The Blerd Spectrum
The Blerd Spectrum
The Blerd Queue: Loki Review Part 1
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Yello. Nah, I'm sorry. Yes. So welcome to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast. We are here this week to talk about a phenomenal subject, a uh a very uh mystifying subject, a very mysterious subject, a very um time-consuming subject. Six episodes. What anyway, anyway. So uh so we're talking about Loki Marvel's or technically Disney Pluses. Loki. Uh we've well, we had some struggles with some of our panelists watching this episode, but some of us delighted in the fact that we could watch the entire thing. Some were bribed, uh, some were forced. Well, we call it bribed. It was bribery. Um, and then we also have a guest it was more like extortion. Oh, Jesus. We have a guest crossover uh uh uh panelist who has some insight. I believe uh some of you may have already heard their takes on uh uh low-key uh after during and after, I'm sure the uh show's airing. Uh so first, of course, I'm gonna go over or you know introduce our panelists, starting with myself, our moderator, uh Suchino Shogun. Uh, we also have Kaze Shinryu. We have Miss Sayone Cosplay. Hello, we have Shample Bracelets, one or two.
SPEAKER_02One. Hey.
SPEAKER_04We'll have words about that later. We have the Black McCoy for all time, and we have from FTO uh D. I was not FTO D, but FTO D from FTO.
SPEAKER_07I think that's a that's exactly the that's exactly the reaction of the following your court.
SPEAKER_04See, this is why special names are used so people don't get confused by the things I say. Um, but yes, we are here to specifically talk about our reactions, our hopes, our wishes, our dreams for uh how Loki panned out, what we were expecting before it took place, and then what we think is gonna happen in the future. Um, I think we had a lot of speculation, of course, uh after our WandaVision episode, talking about how um, you know, it leads up into the multiverse of madness. But now with Loki, we're kind of thinking, well, where is this going to take us? A lot of things happened, a lot of things were touched on, and it explained some things and kind of left us wanting other things. So we're gonna talk about all of that, but we're gonna start with what were our expectations leading into Loki? Uh, I think we all for the most part most part saw the schedule of the Marvel TV shows and movies that were coming out for the early 2021, into the summer, into the fall. So we all had certain expectations. You know, we we knew about uh uh Black Widow, we knew about WandaVision, we knew about uh um um Captain America, Captain Falcon. See, I did it again. Falcon and the Winter Soldier. See, see, see, I did it again.
SPEAKER_06Captain America and the Winter Soldier.
SPEAKER_04Is that I mean, now it is at the end of it. I mean, if you want to go there. Um, and then of course, Loki, uh, what if um I'm not gonna mess up the name. I'm just gonna say 10 rings because I always mess up the name. I'm gonna stop right there.
SPEAKER_06You want to go to the Legend of the Ten Rings?
SPEAKER_04I just don't want to be corrected. Thank you. Uh, so we talked about all of the speculation of how these different shows and movies would lead into one another as we map our way to 2022 and kind of the larger named movies. But I don't think a lot of people were, you know, annoyed, which is weird because I enjoyed everything. But some people are like, oh, this was terrible, or oh, why did they do this? This show is so long. I don't understand. This shouldn't be placed here. Um, but other people were just delighted in seeing how Marvel and Disney decided to string these shows and these movies along to create this larger story moving into the next 10 uh 10 years of movies, if you will. At least that's what they say they're doing. Uh, so I'm gonna go one by one and uh ask each of our panelists what were their expectations leading into Loki? What do they feel they were going to grasp from this storyline from this show? And I'll give our guest D uh the first honor of telling us what they thought.
SPEAKER_07That's very sweet of you. Uh, for most of you who don't know, I am not the biggest fan of the MCU. I actually kind of royally dislike it. I'm a big, big movie aficionado and uh flip the table, right? See, you just wonder what what FTO stands for. There you go. Uh I uh I I'm a big movie person, and when it comes to film, uh this does not cut the snuff. So when it came to the MPU shows, like WandaVision, couldn't get past it three episodes in. Uh it was still the Lucy, uh I Love Lucy, the Bewitched, uh, I dream a genie style of uh storytelling. So I I thought the same thing was gonna be with Falcon Web Silver. This I was wrong, it was good, it was great. It was that very captivating. And Loki, I had like no no set or run read, none like whatsoever.
SPEAKER_06This is gonna be a fun episode.
SPEAKER_07When FT was involved, it was always a fun episode. But uh I I watched it, it's it uh it cap it's captivating. It's uh it had a lot of heart. Uh the the analog that the fans put inside of it, like that. There's a spoiler alert there's a a rogue Karen getting mad and thinking I'm like a black business. Karen. Like that's you know, that's a good way. That's a good way like to summarize it. And it's kind of hard to get that out of my head because that's all I can see now. And I guess it's good. It had a lot of heart, a lot of story, but you know, I didn't expect much, but I got I got something great.
SPEAKER_04So now that's interesting because one of our panelists um they stated that, well, both of them stated that they were interested in watching it, but then they weren't sure. And then when they started it, it was like, and they weren't, you know, then they were bribed. So uh shampoo bracelets, what was your and both of you actually can answer this question if you're available? What was your expectation before going into Loki? I know you heard a lot from what we said, I know you saw different, you know, TikToks or trailers or things of that nature. What was your thought process going into Loki?
SPEAKER_02Um, honestly, I personally had no expectations going into Loki. I saw the trailer and I was like, oh, I'll pass. Like I would have watched it if Shammy B wanted to watch it. But Loki's not that character for me that I can gravitate to. There are plenty of villains in the MCU universe that I would like to see. Like I would love a show with the background of Phantos. Just I think that'd be cool. Or eat like Loki didn't start hitting for me till episode five, almost six.
SPEAKER_04Oh, Jesus.
SPEAKER_02And I think six because of the villain that was there.
SPEAKER_04Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02Um trying to get past episode one for me was difficult. I fell asleep and Shammy B wanted to go play his new video game. Um, there were times where I was watching it where I had to pause and I was like, damn, I still got 20 minutes left.
SPEAKER_04Oh, Jesus. Oh, all right, all right, all right, okay. So we know how you felt going into it.
SPEAKER_06I just want you to be aware that you can still lose ownership of these wings.
SPEAKER_04See, and here's the bribery that's kicked in.
SPEAKER_06It's not bribery. Bribery is much nicer.
SPEAKER_04This is I'm sorry, threatening. Here's a threatening that's kicked in.
SPEAKER_02It's like I just Loki's just doesn't it, he doesn't do anything for me.
SPEAKER_04Fair enough. Like now, for someone who I know Loki does something for, Kaze Shinryu. You had your own uh reservations leading into Loki. What was your thought process going in? What was your anticipation as the anime uh anime? Jesus, as the show was about to start. I'm about to say, let me know something.
SPEAKER_06Don't tell her, don't bring in new information none of us knew about. Like, we can stop this episode right now and go watch it.
SPEAKER_05Um but no, I've uh uh come you know, coming off of uh reading a decent amount about Loki in the comics, especially in the uh the journey into mystery uh series, which is uh Marvel's kind of overall like magical series. So it's a lot of Doctor Strange, it's a lot of Loki, this you know, and anybody generally magical if it's it's time if it's time for it to kind of like Justice League Dark, if it's time for magical to team up. Yeah, you want, you know, it's gonna be a journey into mystery type thing. And and um and so I was kind of I was kind of uh looking for a lot of pulls from that because one, you know, one of the best things that uh you know like Kevin Feige and uh MCU do is that they uh they adapt they adapt these uh comic stories and and uh and update them so they can you know work in a uh you know in a in a film or show narrative. Because a lot of people either either don't know about the content or or they try to put do everything one for one. And that's not that's not how mediums work. Um but uh uh no, I was uh going into Loki, I was expecting a lot of uh what the MCU had kind of shown before, kind of lots of a lot of glorious purpose, uh a little bit more characterization. Um I was uh I mean given given how uh it started him grabbing the Tesseract and poofing, I had no idea what what the fuck specifically what they was about to do, or but he literally could have went uh went anywhere and as it and as it turned out any you know any win. But um uh yeah, I was you know, I was I was suspecting a lot of what we had before. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Um I I'm about to go to Black McCoy, but I believe D, you seem to feel adverse to uh Kaze's points.
