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The Blerd Queue: Loki Review Part 2
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We managed to swipe a Tempad but the TVA is still hot in our trail. Hurry! You have to get through this episode before we're all pruned!
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For all time, always. Welcome back to the second part of the Loki episode. We are back with all of our panelists giving to you what you have been waiting for for an entire week, the rest of our conversation on Loki. Let's talk about Loki. So going into the next section, I really was about to go into that. Uh going to the next section. So, you know, we talked about the fact that they've now been captured uh off of uh Lamentis, uh, taken back to the TVA to being interrogated to trying to figure out, you know, who caused the Nexus event, where where what happened to the other Loki, what was your plan, what was the end goal? You know, Loki's now because he has um uh fallen in love with himself, has uh now we're trying to figure out he he's trying to protect uh uh Sylvie while uh trying to figure out what he's going to do next. And then he's put inside of that uh that uh repeating uh I don't remember the name of the chamber, uh, but that repeating chamber uh time chamber or something like that, isn't it? The what?
SPEAKER_06Wasn't it just called like a time chamber or something?
SPEAKER_00Highly possible. I don't remember either. I'm trying to pull it. Uh does anybody remember the name of the chamber? Anybody?
SPEAKER_02Anyone at this at the time I called it I called it something from the first time I saw that in another fiction, but I don't I don't remember what that was.
SPEAKER_07We'll call it we'll just call it the cell.
SPEAKER_00It was, I think it was a time prison.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so uh uh time prison where he's you know stuck in this time loop, getting you know punched in the face and then kicked in the nuts over and over again uh to you know learn a lesson about something, I suppose, or I guess. But at the end of the day, Mobius is just trying to get him to tell some type of truth, all while on the outside, Mobius is finding out the truth for himself. Um, and then once he does, he finally believes what uh Loki has been telling him. And then they decide, okay, let's let's do this. Well, they don't really decide anything. Mobius says, I'm gonna do this. Loki, you're coming with me. So now they're moving on to this next section where uh as the Black McCoy was saying, you know, Mobius is now trying to figure out what the truth is, trying to figure out what exactly like Loki's been saying it the or asking questions the majority of the time. He shows back up and now he's like, everything you know is a lie. He's like, the hell are you talking about? But now he's figured it out. At least at the what was it, the hearing of C20? Not the hearing, the um interview.
SPEAKER_07I'll call it the interview.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the interview of C20, where you know Judge Renslayer is, you know, uh uh erasing information, is the best way I can say it. Um, and now he wants to inquire why, what would be the purpose? She was obviously acting, you know, weird when we found her, and it looked like she had vital information to figuring out what's going on, but you just disregarded her altogether, and it seems like you're lying. So now that we're at this point, what was your feeling moving into this? Because now this mystery has turned into a widespread um expose, if you will, where he's trying to uh unveil the secrets of the TVA that obviously this person who says they are trust the trusted friends, we've known each other for years, always and forever. Was that it? That wasn't always and forever. Oh, always thank you for all time. Um and but now it seems like everything she could potentially be telling him is a lie. Where was your mindset? Where was your thought process of the story as we're moving into this section? Um, what was your feeling about Judge Renslayer about Mobius, Loki's place and all this, uh, the timekeepers? We haven't even seen them yet. We're moving towards that point, but now we're specifically talking about this new uh uh research, this deep dive into what uh Mobius is trying to find. Where was your mind at? And we'll start with uh Sayone and the newly joined um Mr. Flame, uh Talonflame. What were your feelings about this?
SPEAKER_01There, you know, I I I remind I remembered when Mobius in the beginning of the episode, beginning of the series, was uh talking about like how he wanted a jet ski. And I just thought it was just so strange to put, you know, um that particular conversation in the show. Usually when you put things in a show, it's like, oh, you know, it's a little Easter I can hold pertinent onto. But for me, I just couldn't correlate the like why he wanted a jet ski. And then there they asked him, like, oh, yeah, have you ever jet ski before? He's like, no, that's fucking random. In my mind, I'm like, that's so strange. But then it wasn't until I ended up finding out that that was actually like repressed memories from his former self. Um, you know, I just thought that was very interesting. And um, you know, I like I liked how he really wanted to try to uncover the truth, even though he knows it was gonna go against his friendship or whatever type of love, not love connection he had.
