SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Blurred Spectrum podcast. We have a very interesting topic to this week, this this episode, this, this episode of the podcast, yes. Uh, which is going to be talking about the movie that just recently came out, well, not recently, it came out last year, technically, but the movie uh by the title Soul, Disney's and Pixars, Soul. Um, a lot of things have been said about this movie um on the uh social medias uh about the uh anything ranging from the artistic uh presentation to the use of a certain uh race of individuals, uh, to the music that was uh presented, to the casting that was done. Uh so we want to give our feedback, our responses, our review. Uh so this is the episode of the blurred queue, specifically about soul. So I'm gonna first introduce our panelists, starting with myself, Suchino Shogun. We also have the Doctor. Kaze Shinryu. Start it again. Um Kaze Shinryu.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Me, me, me, me, me. Yo, yo.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Ms. Skittles.

SPEAKER_08 1:20

I don't know what that was the black McCoy.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

What do you do? Lady Legacy, and shampoo bracelets.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

I was about to say it's too um, so real quick, I'm gonna give a synopsis of each section um of the movie and uh let our panelists just kind of round robin. Nah, I don't like round robin this time. We're just gonna throw out our answers and give a general feedback to what we feel the movie was pretty much trying to tell us and what it was representing. So let's start with the first section. So the movie starts off 46-year-old Joe Gardner, which is voiced by Jamie Foxx, is a part-time middle school band teacher with a lifelong aspiration to becoming a professional jazz musician. He receives a phone call from one of his former students, Curly, uh, Curly voiced by Quest Love. Uh, he's offered the opportunity to work and play in a jazz quartet with one of the artists he most admires, uh, by the name of Dorothea Williams, also voiced by Angela Bassett. I'm just stacked movies. It's gorgeous. Uh, after meeting the band and enchanting, uh playing an enchanting uh piano rendition, he's quickly accepted as their new pianist, high on the excitement of nailing the new gig, he makes his way through the city of New York on a phone conversation, um, just kind of wandering the city eventually. He avoids a car, but then ends up falling down a manhole. And that's when the movie begins and we get our uh opening credits. So, starting from that point, starting from that depiction from the trailers that you've seen before, from that starting opening montage, um you barely know enough about the background of Joe, but you know exactly what his life is talking about. We've, you know, seen the principal kind of give him his full-time check or his full-time uh acceptance offer. Uh, we see him talk to you know, Dorothea. Uh, we saw his, you know, his embodiment of music when he's playing the piano at the jazz club. So give us your first thoughts, panelist, on uh the beginning, the entry level into this movie that you don't even have the title at first. You don't even know what's called Soul. What are your first thoughts?

unknown 3:36

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Uh I would say, because I, you know, I had to rewatch it and such. I would say I it gave a real nice James Bond beginning before you even see, like, you know, the opening title, whatever, to give you a synopsis of how this is pretty much gonna go. Um, I enjoyed his, I guess his introduction that he gave, how he got interested in music and how he got lost in it. And I think the music or the piano playing was by who plays the Gardner again? Yeah, Jamie Foxx. Jamie Foxx. I if anything, I imagine Jamie Foxx is the one that's playing the piano. So really nice to see like the eclectic, you know, how jazz introduced him, how he gave the backstround background story of that, and then finally getting his big break of you know, actually performing with one of his, you know, idol heroes and such like that. So it gave a real good synopsis that his life, what he thinks is that his life is about to finally start, and then this tragedy happens, and then it just goes.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Even at that point, we don't know if it's a tragedy. Tragedy, all we know is he found out, fell out a manhole and it went dark.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

It's pretty tragic to find to fall down a man.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

True, true. I mean, Tom has done it and he ain't dead, but you know, continue.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

But uh, yeah, I think, and I like the I genuinely like the part where uh one of the girls of the class, I forget her name, she gets lost in her uh the playing of the trombone, I think it was. And she's trombone uh uh I get way to like how arts are important for like in school and such like that, and how teachers are good inspiration and such like that. So I I enjoyed the beginning of it. It gave a good, you know, at least a good sampling of what's to come.

SPEAKER_07 5:26

Yeah, I please I agree. Um, I I I liked um how they gave us uh essentially like a quick backstory. Um and and it also kind of speaks to like you never know, like for teachers, example, growing up, I you know, I a teacher is a teacher growing up. So you never you never know what what their real life goals, um, and I don't want to say real life goals because some people might just want to be a teacher, but other people, other people probably, you know, they had probably had you know very big dreams and aspirations um before becoming a teacher. So um I thought it was like it was nice to see that that aspect of his life. Like I didn't just want to become a band teacher, um, even though I'm passing along, you know, my love for music to these kids, but I I have goals too, like I have dreams um too. So I think it was nice. That was nice to see.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Um for me, I'll go ahead and a little backstory where I like all the little details they touched on with you know his personal motivations and how you know art was, you know, its big influence was its big influence in his life and whatnot. And especially in that opening stage, you can see a lot of little touches of that and like references to you know, like art to the background of his room and whatnot. And so I love those little details. Maybe the only thing that you know I disliked knowing that was because the you know trade into this next stage, which I will talk about, you know, next, but because that happens really five minutes or something into the movie, it's like, oh, you get this really nice contained backstory for five minutes, and then you mostly put that aside for the next you know 20 or like what 30 minutes or something, and then we're gonna come back to it later. But so it is that kind of a little it's it feels a little strange how that's structured where oh, here's this great backstory, and then now for something completely different for a while. But it's a little jarring. But no, I loved how they I loved what was given to us in that backstory though, or in his introduction.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Kazai, you look like you have something to say.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Uh I guess uh bouncing off what the doctor said, it I think it it served as a uh I I guess uh you know it served its purpose as a somewhat basis for what was going on, but also as a a great misdreck. Um I mean, and unfortunately what what we got instead wasn't uh it wasn't better than what we what we expected. But um but it certainly uh they they they certainly was uh leading you down a certain path and intending to go in a different in a different direction.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Um black and white.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

Um I absolutely agree with Kase. The movie was a joy from start to finish. Um they they did an amazing job with kind of alluding to this kind of more potentially depressing narrative from from jump, because it's like, oh, okay, well, we know it's about we know it's soul, and we know we know it's about someone who is a soul, but we're under the impression, at least, you know, based on the you know, the trailers or whatever, that this is someone who is dead. They're gonna they are they're more than likely gonna stay dead, or you know, there's some like at least that was my perspective when it came to the movie before I actually saw it. But I was still curious because it was a black result.

SPEAKER_08 9:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

So my view on it um when the movie started, it kind of gave me um kind of a coach Carter type of you know, intro into this African-American high school or this multicultural high school, uh, where you know, uh, from the first couple of scenes, it's like, you know, they may not have a lot of money, or it may be kind of like a public school or charter school that, you know, they may get most of their funds. I was I was broadening what I believe was going on. I was trying to create the backstory myself because they didn't give me much before that. So it was kind of like you look at the walls, you look at the instruments, you look at the students who are in the class. It was like it's this band room of students, almost like a sister act type of thing, where you're trying to take these I can't plays to a you know high high school national band type of feel. That's what it seemed like it was about to do with that initial scene. Um, the you know, students, uh, the uh the specific student that Lady Legacy was talking about, you could see her kind of um, it reminds me of a lot of the videos you see on social media of that one trombone player that kind of just gets lost in the sauce and just you know, playing, and everybody else is like, damn, oh, for real. And I I I like the moment where uh it it it reminded me uh the moment where she was playing and she got lost in it, and then the students were kind of like laughing because she got lost in it, and the the instructor was like, Well, no, no, no, no, you don't want to laugh. You know, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to enjoy it, you're supposed to become one with it, you're supposed to get lost in your music. That's how you know you like what you're doing, and that led him into explaining his life story, his uh his the time when he fell in love with music, specifically with the piano. And it it it helped me understand, not necessarily see his past, but at least understand who this person is as it pertains to music. He had a moment which changed everything that made him fall in love with it, and whatever this piece of the movie is, whatever he's trying to tell me, I know that his love, his passion is music or piano, and I need to hold on to that for the rest of the movie. At least that's what I got from it. So uh moving on. So then the next point, we see him drop down the manhole. Uh, it gives us the opening credits. We now know the name of the movie is Soul. Um, when we see the next color on the screen, it is Joe in his um soul form, if we want to call it that. Um, and he finds himself on an escalator or conveyor belt on his way to the great beyond, which um, if anybody has uh hung out at the Shamflue Bracelets uh uh reside in uh Maryland, it's almost like staring at bugs going into the bug zapper. Just zip zip it's just it's a gorgeous time, it's fun for all. Anywho, um, but uh at that moment, uh, as he's on the escalator, he speaks with a couple of the other souls that are there and realizes his life is over, he had died. Um, and his his chances and opportunities of potentially performing with Dorothea Williams and everyone else, the the point where he thinks his life is actually going to start, is has been has been completely sacrificed. It's over, it's not going to happen. Um, he meets the Ethereal, he meets Jerry, the Ethereal Council, counselor, sorry, uh, to the unborn souls, Jerry. Um, in the great before, Joe learns about where souls gain their personality traits before finding the portal that leads them to earth. Um, at the same time, an accountant by the name of Terry notices that the count for souls in the great beyond is off. Uh, unable to return through the portal, Joel stumbles uh into becoming a mentor for unborn souls to help them find their spark so they can receive their badge to be re uh to be born and sent to earth. Uh Joel steals a random uh name tag um and plots to steal the badge from an unborn soul he will mentor so that he can get back to his own life so he can make his gig. So this is the next section of the movie. We've now kind of uh referencing what uh Kaze and the doctor said, we've moved from this uh starting point of the movie to this completely shift in I don't even I won't say animation per se, but colors and feels if um you know Sayone Cosplay was here, the entire artistic view scope of the movie has now shifted. Um the style has changed, but the colors are different. Now we have bright uh greens and reds and blues. We're in this kind of teletubby-ish type land uh with these counselors and these unborn souls. What is the feeling we're getting from this? Um between Jerry's uh Jerry, between the Jerry's and Terry, uh between the plot that Joe has, um, between how people get their personalities um and the different uh videos for the mentors. What did we feel about this section of the movie?

SPEAKER_07 14:02

So I thought it was I thought it was uh a very interesting concept and and and cute and also funny at the same time because it's like like he's he's like what one, what the fuck just happened? Like I like my life about to begin and now I'm dead, like what? So so one, I I will say I I was not expecting him to die. I will say that part. Um it that completely caught me off guard. Um, I was like, oh shit. Like I knew, like, like uh the black McCoy said, I knew like the movie was about somebody dying, but I didn't know it was gonna be that my man, my man's on the break died from from falling. I was like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Um it was very disconnected.

