears, because that was what I wanted to see, the representation of the United States, you know, and then Miss DC, a black, a melanated black woman. And going back to Lapita, what I love about Lapita so much in Viola Davis is that Hollywood wants to make dark-skinned black women subservient in their roles. I forgot how many fucking years it was, but that movie with the with Lapita, that was her breakout role. Yeah, she did not want to say the black woman that had won an Oscar for being a fucking slave. Because we've seen that for so many years. And she branched out into sci-fi horror. She branched out into a thriller. And I'm like, how many darker skinned black women can you say have done that in our generation? I feel like she's one of the first.
SPEAKER_00If not the only at the moment.
SPEAKER_04Only at the moment. I think Violda Davis is a full second or on the same page because she branched out in different types of roles as well. Right, exactly. So to see that, you know, dark and skin black women, they're not just good enough to be a fucking slave or subservient. We have so much, or they have so much of that to offer for little black boys, little black girls to see, because everything, every it's kind of like a child, a child all this information. So if they're saying that you can only be a certain shade to be something in this world, then they're going to internalize to that. So you're seeing different shades of people, and they're able to be a superhero, they're able to be uh a heroine, they're able to be a great villain, they're able to be a scientist, then you're you're telling these wonderful children they could be anything and nothing is stopping them. Nothing is stopping them. So I think that's very, very strong.
SPEAKER_01So um there's a lot of uh depictions um, I think over time that we've seen of kind of a maj page of darker skin and lighter skin. And I agree with, I believe the the doctor had stated it, that you know, darker skin individuals have been seen in actually Sayune and the doctor said it, the darker skin individuals have been seen in a more um adversarial light, like not necessarily the main character. They're either like a secondhand person or they're behind the scenes or they're an extra, or even they're the villain. And um, and this is this is globally like I've watched anime for years where the darker darker skinned character um has been either like a grunt or an enemy that wasn't even that well depicted. Um, like you'll you'll see the final boss will be even if the even if the character is African American or a person of color, there'll be a lighter skinned villain at the end, but then all the like small mini bosses will be darker skinned and you know fail miserably because of some stupid reason.
SPEAKER_09I'm sorry for like interjecting. You know what I immediately thought of? Uh Xanort from Kingdom Hearts.
SPEAKER_01You know, I didn't, that's not me.
SPEAKER_09So X and Kingdom Hearts. Um he was um Tiffany, I know I know Tiffany knows Kingdom Hearts like really well as well. But like that is one of the one of the villains that I saw like explicitly. They made him darker, like as opposed to everyone they had in that show and in that like in I'm sorry, not the show, but in like in that game and like in all their depictions of all their villains, especially when a lot of the the like the the um the lore is centered around how bad darkness is to make him literally darker skinned was like one of the most interesting choices they could have made and almost explicitly like shadess for colorist. Because it's like now you don't even have the opportunity to see a character be evil because they're doing evil things, is like their depiction of being evil is connected to what the color of their skin. And I think that that's one of the best depictions. Well, well, not the best, but one of the best in anime and video games to like show hey, being darker is bad.
SPEAKER_08You know, it's really really flagrant. And he's like the only one.
SPEAKER_09He's legitimately the only character, like even amongst all of his like minions and shit, like he is the only one who is that dark.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, uh, Kazi. No, I was about I was I was about to look up organization 13, and it's because I've because I if there's any other colors there, and that's the and that's the rest of the bad guys.
SPEAKER_01So um while you're researching organization 13, I'll talk about my personal experiences. So um mine is I've had like a variety over the years, um, and it's it's interesting. Um the main uh image that pops into my head uh when we were discussing doing this episode was uh back in elementary school, actually. And I um was minding my own business. Uh it was recess time. I was on the playground, and I I'm not in any way, shape, or form calling the individuals who because I've always been taller than most people my entire life for the most part. And even then I was uh I was uh what did my mother used to call me? Um what's that word? Uh what's the name of the turkey? Um Butterball. There it is. Uh uh, I was a chunky child. So Butterball. It was a butterball, it's probably butter. I don't know. Anyway, so anyway. So um I was a thicker child, huh?
SPEAKER_12I was thinking butterball, but I was like, are we talking about height or no?
SPEAKER_01We're talking around. Yeah, I was a chunky child. Um, but I was also tall. So back then, you know, uh most people, I had friends, but most people just kind of, you know, minded their business because they didn't know what would happen if they took me off. Uh so I'm on the playground, and it was several, and again, I'm not calling them colorist or racist in any way, shape, or form, uh, but um several lighter skinned boys uh were throwing hula hoops, jump ropes, and other like gym equipment at me. And it was like seven of them and myself. So they're like around me, and I'm trying to mind my business. And one of them came at me, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because it was an old shirt, or maybe because it was it was previously ripped by me. I don't know. One of them grabbed my shirt and ripped it off. And it was like spring or summer, so I didn't have an undershirt. So all you saw when they ripped off the shirt was my skin. And I don't know, again, I I guess maybe my back or my chest was darker than my face, but they instantly started teasing me because of how dark my body was. And um, it I don't recall any of the names that they were calling me. It was a very long time ago, but it was very confusing because there were darker skinned individuals amongst them. Most the the main two antagonists were lighter skinned, but there were other dark skinned uh individuals around with them. And I was like, in my mind, it wasn't processing because I'm like, okay, so you rip my shirt. Are we done with this game? And then they started to um jokingly try to use the jump rope as a whip. That's when I lost my ish. Um, I don't really remember much after that. I do remember like pile driving somebody into the concrete because I got in trouble by the office. I don't remember. But anywho, um uh those are the types of things that's like one of the main uh instances I remember of, and you know, there was maybe seven white people at my school at that time. Everybody else was pretty much black and like a sprinkling of Hispanic, so our Latino. So it's like to I I I don't I've never understood why there always has to be like the whole bully and you know, nerd or the geek and the lesser person or the goth or the person who's unpopular, and somebody always has to get picked on. But the reason why I brought up that particular instance is those we were in elementary school. So you're talking less than 13 years old, and TV couldn't have possibly taught these children. And you know, back in the day, a lot of our parents would say, Oh, it's the TV, it's these things that you're watching that are convincing you to do the things you're doing. And I'm like, Well, that's impossible because you know, TV's leaving out most of my characters. I wouldn't even be on the screen. So it's like, and if I am on the screen, they're not picking on me like that unless you watch like Roots um or um uh The Color Purple. So if that's your mainstay, then sure, that's you're fine. You you you portray the character accurately, whatever. Granted, you weren't the massa. Um, so my thought process was it has to be how they see either older siblings or cousins or relatives or parents interacting with people who are my shade or my color, because it's you know, when you think of something like that, why would you feel like that's a good thing to do? It's one thing if you ripped off my shirt, okay. Let's say it was an accident, but now it's it's turned into this whole situation where you are mimicking a very uh delicate situation, and it's for for children, it's very confusing looking back on it. Like, why was that okay? Why did you think it was okay? Why was that fun for you? I guess that's the better question. What where was the fun in that situation where you felt like it was okay to pick on anybody, regardless of their skin color? But the fact that I was darker and you felt as though, oh, um, and I don't think they ever said the word slave or anything like that, but you know, when you start to like move over jump rope like a whip, there's certain implications. There's