SPEAKER_07Um it's just you know, it's the the grandstanding of the MCU. It's like it bothers me. I am a 20 plus year comic fan. Like some people would would put stigmas attached to me because of that reason, but uh glorious purpose that that's fucking core with me. Like, okay. But yeah, you know, you got you think what you think, man. Like you you love the comics too.
SPEAKER_05But uh well, to be to be to be fair, I wasn't glorious purpose wasn't defining the MCU and what they've done. Glorious purpose was kind of was in it was an encapsulation of of Loki's uh of what Loki's been about so far. Just like you know, it is it just his attitude. I that I was just saying Loki's gonna do more of what he did before. That's that's what I meant by glorious purpose, not I get you.
SPEAKER_07All right, you you haven't worried her for a second. Uh low Loki, like Loki currently in the MCU is a is a sex piece for like you know, like you know, like thirsty individuals who want to watch uh an attractive man do mischievous things. That's that's how I see Loki. That's period.
SPEAKER_06That's how that's how I see most of America, honestly.
SPEAKER_04Perfect timing. So, what was your uh step into Loki?
SPEAKER_06So I didn't, so I'm not a comic reader uh out of DC or Marvel. So the majority of my relationship to Marvel and DC are between their animated and you know, um animated shows, their live action shows and their movies and stuff, right? Um, so when it came to Loki, I didn't know what to expect. Um, I remember when they announced the show, I was confused, just like everybody, because like this nigga died. Uh but also I was I can admit that when the sh when uh when they announced that the show was happening and the show picked up where we last saw Loki um in Endgame. Yeah, in Endgame, I was very concerned because we had we got a a chance to have a lot of character development for Loki over this over the course of the MCU, um the person that he eventually became by the by the time of his death in Endgame. Spoilers, sorry if you hadn't seen Endgame. Um but also but yeah, but no, I was concerned because the the Loki that we were getting was like Loki straight off of the Battle of New York. Loki who hadn't who was only you know obsessed with the um glorious purpose, with these this intention of you know pursuing everything that he felt he was owed, and everything that he felt he deserved, and everything that he thought he was right about. Um so I was uh thoroughly surprised and elated and very uh much encapsulated by the very first episode. Um, because it was as though they they they were like, we didn't forget all the things that he went through, we didn't forget all the things that he learned and he knew about himself. But they it I was I was more surprised by the artful way in which that character was developed throughout that first episode to reach the point that they needed him to get to in order to continue along with this story. So my expectations going in were I I had none. I actually had more concerns than expectations, and um, but they complete they they thoroughly subverted a lot of those, or not necessarily subverted, but they handled them very well.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Uh Miss Sione, uh rounding out our panelists. What was your uh Loki's coming? What was your expectation?
SPEAKER_01I didn't have any expectations. I was actually I was actually shocked that Loki was getting a show because I didn't really see him as a character that was deserving a little show, really, for me. Um, and not saying that he's not an interesting character because he is, um, and his mythology is is bonkers and interesting, but um, I just don't see I never saw Loki as someone that needed a show. But I didn't see WandaVision, I didn't see Wanda or Vision having a show either, and it was phenomenal. So I was intrigued to see like how they were gonna go about it. And um I was, I was, I would say surprised because you know, I I didn't know how much content they would use to pull me in. I'm not a Marvel fan per se either. I'm I'm much more DC, dark horse, um, you know, vertiger fan. Yeah. You know, I'm I'm much more uh of a, yeah, I'm not a huge um Marvel fan, but Marvel for some reason does really better, does better shows, excuse me, does better movies than for years. Um and so that was something that, um, so yeah, that was something that I I thought was very interesting, um, you know, to see uh a character that I really didn't really care about, um, you know, get their flowers. And it was interesting. You saw a different side of Loki, um, you know, from what I'm usually uh accustomed to seeing, someone who is incredibly selfish and quite frankly, an asshole. Um, but you know, it was interesting to see that that vulnerability. And he could be also a character that never was given a chance to be vulnerable. So um, you know, and that was he was always kind of the black sheep of the family, um, you know, not not feeling being able to fit in. And so it was interesting to see that other side of him as well. Um, so it was, it was, I was surprised. Um, I wouldn't say I was jumping out of my seat, like, oh my gosh, like, oh my god, Loki's on. It was just like, okay, this is a nice watch. Like, this is a nice watch. Um, um, I think I gravitated more to Wandavision because I'm so I I gravitate to the the classics. I gravitate to the I Love Lucy and I dream a genie, like the Technicolor Day. Like, I I gravitate to that. So I have my biasness more so to how WandaVision was um directed. But looking, it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. I would probably give it like a solid B for me.
SPEAKER_04Who are you gonna give the grade? And all we're talking about is walking into the show, side, my my band.
SPEAKER_06The grades come later. Uh you may change your mind by the time we're done with this conversation. We talk about the beginning of the semester, you're already at finals.
SPEAKER_01I'm saying the first quarter was a B. See, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04All right, so uh real quick, my my I kind of similar to I think everybody almost kind of as a whole is just saying there were no expectations or there were no, oh, this is gonna be amazing, or oh, Loki deserves a show. I think everybody was kind of on the same uh page, like, oh, Loki's getting a show. Okay, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03Uh we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_04I was like, I'll buy it. Yeah, I've read it. Okay, this is uh I'll I'll watch it, I'll see what starts. I mean, only I think one uh couple, as I said, you know, wasn't even trying to watch it. They were uh threatened with a good time uh or lack thereof to watch it.
SPEAKER_06But um yes, what can I say?
SPEAKER_04So moving into our next question is, you know, and uh uh most about half of our panels have already kind of touched on it, you know, moving into the first and then second episode, uh uh the Black Monquoi kind of mentioned it, how you know we had this, you know, thought process or we had this understanding of what Loki is or who Loki is. Um and into endgame, you know, of course, as the Blackman Corey said, spoiler, he died. Uh so you know, we came to terms with you know who he was, or uh, you know, he tried to come to terms with who he was, interacting with his brother and you know, his place in the world and you know, his adoption, and you know, how not as strong as Harry he was. Uh hella he was. Um, but you know, at the end of the day, uh we now know who we we thought we knew who uh Loki was, but then coming into um the show, they started from the point of the battle in New York, right after it. So it's like, okay, he just got beaten up by you know Hulk, he you know doesn't have the Tesseract, he's standing there in handcuffs, gets poofed to a desert. Um, and then shortly after the TVA finds him or gets him, and then they say find. Um, so now that they've captured him, you know, a bunch of different things happen that literally break the character that we knew at the point of New York in Marvel or in the Avengers, um, break Loki down. Uh, you know, the glorious purpose, as everyone has well, three people have said more than once, um, was slightly shattered to the eventual what the hell uh by uh to Loki to the point where he doesn't even know what his purpose is. And that's kind of how the story starts off. It's like, let's break you down to your core, or even less then. So uh I think some of you have said it uh that you felt like this was a proper thing to do. This concept of breaking Loki down to below this mindset of what he was when we saw him in New York. Do you feel like it was necessary for this storyline, or do you feel like it was unnecessary? They should have done a different story altogether. Anyone can answer.