SPEAKER_07 14:53

But um when he was on the escalator, like going up, I like I thought that um to me, I thought that was hilarious, especially who's for somebody who who unexpectedly died. I can only imagine like if if I mean if the if that was real, like if you unexpectedly died, you would probably be doing the same thing. Hold up, excuse me. Um can I talk to the manager because I don't feel like like this is uh this is proper, like this is not good and proper. I need I need I need hello, yeah. So um, so I I thought that part was cute. And then and then the whole concept of how how souls get their personalities, like finding the spark and and having a mentor, like it was it was just so interesting. Like it is that like of course you know you don't know, but it's like, oh my god, what if that's real? Like what that like what if that's how we do things, uh, you know, wherever or whatever you believe in. So it's just the whole concept was was very new to me and interesting. Um, and I think that's what why I enjoyed this this section so much because it just took my mind places uh as a creative, like, oh my god, like what like what if? Like um, so um, and the and when I say that Jerry's and Terry was fucking hilarious. Terry is Terry the biggest hater at work. The biggest real life hater at work, dog.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

Oh man. That wants great people know what they're already supposed to do.

SPEAKER_07 16:35

Everybody knows everyone. Everybody knows of Terry, dog. So um, so yeah, I mean, I really I really enjoyed the whole con concept of how they how they did that. It just it just took my mind places that it was new, it was new and unexpected. Uh unexpected and like, damn, my man's just died, but like I I'm okay with it because I'm trying to see where this goes.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Also, like the interesting part is like we it's like we're all we're under the immediate impression that he dies, but as I'm thinking about it more, like he because he didn't actually I guess it's like they they frame the film in such a way, like since he didn't actually make it to the great beyond, his soul was basically still in some some degree of limbo. And so his body was actually in the coma. So he couldn't pass on until his soul passed on. But while his soul was in all these different places, you know, um specifically not where it was supposed to be, regardless of where it was, his body was still somehow it seemed like I guess his body, the concept is like his body was still somehow tethered to it. And like his overall his life could not, you know, it couldn't, it couldn't, I it couldn't move on in any way, shape, or form if his soul didn't somehow make its way to the destination it was supposed to be. Regard and they set it up to where there's only two places it can be, that it's supposed to be, where your body can, you know, fully go in the direction it's supposed to go. It's not your soul's either supposed to be in your body or it's supposed to be in the grave beyond. If it's anywhere in between any of either of those two, you know, two endpoints, then your your body's essentially like in a coma. She was in a coma, and no one knew what the hell was wrong with it.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

I don't completely agree to that, only because the mentors that were in the great before, um, their bodies were gone. Like a lot of them understood, like the old lady who was on the escalator or the conveyor belt, she you know, was telling, kind of explaining to Joe, well, you're dead. Um, I lived, you know, 90 or 80 or 70. I think she said 90, 60 years, something like that, or 106 years.

SPEAKER_09 18:52

106.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

There it is, 106 years, and she knew she was dead. She knew her body had either been buried or is in the hospital, they're about to do something with it, but she knew she was gone, about to go to the grave before. But it seemed like the mentors understood that they were dead and were about to help the next souls, and their bodies had already something had already been done to them um prior to that.

SPEAKER_07 19:17

So I think the issue there is that to become a mentor, they had to choose you. So because he wasn't chosen, he kind of just like yeah, so that shit. So the people who have become mentors, we didn't really see that part. Like, how did they become mentors? Right, did they go to the graveyond and then become mentors because they were selected? Or like you know, like how how does that even work? Um, so I I do agree with uh the Black McCormick because it was like you you never passed. So so now your your body with which his body was in the hospital, you're in a coma. Like, because we don't one, we you're not you're your soul's not in your body. So where are you? You out and about, you and you wasn't you weren't purposely selected to be a mentor, right? You kind of like snuck your way in there, bitch.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

So like Jerry said, he cheated. Yes, that hurt when he said that.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

He's like, Joe, you cheated, but it's like oh, it was appropriate though, because he he basically cheated death.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Did he cheat death?

SPEAKER_04 20:30

I mean he eventually did, but I mean, but he also wasn't like he wasn't dead, but he also didn't die. Like his soul didn't go to the great beyond, he eventually made his way back to his body or a body at a certain point, and then he eventually got you know to his body, and then you know they they definitely played loose with the whole the whole concept of whether he was actually dead and just let letting him go back.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

He didn't have any major injuries, but but but but but he got hit hard enough to get knocked out of his body, but his body still worked perfectly fine when he jumped back into it.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Uh I guess a Disney movie. I think that also like presents a lot of other questions. It's like, well, the woman, let's say we use the old woman who was like 106 as an example. She may have accepted that she was dead already. I mean, she lived 106 years, she she knew exactly what the fuck was going on, and so she just you know accepted her fate. And she and I think I think that it's I want to say it's safe to infer that um the the stairway to heaven was um or the great beyond, which I think I also kind of appreciated that they didn't kind of ascribe this as like uh any particular they didn't add any religious connotations like this is just the afterlife, it's the great beyond. It's you know, this is the area that you are in when your soul is no longer on earth.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

We're rebranding.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

Yeah, rebranding. Um on that stairway is actually that transition period. To the great beyond, like if they not actually dead, but not alive either. But he and since he never made it to the great beyond, and he just went back to the great before, it's like he was still tethered to that in-between.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

No, I mean I agree on that point. I was more so just talking about the the mentors specifically. Does that mean that the mentor all the other mentors were in the coma? Because they specifically told the mentors you're gonna mentor these new souls, help them find their spark, and then once you're done that job, you're gonna go to the great beyond. So yeah, so I was just saying, does that mean that all the mentors' bodies were still in a coma, or does that mean they were all buried, cremated, dead already, and they just took the souls of the mentors and they were in this kind of in-between space because they were helping the next souls? That's what I was just saying. It's more so I was talking about they didn't really explain whether or not the mentors' bodies were dead and gone. They were just kind of helping all souls.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

Especially given the people that they use, like Mother Teresa, um Muhammad Ali, um, Galilee, like they the figures that they mentioned, they've been dead and gone for a long time. And um, during the ceremony, when they after people, you know, found their spark or whatever, they eventually, you know, they went back to the great beyond after they completed their task of helping these souls find their spark. Right. So they were already dead. They just pulled. It's like I think it's just the they leave room for you to infer that they pulled them from the great beyond. Uh they never said that they pulled them. That's what I mean. They leave room for you to kind of infer, but they don't say it specifically. I think it's one of those things that you can kind of safely assume because it wouldn't make sense to to think, at least I don't think it would make sense to think that they pulled these souls, like Muhammad Ali and Mother Teresa, people who we know have been dead for a long time, um, to continue to be mentors.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Well, they specifically said that they assigned those those souls to 22 because 22 had been around. She's 22 said they've been around for centuries.

SPEAKER_09 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

So it could have happened that while these people, these you know, historic figures are dying, that they were assigned to 22 one after another. So versus them being pulled from the great beyond, as they were dying, they helped or tried to help 22, and then they were sent either to somebody else or to the great beyond, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

But I also think, but also so when they introduce the the zone, like they do introduce this concept that human beings have an ability to re to kind of make their position be in this ethereal space, but they also never allow human beings, allow those living beings who are in the zone to find their way to the great beyond or to find their way to the to the great before. There's no way for them to get there other than being dead.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

All right. Uh Kaze, the doctor, did you have um views on that particular section of the movie?

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Uh I honestly just thought like the uh, you know, the transition was a bit enjarring, I suppose. Uh I really like the I guess art design. This has like, you know, the soles are like just little amorphous, you know, blobs wait waiting to for you to imprint you know, meaning and purpose on them versus uh versus the uh you know the lines of the of the what what they call those uh the line people? The were the instructors or uh the counselors?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Jerry?

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Yeah, the people like Jerry, the people who are working, working, not the not not the like not like the mentors.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

The counselors.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

Okay, yeah, yeah, the counselors. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love I love like the just like almost like the math, you know, mathematical, like they were just I I I I like I like the distinction between them and the souls and how like just just the way they they were made just kind of implied that they don't they're not they're not bound by the same rules that we are. Um and uh you know, and I also like the you know, just uh the system that they explained and laid out. It was uh interesting and it was fun to uh you know try to guess guess where they were going with it.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

I really enjoyed that they they explained the great before as what is essentially a theoretical construct. Like it's you thought it is one of those things that doesn't exist but does exist. Like there's no there's no real form to any of the things that are there, and even the space itself is just all it's like they it's like they didn't they called it nothingness without calling it nothingness.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Is that Alc?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

And you know, for me, um yeah, I definitely liked the uh I think they did a good job of using, you know, or basically showing this place as very otherworldly in a lot of different ways, with like the color scheme being this pastel, you know, um bubbly, you know, really, you know, kind of like um, you know, over the top, like almost unnaturally, you know, sacharin patterns. And you know, I like the almost Picasso-esque, you know, style that the mentors and the counselors were drawn in and whatnot. So I thought that that was the way they it really did add a lot to this other you know, universes, you know, the great before and whatnot. Um I do agree that it was the transition from the intro to that was really, really jarring. And it it did come like feeling like, oh, you know, I get it's supposed to be you know a surprise, but it did feel like, okay, although it's like two different movies in a way. I it's yeah, it definitely you know it surprised me in a way that you know I think probably could have been a little bit smoother. Um, but no, I really did like it though, and I definitely enjoyed it. I'm guessing we'll talk a little bit more about like transformation tropes later, so I'll probably hold that for now.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

But yeah, I guess a quick question. Do y'all think so? I know the the I know y'all said like the transition was kind of jarring, but do you think that it was intentional or like a good thing in some ways? Because you you are in because the way he transitioned into not being alive was in and of itself pretty jarring. Like he he's at the height of this emotion and his ecstasy, and then he falls down a manhole, and then he's like, Where the fuck am I?