certain things you're trying to say without saying it. So there's, you know, there's something in their mindset, there's something that they were that was instilled in them, something that was taught, something that they saw. Maybe, you know, their parents had darker skinned friends that they kind of clowned around. I don't know, but there's something, maybe they heard something, something is instilled in them from previous interactions or previous things that they've seen that's then passed down to the next generation. So I was I wanted to one share that. And then also, uh kind of piggybacking off of what uh Say and A Cosplay was saying about, you know, Nigerian roots. Like one of the things that, you know, it's and she was saying, you know, she's known since she was a child that bleaching your skin in, you know, for Nigerians, certain Nigerians, is common. It's they sell it in every corner store, every grocery store. It's a product on the shelf. It's not like you have to ask the uh like cigarettes, you have to ask them to get the box on the back next to the newports. No, it's it's next to your nail polish and your uh your uh what's that thing called you putting your hair? I don't know why, conditioner. Sorry. Um, so it's right there, it's easy for them to access and people do it all the time. Young girls, older women, all that. And what I guess my experience would be different from Sayonate is not that there isn't a disparity between darker or light-skinned men in Nigeria, but it's less of a not many people care about it. For women, that European style of beauty is kind of, oh, for me to get the husband, oh, for me to get the job, oh, for me to make the money, oh, for me to do what I need to do, for people to pick me, I have to be of a lighter color. For men, I'm again, I'm not gonna say there's one or the other because I do have a cousin who's extremely fair skinned, and I won't say that he has more opportunities than I do. Um but hey, hey, watch what the cost. I will say that you know, my family members who are of lighter skin have been placed into certain opportunities a lot easier, but those are opportunities I didn't want anyway. So I guess I didn't feel like I was being, you know, shaded against. That's interesting. Um uh uh in in those particular situations. They wanted it and you know they can have it. Granted, they didn't use it properly, so they failed on their faces, but that has nothing to do with me. Um so yeah, I think that you put in there. Um, I think uh and you know, as I said, Psyone can agree, and I actually I think from a previous conversation I've had with Miss Skittles, she can agree that you know, with international um uh international countries and heritages and races, the lighter your skin is or caramel complexion, just not dark. Let's just say like that, just not dark, you have better opportunities. I think when I first heard about the brown paper bag test, and this is back again when I was in elementary school, I was very confused. I didn't know what the hell it meant. Um, because you know, I I had nothing about Nigerians in my house. So, you know, African Americans wouldn't explain this to me. And I didn't, it seemed like something nobody wanted to talk about. So I didn't outright say, hey, Kaze, what's the brown paper bag test? It just wouldn't be right. So um I just had to wait until somebody said it. And I think um when I found out, and when I think the team my instructors said it in class, and when they did, a lot of the people who passed got like an almost uh chest rising, and now they all of a sudden felt even better than they did moments ago. And for like a couple of weeks, they kind of showed out and they were kind of like, Oh, huh. Yeah, you seem to be uh a little darker than the desk there. Uh huh. I was like, wow, we're doing this, bro. You're failing this class. I'm surprised she even lets you sit down. Like, what? How dare you?
SPEAKER_10First of all, you're your raise a little bit too low for your mouth, for you, for your chest to be for your voice to be so loud.
SPEAKER_01Like, what are you doing? So, you know, it's uh for me and my experiences with it, it's it just seems to be something that's passed down generationally, or it's something that people witnessed from older siblings and they they attached, latched onto it, and were like, this must be the truth, and this is what I need to abide by. Oh, I'm lucky because I'm light skinned. Oh, you know, I'm lucky because I'm caramel complexion. Um oh, and then that whole, I'm sorry to keep taking up the time, but that whole um black uh uh dark skin is in, dark skin dudes are in, light skinned dudes are in. That's been going on for years, even before all of us were born. I am so sick of that. Like, I remember what was it? I think it was when I just alba hit the scene and it was like dark skinned dudes are back. I was like, first of all, I don't feel like I was ever out of style, so I need you to allow Idris Alba to be the bartering line. You're going to use him.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, they they've been they've been saying they was uh they was out since uh New Jack City. That was the last time they was in and then Wesley went and did all the drugs, and then they didn't all the all the all the dark niggas lost it for some reason.
SPEAKER_11Oh man carried it after that.
SPEAKER_08Oh uh yeah, there was there was some time in between there, that little Morse chap chest. Uh was the was uh Tay Diggs. That's another one. Yeah, but but it yeah, but they all like kind of disappeared at the same time.
SPEAKER_01They did actually. That's why I think they're in the cloud.
SPEAKER_08I didn't get no thing.
SPEAKER_04You know, there is um I'm sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01No, no, finish. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04Um, there's something that uh I wanted to, I guess, express to the younger generation and parents of children, um, to educate them about light skin privilege, um, to educate yourself that because you may yourself be lighter than you know, your darker friends or your darker family members, to know that you have a privilege, you know what I'm saying, and to educate yourself about it and to educate that you might have it easier than your darker friend or your darker family member, and to make sure that you express that so people are know about what's going on. You know, I think a lot of times because someone that is not darker, we don't go through the same things that someone that is darker does. And so because we are not worried about it, like white people use, they don't they don't even know about their privilege, because if they don't go through Don't even think about it. Same thing with fitism. If you don't go through it, you don't even think about it. A lot of times it's not even there. But they have to go through that every single day, whether it is in their love life, whether they're if they're attractive attractive in the social media's eye, whether it's a job opportunity, they have no choice but to go through this. So you have to also be an ally for darker skinned people of color. And that is something that I also want to express within the Black community, within, you know, you know, people of color, that the more you express and make sure that they are visible, the less this colorism or sadism is going to be in the public eye, especially when it comes to the indigenous people, especially when it comes to tribal people of different places around the world of people of color. There are dark-skinned Chinese people. There are darker skinned Filipinos. There are, you can say, like people think that, oh, all Asians across the board are light-skinned. No, they're not. You know, and a lot of times, you know, a lot of times the darker tone people of color are put to the side. Or they're they're made to have this small subgroup that no one even knows about, even in Egypt. There are dark-skinned Egyptians. All that we see now are lighter skin Egyptians, but you know, just to make it known that they are there, they're visible and they're important because a lot of times no one really cares about it if they're not going through it or if they don't personally have to deal with it. So it is really being an ally and being a voice for your friends, your family, your counterparts, so that we also have to include our own people, or you know, you see what I'm saying? So it's just something that I would definitely am going to teach for my children because they might they're probably not going to be darker in complexion. Um and I have to explain that to them that just because you are fair skin, you're gonna have to know that you have a privilege and you're gonna have to make sure you hold everybody the same respect or the same value. You know, I don't want them to just live in ignorance because of the color their skin. I just I never wanted that. I don't want that at all. And I want to make sure that the newer generation of children really see the whole world as a whole entire spectrum of melanin, especially you know, in our community.
SPEAKER_10So I'm thinking of the new thing.
SPEAKER_04I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_09What just happened? No, okay.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. That was I was kind of tying that in. I'm glad you said that.
SPEAKER_08Well, you dropped it in the time.