SPEAKER_07Uh yeah, like it would have been a boring show otherwise. Where it's a bit of a a guy who didn't care about nothing and wanted to still take over stuff and not believe in where he was. Uh showing showing like him dying, and then you know, seeing like like uh his brother grieve for him. Like, you know, think that that really snaps something inside of him, and then like finding out that they're the world and the universe, and like you know, the omniverse is bigger than he ever thought it was. It like I think like we needed to see that from him, and like he needed to go through that for us to even like come close to enjoying this show. But uh like uh like Shampoo was saying, like, we didn't have any expectation of what was going on, and some of us like just didn't really care to see what was happening. And like having that having that go on at that that mystique inside of it, it uh it kept me inside of it. And Loki is in an interesting character, like he's been or he's a legacy character, he's been around for X amount of years because like he is an interesting character, and like in uh playing with his with his his self, his entity, his his being.
SPEAKER_06These are gonna be fun, funny. These are gonna be fun.
SPEAKER_07It it it it changed like the experience of the show. Uh it gave me some respect for the MCU, even though like I don't really like hold this to like the same regard as the MCU. But um, much like how I how I see WandaVision, I feel like the show was uh put out or recorded like a few days before it aired. And like they took notes from like the fans online, like through Twitter, through Facebook, and and like something about the show, and like they wrote off that, much how South Park does every week when they come up with a show. They like they they speed wrote it, they speed uh directed it, and they they speed put it out. And like it worked. I like I liked it. Like I still thought it was like a good show. It it's it needed to be this way for Loki for us to even like enjoy this show, and like and like they did something pretty, as much as I hate to say this, they did something pretty magical with it.
SPEAKER_04Oh we got a magical, we got that recorded, y'all. Got that a record, yeah.
SPEAKER_07You did, yeah.
SPEAKER_06He's like this this pun is gonna really hurt me, but I'm gonna say it anyway.
SPEAKER_07If you if you use this as an ad promo, I'm not gonna go.
SPEAKER_04Never an ad. Never an ad. Okay, so uh anybody else, uh your your feelings.
SPEAKER_06Um, I think the I think that the the character derailment that they had to go through with Loki was absolutely necessary. Um, and that's largely because we were getting. We were getting a regressed version of Loki that we had already that we you know we'd already met. Um and honestly, when when you have a character like Loki and you have um and you need to be able to give them the opportunity to develop, like when we went met Loki, Loki had superhuman strength, uh reaction speed, Loki had magic, Loki had an army, Loki was a god. And what do you what else do you do to a god but strip them of all the things that make them a god in order to make the story interesting? So putting putting him into the TVA where all of his magic is gone, all of his raw strength, raw natural strength, even though it wasn't as much as Thor's, all that strength he had is is gone. Everything that he had when even before, even in Thor the Dark World, he was still a god. He was a prisoner. He was a prisoner to other gods, but he was still he was still on par with everyone else. And putting putting him into the TVA and everything that was revealed to him in that first episode, it was it, it literally minimized his character. It minimized his ego, it minimized his aspirations, everything that he thought he knew, everything that he thought he wanted, everything that he thought he was and thought he could be, um, or thought he wanted to be, was completely stripped away by the fact that your godhood is merely a formality in the face of something greater that allows it to be. And I think that putting for putting Loki into that kind of situation where he's just like everyone else in the face of this overwhelming force, it was necessary for just not simply because of the kind of character he is, but the ego that he had. And when you have a character at such as, you know, First Avengers Loki, who has this undeniably and unashamedly like mega megaloman uh megalomaniacal ego, like you need to you need to do everything that you can to strip that down to the nothingness that is necessary to start character development all over again that we had gotten over a series of films. In a tertiary sense, because we didn't even get all that like front word. Most of Loki's character develop development at best was secondary because he was never truly the focus of any film for real for real.
SPEAKER_07Um it's not like it's like a character reboot, essentially.
SPEAKER_06Kinda, yeah. It was like they it was like they retconned in real time. Like which I wow, yeah, which I can which I can throw which I can respect and appreciate because it's not as though they told us that you know Loki was going to, they had this whole storyline planned out for Loki um in the in the in the regular MCU before these shows came out, right? It was just that Loki's gonna get his own show and we saw Loki escape and in game. We don't know what the fuck, how that how what the fuck the implications are of that. We don't know what that's supposed to mean. And so, yeah, it was it was a great opportunity. And I um much like some of the other shows, it was a way for them, in my opinion, to uh engage different kinds of storytellings that they weren't doing in the MCU completely. Because one of the things about the MCU is that it's very formulaic, regardless of the film you move to. There's always a villain, there's always, you know, there's always a beginning and an end, there's always something, you know, that's that's being alluded to for the next film. But the opportunity with these shows, and you know, because they're films, because you know, they're focused on making sure that these films are box office hits, that they have money coming in so they can keep making them, is that they have to stick to a formula that works for the most part. Um by the time you move to these shows, um I love WandaVision because it broke the mold so, so, so radically that I was already invested. I'm like, okay, so this is the opportunity to tell a different kind of story that's not an MCU story, right? It's a chance to get that kind of character-driven narrative that we needed that we couldn't really get the full get fully in the MCU when it came to characters like Wanda, um, when it came to characters like um um The Winter Soldier now New Captain America, and when it came to Loki and how much more prevalent and important to the storyline they actually are. Disagreements?
SPEAKER_05No, I think I think we were all a lot of pretty much on the same page. I love I love uh uh I love how much of a you know, how much of a you know, stereotype uh, you know, look, you know, Loki was, even you know, from the MCU and and from the comics, and how they set, you know, like everyone else said, how they set everything up for uh uh you know, he really, he really needed um all you know all his uh all his toys and all his uh facades to be stripped away so he can actually deal with his actual problem, you know, this this this nigga is this lonely. And and um, so you know, so so take you know, so taking away uh I'm I'm really gonna they put him in that position where uh where he had nothing to you you know he had nothing to deal with but uh but himself uh in in in every sense since that is how the story uh story uh uh ended up, man. So, you know, not to Sione, did you have a point?
SPEAKER_01No, I agree. Um, I agree completely. Um, you know, you he was already at like max level. It's like when you play a game of dynasty warriors and your character is already leveled up. It's like, what do you what do you do with that? You know, it it gets boring because there's nothing else you can gain from learning about a character, so to speak. So that's how I felt about Loki in, you know, the other movies. That he was already like leveled up, so there's nothing for me to gain because I'm not I'm only seeing a two-dimensional character, so to speak, a trickster and someone who has powers, magical powers. That's it, that's all I got. And um, you know, I do I do agree completely that you had to completely strip everything to see who they are behind all of that. I didn't even know the nigga was lonely during all this time. Like I had I had no idea, you know, that was that didn't even cross my mind. I just thought that he was just so selfish and you know, a narcissist, which he is, but you know, he just wasn't, I guess, given the time to trust or to feel or or have that opportunity. So in the show, you know, you get to see that. And I I hope that the MCU universe does more of that with characters that are not huge showstoppers, so to speak. You know, you have a lot of other characters that are given backstory or that they allow us to see backstory, but the other characters we never see it, or we re or they make it so we don't care about seeing it, so to speak. So I think that's why a lot of us never really cared to even see the low-key series anyway, or it didn't have a huge impression, because we weren't given that opportunity to want to care. So um, I do like uh the humbling of characters, I do like seeing the background of characters and seeing why they are the way they are, um, whether it's a prelude to who they are in current day, or if it is uh a current situation and we now get to know who they are, we can appreciate more of them. I I I like the dynamic setting that a lot of uh, you know, superheroes or supervillains um that they're giving to us because you know, as children or even uh previous generations, they didn't have that. If if you did not read comics, I would say. Because I was not an avid comic reader um growing up. So all I had was based off of like cartoons. Um, so yeah, I I I agree. Um, I hope that I do see more of that going going forward with the MCU universe and just you know, any type of like superhero uh shows or movies that come out in the future.