SPEAKER_02 28:22

And like I I don't think it's completely bad. You know, I don't think it's 100% you know awful. I think there is some benefits in the surprise factor and whatnot. Um, I think some of the issues that came up for me were that one, like it happened so early into the movie where we had these like I think we when I was watching it, um we timed it, and it was something like five or six minutes of before that, and then you jump into this. So, and you're in you know the great beat the great before and whatnot for the next 30 minutes or so. So when you come back to Earth, like they you have to reorient yourself a lot. I think that's you know was part of the issue that came from that, where you know it was such a sudden transition that you know that you almost that first that first few minutes you really have to spend some energy getting back into it once you've gotten back from that transition. Um that makes sense. But I think that's one thing that kind of came this comes from having a transition that's that sudden.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Yeah, I think uh I I think their their transition was, you know, it was it was certainly purposeful and it definitely uh kind of you know served the narrative they were kind of tell. I think my issue with it, uh uh aside aside from it being like I had to I I had to like assume what was what was going on. I feel I f I feel like I feel like uh cartoons have done a pretty good job of letting you know that somebody ain't here no more. And so the so the just just even the conversation we just had to figure to because we we were like conflating death and coma and and precisely trying to decide what the hell being on this escalator actually meant. It was a it was a very it was just a very like weird, confusing like thing. But I think but I think my my core issue was I was uh really I guess I was more interested in this like this like black teacher and his struggles and then we got yanked into this afterlife and that and that ultimately and it was bright and bubbly and interesting and new, but I don't think that it was as compelling as the story we were yanked away from. And and and and and you know, it was I I felt you know I felt like hungry, just like just just I just wanted to know about you know his life, his family, what he's about to go through, how he's gonna handle this class, and uh and uh you know, and we we spent a whole lot of time just kind of in this afterlife, which which I felt like is kind of par for the course for like a Pixar movie versus seeing like black people do black things living black lives. That's like that's kind of you know, I much I much would have preferred that personally.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I agree with that as well, you know. So I definitely uh it seemed like we got immersed in a lot of elements of black culture in that really concentrated intro, and then it just kind of stopped for 30 minutes, you know, or 35 minutes or something. And then you come back to it later, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah, what Cena Fain is about it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

My view on that is probably the exact opposite. Um, I and I think it's probably because I came into watching the movie uh based off of the responses and I guess view personal views of a lot of the panelists and other people on social media about their personal expectations versus what they were given when they were watching the movie. A lot of people said, Oh, I was expecting, you know, I see all this black art and I see all these black people doing black things, and oh, then Tina Fae's in his body, and oh, then this is happening, this is happening. So I I try my best whenever I watch anything or interact with anyone to give everything a blank slate. Uh, but it was very difficult because I had all of those pre um pre-conversations and pre-notes that were given to me or you know, stated in front of me. So when I came into the movie and I, you know, like I said before, it was kind of like a sister act kind of coach Carter type of intro. Then we hit the manhole, and it uh, as the the doctor said, it kind of gave you uh a jarring, you know, switch to this different um color aesthetic. Um I do agree with uh the Black McCoy about the fact that it was because it was a sudden death, that's why I felt like that it was necessary to have a sudden jarring kind of change in, you know, from life to afterlife or life to pre-life or you know, whichever we're talking about. Um but I felt like, you know, I don't want to go into the my overall view of the movie, but I do feel like it was necessary for the movie to have this juxtaposition between the two. It you know, gave us this intro story and it left you anticipating and wanting to go back to it. Now, if they never returned to it, then I would be upset. But the fact that it went from this initial storyline and then switched to this um different outline, couldn't know what that shit. Um, it went to this different, thank you. It went to this different outline of souls, pre-life, um, the great beyond, the great before, um, and all those things. I I felt like it made me try to figure out like, okay, what are you trying to tell me? What is it that was so important that you needed to take me out of this movie that I'm now starting to, even though it was, I mean, and think about it's five minutes, as you said, five to six minutes that we were, you know, getting absorbed into, and then you snatch us out of it and you throw us into this new one. Literally, I for me, I felt like it did it. I I felt like I was becoming more with Joe's experience because it did that. I was snatched out of his life that I was now accepting and acknowledging, and now I've been thrust into this different view of this movie. Now I'm like, why am I here? Why am why is he a soul? Why are we dealing with all these new things? Why aren't I still in the storyline that I was initially a part of? So I personally felt like that snatch, that jarring effect, it helped me further understand and feel and be one with, not one with, but feel the experience that Joe was going through. At least for me. That's my personal opinion about it.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Well, and to add to that, what is more? I think that um we we didn't get, we got the snippets of Joe's life that we were supposed to get, right? Like when we go through, when we when they go through the whole, not the not the hall of everything, but when they go through just kind of like this the the museum of his life, it's rather unimpressive. I mean, he's even completely underwhelmed because he remembers his life so much differently than it actually was. And he sees it, he's he's actually depressed by the fact that he didn't live his life in the way that he thought he did. Like his music was everything to him, but his life was also very painful. It was a lot of struggle and it was a lot of you know failure that he didn't anticipate actually having to see in that way. So, part of the reason we didn't get that bird-eye view into his life that I think the doctor and Kazu were talking about is because we would have been bored with it, just as bored and depressed about it as Joe was. And part of the overall story, not to get too far ahead about you know the things that we're talking about, is to really see that despite what you know what what he makes of his life and what it was, like it was still you know valuable or it was still on there's still time to do something about it. There's still, you know, there's still something worthwhile there.

SPEAKER_07 36:16

So I I agree. Um, I think I think it was important for us to see that okay, try not to go too far ahead, but I think it was it was very important to to the viewers to see Joe's life um from an outside perspective, not from Joe's perspective. Because to him, you know, he did all these great things with music, but when he saw it from the outside looking in, it was sad. It was very sad and depressing. And it it's almost um it it basically kind of again, I feel like I'm getting ahead, but it basically kind of lets you know, like just because just because you feel like you you're meant for one thing, like your goal in life is is what you feel your purpose is, is not necessarily true. Is it like and you don't have to just chase one thing your whole entire life? Um, and that's that's what Joe did. Um, and and only realized it after he he almost died. So it's just uh it's just um it's just kind it's sad, it's sad to to be in that position after the fact and then be like, damn, I really didn't. I really didn't do anything with my life because I was I was so stuck on you know what I thought my whole purpose was, what what I felt in my heart was the only thing that meant anything to him, which was his music.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

So moving forward with at least a story, which our panelists, of course, have tried their best not to kind of spill into, which is fine. Um, so uh shortly after he steals the badge and he is, you know, uh kind of saddled, or he's given the responsibility of soul 22, which is voiced by Tina Faye that everybody's been alluding to. It's this new smaller soul uh who has avoided going to Earth for thousands of years. Um, from the moment that they knew about Earth to now they have seen countless people's experiences, countless people's lives. They've been in the hall of everything, which is a place where souls are shown different activities and talents and sports and uh uh uh sciences and different types of things to try and establish what it is, you know, what Earth has and what could potentially interest them while they're there. One of the main reasons they state in the in the movie is that the hall of everything is supposed to incite the spark that enables a soul to want to go down to earth. Um, so while they're there, he saddled with uh 22, and they come up with this plot of okay, let's complete the earth pass that you have to complete to go down to earth. And instead of you going, I'll go. You don't want to go, but I want to get back to my body. Let's make this plan. This is when they see this what's supposed to be a lifetime achievement hall or montage, and instead they see these different points in Joe's life that he assumes were amazing, fantastic, wonderful. But from as uh Miss Skittles was saying, from an outside viewer's perspective, was uh most of them were sad points, no's, objections, ridicules. Um, I think one of the key points that Joe does stumble across is the um time where he saw he saw jazz music for the first time, uh and he showed that to 22, as well as when he gets in when he gets into the zone himself, which he of course didn't know was called that at the time. So shortly after that, um they decide uh 22 uh because of the failed attempts uh of trying to find their spark to finish that pass, instead, uh he um 22 takes Joe to the zone, uh, which is a place between the spiritual and the physical. It's uh where humans pretty much get in the zone, uh, which you've heard of when you're either musically playing, when you are you know getting into the zone with your work, getting into the zone with sports. Whenever you lose yourself in a passion or a thrill or an excitement or a feeling, that is when you lose yourself into the zone and you reach this place between the spiritual and the physical. So uh Joe with this, uh sorry, 22 takes Joe to Moonwind, uh, who is a uh traveling uh astral spirit, uh or sorry, an individual who's trap who is a traveling astral spirit in the zone uh to try and find a way to connect Joe back with his body to send him back to Earth. Um when they find Moonwind, they start this uh kind of ritual, this chanting ritual, where they uh he has Joe try to focus on his body, figure out where he is. This is where Joe figures out that he's his body is still alive. It's inside of the hospital, in a hospital bed in a coma. Um, and Moonwind explains, well, all you have to do is focus on it and you can eventually connect. Of course, as every Disney movie uh or Pixar movie takes place, some hijinks incur and ensue, sorry. And um, in the process of trying to get back to his body, um, within this portal, within the zone, uh both Joe and 22 find themselves launched into this portal. And instead of Joe finding himself in his own body, he finds himself in the body of a therapeutic cat, which was sitting on his lap, while um 22 is uh uh winds up inside of Joe's body. So before we go any further into the movie, which is you know kind of uh back on earth, uh, I think this is one of the parts of the movie that uh most of our panelists had the most problem with, not just the panelists, but a lot of different people on the uh interwebs, uh, which was um uh kind of going into uh what was the word you used, the doctor? Transitionism? Oh, I'm sorry. Transformation tropes. Transformation tropes. Can you explain um what you mean and what is the issue with it in this particular section of the movie?

SPEAKER_02 42:31

So there are a lot of different transformation tropes, but the ones that you know really apply here. So it's the classic, you know, black people who are the leads in you know movies or whatnot, especially like Pixar style movies or animated movies, getting transformed into something else and being in that form of the majority of the movie. I think the other classic example would be like Princess and the Frog, where Kiana is spending most of that movie as a frog, like which is unusual for Disney princesses, you know. So, you know, and of course, the issue with that is that it's cut off as, oh well, making this black character more palatable to white audiences by essentially visually erasing their blackness. I think that's really what's cool. Um I went to watch this with my partner, and he really did not like the movie because of this program. And uh, and it was specifically, and he even said, like, that's why I know the timing of Ways Transform, he was like, well, let's see how long it takes before he's a ghost. You know, and he was like, okay, six minutes, you know, and he really could not get past that as far as the movie, and it just output the whole thing for him. You know, with two phase um the ghost that she voice acted, 22 body, it adds another layer onto the transformation scope where it's like this white woman voicing this black, you know, it's carrying this black body, so it's also a little more complicated. So it's overall, it's not really the It touches a lot on this issue of you know black people have to be represented in ways of how to look white audiences, and often that means some erasure of you know either their blackness or the minishing of their blackness and whatnot. Um, personally that was a concern that I had going into this, especially with the transformation sequence and whatnot. I think overall the movie hits enough black culture that you know I think it kind of okay, so it relies on this trope that's problematic, but it also does showcase black culture in a lot of very meaningful ways. But yeah, transformation tropes are usually not a great look for, you know, I mean, really any minority group, whether that's black people, you know, Asian, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Okay. Uh, did anybody else have oh good Lady Legacy?