SPEAKER_03With the younger generation that's coming up, you would have to get our generation to realize that that's a problem first. Exactly. Something you said earlier, saying that made me realize of an incident that Mark and I had. One of his friends came up to visit when we were still living in Maryland, and we were in a Rundle Mills mall, and his friend is probably the black McCoy's complexion. So are his children. I can't tell you how many times, like Maddie was like a baby. I don't even think she was one yet. Well, she was okay. Maybe she was one. But we both had kids in the stroller and everything. I can't tell you how many times Mark and I got stopped in the mall to be like, oh, your baby's so cute, your baby's so cute. How old is she? And then, like, after a while, it started becoming awkward because like no one walked up to his friend and was like, Oh, your kids are cute. And then, like, even my old boss, I caught her in the mall from the job I was working, stopped. Stop me and said, Oh, your daughter's so cute, kind of glanced at his kids for a second and then came back to like in my face.
SPEAKER_11With that person that we're talking about, in particular, not my friend, but the boss that she had. Me and my friend looked at each other because you know how animates when you go across an individual and they have a darkness about them that you can see in the background, but you have to have like the conqueror's eye to see that shit. Like, that was pretty much how we looked at her. Like we could see her darkness, her shade coming out of her. And we just looked at me and my boy looked at each other like, did you see that? He's like, Yeah. Like that was the type of person she was. I'm going to go with her.
SPEAKER_10That's what baby.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, Amy had the decency to bless their heart. Right.
SPEAKER_03She wasn't that type of person. She was she was a middle-aged white baby.
SPEAKER_00That's your baby. But it was just awkward after a while. Because it was never time.
SPEAKER_08With my shoes. That's where you get those from. Make some nice conversations.
SPEAKER_03And then I felt bad because then he had to keep stopping every time we got stopped. That's the worst part.
SPEAKER_01I'd have kept going. Keep it pushing. Um, so uh, as I said before, Miss Skittles, I know you have had uh situations yourself uh dealing with uh shadism as well as colorism, but shadism is what we're talking about right now.
SPEAKER_02Uh, if you want to give us one of your experiences, uh so I try to I'm trying to make this quick, but um my my the so the experience that pops out in my head um mostly mostly because it was it was pretty well no it's not recent, but yeah. Um so in when you guys are talking about like cultures, um I I know the the Caribbean culture um uh countries like Hispanic countries, um Latin countries, they're all um they all dabble very uh not dabble heavy into heavy into shadism and colorism. Um but um the the incident that sticks out to me like readily, um I went to the Dominican Republic um on vacation and with my business signing up for excursions and all these things. Um and um the the guy that was signing me up for this the stuff, he was like, ooh, he was like, Are you are you from here or you know you you're you're Dominican or whatever, you mixed up and I was like, Well yes. Um and he was like, I could tell because you he was like, um you just have that like that perfect, like perfect Dominican tone. And I and I'm like, perfect Dominican tone? Like with like he was like, you're not too dark, um, but you're not too light. And and I and and he literally said that to me at the at the table signing up for excursions, and I'm just like, oh like and I I mean like like I didn't know what to say.
SPEAKER_13I didn't know whether like I felt I kind of felt offended, honestly.
SPEAKER_02Like you, you just you like he was like, you just write, like just right. Um, and I know, I mean, in in Hispanic and Latin cultures, um, a lot of times that's like an ongoing joke. I know um like on social media the the Dominicans get dragged all the time because unfortunately in in the Dominican Republic, um, if you are darker skinned, um like to be considered black is like like I'm not black, like what?
SPEAKER_10Like what can we say nigga like with a full chest?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so like to to to be a Dominican person uh and and claim anything other than Dominican, um it's just like what like what are you talking about? Like like they they literally share the same island as um Haitians and those people identify as black. Um, but Dominican people a lot of times they will not like they like refuse. I'm not black. Um and um and that kind of falls in line like with with not so much my whole family, but for a long time, uh my sister um would not identify as black. She she was like, I'm I'm brown. Like if we like, oh we black, you know, we black. No, I'm brown. She would literally say I'm brown to avoid being, you know, identified as black. So um is it's it's just sad, honestly. Um, and then like I said, that whole experience was not shocking. I think it was shocking that we were having a conversation, or he was having a conversation and and and didn't feel any way about it. It was like a everyday thing. Oh, you know, you you're you're perfect brown, like you're not, you're not too light, you're not too dark, like you perfect, perfect brown. Um, but I think um I I kind of want to touch on like so I know that so everybody here knows that there's no such thing as reverse racism, right? So I think so I think there there is a such thing as reverse shadism. And I say that for myself because um like growing up, growing up, my family, a lot of my family lives in Florida now. So growing up, like being in Florida and and being out in the sun or whatever, like my my family always used to be like, oh, don't you know, don't stay outside too long because you don't want to get too dark. Like it was, like it was a bad thing to you know to get a tan or whatever, like you don't want to get too dark. Um, you know, like it's that's not good. Um and then as far like now I realize, oh my god, like like why was why why was y'all saying that? Like that's that's a hard one thing to say. But now I'm I'm like as an adult, I'm when people when people say I'm red bone or I'm light skinned, I'm I get offended because because of the way the way uh our society has uh sometimes painted light-skinned people as like overly emotional, or you know, like oh you acting light skinned. Like and I have heard and I've heard that, and I've I've gotten into literally shade arguments, and I say shade arguments because it's other black people, shade arguments where we all discussing our colors and and who would get into Wakanda and who wouldn't, and like and like literally been like, I am not light skinned, y'all. And and and even now, like I tell people, I'm not light skinned, I'm brown, dog. I'm I'm definitely brown. So um, so I I I definitely feel like this is something uh goes back to something that uh Saine was saying, like, uh well everybody really that we have to um we have to first realize ourselves to teach our children that you know I mean yes, there there is there is privilege with having lighter skin. Um but you also don't wanna you also don't want lighter skinned people in our community to to be associated with certain uh negative things, uh same way you don't want dark skin associated with with you know things like oh she's pretty for a dark skinned girl. Um so you know I I wouldn't I like I don't have nothing against light skinned people, but when when people be like, oh you looking kind of light skinned, I'd be like, ooh, I ain't never I ain't never been light skinned in my life.
SPEAKER_04I just feel the same way they're like Shanet, you light skinned, like uh-uh, I'm caramel brown.
SPEAKER_09I ain't so that's something that I've been in, I've been like juggling myself a lot because I know a lot of lighter skinned people, and I know like a lot of light skinned people, and I found it. I think I made a Facebook status about it like some weeks ago. And it's been, I don't know, given COVID time, it was probably like two days ago, but still, it was a while ago. And I was like, it's I I found very interesting that a lot of people who are lighter skinned or you know, maybe have been just light skinned or whatever have been experiencing this kind of like I've I've I've noticed that there's been that exact sentiment. It's like, no, I'm not light skinned. I'm like, but and I'll be that person like, I mean, you you are like you are light-skinned. I mean, like, you're not like you're not like high yellow, you know, Chris Brown when he first popped on the scene, light skin. But like but I mean, but it's funny because it's like I know people, and it's like I know people, and I and then it's interesting because it's like and I can recognize the different, you know, like darker skin, like even I know like I'm darker skinned, but I'm like I'm not like dark, dark skin. Like, I'm in like that, maybe like I hate I hate to say this, but it's the first thing that comes to mind. I'm that like dark to like milk chocolate like shade area, but then I know people who are like brown, and then people who are like a lighter brown, and then like people who are like light skinned, but they're like a darker, lighter skin, and then it's like high yellow, then there's like yellow, light skin, then there's like highly yellow, like you might, like you might be logic. Like there's definitely a gradient, and it's and it's it's been the most interesting thing to to it, it feels like an outside looking in kind of thing, because I've always I have always been on the dark region of things, and like it's always been a back. And what's interesting that you that um Miss Kittle said was that in Florida, like there would like there'll be outside the world, you might get too dark. And it's like even as someone who's already dark, like that was shit I would hear all the time. But I also grew up in Georgia, you know, if I will go, so you know, you know, post-slavery and all that, still that's just still it's you know symptomatic of in the entirety of a lot of our lives. So it it it's it's it's still curious to me um to be the to to to hear people who I personally would consider lighter skin, regardless of like how light you are. If you're lighter than me, then you just then I'm gonna call you light skin. Just how like someone who's shorter than like if you're shorter than me, I'm gonna call you short. I don't care if you're two inches shorter than me, you're still short. I still I still reserve uh uh some degree of lightener to refer to you as shorter than me, regardless of how much shorter you are. Okay, short stuff, calm down.