SPEAKER_00That was very, that was a very strong platonic relationship.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was a we it was strange. Like you'll you wanna, you don't want her, you're friends, she friend zoned you. It was a strange kind of I don't know. I don't think it was strange.
SPEAKER_07I thought they were really good, they were like really good long-term friends.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I know that she knew that they're really good long-term friends. I think Mobius was friends.
SPEAKER_07I feel like he did that. I feel like he knew too, but you know, Owen Wilson just Owen Wilson.
SPEAKER_01Owen Wilson is yeah. Owen Wilson literally plays the same character in different, like like he's Owen Wilson in every single movie. Yeah. But he does it well. He plays himself very well. But um, I thought it was interesting how um, you know, he had to kind of he had that tub of a war of emotions going back, like, do I trust my friend that I've known for millennia or whatever? Or do I go with my gut feeling that I'm not even sure about? And it's very interesting. Um, and it goes back to the Black McCoy and what they said about questioning and wanting to question, because if you have full faith and full ignorance into something, you're you're basically a slave to something that you don't even know if it's true. And if you try to question and really, you know, try to investigate, at least you know in the back of your mind, like, okay, well, I did this for me. And I think that was the first time that Mobius was actually doing something for himself versus what someone was telling him to do. And so Ren Slayer wasn't having that shit at all. Like bitch pissed, like, listen to me. And he's like, No, listen to me. I'm the friend. You supposed to be, you know, I just thought it was very interesting that that tuggle war because you know, he wanted to have faith in his friend, but he also was like, Why are there why are there holes? Why, you know, you need to, you need to give give me something because I I trust you, I have faith in you. You all, you're all that I ever known. Yeah, but it ain't making sense. So I thought it was very it I love that dynamic. I love that shift. And and it went from him hating Loki, it might be he hated Loki because someone told him to hate Loki.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_01You know, it wasn't, he had no, he had no dealings with him. So he didn't have any reasons but the information that was told how he should feel. And then he started as he got he as his feelings started to drift away from Rensler, it started to go closer to Loki, which I loved because that Loki was more so a metaphor for the truth, a metaphor for him knowing more about himself and Rensler was a fucking lie. And so I did like that dynamic shift um uh in and that progression and um the progression of just really like, I don't know, like character development. So I I did appreciate that. I thought that Owen Wilson was going to be a one-trip pony, uh his character, his character, so to speak. Um, but but it wasn't. And I thought it was very interesting. And it it opened up more questions about Renslayer, like what what is what does this bitch have? Like, why is she so stuck up the TBA's ass? Like, what do they have on her for her to care so much? And I still don't think she even knows. I think that she wants to know who the TBA is as well, or the TV, the timekeepers are as well, because she doesn't even know. And but I think more for her, it's like, I don't know if it's power. I just have I still have more questions for her. Like, what is her game or her goal? Because she is just a maniacal bitch in my mind. She doesn't even care.
SPEAKER_03She claimed she was gonna go find free will because we don't know what Mrs. Time that was her name, right? Miss Minutes, minutes, my bad, said to her or gave to her that came from the quote unquote timekeepers. So that's a mystery that is true.
SPEAKER_07We don't know what Miss Minutes, she's like, This wasn't what I asked for. Like, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_03She went through the portal before when she when Morbius asked her where is she going, she said to find free will.
SPEAKER_07So Yeah, because she because like they were having that conversation, she was like, The one she was basically saying, like, I can't remember the the line verbatim, but she was basically saying the one who's in control is the one who has free will, and like where are you going to find free will? So she's going to find the one who's in. So I think she was headed to the she was trying to with uh with far a little, um, or maybe a little bit more, find the person that they found at the end of time um that um they were looking for the entire the entire time. It's weird to say time so many times. Um but yeah, as so I I guess she's going to look for someone, but now that we know who she's actually looking for, and now they after the events of the finale, we're not really sure what that's gonna look like, just period.
SPEAKER_01Um, I have a question about that too. I'm sorry, I didn't want to cut you off.