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Oh yeah. So not gonna lie, the Princess and the Frog thing kind of hit a you know sour note because I was like I I was hoping that was not the smoking gun of this movie to like hoping that this was not gonna be another Princess and the Frog situation, even though love that movie, love that it gave, you know, you know, to the culture, whatever, whatever, but really did it kind of a little bit not. But I I would say, because I was talking with Shogun about this, I think yesterday or whatever have you, that it doesn't necessarily give the same Princess and the Frog type of S thing, even though it kind of does. It it gives a perspective to, I guess, what do we say? Like having someone walk in someone else's walk a mile in your shoes. Walk a mile in the shoes. So it wasn't just, oh, this soul trying to get an experience of earth. It was basically Paul Spade Spade, a white woman getting a chance to walk a mile in a black man's shoes. That's how I kind of saw it that way, because it wasn't just, oh, we're gonna whatever, whatever. She had a chance to live his life a little bit, see the struggles of uh not just you know being human, but being someone of that particular race. But they didn't dip too much into that because that's not what Disney does.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yes, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

You know, yeah, but she but getting a chance to actually see that perspective of someone who doesn't have the most exciting life of someone who has something that he's looking forward to, something that he wants to achieve and such like that. But it does have that trope that kind of sours it. But if looking at it from that perspective of walking a mile of somebody's shoes, you can see that it's not that they're erasing the the culture that they're inhabiting, they're trying to see what they see, appeal to that type of nature of that, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 46:56

So I'm sorry to if I'm not interjecting, but it made me want to ask. So, do you think that the benefit of this film and the way in which they kind of frame the narrative is uh is um is beneficial insofar as like it allows people to see that, or at least yeah, it allows audiences to see that life is worth living when you see when you live it through blackness. Because I'm thinking about you know the movie, and I'm thinking about you know this particular trope and what happened in TFA, like they them trying to make this a disembodied soul with you know, saying like this this like featureless soul is like race, gender, all the things like um and put it into this bot the body of this black man and have it live his life, so to speak, and have audiences see that the lives that black people lead and the the way in which we you know interact with each other and our culture and so on and so forth, it is something that's beautiful and it's something that inspires the the drive to want to engage in this activity called life.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

I think with that, yes, and also to add on to that, it's more of being in this body, not only because the way the way 22 originally thought of Earth is how I think, you know, white people think of certain things in general. My perspective is the only thing I'm going off of. I have no other, you know, quorms or whatever, whatever, but you're getting now the chance to see how someone else lives, not just basing it off of your one opinion that you only saw from the outside looking in. You're actually living in it, so you'll be able to somehow embrace it and see how this person lives instead of just having an already formed opinion from something that you've never experienced in your own-day life and just saying, I don't want to do this because I've already seen it and it's not, that's not my teeth, it's not my spirit, it's not my ministry. But actually being able to put yourself literally in that person's shoes and not just have an outright opinion, but actually living that. That is more of a perspective of giving someone a chance to see someone else's life and culture and all the other such, and not just write it off of something that they've already seen before, just at a face value from the outside looking in, but actually being in it. So that's what I think about that. Ms.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Gibbdles, you're about to say something.

SPEAKER_07 49:35

Um, so I I agree with um Lady Legacy's. I so I I saw the the arguments online uh about the the trope and everything. And and while again, while I agree to a certain extent, uh the just the way I perceived it was was definitely the same as her perspective. Um and then while I I know it is important that we take in accountability like the voice actors specifically chosen for the movie, when I'm also taking into account the the dynamic of that specific character's design. So this soul um was was given a number, um, and had not been born yet. So we don't know um if the soul was going to be male or female or black or brown or white or anything. Um, so I I took that heavily into accountability because this is this is an individual that has not been born yet. So we have no idea whether uh yes, a white woman did voice the character, however, we have no idea that that uh character would have been born white. So or a woman, right? So it just um so that's something that I took heavily into account when watching the movie. Um and and and again, like I said, I agree with uh Lady Lady Legacy's on the the perspective of walking in the shoes of uh a black man um in his life. Uh and and uh what is it 22? Is it 22? Yeah, so 22 literally had no desire to be born until until they walked, until they spent this time in this black man's life, and and and just the simple things that Joe took for granted made them want to be to be human. Right. Um and and and I think that was uh a very important takeaway um that this individual walked in a black man's life and still wanted to be human. And that's something that I really loved about that. And that was that was just the way I perceived it. And I know you know everybody's perception is different, but that's how I left when I looked at it when I was watching this movie. That with all the shit that does go on um in the world when it comes to black and brown people, this soul still wanted to be a part of the universe after spending time in black man shoes.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

And to add just a little bit on that as well, like going back uh to what Ms. Kittle said about it not being it not being certain that it's going to be born a woman or born a white woman or white person, is at when uh Joe first met 22, Joe uh 22 specifically, well, Joe specifically said, Why do you sound like a middle-aged or old-age white woman? And 22 explained it's based off your perceptions. The same thing with Jerry. Jerry said, you know, I could explain to you what my name is, but your human mind wouldn't be able to understand it. So we're seeing it in a way that you can comprehend it. So the way that 22's voice was coming off was something that Joe's uh, I don't say conscience, but his soul was understanding it as. So how he was perceiving 22 is however Joe was perceiving it. So 22 could have been a middle-aged man, could have been a small child, could have been anybody, but based off of what Joe was viewing or what Joe's soul was receiving, he saw was receiving a middle-aged white woman. And then even when they were on earth and 22 was in Joe's body, there were several times where 22 is specifically saying, um, saying certain things that only Joe would know. Where is this? How to get to that, what street is this? And Joe would say, How do you know that? It's all up here. So going back to what Ms. Skittle said again and what Miss what Lady Legacy said, it's is that 22 was really living life in not only in Joe's shoes, but was viewing and understanding things based off of the memories and the concepts and the muscle memory that Joe had inside of his mind. So there were there were certain things, of course, that because of the soul within 22 was still saying, This is me, I want to live it the way I want to live it. But then when 22 chose to tap into those memories, chose to tap into those things that Joe had experienced, that is when they were able to really see life the way that uh they could when they were on earth. But I just wanted to add that to that. Uh, were you about to say something, Kaze?

SPEAKER_03 54:38

Uh trying to try to say if I want to say it now or at the end. Yeah, I'll I'll just wrap my shit up again.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Okay. Uh uh the back and point, did you have something?

SPEAKER_04 54:50

Yeah, only slight correction. So 22's voice wasn't what Joe was, it was what 22 made it out to be. 22 specifically chose to use that voice because they thought it annoyed people, but um yes, I was I was gonna say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 55:04

It definitely was like, Oh, I chose this voice because it annoyed me.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

It was the most annoying, and then it was like she chose a baby voice or like a grown man or whatever she was choosing, but yeah, she chose that, yeah. Because you know, some you know, she wanted to be a Karen, but you know, she was a Karen, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

I uh and she wanted to be unbothered, yeah, and she wanted and she wanted her perk mentors to quit on her as soon as possible, right?

SPEAKER_07 55:27

And when she said it, when when when Joe said, Why do you sound like a middle-aged white woman? And she said, I did it, I I chose it because I wanted to be annoying. I immediately thought of Karen. Yeah, I was like, Oh, is that shade at the Karen's? Oh, we sound like a middle-aged white woman, Lord.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

I also thought it was a really like clever moment for the filmmakers to be to show that this is a very self-aware film. Like we know exactly what we're doing. And I think that's one of the more interesting and more nuanced parts of a lot of Disney films that um people don't always get a chance to truly tap into because they only pay attention to things at a very kind of baseline level. Um, there are nuances and there are like little pieces that come into world building. That what seems like a throwaway line at the very beginning is a very crucial part to understanding these characters and the world that they're in.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

So moving forward uh with the finale, of course, of the movie. Um, while on Earth, you know, Joe and 22 are moving around with this cat and Joe's body. Um, they're different simulate stimulation, sorry, that uh 22 um uh experiences while in Joe's body, eating pizza, uh smelling different things, you know, air, wind, uh moving around, sunlight, uh, there's uh the taste of food, just different types of experiences that you know slowly starts to um bring 22 closer into wanting um uh wanting something different, wanting to be alive. And um uh so the big thing, you know, the there always has to be an antagonist uh inside of a Disney movie, which was you know, Terry, the accountant, um, who was hot on their trail, um uh looking for them uh in different places, you know, embodying different types of things and energies within the world to find uh Joe and 22. Uh so at that point towards the end of the movie, uh the they had already received or met up with um uh Moon, I forgot his name that quick. Uh Moonwind. Moonwind and met it uh uh met up with him on 14th, and I forget the other street, but on 14th Street. Basically, he explained um you have to wait till the planets are in alignment where I can put you back in your body and send 22 back to um uh the great before and or rather technically the zone. And um he said it'd be about 6:30. So um, of course, Joe had already you know set up his, he's supposed to uh play with the band at 7 or rehearsal was at 7, the band was supposed to perform at either 8 or 9. So he said everything would line up perfectly. All he has to do is get his suit ready, find Moon Win at 6:30, get back in his body, perform, and change his life forever. So uh as all that's happening, that is when um 22 starts to realize I'm about to lose out on this opportunity or this chance to be alive. And that's when they make a break for it inside of Joe's body. Um, of course, Joe in the cat's body starts chasing after them. Uh, that is when uh Terry finds them and pulls them both back into uh the great before, uh where they, you know, kind of sum up the storyline where they're like, hey, um, you're gonna have to go to the great beyond. Um, and then uh 20, that's when they realize that 22 has now received their earth badge. And as we said earlier, their earth badge is a combination of all their talents and personality, not talents, sorry, all their personalities, uh, sorry, their personality and all the things that they're going to use on earth, and then that spark that gives them a yearning to live. And somehow 22 discovered or attained that on earth, and now they have their earth pass. So all the uh Jerry's were congratulating Joe on, you know, and asking Joe, you know, how did you help um 22 get their earth pass or f finalize it? And Joe angrily said, Well, because they lived in my body, they were able to understand it because they were me. Uh, it was it has to their their their they specifically said that uh 22's spark, their talent, their reason for living, has to be the piano because that's what his was inside of his body. And that's when Jerry pretty much explained to um to Joe that that's not what the spark is. Your spark isn't your talent, your spark isn't uh your reason for living. Uh and he pretty much said silly humans. He didn't really explain. I mean, he you had to pretty much infer it, but he said, you know, silly human, it's not your reason for living. Your spark is your reason for what? I forget what it is actually. Something somebody tell me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

It's if you're ready to live, like if you're ready to go on earth.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

It's the want to living, is that what it is?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

Want to live, yeah. Yeah, if you're ready to go on earth or something.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

I think that might have been one of my favorite parts of the film because it's like there's it doesn't it it plays with the idea that there is something that there is a spark to life to to to to live in, but there is no inherent purpose to life. There's no you're not born with a purpose, you have to go find it, or they make that purpose in life.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