SPEAKER_12Anyway.
SPEAKER_09But I was saying like uh like obviously so but the the it's it's uh it's it's weird to I I say that because it's again it's like an outside looking in perspective because it's like, well, I mean, you y'all are a lot of y'all are just lighter than me, and I will refer to you as light skinned. I'm like, I'm I might got I might not see you as like, you know, you about to be, you know, you about to transition, you're about to be racial, dolzal, transracial and shit. Like you're not about to just like come off as white and like hyper light skinned or something like that. Like you're not like Sailor Moon transformation bright, but I mean you're light, you're lighter. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think it's I definitely agree that it's terrible that there are a lot of um uh I guess uh like more what's the word I'm looking for? Negative, you know, connotations to lighter skinned folks. Um but also think it's partly, you know, uh it's reactionary as far as what it means to be darker skinned. Um at least when it I'll say I think I and I I I want to be careful when I say that because I know there's a lot of different layers to it. Like there's a there's there's a difference between the the relationship between um like lighter skinned masculine people or and like or cis men and stuff like that, and like lighter skin, like cis women people. Um and there's a difference between you know how darker skinned people interact with, you know, lighter skin or like may have some sort of like idolatry towards like lighter skin masked people or lighter-skinned thin people. So like there's there's a lot of different um ways to approach the different dynamics, and it's gonna be very specific. Like there, I wish there were like uh actually I don't wish, but there aren't monolithic ways of approaching it from one way or another. The the different dynamics that are involved in that are always gonna be shifting and it's always gonna be different, and the way you look at it is going to be interesting as well. And part of I think part of the resistance that at least that I've been hearing about are experiencing now when it comes to people being um being referred to as like lighter lighter shades to their skin, like it's uh it's a very radical pushback away from like whiteness. Because for that's a lot of what being lighter skinned is associated with being mixed in some way, shape, or form with whiteness or being um diluted with whiteness, or even I would even go so far as to say being kind of tainted in some way with whiteness. And there's a lot of connotations that come with that, like the kind of stereotype of like lighter skinned people constantly having to you know overcompensate for their blackness in some way, shape or form because they're not as dark as their you know darker skin peers or whatever. And so like I definitely I definitely get the the resistance in that regard. But I also don't think it's nothing to be particularly ashamed of. Um but is uh but but I understand, but at least up from my perspective, I understand it as um partly just a change, a shift in how you know black people have progressed and how black pride itself has progressed in a lot of different ways. And you know, nobody wants to deal with the whole tet nigga. And you know, their whole that's a whole other that's a whole other podcast.
SPEAKER_00That's a whole nother podcast episode.
SPEAKER_11Let's not act like we have done that.
SPEAKER_01That's true. We haven't done the episode, but we have mentioned that before. But what I wanted to do is um slide it over to someone who's had, I'm sure, a completely different and unique um situational experience in life as it pertains to shadism, uh, and that would be Joe TSG.
SPEAKER_06I wouldn't say different. Um maybe more so in the workplace, yes. Because of what people feel they can say around me and think it's okay. Especially when it comes to darker skinned co-workers. Male or female, doesn't really matter. Um, and they think maybe because I I look less threatening than most, um I'm not gonna say anything. But usually they're surely wrong, and I will curse you out within the workplace or out of the workplace. It doesn't really matter. Um outside of the chat. I don't know what to do. I don't know. Just consider that out. Thank you. Um as far as like people making fun of me because of me being light. I mean, maybe I just don't particularly take that stuff seriously. And they also won't fight me, so it's like I don't know what the purpose of it is. Like, as part of the the Drake brigade, I don't feel like don't give up, but that like that's the first person most people think of.
SPEAKER_00That's true.
SPEAKER_08Just these young niggas.
SPEAKER_00See, that's what I'm saying about right there.
SPEAKER_09Wait, did you also have it was like um it was like the Weedy, Mulatto, and Doji Cat need to have like a battle to see who the best the best.
SPEAKER_11That'll be a good battle though. Especially with especially with watching who loses and who wins and see what they do. Cause yeah, Logic went down a rabbit hole, man. I didn't want him to go down. He uh changed up on everybody. I will admit to it.
SPEAKER_09The irony is that Light's King Keisha was not included in that.
SPEAKER_06Um we'll leave LS alone.
SPEAKER_01Joe's TSG, would you say that outside of the workplace you have or have not encountered any fadism? Off the top of your head, of course.
SPEAKER_06Um probably more so overt, but like I would really have to dissect it. Um but I also am someone that likes to stay in the house and not deal with it a lot of the times, too. So like honestly, not really. More so in Milford, I've experienced overt just racism living back in Connecticut. Right. Like I would be just walking the street and a random police officer just stops me out of the middle of nowhere and is wondering what I'm doing here in this particular area. I've got maths specifically, but I'm also walking to a bus stop. So I don't know what you want me to say. Um But no, I I can't like when it comes to like a lot of your experiences, I can't really relate to them.
SPEAKER_05It definitely did, but I and that's what I was saying at the beginning.
SPEAKER_01Everybody's experience is different, it all depends on what you were around, and you know, and that's why I wanted to make sure Sione 1 gave that not necessarily definition, but that kind of insight into what we are kind of seeing or saying colorism versus shadism is, and then I wanted you to give your experience if you encountered or think you've encountered anything amongst you know friends, family. Also, I think I just have this thought.
SPEAKER_06Both of my parents my mom being about probably slightly light, actually slightly darker than the doctor's complexion, and my dad being light skin as you guys could know made it very pointed to make me really love my blackness regardless of the color of my skin, because they knew I would have certain privileges within throughout life, also with the name Joseph. I mean that's a huge part in if you're gonna get an interview or not, unfortunately. That's a common thing.
SPEAKER_00They won't call me Jacob, they'll call me Joseph.
SPEAKER_06So um, I think for me, I've never really had an issue like with pulleys and like the color of my skin as far as the closest to that would be someone calling me light bulb. Which okay, I'm I'm light. I light up the room, I guess. You could look at that in like a positive or negative light.
SPEAKER_08I mean light up my life.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, light bright would have never really been the most effective insult.
SPEAKER_06Like I used to have one.
SPEAKER_10Like the little boards with the like the lights and shit.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but I used to so I used to draw a lot, so I would just like draw my own pictures and then like staple it to the little thing and then bright boards, yeah. The little board and then just put the little text and whatnot in.
SPEAKER_00Miss Kittles, what are we about to say?