SPEAKER_06You know a thought I just had that you made me realize. We do not know that what happened in what happened to Loki in the first episode or throughout the series is a better is a better version or more nuanced version of what happened to Thor in his first movie.
SPEAKER_00Huh. I agree. I agree, I agree.
SPEAKER_06Because you you had you had you had Thor was thrown to earth, lost all of his powers, couldn't access his hammer, Loki was abducted by the TV, abducted, abducted by the TVA, yeah, abducted by the TVA, all power is gone, like completely reduced to basic human form.
SPEAKER_07Oh dear god, so you just opened my mind to a whole world of like dislike when it comes to see you again. That that is that is their initial formula for for every film they've ever put out. Like I've said for a while that uh like Winter Soldier and Black Panther are the same film, along with Thor, along with Captain America, along with Wonder Woman. They're all they're all the same formula when it comes to to filmmaking. And like you just told me that this is the same thing, just you know, he was in prison instead. Wow, I didn't even put that together. Holy shit. You're welcome.
SPEAKER_02Literally just made him hate it even more.
SPEAKER_06You did well, I made him hate the MCU even more, and I and I and then you know, I showed them very early on that you know they have a formula by which they follow when it comes to these films, and I will never I will never take that away from them. And they keep use they keep washing it and reusing it because it's successful, but you know, but is it good? Is it good? That's a good question. I think it's good in isolated incidents. Um, as a whole, there are likely some um narrative issues that come along with that. Um I don't want to get into I don't I don't know if I want to get into the epistemological and pedagogical arguments that come along with the MC that I legitimately for the words that the Black Boy pulls out gloriously out their ass.
SPEAKER_01Like I just wish I had the vocabulary.
SPEAKER_06No, you don't, it becomes a burden someday. It is a much greater burden. It is not glorious purpose, it's a burden.
SPEAKER_05That's why it's good just to have the black record around because I was like, Oh, what's that? What's that word when it's like you're angry that you was kind of shading and you're kind of holding it in, and it's like it is like oh vexed. And I'm like, okay, cool, cool. Yep, yep. And you don't and you don't need to keep keep all that all that broadband yourself. You can know you can you know, you need your references. Yeah, no, yeah, but between you and the doctor, whoops, yeah. My my point getting across. I fuck with my mess, my messed up uh vocabulary, but but it's like I know the doctor's not on here.
SPEAKER_06I need him to know that I'm wearing I have my Doctor Who blanket and my Doctor Who and my Doctor Who scarf on because uh one Loki doesn't have like any time-riddled uh uh merchandise out there yet, but also he is because I was like, I need you on this episode.
SPEAKER_02But no, I think I think their formula is good because most people aren't gonna pick up what you just said. Nope. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like it's gonna go over their head that the NCU does the same thing repetitively, unless we have conversations like this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_02If you're not paying attention to it, you're going in there with no expectation, you're just like NCU's gonna put out a bomb ass movie. I'm gonna see my favorite characters, you know. You're not thinking, oh shit, they did this before.
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_02All right, well, still a good movie, blah blah blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_06And I also I uh yeah, I I I agree, I completely agree. Yeah, I mean like it's because it's for the masses and not just for like nerds and comic fans and stuff like that. Yeah, they're trying to pull in everybody.
SPEAKER_05Like, like, you know, like uh you know it's called it's called a formula for a reason because because it's think because it works out. So I think um uh I I think uh you can um you can have you can have different people using the the same the same formula and and what comes out uh you know that the just the formula doesn't dictate quality. There's a there's a lot of things that go in and around anything that you you know that you make. So I don't I don't think just just saying off the strength of that alone you could say like this is good or bad. Yeah, you know, I mean it's definitely a personal taste thing if that if it's something you just personally don't like, you know. So I'm sorry. But but uh but yeah, like there's uh you know, like the hero's journey and all the and all these other plot points that we that humanity's been like repeating ad nauseum since uh uh yeah, those there are interesting ones, there's good ones, just garbage ones. There's uh it's obvious it's obviously a spectrum, and and uh and the NC is no different. Nope.
SPEAKER_07Ione says something. I think I said her name correctly. I hope I did. Uh something about how indeed.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_07I think thanks for letting me know. Uh you you said that uh this is like a uh a thorough telling of a certain character, and like you got that same experience when you watch uh WandaVision. I'm assuming you get the same thing when you watch Captain America and Winter Soldier. That this is uh a more detailed story of uh of Loki and the character that we're seeing inside of this telling, as opposed to what we got into the film. We have more movies coming out, like Armor Wars, we got uh I think Ironheart, we got uh Miss Marvel, we got Moon Knight.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_07Uh it feels like uh like that's that's the detailed story that like they're they're trying to tell with the more complex characters, it's like having the having like the TV show like to really flesh out what they are and what they aren't. And like I don't much like how I don't really like like or care for one division, like I feel like like there's gonna be a lot of hit and misses when it comes to these shows. Like, do you think this uh this this theme, this train is gonna keep on running? Like, is it gonna be like as much of a hype for like the other shows like we have for Loki or Wandavision or Falcon and Winter Soldier? Uh is that still gonna be like like the case? Because these still are just like like mini-series, like uh, I think Kate, he released comics as well. It feels like it feels like mini-series. That's what is that's what this feels like right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think that the hype will continue. COVID really has been the catalyst to a lot of streaming platforms, so to speak. Um, you know, and also generation, there's a generational shift and change on what people watch. Like people don't have cable. No, well, the masses usually don't have cable right now. You know, they're streaming everything. Um, so you know, it's more so um, you know, you want to be able to just be at home, watch when you want to on your laptop, your iPad, i whatever you have. And so it's just you're at work. Yeah, exactly. Like it, we're in the gener, we're in the generation of accessibility when it comes to media, like incredibly accessible. We could watch the Olympics. I remember I was all I would always complain how I can never watch the Olympics because I'm always at work. Yeah, I can watch on my phone at work, you know. You know, there's there's so many things now that there's a new trend with media to make it as accessible as possible. Um, and then they're trying, I think COVID really pushed it. I think my, I mean, my theory that they would have tried to do this in the future, but COVID really made sure that they had to get this now because people are home, people are working at home. Um, and you know, you have students that are really not going out, so to speak, even going to the movies. Um, you know, the you could watch a movie that's in um in the theaters now and pop it up on HBO Max. So, you know, I feel like this trend is something that is going to be more long term um because it just makes life easy, so to speak. And I think it's great because now we have more content, and more content means that more people can be able to see different characters, different background characters, even with like the MCU universe. There's a lot of characters I didn't even know about. Like I think um nine rings or forgot what what the rings.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, ten rings.
SPEAKER_03Or if you like your net train, seven rings.
SPEAKER_01Right. So um, you know, I do think that this is a training, uh trend that will be long lasting until I guess something else pops up. But you know, it just makes things easier for a lot of people across the board. Uh, doesn't matter what their age is, um, you know, it's just the generational shift, and also because we are still in a pandemic, so to speak. Um, so I think that they're gonna try to push this as fast, you know, as far as they can, and they have so much content. I mean, probably uh I think even DC started doing the same thing with Watchmen, you know, uh the Watchmen movie came out, um, and I was fucking confused because I didn't even read the comics. And that Watchmen is more of like an 80s, 80s comic, I believe. And then they came out with the movie and I was lost. So when they came out with this, I was lost as hell. So when they came out with the show, I was like, oh, this is great, you know, and it gave me more substance again behind Dr. Manhattan, um, that I didn't even know existed. So I feel like they do need to continue uh with these backstories or these mini-series of characters because it you it makes it easier to connect, so to speak, you know. Not everybody can connect to you know, the big hitters, not everybody can connect to Spider-Man or you know, or um Thor. Um, I don't. So, you know, seeing that seeing that you have more characters to connect to gives more variety, gives more opportunity. So I do believe that they need to continue going on with this route.