So thank you. Uh so um that is when Joe starts to think about it's like crap. I then yelled at this person. Mind you, uh uh at this point, 22 runs away. They throw the pass at uh Joe, telling him, you know, go to earth, go back to your body. Um, and 22 runs away. Um, Joe at that point uses the pass, jumps to earth, gets back in his body, um, makes it to his performance, uh, performs beautifully. The crowd loves it. Standing ovation, all this jazz, literally. Um, and after the performance, he's standing there with um Dorothea. And uh, this is another point where a lot of people were talking about online. This line that Angela Bassett Bassett as Dorothea Williams gave to Joe that had him literally pondering the meaning of life, literally, uh, for the next few scenes. Um, does anybody want to recite it? I don't want to mess it up in any way, shape, or form, or should we just let them watch the movie to find it out? I'll let him watch the movie. All right, so she says something, has him pondering for the next couple of scenes. Um, and that is when he decides, okay, I need to go, you know, fix this. Um, and he finds out, he remembers that the way to get back to the in-between, or rather the great before, is through the zone. So he goes back to his apartment, gets into the zone, finds finds himself back there. He runs into Moon, uh, I forgot his name again. Thank you. Moonwind. I don't know, it's so easy. I don't know. Anyway, runs back into Moon Wind, um, and they go looking for 22. Moon Wind tells them that 22 has now turned into Gwen, what is it called?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Lost Soul.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Thank you. Uh, where uh, and I'm not gonna go into detail about that one, you can find out on your own. But this next part of the movie is kind of the wrap-up where uh Joe runs into finds 22 as a lost soul and tries to save 22's lost soul as well as give back the earth pass so they can get back to Earth. Uh he eventually ends up doing so. Um, and then uh uh pretty much at the end of the movie, just to wrap it up so we can give our final thoughts on it. Um 22, uh Joe escorts 22 as far as he can back to Earth. Uh, due to all that he did for 22, the Jerry's, uh, distract Terry long enough to give Jerry the uh Joe the opportunity to go back into his body and re and you know live his life. So, panelists, uh, you know, kind of as a wrap-up, how do you feel about both this last scene and then uh we'll give our full synopsis and overview and uh responses to the movie as a whole? So, last scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:14

Can I just can I do the thing that Dorothea Williams said? Because it was really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Well, I was really trying to let them like the the listeners listen to it on their own.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:23

I don't want to like it's February by this point, they haven't seen it. Uh they didn't even move on this one. So are we doing it? Yeah, go ahead. So I didn't hear what I didn't hear what Lady Legacy said because it kind of cut out a little bit. Oh, she's go ahead.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:37

Go ahead, Charles.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

I heard this story about a fish. He swims up to an older fish and says, I'm trying to find this thing they call the ocean. The ocean, the older fish says, That's what you're hearing right now. This says the young fish. This is water. I'm looking for the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

It is, it is. Pretty much. And it's like you thought your main purpose in life is to play with the best jazz band or whatever, whatever, and then you come to your final big break and whatever, and it's not as fulfilling as you thought it was. What I think he genuinely enjoys, or you know, to allude to, or whatever have you, was just that type of teaching. It does really go back to the teaching. He was able to even indirectly teach 22 all these things and introduce them to certain people that introduced 22 to certain aspects of life that they wouldn't have been able to be exposed to in the grape before. And when the the I think when the little girl comes in to get her whatever, yeah, Bonnie, and then she was saying, I'm gonna quit and whatever, whatever. And 22 is like, yeah, girl, quit. I don't like it either. But then when she played for her, when 20 when Bonnie played for 22, they were able to see how she gets in the zone and understand that even though you might not mainly say that you don't like it, it doesn't mean that you don't have that passion for it. You shouldn't give up on it. And it gave that type of teaching moment to both Joe and you know uh 22 that that type of inspiration is is is is in you. You just need to have it awakened by you know doing certain things. But yeah, that's all I got. But I like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

Yeah, I guess uh to further explain my uh earlier earlier point, uh you know, Pixar Pixar does a fantastic job of of animating and personifying concepts uh in a way that can you know be explained to like the you know a regular person and really like get them to like you know understand and and like you know like you know like ins you know inside out they um you know they care they characterize and personify all the all the emotions and you know and they let you you know and they let you let you know how all their little character quirks and how they interact will lead to like how a person's like you know mind will work and how that makes up you know a person and and also how each one of those little little pieces uh ultimately embody you know that you know one person's anger isn't another person's anger and uh you know and another and just and and like in you know uh the you know cocoa they use like all that like rich tradition and all those things in the afterlife to help you know help help that kid you know find out you know find what he was actually looking for and stuff like that. So I think my ultimate problem in inside out is inside out or soul. Yes. Okay I'm like so I think my ultimate issue in in uh soul is their uh I did their their use of the afterlife and and the entire character of uh 22 as a as a as a as a like a as a narrative uh like function, I didn't find that I didn't I didn't find that more interesting than Joe's mundane life. So so you know, so like I didn't like I didn't like that he had to have this super important conversation with his mama through her. Like I thought that was a complete waste. Like I was, you know, while you know while you know while she was like going on hijinks, I just wanted to hear more Felicia Rashad and more Angela Bassett. Um and and and and ultimately like it was like this the story was like kind of through Joe's lens, but I felt like it was ultimately more about 22, who again I didn't care too much about. Um so uh yeah, that's just that's ultimately weird. It's it's a good movie, wonderful message. Uh but I would have loved to have gotten more used.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

No, but you can go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:52

No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

You muted yourself again.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Sorry, it'll give me time to formulate my thoughts, so like please.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:00

Um I don't think that the I I want to slight kind of dis slightly disagree. I don't think the I don't think the movie was so much more about 22, but it was more about Joe's realization about his life through his journey with 22. Um the the quote uh that Dorothea gives him, the s like the kind of little parable that she gives him about the fish at the end of the film, um is kind of representative of this entire journey at the time. Because he he's he's convinced that his life is all about music and that his purpose is to you know play music and be a musician. And but when he went through the museum that was his life, he didn't see any of that. He sa he saw nothing but these failures, even though he thought his life was all about music. It it was, he made it that way, but it wasn't the way in which he saw it. Everything that he was looking for, or the way in which he perceived everything that happened wasn't through what he thought he was looking for. And the the film ties nicely with that quote because uh I I view it more as you have this character looking for this this massive thing, and someone tells you you're it you already have it, and because of the way in which you value it or the way in which you perceive it, it isn't the thing that you think that you think you're looking for. Meanwhile, it's you have it the entire time, like you're in it. When the when she says, or when the old fish says the ocean, you're in the ocean, he's like, No, this this is water. Like I've been here the entire I've been in this this simple thing the whole time. It was like, yeah, this is the thing you've been looking for. It's all it's always been here. You've all and that's kind of what Joe learns throughout the film, not just with 22, but not just through through his not just interacting with 22 and helping, quote unquote helping 22, and when he wasn't trying to really help 22 do anything, but just experiencing his life by proxy of this cat that he's in, and coming to the understanding when he gets the chance to you know live life again, that the entire the entirety of all of his experiences and all of his wants and need and his you know supposed needs about his purpose and the thing that he wants from life is never been the thing that's driven him. It's the fact, it's the well, in my opinion, it's the it's the fact that he has been living in his passion the entire time. He hasn't been living to do his passion, his passion has been his life the entire time, and he never really paid attention to that fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:46

No, I can I can definitely uh agree with that. I think I think it's mainly just on the more what is it? I guess I guess like it's just like pure like runtime. It was kind of like she was the like she had she had most of the agency in the story. Like it was most like like he like he kind of the shit just happened to him and for him to get where he wanted to go, he just kind of had to hinge his his his destiny on what she what she could figure out and what she wanted to do, and you know, and even even her like running off at the end, it was just kind of like every everything that happened was was was based on a reaction to what was happening what was happening through her. And you know, and I and his his realization of of you know you know pretty much what you what you said, that was beautiful, but again, I th I think that could have been achieved with less less less of her on screen as as much. That's why that's why I felt like it definitely felt more as as a like it was just kind of like we we was just watching a lot of her, even though he was learning like the the meaningful lessons and doing all that, but it's just kinda I don't I don't feel like she had to be on screen for 60% of the movie to do that so at so and I I hear I hear both sides, but at so so then at this juncture it's like well what was the movie about?

SPEAKER_07 1:13:22

Was it about jokes or was it about souls in general? Was it a generalization um on the ideas of a living soul? Um because we could have had this movie with an all-white cast, which would have been typical Disney shit, typical Disney and Pixar shit. Um but uh we we got an all black cast, um for for the most part, and and and then we followed a soul that had no gender or um or race. So so that like I said, at the and this this point where where who was the movie about? The movie was about a soul, a soul, uh whether it had been Joe's soul or 22 or whatever number they designated.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:24

Um mind you like this 22 was soul number 22, which means 22's been around for a while because we saw like from the longest. Happy as fuck.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:43

Right. But I th I think I think the the movie's soul purpose uh I think the movie's purpose and message overall was was whether we whether we focus on Joe's life or not, even though Joe's life uh was sad. Uh it doesn't be sad to me. Um but whether we focus on his life or not, we as human beings don't need to find purpose in in life doing one thing or or or even find a purpose at all. Like to me, the the message was sent very clearly uh to adults, not necessarily kids, but that you don't need to put uh don't put all your eggs in one basket per se. Like, yes, you know, if you find something in life that you're passionate about, that's that's great, that's wonderful. But you also need to experience life, and that means doing multiple things, um, and and and not not being so caught up in this one thing that you you feel is your particular purpose, um, that you don't notice the world around you. Um and there's so many things in in this life that you can get um joy from, that you can feel the same passions from as the one thing that you feel like you you your only purpose is. Uh I mean, Joe, Joe's Joe was so tragically caught up in his purpose that he didn't even have a conversation with his barber, which is something black people do all the fucking time. Like, like, like, sir, like you don't know nothing about your barber dog.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

Nah man.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:37

And like so it it it just was Joe was just a vehicle to show us, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to be stuck in one one place. You have to when you live life, you you you're supposed to experience everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:54

Right. Take time to smell the roses.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:58

Even when he did talk to his barber, he was always talking about jazz. He was always talking about music.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:02

Like he's like, you never ask, nigga.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:04

Like you never tried to talk about one one one important thing that I I really took away from from the whole entire thing was after after he came back and he achieved his purpose, he was he was sad as fuck. Like, wait, that's it. What do I do now? What do you do now? Really? Because you literally, because you literally made your whole life about this one thing, and now you done achieved it, it done happened. You you thought it was gonna be like life sparkles, like like fashion show.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:43