SPEAKER_07No, no, no, you're fine, you're fine.
SPEAKER_01Um why not team up with Mobius? You know, if if if the timekeepers, so to speak, are a mystery to her, why not team up with the person that you've known forever to know like you know who's behind it all?
SPEAKER_07I that's why I'm like, why is she still so I think because she doesn't she doesn't have his trust anymore? So it's interesting what you were talking about. That like Mobius went from not trusting Loki at all to even considering Loki a friend by the time, you know, it came by the time they caught him out to Lamentus. Because I remember um they were having a conversation and he was like, it I forgot Loki was like being sarcastic, like, oh, I'm a trick star, I'm a this, I'm that. He's like, no, you're actually just kind of an asshole and a really bad friend. And it was the first time you ever heard Mobius refer to Loki in that sense, the entire show. But you'd always known that he referred to Judge Renslayer as a friend, and now you have this person who you have considered a longtime friend, a longtime dedicated friend. You have this for you have this for for, I guess from their perspective, centuries of like historical friendship influencing their relationship. And then you are presented with this massive lie. You're presented with this information of them continuing to perpetuate that lie to you and keeping you out of the dark, regardless of how close you are. And the person who you have actually the person you were working with and considered to be, for all intents and purposes, a tool or an enemy, they have presented you with more truth and understanding than the person you called your friend has actually presented you with. And Loki, regardless of his faults, was honest with Mobius in his own way and even in the most direct way by the time that moment occurred. And so when Mobius realized that Loki was uh really telling the truth, um, because you know, Mobius being the person who studied literally every moment of Loki's life before he even took him on to this case. So he knew Loki backwards in front more than Loki, more than Loki knew Loki. And so by the time he got in front of Judge Renslayer and they were just, you know, you know, they were celebrating, saying case closed, blah, blah, blah, woo, woo, woo. He was asking these questions that, for all intents and purposes, given the context of their friendship, didn't require her to lie to him, or even didn't require her to question why he was questioning things. And it, I think to me, well, I'll say to me specifically, that was very allegorical of this um, this kind of means of production that very efficient bureaucracies have, even when it comes to the people they put in power. Because when we see that flashback of Judge Renslayer when she um um abducted Sylvie when she was a child, we now we saw her as just another another soldier or another worker in the same way that C20 and B15 were, but now she's Judge Renslayer. Now she's she's not just Ramona anymore. She's Judge Renslayer, she's ascended in this bureaucracy to a position of power where she's the one who hands out the cases. She's the one who has different analysts, she's the one who's above all of these other people. And even for her to realize that certain things are a lie and to kind of perpetuate this mythos that she's protecting others by continuing to lie to them is almost um circumstantial to what it means to be a part of bureaucratic life. And when you start to divest from that, well, when one starts to divest from that bureaucratic lifestyle and understand the various insidious means of production associated with being in that kind of structure, um, it's very difficult to gain that trust back because there is no trust, because the the the entirety of its its its um entirety of its construction is a is a fiction. It's not real, it's a lie. And it begs the question, how many other lies am I being exposed to or being subjected to um throughout this you know entire process?
SPEAKER_00Also, technically, she did kill him, even though she didn't kill him, pruning as far as they knew, was somebody dying.
SPEAKER_07So right, and she even knew where he went when he we she knew where people she knew where stuff went when it was pruned. She not everybody knew that shit.
SPEAKER_00Well, but she did she uh she assumed he was gonna be swallowed by Aliyah. So she thought pretty much he was dead. Is that lying? I haven't sorry.
SPEAKER_03Did anyone else think that Owen Wilson's character, like if if female Loki would have touched him, that he would be somewhere else on the beach because he was so tied to them jet skis?