SPEAKER_02So I was gonna say, so um I think Joe's experience with shadism is kind of um something that uh Say and A touched on um as far as like lighter skinned individuals. Um not saying Joe is privileged or anything like that, but you know, coming into encountering less shadism incidents um in in life um because they are fair skinned. Um, so I I think that that's kind of interesting how that just unfolded.
SPEAKER_01No, I agree. I I definitely agree. Like the fact that you know, he as he was saying, he hasn't experienced as much or any compared to us in the stories that we have. I'm sure when you eventually got to the workplace, it caught you not necessarily off guard, but it Oh, it did caught you off guard? I don't know.
SPEAKER_06No, no, I but I noticed it more like it was yeah, right. It was because it's like, okay, I'm the only like black person in this entire workplace. But like that's that's interesting. And the only person that you would probably see of color is probably working as like a maintenance worker and is only there at nighttime. I mean, did you or they were students and they but they were not African American, they were like coming from somewhere overseas, either or parts of Africa or whatever like that.
SPEAKER_01But I mean, did you feel like that was colo shadism, colorism, or racism? The comparison between you and the other co-workers um or other people in the workplace.
SPEAKER_06Racism more so right, but like that's just because living in Connecticut, you just see it so often that like at a certain point, like kind of question it. Right. I don't know. Like you get so used to people saying certain things that you just become used to it and you just kinda it doesn't phase you anymore. Not into it. Yeah, gotcha.
SPEAKER_11Quick thing too. Um, and the reason why I bring this up is we say it a lot that you know we use colorism and shadism for a lot of the people who go and be like, oh, that doesn't exist. Yeah, we know it doesn't really exist. It's called the caste system. We got it. Whatever. And for everybody else that wants to be, you know, well, you know, that you know, the whole we understand that reverse racism doesn't exist, but for everybody else is gonna be like, oh, but it does. No, it's called prejudice. Like it was let's get that out there too. Like it's not like y'all, we get it, uh we do, we and we're saying I'm saying this so we can avoid a bunch of dumb ass messages talking about y'all don't know what you're talking about. Uh reverse racism exists. Like, no, reverse racism does not exist. Look up the definition. I'm not gonna make this a hotel podcast, but like I want to make this a your dumb ass podcast. Like it's like we we we understand that. Like I said, we use the colors and shaders more so sticky to the subject at hand because prejudice comes in many old ways, shape, or form. The caste system itself is a deep rabbit hole that we don't want to go into right now. But like but understand is like there's a reason for why we're saying this, you know, like I said, just for future reference and dumbasses, mainly just to keep the dumbassry away. I know that's not a word either, but fuck you.
SPEAKER_01I want to hear uh some of the um it doesn't have to be a bunch of them, maybe just one story from the doctor. Uh, I know you have experienced, we've had conversations before, I know you've experienced um several things before. So, do you have one that comes to mind as it pertains to uh shadism?
SPEAKER_07Um, yeah, so I think I touched a little bit on this with just seeing, you know, for all these ads for models, you know, when I was like at Howard and you know, I just we were starting to explore the DC area, and even when it was targeting black people, um it was always lighter skinned black people. You know, and when I started working in like, you know, when I'm working in clubs and bars and like bartending and whatnot, um, that was something I saw a lot of too, where there's very clear that the pinnacle of beauty as far as you know the people making these flowers was were concerned was lighter skinned people. That was something that came up a lot, you know. So it definitely reinforced that. And I think for me, it was a little bit surprising because originally, like coming, you know, I went to predominantly white high school, so we didn't really have conversations about colorism. We had a lot of conversations about racism because I think with that over and over again, but you know, like colorism wasn't really something that was talked about a whole whole lot. And I think as we did going outward, like I started like learning all of the terms around that and like kind of putting a name to this phenomenon that's really starting to see. You know, and I think um it's interesting in the context of you know uh reverse racism being bullshit pretty much, you know, like not a thing. But um I think with colorism as well, and I think it's important to acknowledge that you can have um you can have experiences related to colorism that negatively affect light-skinned and dark-skinned people while still acknowledging that it is systematically in one direction predominantly, which is you know, that would be like light-skinned privilege, you know, colorism primarily against dark-skinned people. And, you know, I think that has a lot of parallels to, you know, the reverse racism argument where it's like, oh, you know, yeah, like you can have someone being made fun of because they're right, because they're prejudiced, but that's not racism to white people. You know, so yeah, and I think even you know, as we talk about this, like it's fine to acknowledge both those things. Like there are like real forms of, you know, which is real forms of um colorism that you know kind of come up that do also impact, you know, or have negative or relate to stereotypes about light-skinned people. Like the whole you know, thing that irritates me is um light-skinned men being seen as feminine effeminate, you know, or something like that, which that comes up all the time.
SPEAKER_01All the time.
SPEAKER_07But that that is even still rooted in this larger idea of like dark skin being dangerous, you know, that dangerous, you know, seen as a little more hyper masculine. And you know, it is, I think uh the black people use the word reactionary, and I completely agree with that. Like it is there are some reactionary elements that come up as well when it comes to um colorism, with you know, oh, if you're like holding your blackness is something, or your dark skin is something horrible, you know. Well, I'm then you know, you're going to start taking pride in your brown skin. You're gonna think, hey, you know, no, I'm not, you know, you might say I'm not white and brown, but that's not like reverse colorism. That's just you know, the reacting, you know, that's pride that comes out of, you know, hey, I'm pushing back against this color, this discrimination that I've experienced or seeing so much, you know. I wouldn't even and that wouldn't really be reverse colorism, but um, you know, it is it's complex, like, and it is important to acknowledge that there are all these complexities that affect a lot of us, whether you're light skinned or dark skin, but there's still the existence of light skin privilege, but even with all of that. Um, and yeah, you know, I think um for me, you know, looking back in like my experiences, I think just really, yeah, I think it really is like the beauty standards that stood out to me as the way colorism really started to hit. You know, um the other thing is interesting when you talk about um you know the conversation of like, well, who's considered light skinned? Um sometimes that's really obvious, sometimes it is really context specific. Yeah, and it's never been in context where you know, like I would never call myself light skinned, but I have been in context where I've been called, you know, one of the light-skinned people, you know, so you know, even someone you know who has as brown as me. Like, um, but it's so it's it's complicated. Like it's a very difficult thing to really say, like to completely cut off, you know, and I think in that way, colorism can sometimes affect you know people very differently depending on the context of the people around them and what they believe your color to be, you know, because you could be light to one person, but dark to another, you know, in a lot of instances.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I I was just about to like not piggyback, but I was just gonna add like it also not only is it you know the comparison between you and another person, it's also what you see yourself as. Because I've seen uh I've talked to people who's like, oh, I'm extremely dark, and I'm like, but but but you're but but you're lighter than me. Um not saying no, because in my mind, I'm like, if you're calling yourself extremely dark and I know you're lighter than me, then what the hell am I? Like you won't like what is what what are you trying to what what's going on? I don't understand. So yeah, it's it's also how you view yourself. And if you you know, if you and you know, this has been depicted on TV multiple times, if you depict or if you see in your mind dark is bad or dark is ugly or dark is you know whatever it is, and you view yourself as ugly or bad or what have you, then you associate what you equally say is bad or whatever as what you are. So, oh I'm ugly, so I must be dark skinned, or I'm ugly, so I must be really, really black. So yeah, I I definitely agree. It is about what people view, what people see, and also how you see yourself. But I'm gonna, you know, pass it over to the other panelists. I'm gonna give them a uh little introduction. So uh remember uh a story from back in the day, uh where myself and this panelist went to an event. And while we're at this event, it was set up by uh a friend of mine, uh, and there was a bunch of people there. Nice little house party, get together. Um, the person who uh organized it, his sister, uh, was there and I came into the house first. And you know, I was talking to her and we'll talk to a couple other people. Then this panelist came into the building shortly afterwards. And for this young lady who I was talking to, she said that the room stopped, and the prettiest, most handsome, light-skinned man she had ever met had just walked into the room. Now, at the time, um, not saying I wanted to get with her in any way, shape, or form, but I was like, wait a minute. Again, if he's the prettiest man in the room, then what the fuck does that make me? And then there's a bunch of other light-skinned dudes in the room who are lighter than this man. So what exactly are you saying? Anywho, introducing Jose Sinry.