And and Dorothea said, What do you mean? We come back tomorrow and do it again.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:50

You found the job, nigga. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:54

Okay, the doctor, are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:56

Oh, yeah, you know, and I definitely feel like I think that was this really strong point for me, and something I enjoyed was this, you know, kind of really pointing out like, oh, this perception of a purpose, this one thing that you're meant to do, it has all these flaws in it. And no, it's not actually correct. And all these issues can come up if you focus too heavily on that, but you make that your whole identity. And you know, I I did really enjoy that. I think for me, like the way that that message was driven home was something I loved about the movie. I absolutely did. You know, um, I definitely agree with Kaze on 22, where I felt like 22 wasn't particularly necessary for a lot of the things that they had them doing, of course, for a narrative purpose. And, you know, it's in in some ways I felt like 22 decentered Joe at certain points. And that was something that, you know, I would enjoy Joe's character and you know, writing about you know, his background and like these little nuances around him, and I feel like 22 decentered that sometimes. I think that was, you know, and when I say following I was following my thoughts, like I'm trying to piece together, you know, what I think is my big overarching, well what I've done big overarching areas of improvement, I think, you know, would have helped me enjoy a little bit more than I did, even though I enjoyed it a lot. Um, and I think a lot of them tie back to 22, you know. So, you know, I do feel like that was something that wasn't as strong for me. That's because like it didn't really function as it didn't function as a narrative device as well as I would have wanted it to, and that it decentered Joe a lot of the time. You know, and you know, at the end of the day, like it, I won't say it went as far as, you know, oh, Joe's not the main character, but there were definitely points where it felt like, okay, this is ambiguous almost, you know. Yeah, but it was something where I almost feel like if this were a movie I was really just focusing just on Joe and you know, expanding that a little bit more, I probably would have enjoyed it a little bit more than I did. Like, let's say like sold like an eight or so, or you know, so it's still like a movie I like a lot. Like, I think it probably could have been a nine or ten, if you know, not for some of the stuff around um 22. You know, I think then also like as I mentioned before, some of the transformation tropes, some of those issues do tie back to 22 as well. You know, okay. I feel like it would have been a different movie, um, one that is, you know, I'm not gonna say one that is necessarily definitely better, but um, one that I would have enjoyed a little bit more than I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

I I think I mean I I do understand the whole big kind of centered a little bit more to I I can see how you can say the it could be centered around, hey guys, see what you can say how you can center around uh 22, but I feel as though most of the things that happened while 22 was in Joe's body, Joe would have never done.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:07

I was literally thinking about confronted his mama, he would have never talked to the barber, he just thinks everything was hunky dory, everything was status quo. So I think that 22 character, even though did you know kind of set it off center, but he didn't have that, I guess, confidence.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:26

You know, he was stuck in that rut of his life that he thought so so we're not really saying that 22 didn't serve a purpose, we're just saying they could have used a different narrative device right while while still focusing more on Joe, that wouldn't have happened. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:42

Yeah, I kind of want to I kind of want to push back and say that I I think they did well with what they had because when I when I think about as I'm as I as I listen to you both, and I think about I was thinking about 23 and I was thinking about Joe, they both, at least from my perception of the film, they both needed to learn the same lesson. Yeah, but Joe wouldn't have learned that lesson. I don't think they as as they set up the story, it doesn't seem like Joe would have learned that lesson if he hadn't have been in the seat that he was. Yeah, wouldn't have learned the the which I think the overall kind of like theme of the overall like lesson of the movie is like live like value life for what it is, not for what you think it is. But if I think that if Joe hadn't had this like like side seat to his life or what what he saw was his life, and someone else living his life in a way that was very the the the in these very like kind of uh beautifully mundane ways, then he wouldn't have seen like he wouldn't he himself wouldn't have been inspired and he wouldn't have smiled and he wouldn't have gotten a different perspective, right? He wouldn't have got he had the opportunity to get a different perspective of his life, and 22 got the opportunity to get a different perspe um a more in-depth perspective or firsthand experience with life, and so they both learned to value life in different ways, in the ways that they needed to. And I I I'm I'm I'm struggling to to think that Joe would have had the capacity to do so because of how even after he walked through the museum of his life, how he still was very focused on the singular um kind of passion of music as it pertained to his life. And even when he even when he was back in the world with 22 as a cat, like that was still his focus. We need to get ready for this gig, we need to do whatever we can to make sure that this particular passion of mine is fulfilled, and when it was, it was it was empty, it was really, it was a hollow experience. And it wasn't until he got to, you know, he got the parable from Dorothea and he went home and he had a chance to really think about it. He's like, fuck, I fucked up, I hurt 22, I spurned them from life, I need to value life more. And when he, you know, when we get to the end of the film and uh he's rewarded with the opportunity to live again, and you know, he gets into this monologue about how he's going to actually live his life from here on out versus how he was living it before.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:11

Uh I'm I definitely agree that uh again, an a a narrative device was needed. I mean, is is is is is her specifically. You know, it's kind of it's just like uh you know, it's just like a you know a Christmas carol and you know the ghost of Christmas past and future, and what you know, and to show that person their life and all these different experiences. There's a lot of things you could have done. It's just that not just, you know, uh we we thought she wasn't very compelling. And and and for and and for her not being uh not only not being super compelling, but also drawing drawing, just drawing a lot of uh screen time, you know, the there's there's uh new just numerous of different amounts of ways that uh you know that Joe could have could have reached the same conclusion. That's you know, that's that's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:58

I also want to say that I also want to think that maybe it was supposed to be kind of mundane, but also I'm curious like what do you all think would have been like a more effective kind of device or tool to use?

SPEAKER_07 1:25:08

Yeah, that that that was gonna be my question. What what what device would you have to write?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:15

I mean, honestly, even again, it is is very specifically like her. I just didn't care for any, it could have been someone else. Neither did 22.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:27

Was it like I'm not trying to be here, I don't want to be like, bitch, same.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:38

I don't know why you want to get you avoided it as long as you did. But but yeah, I might even like that more if it was just rebalanced. Because again, my my uh my my my my general take is damn, I wish I had more of such and such. I wanted I wanted more the students, I wanted, I wanted more mama, I wanted more barbershop, I wanted more just you know, him living his regular shit. Like that's that's why even like you know, when you pointed out earlier that like you know, you said it would be boring, and I was like, there was nothing there was nothing boring about the the the world they made. Like you, you know, it was like narratively, you know, they let you know that he was kind of you know didn't do much and was a failure, but that was but that was a narrative thing. But you know, but like but me, I just wanted to I just wanted to meet more of the real people they made because they were really fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

So you want a series it doesn't it sounds like you didn't want soul, you wanted uh a movie about black people, so we can flesh out the rest of these right. That's what I'm saying. Like and then and and I guess my my question was going to be kind of close to what Miss Skittle's question wasn't uh the black McCoy's question was, but a little bit to the side is if the issue was the narrative device that they were using, which was 22, and you didn't care for how not necessarily the narrative was being done, but who was delivering it? Is it that you didn't like if if the soul was a black soul with uh I think you we had that in one of our previous conversations, if it was a black soul with Afro pubs uh being voiced by the person who voices Miles Morales versus the person who voiced it this time, would it be better? Or is it that you specifically wanted a movie that a Disney Pixar movie that embodied African Americans, African Americans?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:45

Uh that that definitely goes into it. I want I want my black cocoa, and we ain't get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:49

That's there's uh but but that's and there that's what I wanted to know. But I know there's more. I know there's more. Yeah, that's just I'm just happy to hear that part.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:58

No, that definitely, that definitely colors. That definitely colors colors the same. But but again, I think I think it I think I'll have been fine with just with a different just different a different balancing. I don't think all of 22's uh antics and and you know misadventures were necessarily core to the to the narrative they're trying to tell. They could have they could have done that in a any number amount of ways, and I think I would enjoy many of those other ways.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:32

That's I will say you don't put Felicia Roshad and Angela Bassett.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:40

The doctor, you seem like you're about to make a point.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:43

Yeah, I was about to say, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:45

Yeah, no, I mean I was just gonna most generally agree. Like I, you know, hit pretty much all the points. Um, I would say if, you know, yeah, it would be great to see a black soul as well, but I don't even think that was my biggest issue with 22. Um I think it was just, yeah, like the decentering was a big thing. And you know, when you're decentering and it's someone who's not really and the character isn't especially compelling to me, like those two things combined are an issue. You know, so it's like the character were just like more, I thought they're more engaging or they work better as you know I I guess more interesting in general to me, you know, then I probably have less of an issue with the decentering. But you know, there are a lot of ways, I mean you could still it could still work with 22 if 22 were you know just the screen time were different and a few other things were different, but yeah, like I I definitely think the way 22 was done, um it it took it out, it took me out of the movie at a certain point. I was saying it took me out of the movie, but I think I would have enjoyed the movie more if you know they were done a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:56

Okay. The Black McCoy, did you have a final thought? Um or did you already give it?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:01

I think I have got all my thoughts out. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:05

Okay. And then um shampoo bracelets. I know you wanted to give your dialogue as into why you chose not to watch the movie. And I'm assuming this is based off of trailers, commercials, what people have said, so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:23

Yeah. Okay. Four time. Yeah, it's a mystical.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:32

Um, I think it came from a lot because I was reading the different reviews on Seoul. I think um Shammy B and I both had the impression that like Kaze said, we were gonna get our black cocoa, like this was gonna be like a movie about black people in like the history of jazz or something, and then you dive into it a little deeper and you find out whole shit, that's not what it's about. But being that it's Pixar, you know, Pixar always does these movies that may be rated PG, but they always had this meaning behind it. Like Kaze touched on it again where he was talking about inside out. Yes, they did talk about the different emotions, but then you were also seeing this little girl who got snatched out of her hometown and trying to adjust to a new town. So she was going through depression. So you were watching a teenage girl try to grill with her emotions while she was going through depression and adjusting. Same thing with um up, how you watched the couple and as they grew and then found out they haven't had kids, couldn't have kids, and then the husband wanted to live on her wishes. Yeah, Shami V said he almost said teared on that movie because it was just so intense.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:38

Oh tears, bro. As soon as you hear that music, you go, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:49

I have a confession. I have a confession. I have never washed up because you don't need an invitation, you can just watch it. They said it was so sad, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:06

It's not even the whole movie, it's literally just that moment at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:10

It's the first 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:12

It's not even the first half, it's like the first 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:19

There's no there's no talking, no, no, it's like maybe couple words by the little girl, but but it's literally the first 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:25

You'll just be like, oh, going along, looking at their life, but then you'll be like, damn, like it's not a slow damn, it's literally not oh damn.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:40

So pretty much how like y'all were talking about how soul started, right? Like that's pretty much that the thing about that's how up was almost.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:48