SPEAKER_071000%. Oh, yeah, absolutely. This thing got a whole magazine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I thought like that was what was attaching him to his memories, but he just didn't know it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's we and it's interesting, like when you when I went back and rewatched the series, it was like there are so many different hints as to what's fucked up going on here that you know were casually dropped. Like when Loki in the first episode, when Loki threatened old dude whose name escapes me, I don't think they even gave him a name, but um old dude, um, who who was at the front desk when he first came in. They gave him a name, but I can't remember what it was. Casey, that was it was Casey, Casey. God bless Casey's heart. And he didn't know what a fish was. He was like, wait a minute, how do you mean not paperweight? We got plenty of these. How do you not know what a fish is? That's really suspicious. Like for someone who works for an organization that examines all of time to not know what something as rudimentary as a fish is in any in any timeline, in any species, in any anything, there's no conceptualization of something so rudimentary when it comes to you know being or living. Like they have no concept of life prior to the TVA. And the idea that they were born and raised there makes very odd sense. Actually, no sense, because it's not like we ever see that there's an area or there's a department, or even here that there's a department where people um are able to are are reproduced in some way. We just know that the TVA has people everywhere.
SPEAKER_01And they're adults too. There's no children, there's no old people, they're all like, I would say in their 40s. They all grown-ass people. Like, yeah, they're grown-ass people. They're not like they're not high schoolers, they're not toddlers. And I was thinking that too. I'm like, oh, I've been here all my entire life. And I'm thinking, okay, maybe they got like a batch of people and just kept them there. Cause I'm like, I'm not, and maybe they're just immortal, but even still, like, where do y'all come from? Are you manufactured?
SPEAKER_00They the the video says that they were created. So the assumption is they were created at whatever age that they're at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, you don't see any any like romantic, um, I don't know, connections. You don't see them, it's it's just like they're just workers. Yep. So it was just very strange. It was very, it was very odd.
SPEAKER_07Part of what dogma is when it comes to those kinds of bureaucratic structures, you have to reinforce that idea that that and so to the point where it's so normalized amongst everybody there that there is no questioning of it. It's like it becomes common knowledge, it becomes that's why I say there when people say they're like common sense isn't so common, I'm like, well, common sense in and of itself is is is a fiction because the common sense is dictated by someone, it is dictated by a series of things. So even the concept of common knowledge or common sense has to be enforced by someone or something everywhere.
SPEAKER_00So now we actually have to move on, got to get to the end of this. Uh so now we've uh we've uh come to uh Mobius working with um Loki. Of course, he gets pruned by Judge Renslayer. Uh so now, you know, Loki and Loki and Judge Renslayer are in the elevator, as um, I believe either Black McCoy or Shampoo Braces brought up earlier. Um, they're in this elevator. Actually, who whose point was that? That was me. Oh, you want to finish that point since now we're at that part of the story?
SPEAKER_07Sure, but I'll let you finish what you're about to say.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I was just gonna say they're on the elevator, about to go and see the timekeepers.
SPEAKER_07Okay, yeah, no. So even so, what I was saying earlier was like uh Sylvie's outrage is completely understood. And even the moment in which she she gave Judge Rinslayer the opportunity to give her some degree of clarity and understanding as to why she was abducted as a child, removed from her home. And Judge Rinslayer just said, I don't remember. Insignificant, insignificant.
SPEAKER_03It was like she took that pruning stick and pruned her at that very moment.
SPEAKER_07It was it was such a pivotal moment for me because I I keep saying I keep talking about bureaucracy, but that's because this that's exactly what the TVA is. It's even said that it's a highly efficient bureaucracy, a highly efficient functioning bureaucracy. And in a bureaucracy, that kind of information doesn't matter. Why would like you just simply do what you are told to do? You would do you do what you are assigned to do, and you have no connection or connection to it in any way, shape, or form. The fact that she even remembered that she was the one who took Sylvie was more impactful, well, or was more meaningful as a plot point than anything. Because honestly, the fact that she remembered is largely because it was uh a huge mistake, honestly. Like it was a hole that was presented in the in the structure of this bureaucracy. Like in the in in the grand scheme of all the things that we see happening at the TVA, we see we only have seen Sylvie to be the only one to truly escape and run rampant in the way that she did. And it is Judge Renslayer who was escorting her to that hearing, who was the one who led the mission to abduct her, who uh who fucked up and let her get away. So that was I can see why that would be the only thing she remembered, not even giving a fuck as to why she went and ended up getting why she went to got her, but the fact that she fucked up and let her escape. Like that's why I think that that memory was more impactful.