SPEAKER_06I kind of want to add that I also, if you think about Disney's acquisition of Marvel, it's not that far-fetched because even Disney has made tons of extra mini-series, not even unless I call that call them mini-series specifically, but series that have spawned from their major franchises Aladdin, um, Hercules, um The Little Mermaid, Lilo and Stitch. So when I think about it in that format, I'm like, it kind of makes more sense now because Disney will keep churning out the coin out of the people that they can.
SPEAKER_07As she was saying that, like I'll think, like, this is like this is their Disney formula. This is literally what they do often. They they make a franchise, then they capitalize by making a little small franchise, then they they sell you the merch on top of that franchise, then they reverse it and like kind of redo the franchise or add something new, give them a kid, give them like you know, a partner, and then like they redo it all over again. That's kind of what Disney used to do.
SPEAKER_02That's what gets you though. I used to work in a Disney store. Let me tell you, then kids in there.
SPEAKER_06Why am I just finding out you used to work in a Disney store?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's really not. Um she knows which one it was. Like it could be princess merch all the way from this really old school type um comic book merch. Like, they don't care. And the parents they'll I've seen kids literally cry, scream, kick, throw a hissy fit, and the parents will just fold because at that point it's like it's embarrassing.
SPEAKER_06So they just buy it and were they melanin redacted parents? Wow.
SPEAKER_02No, they weren't.
SPEAKER_06It's all of the above. Oh, they were PG parents, got you. How dare you?
SPEAKER_00So I don't think these are they were AA parents.
SPEAKER_06Exactly.
SPEAKER_00I know what that means. That's great.
SPEAKER_06AA parents, PG parents, same thing.
SPEAKER_00So no, it's not.
SPEAKER_07It's not. We're gonna have to talk about these acronyms after the show.
SPEAKER_04He's like, you ain't just gonna leave me out of the conversation.
SPEAKER_07Like I'm a I'm a parent, I have no idea what you guys are saying.
SPEAKER_05Like, I might be all these days, I'll talk to you.
SPEAKER_06And the more hilarious part is that the aside from trample races, none of us are parents.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so yeah, this I think this was this was when I had Maddie too. So, you know, for me, it was easy to just grab her some merch. But um, on side note, I do agree with Sayon that I felt like this the streaming heaviness was coming. I think COVID just kicked it in the overdrive. Yeah, it was only a matter of time before you were able to stream movies that came out in the movie theater the same time. I'm like, I was literally just waiting for it to happen because not everybody wants to go to the movie theaters and pay $30. And then if you are a concession stand person, that's even more. So it was it, I think COVID just kicked everything, even with schools and online learning, it in the overdrive.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, Disney just took the vaccine concept and used it on their streaming platform. We got to kick it out as fast as possible. Bow, now everybody has it, and you can watch everything.
SPEAKER_06So I don't think that the even if they are just in a mini-series to supplement the MCU. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, because I think one of the things that we've always demanded more of as a consumer base is more storytelling. Like we want to know more. Where we as a not even just as a consumer base, but as a people are inclined to be more curious about the folks who we are seeing on screen. Um, which is why, partly why like having an extended universe like Marvel has has become so normalized and so sought after in a lot of different ways. Like being able to To understand these characters in a more nuanced way to have deeper conversation. And especially because you know the silver screen and the small screen at home are such traditional ways to communicate values, to talk about different, you know, situations, issues, and stuff like that. You know, it just gives us the opportunity to not specific, not necessarily invest more in a capitalistic way, but to invest more of our understanding into the possibilities that we have in our like our very conscious reality, if that makes any sense. Like what we see on screen translates to and fro from what we live in our day-to-day lives.
SPEAKER_04Now, not to completely cut off that train of thought. Let's actually get back to the show at hand and talk about some of the concepts. So we've talked about, of course, what we thought before we came into the show. We talked about what we thought on the first episode. So, you know, on the first episode, you know, uh, they broke down this God with glorious purpose down to this individual who's being captured and being utilized. Uh, I honestly, I think one of the biggest things that snapped him was just seeing the the infinity stones use as paperweights. That kind of got me too. Of course, you would turn on your camera and look glorious. How dare you? Um so yeah, but uh, you know, using the right, uh using the infinity stones as uh paperweights. And then, you know, after that, it was like, well, what the hell am I? Then he of course sees himself, you know, die and his brother mourn, and then you know, now he's you know bare bottom, right? I mean, granted, there's still a little bit more they could do, but you know, that's where he is. So moving on, then we get into episode two, episode three, very the variant as well as Lamentis. And with the variant, now you know he's getting the understanding of why Mobius has brought him into this space because at first he was just there to be tried and what's the word pruned? Yes, pruned.
SPEAKER_06No, they were initially gonna reset him. Yeah, I could have sworn that he was on trial to be pruned, but afterwards they said to have they said to have him reset. It wasn't until later when he escaped and started causing problems. They're like prune this nigga.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay. Then they're gonna reset him first in the at the trial.
SPEAKER_04Sure. So reset first, then eventually pruned. But it's gonna be reset, and then Mobius said, Hey, we can use him to find the other uh variants. And then, of course, eventually in the show, we find out who the variant is. Now, when they revealed exactly what who the variant was that they were specifically going after at that time, were you confused? Were you uh was this something that you expected? Do you think this was a good plot twist? Uh, in terms of the storytelling, when you determine who this initial variant was, uh, I mean, uh D has already kind of given uh their um unique identifier to this specific variant. Uh, but let's hear everybody else's uh identifier to when they felt uh this uh uh variant was this uh was was unveiled.
SPEAKER_07Um I am just going along with it, like with what the majority is saying about this variant. Uh just putting that out there. I no longer no more like confirm or deny that I agree with that in that character.
SPEAKER_06I will say that when I was re-watching the series for this episode, I definitely had that in mind. And I did. And I and I and part of me, part of me definitely wanted that to be like the firm case, but I was also like, well, this is a bit more complicated than that. Um, I do think that she definitely had that Karen fervor to like not stop because she kept going.
SPEAKER_03Okay, kill the manager, yeah.
SPEAKER_06But right, right. She she definitely was she was definitely going after to kill the manager. She was just like, but or take down, like she was definitely trying to put in her complaint to take down the corporation. But um, I think that, but but you know, aside from that, I don't regardless of how I don't want to say inexcusable, regardless of how understandable her actions were, that didn't necessarily make them the best courses of the best course of action. She was, I think she was very much um relatable as to why she did what she did, because that's I know that we've seen many characters relatable. Relatable to who? Huh? Relatable to who. No, I mean like as far as you know I'd say to all of us, like she was kidnapped as a kid.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, like she was taken as a child. Like, like I can't.
SPEAKER_06Without any reason. Without any reason.
SPEAKER_04I'm not fighting what you said. I just want you to explain to people who who who she's relatable to.
SPEAKER_06Oh, I think any anyone who I would in a general sense, anyone who has been, you know, um horrifically wronged, and the people who wronged her didn't provide any explanation, and there's no recompense, like there's no retribution for how she was wronged. And she has, and she has to be the one to, you know, take up arms for herself in order to, you know, reap whatever justice she feels though she's owed. Um I think that, and I also meant relatable in the sense that, you know, we've seen a lot of characters act in this way. We've seen a lot of characters, you know, have this very um linear path of vengeance that they've been on the entire time. That's that's that's more so what I meant. Like we we can relate in that way in so far. We we know a lot of characters, and so I can say some people who've supported characters who have had this very narrow, like, yep, go for it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Um people who have blindly followed certain characters, not knowing what they were really about, and saying that this is what my this is what the character does, and I do it too. I'm like, that's not what the character was about at all. Yeah, you know, I'm not gonna say any names. Please don't say any names.