Yeah, but it was I think before the like show the title is how they do everything, right? Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:55

You know, Pixar movies to me are more so about the kids get the color while the adults get the realization behind it.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:02

But it's really good. I really want you to watch it, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:33:04

I mean, they're they're all good movies, so it's just like I was listening to y'all, and I'm like, okay, so you had the negative person who was 22, and then you had the other negative person who was Joe because he couldn't look outside of his own life. So you had two negative people come together to try to make a positive, so one could actually decide to go to Earth, and so the other could hopefully get his life back and look at it from a different perspective. So I was like, Well, we all go through that struggle in life, of course, you know, trying to find your purpose. You get that high paying job, and you're like, Oh shit, well, what the fuck do I do now? You know what I'm saying? Like, what's funny?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:43

Because they even had a hedge fund manager in the goddamn movie who was a lost soul, you know, they pulled his ass out. And he was like, What the fuck am I doing? Well, he didn't say what the fuck. He's like, What am I doing with my life? He like tossed all the shit over and just ran out. It was hilarious.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:57

Yeah, he was like, you know, a quote that kind of like fucked me up, but then Shammy over here came to another realization within the quote. So the quote where it says, You can't crush a soul here, that's what life on earth is for.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:12

Yeah, I don't even know if that was a quote, then that was like the the purpose of the movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:17

Well, so then he realized it to or tied it back to another quote that he heard from DMX.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:23

Oh no, it's not as bad as this. I've met you.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:29

Yes, I was not saying I've met you. No, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just I'm just saying I've met you.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:37

Of course, there's a song that was very popular at one point called Slippin', Fall and Can't Get Up. Slipping, Falling, Can't Get Up. At the beginning of that song or the album, there's a line that's made saying to live is to suffer, but to survive is to find meaning within the suffering. And when you look at the idea of oh, souls don't get crushed, that happens on earth. It's like saying you're living on earth, you're surviving on earth. You're not up here, we're dead. We're just we're just floating around. And it's like so it's so it's that was when I she said that, that was the first thing I heard. It was like the whole thing about the uh the same with the ocean versus the water thing. And it's and I I tie that to um somebody coming up to you and saying, Yo, I heard they're living out here, I'm trying to live. And you look at them and say, But you're living, you're alive. They look back at you and say, No, this is survival. I'm trying to live. And it's and it's kind of like it's all. I've as I hear about this movie, as I hear y'all talking about her reviews about this movie, even to the point where it's like you look at uh 22 takes over Joe's body, and the and what you get with her taking over Joe's body is different than what you got with Joe, was in his own body. They're going through the same life, they're experiencing the same things. The only difference is that the perceptions that they have is is different. Now, I do agree I wanted a black cocoa. I really did want a black cocoa. Even if I didn't get a black cocoa, when I first heard about this movie, I was like, I look forward to the mute. I think music will get fired, be fired. I'm thinking it's about it is I expected, yeah, and I've heard that that is true, and I've even tracked this. But um, but like I said, I'm like, I've I was expecting more of you know, black, this black like musician going through, you know, trying to get up in the ranks, he's gone through some tragic shit because it's a Pixar movie, I expect that. And it's like, so it's it's I'm expecting to watch that struggle and to watch, you know, get the black experience, black man, you know, going through a struggle and making it by the end, or and learning something as well. And instead, I you know, the trans, once I found out about the transformation thing, that was before I even watched it. It was just as I kept watching trailers, I got the idea that oh, he's not the way I expected. And it's like, and I didn't even know about the Tina Faye thing until I heard a review, and I was like, oh, fuck that. So, like, so it just kind of ended the movie in my mind. I have no issue with hearing about it, but it was just a thing of I didn't want another princess and the frog. I understood Princess and the Frog, even with Princess and the Frog, they gave you so much of that black New Orleans experience, even within the fact that she was a frog. You got that black, you got more of a black experience than I think I would have expected from that movie. Um and I was happy of that. I was very happy of that. But as I heard more about this movie, I was like, why don't we pass this? Especially with you know how much is going on and everything. I I thought I didn't think this was a good time to do this. Not to say that I'm against it being made at all. I think it ultimately is just another step. But it's like, as you hear about these movies that are doing these transformation uh tropes, and it's now becoming a style of movie at this point. It's like even when I hear, even when a lot of reasons why I didn't, and I'll bring it back to Hamilton was another issue that I had. You weren't telling a black story, you were just telling a white story with black people. I mean, I'm saying it was, and I'm not denying that, and I'm not denying that, and I understand.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:23

I'm just throwing that out there as a people.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:25

No, I'm not no, I'm not saying it's trash. Trust me, I'm not saying it's trash at all because I didn't watch it. So I like I said, my that was my issue with it. Um, I understand the purpose of it. I understand why, I kind of understand why it's being done to an extent, because it's you're hoping, you're just hoping that with doing this over and over and over again, sooner or later you'll start to tell black stories. Like now, now it's just it's a hope now. It's just a hope and a prayer, and you're moving on from there. But um, this movie was from I I enjoy hearing about the messages and learning about this the psychology maybe behind this movie and different uh interpretations you could take from it. But I was I just didn't, I didn't see the point, especially with time and everything. I didn't see the point in watching it. Uh now, if my kids ever come across it, they want to watch it. I'm not gonna tell them, no, I'll sit and watch it with them. I don't, but with a lot of Pixar movies, it's kind of hard because it's like one, it they're not looking at that meeting like I am. And then two, for me, it's a thing of like I said, I've with all the other movies that they've done in the past, like Coco, Wally, um, and Inside Out, uh, like it's just like there's always a deeper meaning within these. This is Toy Story, even this this is what's Drink Works.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:39

No, I think that's Pixar, no Toy Story is Pictar.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:43

But um, yeah, like I said, even with those movies, there was a deeper meaning within them, and they all kind of run the gamut of of something has to do with life, liberty, whatever. Like the pursuit of happiness. But it's like um I was expecting I was expecting different, and then I I do like the idea that there are so many meanings behind this movie. Um, I I find more within looking at it as it's more about perception than it is about uh living a life. But like you say, in the end of the day, I think they could have done this in a way without the transformation trolls. I wish they had done it without the transformation tropes. I think it would have been a little bit more powerful if they did do it without the transformation tropes. But uh I understand, I kind of understand what you're going for there.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:35

Go ahead, ladies, like I feel like with this, especially with um, you know, with uh Coco and you know, Princess the Frog and even with Soul Now, it just says to us now, even though we would have loved the black cocoa, because you know, we fracking deserve it. But I feel like it just shows you have the potential to do it. It's not like you don't know what to do. You have literally a blueprint, so to speak, from Cocoa and from Princess to get that culture and to be able to dive in deeper than or but um dig a little deeper, if you will, pardon the put and uh you know have that. So it should be it shouldn't be too far off to say that it should be coming, and if it isn't, that's that's a problem within itself.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:30

I mean, with all the culture vultures out here, you would think we would get one by now. So with all of the music that they they have stolen from us from the years, you would think black people would have be able to have this one movie to shine on all our accolades.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:46

Because who's nah, nah, nah, nah. It's always a slow road with us.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:50

But who's the one? Like, who's the ones that did the one where uh they pretty much had Stevie Wanted to do that whole fucking catalog? It was just Motem movie. But uh, like you know what I'm talking about? That was uh the elephant was singing on the stage. Oh yeah, say that was like that was code at the best. Like, and I understood it. It was what it was, it was good.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:11

I still stand up for Tori Kelly at the end of that day, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:13

Like, like she did receive was introduced to her between that and the BT Awards, I was introduced to Tori Kelly and I've loved her voice since.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:23

They're actually making a sing too, just to add a little note. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:26

The way she sang hallelujah, ooh, it was like it was like I think that's like the thing was with what sing was, I expected this to be not the exact same, but to just be Pixar's. What did they do? Did Pixar do sing as well? No, no, that was Dreamworks. That was Dreamworks.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:49

I'm not it was somebody else.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:50

It's Dreamworks, yeah. It was only like Pixar Dreamworks, like Dreamworks, I know did uh Moir.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:57

No, that's Disney.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:58

Was that Disney and DreamWorks, or was that Disney and uh or was that just Disney box? I think it was just Disney. I think it was just Disney. I thought that was Disney and Dreamworks.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:06

No, it it um Illumination Entertainment did say that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:12

Illumination, yeah. That one was on the Dreamworks or if it was his own studio or not.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:15

Yeah, but nonetheless, it's like you get these movies and you're like, all right, cool, we get that much closer, we get that much closer. And I thought Soul was like, that was it. But like it was like this is this is that like this is going to pixel five parties and shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:28

But like we not dead yet.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:31

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:32

We not it's we could have been. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:37

Always could have been. It all it do is say take one movie, and we could have been, but you know, it's always gonna be a slow roll, just like you. We slow roll every every fucking thing, slow roll. I mean, we just now got you know, Black Panther, whole fucking movie full of black people uh created by Marvel, like just now.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:57

Would you like to me should have known to take the transformation tropes out to me as as popular as Black Panther was, where you had an all black cast in there? You mean to tell me you couldn't have done a cartoon movie where you felt like an all-black cast could have stood alone by itself? I felt like that was a slap in the face.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:18

To be honest, I mean, I was still in the life with you know, Miss Felicissa Rashad, God bless her, because you know, I was like, when I heard the voice, I got shuddered. I was like, oh hmm, okay, cool. And I felt like they, even though she can carry the movie by herself, but it was like, I feel like with those, you know, big time uh, you know, character things they tried to put in there, they thought that would kind of be enough, which is it's halfway all ish ish, but also they gotta pay them.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:50

So oh, this Disney, that's not even the thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:54

That's not not even networks, I mean like Monopoly, they good, literally.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:59

So they pull some out their purse, they good.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:02

So not to go. Yeah, but let's bring it back.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:07