SPEAKER_00I'm so confused.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like who the hell said that?
SPEAKER_08Like, what yeah, yeah, especially if somebody somebody's trying to hit it wrecking my brain, like who who's saying I was like, they never go against. Um, yeah, that was that was interesting. Uh yeah, I I don't have too too much uh personal experience with uh shadeism or colorism. Uh I I I honestly thought until I was damn near an adult, I thought I thought it was a joke. Like I would like I would hear like the you know, like yeah, like the light skins are in, the dark skins are in. I thought it was just a black culture thing. I thought, you know, it was always like tongue in cheek. Uh uh, and I and I still find a lot of the memes funny.
SPEAKER_09But you're like, oh that's serious.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I was I was uh like like I think I think the first time I I think I heard like a family member and uh and you know and they and they says you know, I th I think I heard something along the lines of uh like oh yeah she looks pretty good for a dark skin girl, and I was like, mm-hmm. Uh which is I was like waiting, I was waiting for like the punchline, and I was like, oh you you're saying, oh um yeah, and it definitely wasn't until much later that like you know I I look I got I looked into the you know the histories and uh all the other things. Uh yeah, I always I always thought it was fascinating, kind of, you know, kind of like uh how Suchi just said um how like someone's uh someone's personal rejection of a label will completely change their like self-perception like to the point like uh like I don't I don't I don't like all these things attached to light skin, so I'm not so I'm not gonna be light skinned, you know, you know, warm blankets like I don't understand.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, no what they be saying. I'm I'll be on my drink shit, like I'm I'm I'm I'm a dark skinned baby. I've always been a dark skin.
SPEAKER_10Aubrey, shut up. Terrible. Like Aubrey Liberty was darker than you were. Shut up.
SPEAKER_08But yeah, I think I think I've been uh uh fortunate enough to be like you know in that nice, nice middle ground tone-wise, where I don't I don't think I'll you know I was I came off as egregious to anybody who's uh you know extremist one way or another, like, oh yeah, like they they they'll like see me as themselves if if if that was what was acceptable or or you know or they recognize the middle ground or that or he be like or they be like, oh he's one of the other ones, but he's one of the good ones. Yeah. Uh but whichever whichever way they're fucked up thinking uh leaned. But uh it's it's it's never actually uh uh come up in conversation, thankfully, because I I I would have read them for filth. So if someone like said say that out loud to me in person. Um but uh actually I did have a uh what was it? My my boss who was uh sort of sort of like maybe like a few shades, lighter than Miss Skills, bit paler skin. Um this is like a 53-year-old woman. She had just found out that light skin privilege was a thing, and you know, she vehemently denied that she had any type of privilege. She's like, I'm a black woman, if I had to do this, I've experienced racism. And I'm like, yeah, I get that, it's not the same thing. The you know, and you know, like like we said before, like you can't you you can't say I don't have privilege, you gotta you gotta look you gotta talk to the people who who don't have said privilege and compare your experiences. You don't know what you got till it's gone. And seeing as a darken or lighten nobody against your will, you know, ain't nobody losing you know what they have or what they lack or whatever. So uh so I so I thought it was uh interesting talking to someone uh much older than me and being like, yeah, I feel you, you know, your feelings are valid, but they're wrong, blah blah blah. Um uh yeah, things, things, things, things exist out outside of uh you know your thoughts, your understandings, your your experiences.
SPEAKER_09I think it's even even beyond that, like things exist outside of how you think about yourself.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_09And I think that's something that's consistent with a lot of people that I that I know and that I've encountered that don't want to accept things that you know that I'll say reverberate from their actions or from how they present themselves or what this, that, and the others, like you have to understand that the well, I'll I'll you have to understand that just because you don't see this thing about yourself doesn't mean it's not there. It means you probably just blind to it. It's not within your field of vision. But there are other people who are standing in a complete circle around you looking at all of these things, and they can see them and they can tell you about them, but it's whether or not you're going to look when they tell you that it's there. It's like, oh, there's a bug on your back, just because you don't see what's on your back doesn't mean it's not there.
SPEAKER_01Shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_11I also like to say to anybody of older generation, as um Kazay was saying, for anybody that says, Oh, you know, this didn't exist around my time, I can point to you movies that talk about this exact same thing. Particularly the first one that came to mind is you were talking school days.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_11That was when they literally, right?
SPEAKER_06No, no, no. No, no, no. Sweet Jesus.
unknownOh my god.
SPEAKER_10The most amazing thing about school days and like is that it's so explicit.
SPEAKER_09It is like the way Spike Lee directs things and puts things together, it is like it it the most simplest of simpletons can understand these things. He says like the way he writes is so like direct. I'm trying not to use unnecessarily like arrogant words, it's so direct. And like you like, like if there's someone who said who's trying to say fuck you, like Spike me would just say fuck you. He wouldn't like have a whole like exegesis throughout the film saying this overarching metaphor of fuck you. He would just straight out say it. So people who grew up with school days who didn't see this bothered the shit out of me. Like, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_00Uh uh who's about to say something.
SPEAKER_08Mark was talking, right? Yeah, Mark was talking.
SPEAKER_11Well, uh, I was like I said, back to the school days conversation. I'm sorry, at the same time, my sister text me. But um, yeah, that's the call. I don't really talk about my sisters too much. But uh, but actually Dom Lee brought up a good point too, and I'll get to that in just a second. But yeah, anybody that's older will talk about all this didn't exist in our time. Nah, it started in your time. Like it started literally as soon as segregation was done. Like it was like as soon as segregation stopped, that's it. Yeah, we really like to start our whole segregation, which is it's sad to say that that this is where the time it started. Even then, if you go further back, you go to like the whole field nigga house.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I knew you were gone there, I was just waiting until you caught up.
SPEAKER_11We were both doing this field. Yeah, no, you was. You know you was.
SPEAKER_03He'd be doing that in the house sometimes. He'd be like, you know, you were sitting there in the house. I'm like, what the fuck is that?