SPEAKER_06But um, I think that the thing that made her stand out to me the most, and it was a very small moment, but it was a huge moment at the same time, was when they were in the L they were with in the elevator with uh Judge Renslayer.
SPEAKER_04Yes. You whoa, you've gone like two episodes forward. Are you are you what's going on?
SPEAKER_06Oh, my bad. I'll I'll save that for later then. Thank you, Gracie. But um, yeah, no, no, no. Just on that fact that you know, we've we've when you find out what had happened to her and you find out what her actual goal is as compared to the original Loki, uh well, our Loki that we come in knowing, Tom Hiddleston. Um it is a very, very fun and very um, I want to say politically driven. Um uh ironically speaking, politically driven uh motivation as compared to to Loki. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Kazi. Yeah, so so lay uh Lady Loki is probably one of my favorite uh iterations of Loki. Uh uh, she was she she was she was she was on some other shit uh after Ragnarok after. Uh so I was 100% ready to uh to see her. I was uh I was initially confused because I was like, who's this blonde?
SPEAKER_06Uh Loki, that kind of bothered me too.
SPEAKER_05And but but you know, and later I've yeah, and later I found out it was uh based on a character named Sylvie Sylvie Lushton, who uh later who became uh an version of Enchantress and uh Young Adventures. So I was like, okay, okay, Loki has something to do with that character too, in the sideways set. So I was like, okay, I see y'all. They often like do little fusion uh characters and stuff when they're uh you know making iterations for the so for the screen. So that was that was cool. I would I would you know I would prefer my lady oakly, but it's cool. Like it was cute. It was um so no, I was uh I was ready for a version of this, but you know, seeing it, but seeing as this didn't exist until they made it. Uh uh yeah, I think I think I was as close as you could uh as you can uh get to yeah, guessing who it would be.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04Um real quick before I go to Miss Sion A, uh D, I uh you brought up a point about them, you know, uh uh writing and recording and directing quickly, you know, certain, you know, movies and shows because of the using the times and then putting them out based off of what's going on. Do you feel that at its core, you know, your description of said variant is based off of the times, or do you feel like it has nothing to do with it? Not saying that the character didn't really exist, but you you made a specific point. And now when you look at it, it's kind of like, well, if it's based off the times and they did it quickly and they're like, hmm, let's use something that people can relate to. Do you feel like that's the case?
SPEAKER_07Uh I won't say first of all, I don't subscribe to calling characters like the lady version of a predominantly male character. But uh I will say like osmosis is probably the name of the game when it comes to this. It may have been intentional, but it's definitely probably put itself out there, like inadvertently. Uh Karen's were talked about 2020 was a real thing. We all saw tons of videos of people who were uh living, uh getting interactions with a bunch of white women. And like I feel like through osmosis, we got we got this story. Like, that's honestly like what I think had happened with this. So, like, may not have been intentional, but it definitely happened.
SPEAKER_06It was very art imitates life.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_04Definitely. Okay, I just wanted to get that clear. The side name seems slightly busy. So, uh shampoo bracelets, what was your feeling? Um, I I know you you you trudged through uh the first episode. So uh when you were reached the second episode, uh, I kind of want to know once you got to the end of it, what what was your feeling about one the variant and then two what seemed to be happening?
SPEAKER_02Um I was actually happy that it was a female because I just, you know, you don't see too many female characters just kind of jumping and taking the lead like that in a male kind of dominant show for that. Um I thoroughly enjoyed watching her throughout. I think she was very headstrong. I think she came in there with a mission, like, you know, someone has wronged me and I need to take control of it. I need payback. I need to figure out why you uprooted me from my family and then erased everything. Um now I do feel like I I felt like she should have taken out the judge first and then went to you know the comp the other villain that we'll get to later, probably.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Um I enjoyed her as the other Loki. I didn't really care for the later Loki's as much, but I would love to see more development into her story after you know what happens to her after she achieves her goals.
SPEAKER_01Sorry about that. Um, so let's see. My favorite character, my favorite variant Loki would have to be like the alligator. Isn't that weird?
SPEAKER_05It's not very umbrella, it's not weird at all. Not at all. Everybody loves Crocs Loki.
SPEAKER_01I love the alligator because it was just so left field. Like, what personality can an alligator give me? The alligator gave it all to me, and I love the alligator. Um, I love the the fight scene. I think because I don't know. Of course, yes, you know, the female Loki was was interesting. She wasn't my favorite character though. I love the the alligator and the older Loki. They're my favorites, they were amazing. I feel like the older Loki has like a bet like more power than the main character Loki.
SPEAKER_05To me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, he was yeah, he was overpowered, he was just phenomenal. Um I think he was kind of seen as the clown. So for him to kind of be seen as like the clown to be like omega level power, even Loki was like, what the fuck's going on? Yeah, you know, so I really appreciated him. I appreciated him because I forgot his backstory, so to speak, but I don't think he really had like had the ability to kind of like shine.
SPEAKER_05And he finally no, no, he he won. That was his backstory. He's won and he got bored, and then he and then he got and then he got caught up doing some bullshit after he won, and that's when the TVA snatched him up.
SPEAKER_06No, no, no. It was that um he he basically no, it was that he basically lived the same timeline that Loki lived, like he transformed himself he made a he made a copy of himself that fooled Thanos and he hid as rubble. And then after that was done, he left, he escaped, and he lived in solitude for that entire time until he realized like fuck, I miss my family.
SPEAKER_04I missed and then he went to go see him and snap.
SPEAKER_06And they were like, oh shit, wait, they're like, nah, nigga, nope, that's not what you're supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_02What Loki are you talking about? I was hoping the kids doing something.
SPEAKER_01The older Loki, the one who did classic Loki. The classic Loki. Um, yeah, the classic Loki to me was absolutely amazing. Um, you know, just the power and and how he just he just seems like I thought he was kind of like not all the way there, which which was very interesting because he just looked so just so out of place. And then to find out that he is actually the strongest Loki, I was like, this is insane. And um, you know, but him and the crocodile for me, yeah, I would love to see like a show with them.
SPEAKER_07If I could ask Kazai, like uh again, like I know Kazi, like you're a combo guy, uh seeing that's in that classic Loki pop pop-up and like you know, him having the aesthetics of classic Loki. Do you think like they did him justice with him like in this show?
SPEAKER_05Uh grandma, I told you I would tell you that should be the after the show, right? Like we had a whole conversation. Um I don't I don't know if justice is the right word. I think I think I think they uh brought him brought him in and uh you know iterated him in the in the best in you know in one of the best ways that they that they could have. Like even the way that uh cuz because you know, because there's having an old fashion costume, and then there's like actually trying to uh uh you know look good in it. Like he was such an obviously like well worn, like that shit was like real shabby on him. It was loose. Uh, you know, it was uh it would, you know, after figure after figuring out his backstory, it was definitely uh he definitely looked like somebody who lived the uh you know lived, you know, lived the low-key way. You know, he he he almost seemed like a uh a uh uh you know almost like a Christmas carol thing when they and it's like oh you know, here's here's your future where you do that thing you think you want to do. And it turns out awful. So so that's so that's what um yeah, that's uh I I love I loved he was uh I love that he was in there. I love that they made him uh uh you know look the you know look the way he did and then do what he did to to to very specifically bring about that uh reaction that Sayone had. It was like, what the fuck, who was this? Why he looked like this? And then uh, but but you know, but then then you then you look up the the shit old Loki used to do, and it's like oh mm-hmm, mm-hmm, oh so no, I was pretty happy with uh with how they did him.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so we talked about the variant. Um Lamentis, uh random planet that they decided to uh air this particular well, it's probably not random. Um actually, was that random for our comic book watchers? Was Lamentus a uh popular spot? Any references from any comics? Maybe, but I don't remember.