So I was just gonna give my my final thoughts on it because um I think I was other than of course um shampoo bracels who hadn't who had not seen it at all, I just recently saw it yesterday for the first time. And um, as I said earlier on in the episode, you know, I had the different opinions and the different things that I saw on the internet. So I had thought processes, you know, going into it while still trying to make sure I gave it a blank slate. And um, my 100% takeaway from the entire movie is I thought it was a great movie. Um, I I, you know, was discussing with Lady Legacy when I watched it, um, or after I watched it, that, you know, just like every, like uh Champla Bracett said, like every other Pixar Disney movie, they have it's a movie that children can watch, um, our generation can see it, and then older individuals can see it, and each of us will get a different experience based off of what we watched. I think a lot of us have seen some of the children, sorry, childhood movies we saw from the past and have now new views, interpretations, or um lessons that can be learned from the material that is inside of the movie. Um I I understand what people, as I as I was saying before, trying to make sure I understood where Kazi was coming from, although he specifically said there was more to it than that. But one of the things that I think a lot of people were expecting, as Champlu Bracet said, as the doctor kind of co-signed and other people on the internet have said, is kind of that black cocoa. And um I I I mean, I don't know what reviews or previews that everybody else saw, but I was never sold that this was going to be a black coco. Um, I was never told that it was going to be a movie that was going to, you know, change the face of African-American Pixar Disney movies from here on out. So when I went into watching the movie, I specifically was expecting to just watch a movie. So when I did, I learned several lessons and I saw several things that I did not anticipate seeing in a Disney Pixar movie. And kind of going back to that question that Miss Skittles brought up, which is whether it's a um, she didn't specifically use these words, so I'm very loosely paraphrasing, but was it a black movie or was it a movie about souls? And for me, it was a movie about souls. It was a movie about um your your lifetime, your soul's lifetime while it's on this planet, where it could potentially go, where it could be before then, and how you can how you're supposed to handle and carry out your journey while on this planet. Um, kind of, you know, piggybacking off what Shampoo Bracelet said, um, you know, referencing DMX, it's you know, what are you doing while you are here? Are you just wasting your time, or are you sitting there trying to do one specific thing, not looking at everything else your life has to offer you? Are you actually wasting your time while you're on this planet? And, you know, the narrative devices that were used by 22 or, you know, the character that is Joe, um, I I think the measurement in which the uh the uh great before or the great beyond were properly done because of keeping in mind, as I've always said as it pertains to Disney movies, it isn't 100% for the adults, it's also for the kids. If they made a 100% movie that was Joe's life in New York, and I'm not combating or rebutting anything anybody says, but if they had, would it be uh would would it be attractive to the kids? And we've talked about the the different uh artistic styles of new cartoons versus older cartoons, say Teen Titans versus Teen Titans go before, and how the current generation, there's a specific art style that they kind of gravitate towards. So we fell in love, or we were attracted to the art styles of Joe and everybody else in New York before he fell down the manhole cover. Once the movie switched, now people like my nephew, his cousins, and people of that age groups are now attracted to these new shapes that are on the screen because it's what they're more attracted to in terms of the art styles and the cartoons that they watched. Then when it revisited Earth again, this is when you combine the two. The kids, I'm not gonna say definitively, because I don't know. I'm not a child anymore, but the kids could only absorb so much from the beginning, but probably absorb more based off of you know ratings and TV shows and cartoons, more from when they were in the great before. So now they've combined the voices with these new uh um these new these characters from before, and now they're trying to understand whatever plot device that they're trying to drive forward. So, my whole thing about it is as a movie about souls, it was a great movie that had many lessons that every age group can adopt, absorb, and understand and take forward in how they handle things. Live your life, do what you need to do, um, but don't do the things that you need to do, thinking it's the only thing you could potentially do. Because that's how you get stuck in a quote unquote rut. Um, like the different points in the movie where at the beginning, Joe was like, I'll die a happy man if I can just like he specifically said, I could die a happy man if I get the gig. As soon as he got the gig, he died. So he got what he asked for. Like I noticed that as soon as he said it at the beginning of the movie, I was like, Oh, so you're about to die, ain't you? And then he fell down the manhole because he said, I will die a happy man if I get the gig. He didn't say if I perform on stage. He said, No, actually, he said if I can get the opportunity to perform on stage with Dorothea Williams. And he got the opportunity. It was the gig. He got he passed. He got it. And then he died. And then one thing that uh the Black McCoy said uh later on in the movie, when Joe was re-uh was, you know, trying to get back into the zone and you know, uh see 22 and you know, apologize, is when Joe, right after Joe had spoken to Dorothea Williams and he had um gotten the parable and was, you know, like I said, stuck faced for several scenes, when he got back to his apartment and he saw all those different things that 22 had embraced or had used to understand life or want to, you know, um pretty much attain their spark, he was then he didn't uh he wasn't taken, but he took himself on a visual journey of the memories that 22 had left in his mind. He went back and looked at each of the different items that 22 had encountered on their journey within the last not even 12 hours. And each memory was fresh on his mind because it's you know his body, of course. That then incited his memories of the past, his actual life. Earlier in the movie, when he went through the hall of his life, he saw everything seemed like a dismal thing. It seemed like nothing but no slam doors, sorry, Joe's, you can't do this. But when he relived his life in his mind, he saw all the happiness, he saw the experiences that he didn't originally think of. He saw the things that probably were in that hall, but because he was so consumed with looking for the music part of it, what he wanted to show 22, those were the memories or the images that came up. Every time you were looking for a gig, they said no, because it was things based off of music. But when he went and relived things, like when he was sitting in the cafe by or the diner by himself and he was enjoying the I think it was a blueberry cobbler. Uh he was enjoying the taste of that food when he was on when he was uh playing music that he loves for his father before he passed, he enjoyed that experience. When his father father passed, and him and his mother were on the beach, you know, just you know, enjoy well, not enjoying, but you know, grieving on that day, they he relived that experience. So for me, it was not the story of Joe per se, but it was an experience of a soul and the experience of this person's life, and telling him to experience the entire life, or you'll end up dead, and you would have experienced you would have truly not experienced every anything based off of what you say that you think life is, going back to the parable about the water versus the ocean. Um, so I I enjoyed the movie. Um, I do still agree with uh the doctor about it being like an eight, not full on a nine, maybe like an eight and a half for me. Um, because there are things that could have been done differently. Um, but in terms of my expectations versus what they gave me, I'm happy with what they gave me. Uh the the plot devices, the narratives, uh Ms. Gittles just got really bright. I'm not sure why. The sunlight. Um all of the different things that were um, all of the different things that they gave me in the movie, I wasn't upset about them at all. Um I feel like because I wasn't expecting a black cocoa, I was able to enjoy the movie for what they delivered to me. Um, yeah, so that's my uh overall feedback of the entire movie. I give it like an 8.5 if I was gonna rate it. Um so if nobody else has any points that they want to state to anybody, uh I I even you know, despite my harshness, I I'd like to say that I'm I'm around a 7.5.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:48

I I was not I was not down on the movie. And and also I wasn't, I don't, I'm pretty, I'm pretty good at going into something without a lot of preconceived notions. I think I I think my problem happened when when we experienced that they gave me a taste of that blackness and I wanted more, and then they gave and then they gave me other stuff. A children's movie? Uh don't say children's movie because we because I love all the Pixar's movies. So that's obviously.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:17

When I say children's movie, that's why I was kind of referring to that tully tubby type vibe. That's what I mean by children's movie. I don't mean the movie as it in and of itself.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:24

No, no, because I because I I mean no, again, there's there's stuff that are for children that I that I'm completely fine, you know, that that that are that I find completely cool and palatable. That's just this this is wasn't one of them. And and and also even conceptually, I mean I don't even think the other side was like, you know, completely actually the other side wasn't a problem. It was it was it was it was go ahead and say it's TFA.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:47

There it is. Yep. Okay, so anybody else have any ratings? We have an eight from the doctor, eight point five from my you said an eight, right? The doctor?

unknown 1:54:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:56

Okay, a 7.5 from Kaize, uh, 8.5 from myself, Miss Skittles.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:01

I'm an eight. 8.5.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:06

Lady Legacy?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:07

Yeah, definitely 8.5.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:09

Uh the black McCoy. The black McCoy?

SPEAKER_04 1:55:17

8.5.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:18

Ah, there you are. Um, and then although you didn't see it, uh, for a review and preview and all the stuff you've heard about it, what would you give the movie shampoo bracelets? You're on mute.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:33

From what I've heard of the movie. I would say I would say uh seven, six point five seven.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:43

Okay. All right. So uh that's to wrap up this episode of our blurred cue regarding the movie Soul. Um, we wanted to make sure we gave you our feedback. I will make sure you know these are obvious spoilers if you haven't seen it, but you know, we can't do nothing about that now. Um but uh if you have any feed, actually, we would like to open a discussion about this particular movie and maybe you know bring it out to everybody else. I think a lot of people saw the reviews, sorry, yeah, the reviews and previews of this movie, which like the chat like Shampoo bracelets, it might have deterred you from watching the movie, or maybe you saw it and you have you know different opinions from the rest of our panelists. So please give us your feedback either at our mailbag, the blurred spectrum at umbrellstarkade.com, or um on our social medias, the blurred spectrum on Facebook or Instagram and Blurred Spectrum on uh Twitter. And then if you want to reach out to any of us individually, maybe you want to uh tell Kaze that he don't know what he's talking about, or if you want to tell, or if you want to tell um or you want to tell Shampoo bracelets they need to, you know, go ahead and let them children watch that movie, or if you want to have a um a uh brilliant battle of uh uh uh psychology, physiology, and the mind and the personality traits that were seen inside of the movie, go ahead and uh direct message. I said it out loud again, all the way through, direct message uh the black McCoy. Um, I'm sure each and every one of our panelists will love to give you their feedback. So if you want to reach out to me, Suchino Shogun, uh simply at uh Umbral Starcade, that is on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube, I think that's it. Um, and then Ms. Skittles.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:39

Uh Ms. Skittles T R underscore cosplay on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:46

And uh Kaze Shinryu. Kaze Shinryu uh on uh YouTube.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:52

The Black McCoy McCoy on Instagram and the black mccoy cosplay on Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:58

The doctor open on Facebook, Lady Legacys um Amazon Graceland on Instagram and um yeah what what what if they think that smack is a part of your name? Like what if they think it's like an emoji or something?

SPEAKER_01 1:58:17

That's not my problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:18

You can tell and shampoo bracelets.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:23

Y'all can catch us a shampoo shampoo bracelets on Instagram. I can never say you can catch me on uh Twitter, you can catch me on shampoo bracelets as well on yeah, as well on uh Discord. Like this ain't that great. Like it's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:41

Do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:43

All right, that's just me and the ID. I really say niggrish is my first language.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:49

Oh thank you, everyone. Thank you, panelists, thank you, listeners. Uh, if you uh again hit us up if you have any feedback. Uh, and stay tuned for our next blurred uh blurred queue review. Um, as well as coming up soon, we're gonna have our quarterly, excuse me, our quarterly anime reviews. Uh, so be be ready for that. And then wrapping up what you may call the month of love, we are going to have a tournament. Gotta blank that out. A quarter tournament of sneezes. Ha! Shut up! I gotta a tournament of the best fighting scenes from anime, gaming, and movies and TV. Please be ready. It'll be the fighting tournament of the world, or I guess this podcast. Uh, our panelists will decide. You will get a choice to listen, and we'll make a decision of what fight scene is the best. All right. Thank you, and listen next week.