SPEAKER_03Because really a fuck up, or was it she supposed to escape?
SPEAKER_07Well, you could actually, yeah, it could very much be that she's supposed she was supposed to escape, but also that she because Judge Rensselaer in the position that she was saw it personally as a fuck up in the same way that Sylvie saw it as um, you know, a personal, like she saw it as like a personal slight. Because for all intents and purposes, what the TVA does isn't personal. What bureaucracies do isn't personal, they're just functioning in the way they're supposed to function. They're doing what they're created to do. But to the individuals who are involved in the functions impact, and they thank you, involved in the impact. Um, it's it's a lot more personal. And the fact that she was trying to do her job, and part of what she was doing, part of what she was supposed to do um involved a failure, definitely hit her personally, you know, in a way that's in a way that was really, really serious, especially because that variant was still running around, killing off agents and causing havoc, and no one could find her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So now that we're at the end, we've ridden this elevator. The timekeepers are here. We find out that the robots, she prunes Loki, Sylvie's pissed, almost kills Renslayer, decide to figure out if they can come to uh uh some type of agreement. Miss Minutes is there. So we're at the end of this. We find out that everything is at the citadel at the end of time. And we think this is the end, this is where everything is. There's the void, and then there's the citadel. The void is, of course, where everything is pruned and tossed for alive. That's his name. Uh alive to swallow and devour, right? And then you have the citadel where he who remains is located. So let's skip the void altogether. I mean, although we have, you know, special characters that everybody enjoys who are there. The most important part of this now is the citadel. So once we arrived here, Miss Minutes gives them a choice. Why do you think this choice was important for the storyline? Does anybody remember the choice before I continue?
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Why do you feel like this choice was important? And do you feel like it was even necessary for the storyline? And we will start with uh D.
SPEAKER_05It was important because like it was the future. It's if you look at it like outside looking in, like from our perspective, it's the future of the MCU. Like it had to happen because we got to see Jon to Major be King in as many iterations of the character King and many different properties of the MCU. But uh the choice was given just to uh Also to show the social political aspect of uh do you want to continue what uh McCoy was saying, the status quo bureaucracy, or do you want to do something entirely different and change it up and see what can possibly may or may not happen? And uh I feel like uh why a lot of people say like it was a rogue Karen doing what she was doing to take down, like you know, uh uh established black business, but that black business was not going as smoothly as perceive it to be. But uh, like yeah, that choice had to be made story-wise, because if we didn't have that story, that that option to be made, it would have just been like two rogue Loki's doing like you know, some Loki whatnot. But uh to go into what uh Black McCoy was talking about with the game to Loki and uh showing like Herb Havacost as a character, like you know, the show is called Loki, and he is in fact a Loki. So have all that put together, like you know, it all came back full circle to the Loki aspect of it being Loki. So like like the show is quintessential Loki, essentially.
SPEAKER_04You muted, you muted it.
SPEAKER_02I did, I did, I did tap into that uh that four loco earlier. But um came on my second one. Uh no, it was uh no, yeah. The question was very uh was very important as far as like uh, you know, it was like a long, you know, kind of, you know, for you know, kind of like uh D kind of touched on, you know, uh you know, you know, free free will is definitely a definite theme throughout this this whole thing. Oh thank you so much.
SPEAKER_07I was I was like trying so hard not to like go into like the whole thing. I'm so happy that you brought it up.
SPEAKER_02I didn't want to be here for you.
SPEAKER_07Uh you don't make that face.
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, and it was almost like you know, and it was definitely like almost like uh kind of like the the you know the you know like the red red pill, blue pill type deal. It was kind of like hey, well, we can make you real cozy uh back back in this uh lovely system that you think you hate, but I think I can change your mind. Uh um, or you can uh uh you know see what's see what's good and try burning. What's behind the curtain? Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um and and speaking of behind the curtain, uh the the the the wizard of Osiness of the timekeeper moment uh was was ever was everything to me.
SPEAKER_07When that elevator opened, the the screen that I let out and I was sitting next to Suchi when it happened, I was like, ah I was like my baby.