SPEAKER_07Uh I'm not a Marvel cosmic fan, so I fair enough. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yep, just thought I'd ask. Okay. Google awaits. Oh Lord. Um, yes, but no, with Lamentis, um, you know, our our characters, you know, they plot a course, they plot a plan to uh because you know, they uh uh Aura Loki, I'll use you say that way, uh, you know, used the tempad, got them, you know, thrusted into this planet with one of the uh Nexus points. Uh once they, and then, you know, they're trying to, she knows that the planet is about to go up in dust because she's already been there before, she's done her research about it. Um, and then she they're getting ready to find a way off the planet before you know everybody dies. Um so after they determine and find out that they have, you know, uh, as uh uh D had put earlier, um, an interaction between oneselves and then eventually the TVA specific was it Mobius? I think it was Mobius that noticed the nexus point of the spike, and that's how they found out where they were. I believe that's how it went. Anyone want to correct me?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was that they created the nexus point when they were holding hands. That's how they found them.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So, and then you know, they they arrested them, and you know, now you know they're interrogating them separately, and you know, he's using you know certain tactics to try to get Loki to talk and all this or Loki's to talk. Um now the turn of B15, I think is a very interesting point in this show. And it wasn't much of a turn as much as you know, she told she she she swore up and down that uh the female Loki had, or Sophie, I'll say Sylvie or Sophie? Sylvie, sorry, Sylvie. Uh Sylvie had, you know, be bewitched her, betwixt her, and you know, caused her to, you know, believe or be uh uh think that she was doing something wrong, but she said no. All I did was took actual memories that you had inside of your head and I gave them to you, uh, or allowed you to see them. So, how do you feel about the awakening of B-15? And do you think this particular character's uh uh uh awakening is necessary for the continuation of the story from that point on?
SPEAKER_06Yes, absolutely. But to answer the um lamentous question, it did make an appearance um in a comment in a storyline called Annihilation Conquest. Um it's a Cree planet, it's on the outskirts of Cree space, so it's in the Kree's uh solar system. So we're wrapping back in that Captain Marvel relationship where we're using a Cree planet.
SPEAKER_04Lovely.
SPEAKER_05Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_04A planet she didn't save. Oh, she's gonna be mad about that.
SPEAKER_05Uh the moon is made up, but the planet exists.
SPEAKER_04Ah, there we go. Okay. Uh, but oh wait, G, you were about to say something. It seemed like you were not happy about it.
SPEAKER_07It was just annihilation, like it has like a big, a big reputation behind it, even though I haven't read it. It's just like, yeah, it's like it's I love annihilation. So it's nice to hear people talking about like in a way that's so casual. It's just like, wow, you uh you just said like it was nothing.
SPEAKER_06It's uh I have no reference point, so I get it. I get it, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, a lot of annihilation is big shit. Annihilate.
SPEAKER_04So, how was everybody's feeling about the awakening of B15?
SPEAKER_06Oh, I thought go ahead, please.
SPEAKER_07Uh I it felt like a white saver moment, but like you know what happened. Yeah, sorry. Um, like I'm glad it happened, but I feel like you know, if it had like more substance, it felt like a plot device, essentially. Like, you know, it did. Like it just it felt like it's like okay, we need someone like that to help out Loki and help out Sylvie like in their journey to take down this uh this major threat who is like a possibly the person who's controlling all of this. So let's uh let's awake B52 or B15 and uh and see where this goes because you know like she's an awesome character, fans seems to like her, so let's uh give her more of a talking role.
SPEAKER_06And she was in Lovecraft Country. Good on your come up, girl. Let's see you. Listen, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I was so proud to see her in this series. I was just like, show money. Come all D. Right. But um I I wanna agree, but I I would if like they hadn't had what was it, C-20?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, C20 Burn Walker.
SPEAKER_06C20 was the first uh TVA agent that we saw get kidnapped, and we see having had the same situation happen to her that happened to B-15. And I think that was them, I I see it more so as them using B-15 as this more kind of dedicated zealot in the same way that Mobius was to the TV. Let me finish. Uh dedicated zealot to the TVA and its cause in the same way that Mobius was, right? But then you have this series of events that, you know, for all purposes have nothing to do with her, that are um that reveal to her that um the world that she knew is a fiction, that everything that she's dedicated her life to is a lie, or that everything she thinks she dedicated her life to is a lie in the same way that B20, like the same way that she used B20 when she was using her enchantment, and she was like, Yeah, I just, you know, I'm I I wasn't putting anything in there. I can only use what's already there. I can only manipulate the ideas and the thoughts and the memories that are already there within you. And so when she did that to B15, B15 was kind of like the what we were so what we could have gotten with C20. I feel like it might not be C20, but I know it's a 20. But C20. C20. What we got, what we didn't get with C20 because this very efficient bureaucracy had enough power and wherewithal to snuff that shit out before it got anywhere else. And because B-15 was supposed because we had more time with B-15 mostly, we knew we knew her from literally the very beginning of the show. So it was it made more sense for her as a primary, or we'll say secondary, secondary, tertiary character to carry forth this mission in which that wasn't even really like the main uh the main goal of anyone in the show, um, but to give more information to us as viewers that the TVA is is not what we think it is. Um, in the same way that the TVA isn't what they think it is. So I saw that more as a as a as a lens into the the the the um I want to say the structure of the story, but that's not what I'm trying to say. The structure of the the the I will say the plot device that was the TVA.
SPEAKER_07Shout out to Sasha Lane of Utopia. I'm just putting it out there. Uh also shout out to Sasha Lane, C20 of Utopia Fame from Amazon.
SPEAKER_06Just putting it out there. I was gonna start a whole conversation because I didn't I didn't watch the show, but I heard things about it, so we'll we'll save that for later. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I was gonna say I agree with the black McCoy because um B15 was that character that you thought was unbreakable. Like she was that strong-willed character that worked for the TVA that's cool. Right.
SPEAKER_03Right, right.
SPEAKER_02She wanted to get rid of all the Loki's. She didn't care what you are a variant, you should not exist. I'm gonna bring you. So to see that she had that moment of weakness when the other female Loki, you know, got in her mind. I I think that was a good turn of events that needed to happen because she was the strong that can carry the rest of the other agents and say, Hey, something's wrong here. Let me show you. Like she did with the other agent when she took him to the classroom for the judge.
SPEAKER_06Yes, absolutely. Okay, I'm proud of her back in the past.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_04Okay, no, and what I was gonna say, uh, the black employee, when you were when you were speaking, I was only uh asking or was going to ask, did you, or maybe to everyone, do you actually feel that what the I don't even call it a manipulation, but the the the ability that was used on C20 was at the same potency or strength as when it was used on B-15. I personally don't think it was. I think C20's was a lot long standing, and she was specifically trying to get information out of her about the um um, I don't know why their names are drawing a blank in my head. Anyone, please give me their names.
SPEAKER_06What head of the TBA.
SPEAKER_04The the timekeepers? Thank you, the timekeepers. That's drawing a blank. Um, yes, but she was trying to get that information out of her because she was the only one who knew, but with B-15, she was just slowing her down when they were inside the, I mean it wasn't a Walmart, but inside of the you know, the megastore. It was a Walmart.
SPEAKER_03Um it was not a Walmart, it was a it was a Rockstar.
SPEAKER_07Uh if uh if you guys follow the comments like Rockstar is like one of the major antagonists of door, and like they are like the evil corporation of the Marvel Universe.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_07Oh sorry, but this is still one for one.
SPEAKER_04Um anyway, um, did you feel like the potency was the same between C20 and B15? Like I said, I don't feel like it was, but I think so.