SPEAKER_11Like it's like to me, it's funny. I won't be honest, to me is funny as hell. But in the same, yeah, it's screwed up because when you start to separate people in that way, and it's like you're literally saying that, oh, well, since you're darker skinned, you don't get the privileges that these lighter skinned people get. It's like, well, that's kind of fucked up for one, for multiple reasons, actually. But like it's like, like, but it's like, and because of that, if you look at it from that perspective, it caused a lot of uh a lot of dissension within the race for that, uh that idea alone. And then you, you know, and then like I said, she was what she said was um if you look at like even with my family, it was like the way you can the way that with me and my sisters, things were kind of rated, it's kind of screwed because it's like you have it as yeah, you have it as where like, okay, so I'm not the lightest. I have a sister that's mixed. And I have a sister that's lighter than me, but is not mixed. And then you have the darkest of us all, which is another one of my sisters. So we all we are like literally uh like a uh spectrum of color. Yeah, it's a spectrum of color. But it's like then the way that we're looked at by certain individuals whose name I will not call out in this moment, but it's like like this person would literally grade us damn near, it seemed like would grade us on like color, or like would not our color, but like how we acted which might be associated with our color spectrum. So it was like, so you know, it was it's a screwed up thought process by a lot of people. And it it stretches, it's it's a it's like even in this circumstance, it's kind of sick because the person is dead. But it was like, but it was it was a lot of families are going through stuff like that. Like for some families that have like kids of multiple shades and colors, and then they the lighter skin one might be put on this pedestal, and the dog is uh of them all will get shoved down to this basement like getting your cage, like it's like a screwed up way to say it, but it's like that was that's literally how some of these families are treating this, and it it that's really something that needs to get fixed amongst us as a culture, us as a color.
SPEAKER_03Um so many things that need to get fixed.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, like there's a lot, but it's one of those things, and sad truth, I think it's uh from what I've seen, it looks like it's getting better, but you know, that's from what I've depends on who's listening, as we said before.
SPEAKER_06So dying off as well.
SPEAKER_11So yeah, a lot of a lot of the people that mindset aren't dying off. So that and you know, I hate to think that's a good thing, but I don't know. So like you know, that's a good thing. Yeah, it is, it is. So it's like, but it is it's like as as time goes on, it's like even to the conversation um that Mosquitos was having, I actually knew a Dominican woman who would not date black women at all. She was half and half. And it was like, and she and like she would literally deny that black side altogether, even though she was like, I want to say, if not the doctor's complexion, she was somewhere between the doctor and Suchi's complexion, probably closer to Suchi's. But she would act like her black does not exist at all. And it was just wild to see that. And she was proud of it, like she would tell people not how big black is. It was like it's it's like she was proud. Doctor black guy off the side. Nope, you black.
SPEAKER_02That's crazy. The island is, I mean, I I don't know, you know, the statistics now, but back in the day, I I know the island is predominantly Afro, Afro-Dominican.
SPEAKER_12So uh the percentage of white Dominican is very slim over there. So it's just like like with like you not black though, really.
SPEAKER_02But also, uh going back to um shampoo bracelets when they were talking about one, the the one time that I did that I did tell a dude. This is this goes back to me uh talking about light-skinned people and being a shade shader.
SPEAKER_13I'm here being the shaded, shady shader as fuck.
SPEAKER_02But I uh this also happened on the yard at college, and one of my exes walked up. He he he is now an ex, but at the time he he didn't know that. Um, but he walked up to me and tried to approach me, and I was like, oh nah, like you you too light skinned, like like and I I wasn't serious, but it was it, he was he was very light bright, and I I don't usually date light, like right the way he was light bright. So I was like, mm-hmm you too light skin for me, like I I can I can tell already that you a fuck boy.
SPEAKER_03So I mean I mean just do carry that notion that they are either they're more than they're like they're like fuck boys. I mean that's like Martin jokes on me because I say I don't date dark skinned men. But um yeah, hold on, wait. Because every dark skin man that I've dated has dogged me. So I just rather mark it off. I didn't have those issues with people that were either marching or marching. I mean that's not like a reason. It has nothing to do with like, oh, I just think y'all are ugly. No, it has nothing to do with that. I've been treated badly by dark skinned men.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I can agree with that. But I mean, don't say you you you don't date them, you've dated them. I know it's in the past. I'm saying, well, if I'm I mean you're unclear now for the people. I was gonna say you shouldn't be dating light-skinned men, right after we part.
SPEAKER_08Next one's a grim reaper.
SPEAKER_00Um so one thing that go ahead, Miss Kittle, so you want to say something?
SPEAKER_02I'm sorry. So the the last thing I was gonna bring up that was funny about that whole thing is so this light-skinned uh fuck boy that I told I was I I ended up dating uh for all of college. And and uh fuck boy yeah, and he he definitely proved that he was a fuck boy, however, um one of our little cute we we thought it was the cutest shit, um, was calling each other a field nigga of a house nigga. And I'm definitely the field nigga because I was like, baby, you the one in the house. Get the lemonade.
SPEAKER_05Get the lemonade.
SPEAKER_03In all fairness to your point on that yard that we're talking about, um, it was some slim pickings and there was plenty of fuck boys. So I understand why you went that way.
SPEAKER_13Yes, that was we thought that shit was so cute and hilarious, and it really is trash. It's so trash.
SPEAKER_01I'm not trying to defend nor put anybody down, but you know, realistically, if you really think about most yards on not even just HBCU, but most campuses, most yards, the fuck boys kind of the the yard is their like what's the ground? That's where they dwell. Most of them aren't in class, unless they're in the uh they're in the uh eatery or wherever you eat your food, they're mostly on the yard, especially on a sunny day. That's where the fuck boys dwell. So if you was looking for them on the on the yard, you set yourself up.
SPEAKER_09This is the studious fuck niggas you gotta look out for. That's what you gotta find. What look out for? Yeah, you gotta the studious fuck boys are insidious as shit. Insidious.
SPEAKER_01I have I we're not going there because that's not what this episode's about. So I did want to say that um one of the things that I and it's kind of almost some a lot of what everybody has said is one of the things I think that is the biggest issue or the reason why shade and shadeism still exists or exists in general, is because all of all of us have been in some way, shape, or form conditioned into this uh thought process of a class system. Like there must be some level of one person is higher than another person who is higher than another person, whether it's based off of monetary, whether it's best off of real estate, whether it's best based off of some type of uh uh class system, uh like um you know, nobles versus um uh nobles versus uh what's the other type of person? Sorry. Um I more so meant peasants. There it is, peasants, nobles versus peasants. Sure. So uh in those different classes, and because there's uh there's a mindset that for you to feel in any way for certain people, feel any way, shape, or form better than somebody else, you must be classed above somebody else. You feel better because you know somebody is beneath you, and not everybody, I'm just saying that's how some people think. And kind of going back, I forget who said it, but going back to the the comment about since segregation was over, I think it was Kaze who said that segregation was over, so we had to find some type of class or discrimination within ourselves.
SPEAKER_08That was that was Mark, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01That was what Mark. Oh, it was Mark, sorry. So that was Shammy B.
SPEAKER_08Shammy Black, I gonna take his credit on his birthday another day.
SPEAKER_01Um, within or afterwards of segregation. Every time you look or every time you find yourself in a place, whether it's school, whether it's in the workplace, you always feel like most people feel like they have to put themselves in some type of class system. Oh, I'm smarter than this person. Oh, I make more money than this person, oh, I'm darker or lighter than this person, oh, I have, you know, uh I'm a dignitary or diplomat above this peasant or this middle class, you know, middle class versus lower class versus higher class. We're all kind of put into this like category-based system for other people to be classified either better or worse than other people. And if you really think about it, if we were all equal, then we there would be no talking points. Nobody would say I'm better than you, worse than you, I'm richer than you, so on and so forth. Um, well, can you give us an experience of where you experienced shadism?