SPEAKER_06I think the potency was the same, but the application was different. And I say that because we saw her with C20 trying to get information. So we saw her insert herself in C20's memories. Um but with B with B15, I almost said B20, um, with B15, it seemed more like, and I apologize for the way I phrase this, but it seemed more like a it seemed more like a reverse sucking, a reverse sunken place in so far as she pushed her con. It's it seems like because we just saw huh? Yeah, not even suppressed. Well, yes, suppressed, but like when we saw her take over B15 from like the person that she had, she it B-15 woke up from this daze, like what the fuck is going on? Because she she didn't manipulate B-15's memories in any way, right? She just suppressed her consciousness into the memories that were already there, right? And put her own consciousness forward as the primary one, having complete control over all the functions and so on and so forth. Right. So while I don't think the potency was different, I think it's the application itself. Because I think, and I say that because also say that because when you get into magic, magic has this weird, well, I don't want to call it weird, but it there's magic is systemic in its own way, in the same way that science is. Like magic system might of magic without a functioning system is complete chaos and it's terrible for any any narrative that's driven by the concept of magic.
SPEAKER_07You're about to prove a WandaVision point in a second, but you don't have to rule build with magic, otherwise, like it will collapse on itself. Agreed. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Even if you don't communicate all the rules, you need you need to make your system yourself and refer to them when you're using them, even if you're not gonna tell us and give give us a lot of things.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's a very classic writing rule. Like you show you don't always have to tell things, like things that you need to tell, you tell. But mostly the rule, the the rule of the pillar rule of writing is show, don't tell. And they showed a lot of Sylvie using her powers to you know take over people's bodies, um, get into them, get into their memories. Otherwise, you know, as far as we know, she doesn't have a lot of other, you know, magical powers. That's the only one that she was really able to get a grasp on and utilize all this time. And so whenever I say time, I think uh anyway. But um, yeah, no, no. I think it's just uh I think it's that's why I say it's more probably more so an application situation, um, rather than one of them was more of an the what is it?
SPEAKER_02Uh interrogation tactic. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And then one was more about interrogation. The other one's like, I'm the pilot.
SPEAKER_02Let me borrow your body for a couple seconds. Yeah, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05One was rummaging through rummaging through the closet in the dark.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05And the other one was like, Oh, let me turn the lights on. It's like, you know, it's here. So you just think right here.
SPEAKER_02Like you figure I'm interrogating you, so I'm gonna keep interrogating you and messing with your mind until I get what I need. And if you don't give me what I need, then I'm just gonna keep messing with you. So, like the lights were on off, on, off, on, off. So she probably just got excuse my turn, ramp through a little bit longer than pineapples herself.
SPEAKER_06But I also think that like it it showed that Sylvie can't displace one's consciousness, like she can't remove it from the body, she can only manipulate what's already, she can only manipulate it as it already is. She can play around with it, but she can't do anything to it specifically. No, as as as as um as extreme as destroy, well, I don't know, because it never came up. Um, you know, with uh with you know, some disclaimers obviously with saying that you know she can't destroy, she can't create or destroy any other memories or any other extra consciousness. She can only use what's already available. So kind of using this kind of law of you know creation and destruction as a rule for her powers since she can't create more memories, she can't just well, we're gonna assume, I'm going to assume that she can't destroy them either.
SPEAKER_04I mean, she kind of said that when she was talking to B5 uh B15? B15, yeah. Are we saying, Kazer?
SPEAKER_05Uh no, I was gonna say even, yeah, I mean, you know, let's let's not act like that. Uh uh that uh showing, you know, telling you know, telling people showing people the truth in a very specific context context is is one of the best ways to lie. But given you know what what they showed and what they did, we don't, you know, we have no reason to believe that that's what she was doing. Uh that's probably something more that regular low key would do. Yes. Um after after he figured out how to do that. Um but and and you know, and going back to the uh previous question of uh of uh it being important for uh was it B15? Yes, yeah. I remember I was none of these numbers. I I was just like up Lovecraft Lady and throwaway guard, thank you.
SPEAKER_06Not throwaway guard, yeah.
SPEAKER_05C20. I think it was like I think it was I think it was I'll go with throwaway guard if she comes back up there. Um but um but no no I think uh uh you know I I I love that she was in the show, but I was I was curious from the very beginning as to why B15 was getting so much screen time. And and that was uh and that moment was very uh telling for me for where this uh the this whole uh this whole fiction was of the TVA was uh it was a very lightly wound uh thing. It was a very loose facade. It was it was like if if not for the fervor of of of the people that they program, uh you know, them them niggas talking, uh having a meaningful conversation uh together would have would have undid all this shit. But that's not something that uh that was ever allowed to happen. And you know, and I think that's something that's you know, a lot a lot a lot of things. Uh I no, I'm saying if they were had if I I think if uh uh if was who's the head girl, night night, whatever. What Judge Renslayer? Yeah, Ren Slayer. Oh, okay. I don't know, I remember not these days, but but yeah, it sounds like you were thinking about Misty Knight, and I understand we're not gonna get a single black people, but but yeah, but if like you know, Ren Slayer and Morbius, the D15, and all you know, all the people who actually had faces in this thing. I'm saying if they were allowed to sit in a room and have a meaningful conversation and ask actual questions about about the TVA without Ren Slayer shutting shit down and and you know and lying, even though she was feeding lies that she was lied, you know, that she was giving herself. But it just didn't seem like it was everything was very uh like like it like literally like uh like low Loki Loki told told that thing to Moby instantly. He's like and then shit started going, he started connecting dots, and it was kind of like uh, you know, it just didn't it it this was not like some grand illusion that that was taken down. It was very like uh yeah, it just tell telling them niggas anything. It was it they'll believe it because people do, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And and I and I I'm glad you said that because like one of the things that stood out to me the most about this part about the show was the TVA itself and how it was a very explicit allegory for like the danger of bureaucracy because you saw Mobius that that like initial conversation between Loki and Mobius and Loki talking about you know, you never like for all intents and purposes, never questioned or even thought to you know really um engage with this reality that you're supposed to be living. And Mobius is like, this is all I've ever known. And you know, Mobius is defending himself insofar as you know, this is all very known, I'm happy with it, then you know, I'm I'm just lucky that this is the one I've been dropped into. And it's interesting because like I remember in real time having conversations with people about actually questioning a lot of the systems and structures and experiences and things that they had to encounter or even make themselves complacent with throughout their day-to-day lives. And it's like you never have really sat down and had a real critical interrogation with this thing to fully understand it. And it's like, well, why should I? And part of the part of the um part of the conversation with the show is like you should, because you might be being lied to this entire time. And like once Mobius learns the truth, then he's like, oh shit. Like that's that that's why that moment with Sylvie and you know the conversation where Mobius with Loki, where Mobius learns the truth, like it's it's it's it's more impactful on a on a very personal level, on a very general level for a lot of people, because it's like a lot of people don't have those conversations because it would literally break the foundations of how they understand the world. And not everyone is ready for that. It's something really heavy to deal with. And a lot of people don't have the capacity, in my personal opinion, to really engage with themselves in a way. And even if they do, it's such a fear, like it's even if they do, I find it to be extremely limited to being able to use their own internal machinations and logical systems that they formulated for themselves to continue to validate their relationship to whatever they've been assimilated into in the first place. But that's not the case in this show, except with Judge Rensla, well, not even with Judge Renslayer, but yeah, before I get too deeply into that rabbit hole, it was such a large motif that's kind of glazed over, which is why I'm glad they have a season two.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, ooh, ooh, I mean, yeah, I I definitely agree. Like that is um definitely having in well and cut, beautiful guys, dynamite. Oh, hey, see you there, listen to our podcast. Uh, thank you for coming in. But uh, we had to cut this uh a little bit short. So uh we're gonna have the second part of the Loki episode coming to you next week. So please stay tuned uh and then be you know on the edge of your seat for what our panelists have to say next.