SPEAKER_09Um I will say it's not been the strongest experience in my life, partly because um I grew up in Georgia in the area of Georgia that I grew up in, like we were predominantly black. And so it's not that it was hard to find someone like skin, but like when you it's like when everyone's a nigga, then you know everyone's a nigga to an extent. But um I will say one of the most interesting like encounters with shade is in my head of being like being accused of like having some sort of prejudice when it comes to like people who are lighter skinned or fairer skinned. Um I remember I was uh fairly recently like told that I have like something against like lighter skinned uh dudes or something like that. And it I uh the person who told me that it was it was very interesting the way they um presented it to me. Um but the the in its um sorry, I'm trying I'm having a hard time like verbalizing this in the word in the way that I that I want to. Um but it's mostly that that when it comes to like areas of attraction per se, because a lot of the a lot of I think uh a lot of the push pushes and a lot of the shadism and a lot of the understandings of it really happen when it comes down to you know who people are attracted to and maybe their quote unquote preferences, is despite how prejudicial those preferences may be, and people will not be able to truly acknowledge that, is that like archetypally speaking, historically speaking, like people who have been of lighter skin or fairer skin have always or most persistently been you know presented or explained as being more attractive because they are lighter. That's partly why light-skinned people have a lot of the reputation that they have. Even when um, you know, like people call light-skinned dudes pretty or whatever, it's partly because of the understanding or the historical context that, excuse me, the historical context that like women who were lighter skinned, women who were fairer skinned, women who were mixed with white whiteness who then thus had their skin be lighter, they were more attractive and they're considered more attractive. And any any performance of aesthetic that leaned closer to whiteness was deemed more attractive, and that's just kind of how that was. And it's not that it's something that we made up, it's something that came along that we inherited from the past. And and even and I kind of want to put it back on what Shammy P said, partly, and I apologize because it's his birthday, but but like the we it's not that black people had to find something else to, you know, you know, act post-segregation or whatever, it's something that was still that we were still for all intents and purposes still sick with. Like it was something that we still had to deal with, and it's something that we never really had a remedy with. But it's also, and when it came down to when and it's when we transitioned to different, you know, periods of like black pride and this, that, and the other, it's like, okay, we're all still black. Like, yeah, but we actually haven't remedied the the actual, you know, dissonance that had that came with the fact that we have been culturally assimilated into the understanding that people who have lighter skin or who have, yeah, people who have lighter skin are deemed more desirable or more worthy in some way, shape, or form. And um, I say all that to kind of like round it back to like I have because I am darker and because I always have been darker, it is not you know foreign to me to um expect others to find someone lighter than me more attractive and to be attractive to those people. And it's not that, and and it's and it was never that, you know, I resented lighter skinned folks, it was just that I had my expectation to of people and you know how they decided to acknowledge or you know um express their attraction and and the number of ways in which they did. And I would say that even, you know, for a lot of people around me, even the particular person that told me this, it was like um even when we, even when I got my own kind of like birds or you know, limited perspective of the folks that they were attracted to or the folks that they interacted with, there there was a lot of light-scan people in there. It's like, okay, well, you know, that there's and it's not so much as like, oh, okay, well, I don't have anything against them, but I'm also noticing, you know, a pattern, same pattern I've noticed in everyone else, as far as I've, you know, as long as I've existed on this world and been in someone who is of darker complexion. And um, I think it's I think at least in that regard, that's a largely a part of why um people's black people's skin color has always been a point of you know contention and conversation, is because no one truly wants to acknowledge their relationship to it in some way, shape, or form, regardless of whether it's healthy, unhealthy, or what have you.
SPEAKER_08I'd also like to add that uh right race race race aside, uh humans love boxes and humans love disparity. They if if if every if everyone in a room is playing Pokemon and it's one person with Digimon, they're gonna make fun of them. If everyone's short and it's a tall person, they're gonna point that out. It is for everything you can find a difference in uh human beings, will will find some issues, and they'll you know, and if they're they'll they'll decide they're better or they'll decide the other person's better and resent them for it. Yep, it's it is it will it will happen in every in every single way you could you could think it uh think it would, and it has. Um so yeah, that that that could that that's just like a baseline.
SPEAKER_06Can we all say that humans are trash? Sure.
SPEAKER_08Oh, but yeah, that goes without saying we you know we just get into the nitty-gritty.
SPEAKER_01Well, to sum up all of our points, I think I already did, but thank you, uh Black Mc the Black McCoy. First of all, thank you, Miss Skittles, for calling that out. I appreciate it. Um, so yeah, we believe that there's uh you know humans are trash. Uh there's a class system that uh people always feel like they need to have. Um Kaze is one of the prettiest light-skinned niggas that some women have ever seen. Um, shampoo bracelets, shampoo bracelets um has seen a lot of prejudice amongst the.
SPEAKER_08Never saw him again.
SPEAKER_11Never saw him again. She would have been, she would have been talking about doing a buzz it down.
SPEAKER_00Or the challenge was a thing.
SPEAKER_11She would have done a whole silhouette challenge. She would have done a couple challenges.
SPEAKER_01All right. Okay, but want to make sure we wrap it up. Thank you everyone for listening to this episode. Uh, we uh of course are gonna probably revisit this again in a different form or facet. But um, if you have any points uh or any of the experiences that you want to share with us or you want us to maybe talk about or mention on a previous uh on a follow-up episode, uh feel free to uh hit us up either within our mailbag, which is the blurred spectrum at umbralstarcade.com, or on any of our social medias, which are uh the blurred spectrum on Facebook and Instagram or Blurred Spectrum on Twitter. Or if you want to contact any of our panelists um individually, you can using their socials. Um started with myself, Suchino Shogun, at uh Umbral Starcade on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Twitch, and YouTube. Uh and Ms. Skittles.
SPEAKER_02Uh Ms. Skittles T R underscore cosplay on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.
SPEAKER_01And then there's um uh Sayone Cosplay, which is Cyana underscore cosplay, on Instagram and Syana Cosplay on Facebook. Thank goodness. All right, uh then there's the doctor. Uh also cyone does have a TikTok, but I don't know that one. Um so you have to find yourself. It probably is one of the two. Uh the black McCoy.
SPEAKER_09Um the black McCoy on um Instagram and the black mcoy cosplay on Facebook.
SPEAKER_01Shampoo Bracelets.
SPEAKER_03At shampoo bracelets on Instagram and at shammy b87 on Twitter.
SPEAKER_11And and also you can catch me uh shampoo shampoo bracelets on uh the Vadig. Discord. There you go, Discord. I was like a bowl.
SPEAKER_01Joe Tsg. Are we back yet? I knew it.
SPEAKER_00Kaze Shinryu.
SPEAKER_08Uh Kaze Shinryu uh on uh YouTube.
SPEAKER_00We're not doing the other one yet. What other one? That starts with a D? No, no, not yet. Okay, not ever. Oh, we'll still try.
SPEAKER_01All right, thank you everyone for listening. We will see you next week. Uh stay tuned for our um Valentine's Day editions, a special episode coming out on February 14th. Um, if you have a loved one or a cuffing, cuffed individual, please. You'll you'll want to listen to this on the 14th. It it will teach you about togetherness and love. And how to break how to end a relationship in a few words. Wow. I was gonna thank you for spoiling it. Anyway, bye. Be better humans. See ya. Be better.