SPEAKER_00Uh Talent Flame, what's your feeling about the choices that uh Miss uh Minutes gave uh our Loki's? If you're talking, you're muted. If you're there, okay, maybe it's not there.
SPEAKER_02Wow, I said they're both missing. We know we know what that means.
SPEAKER_06No, we're not even in the same place when they slipped off camera and everything.
SPEAKER_01I'm definitely here.
SPEAKER_04Right. We know you're here, we just wonder who else is there.
SPEAKER_07Well baby, but when you're good at it, the makeup don't smear, honey.
SPEAKER_01I have certain techniques to keep it from smearing, but then I digress so Miss Sayone, since Talon seems to be busy with Flame. Talonflame, Talonflame must be occupied. Talonflame, are you are you occupied doing it?
SPEAKER_07Tell him to stand up for some breath, that's all.
SPEAKER_01Oh Lord, hello? There he is, yes.
SPEAKER_04Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03Oh speaking the total time, yeah. No, just two she said you were muted.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh low, and not necessarily by the mic.
SPEAKER_01I had to say his name, I just had to say his name a couple times and he heard my voice.
SPEAKER_00That's what it was. I'm sure I'm sure we were ineffective single time.
SPEAKER_01If you don't mind to repeat the question, no problem.
SPEAKER_00So Mr. Flame, Colin Flame. Uh how do you feel, or what do you feel, about the choice, the uh the options that were given to our Loki's by Miss Minutz in the Citadel?
SPEAKER_09Uh, there were good choices when it comes to Loki's. They probably would have taken it if that if that would have been the old character that they were compared to who they are now at that point in time. They've grown past that. Every everybody wants to know the truth. No one wants to live in a lie because they know what that looks like. They saw an agency of people who live lives. Of lies.
SPEAKER_00Lives of lies. I didn't even catch that until he said it again.
SPEAKER_01Go ahead, baby. He's speaking straight facts. Go ahead. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_07I was like, where's the collection plate? That's how they slowed it down and everything. People who are living lies.
SPEAKER_00Let the TVA say amen. Oh my God. Um so uh true. Very, very accurate. You know, they were given the choice either to go back to timelines where you know they were placed back in the places where they were taken and even have even better lives where all the things that they could ever have wanted, or you know, the glorious purpose that they normally seek for uh could be attained. But you're correct. They and together, right? And and potentially even together, you know, even though they didn't know they needed that beforehand. But no, like you said, they wanted truth. Uh Sylvie wanted her glorious revenge, and uh um, you know, the other Loki just wanted to help. So now that we've gone behind the curtain, we've taken the final elevator or gone through the final door rather, uh, and we've met he who remains. Uh, which, as some of our panelists have said, we're all either surprised, shocked. Some were already spoiled the morning before. But uh, we all now know he who remains. And the door had been open, and he pretty much explains everything that has happened up until this time. I knew it was gonna happen. Matter of fact, I I'll go as far as say that I even caused certain things to occur so that it could turn out this way to give you another choice. Your final choice is to either because I don't know what's about to happen. I'm gonna give you a choice because you know what happens after this last word, you know, 15 seconds ago, you're gonna have to make the next decision. Are you gonna get your revenge or are you going to allow the uh uh the cosmic, cosmic, nope, sacred timeline to continue on, right? So that choice, I think all of us is a cosmic thing. Uh it is, but it wasn't called the cosmic timeline. But you know, maybe and I'm I kind of like I mean, yeah, you could. But so everybody is sitting there where some are on the edge of their seat, some are seated back with their arms crossed, some are like, why am I still watching this? Everybody had their own, you know, reservations while they were watching uh this last seat, well, almost last scene. Um, what was your feeling about the choice? Because obviously Loki and Sylvie were on either sides of this decision. Uh, you you seem to be fine with the question that was given by Miss Minutes, but now we're at the choice of do we get the revenge that we've been looking for this entire time, or do we allow the sacred timeline or do we just run it ourselves? Uh, so three choices technically, because he doesn't know what's about to happen. He's just kind of sitting there chilling. Um, so which one, which one would you have chosen? And then two, no, backwards. Yes. One, do you feel like the choice that was made was the accurate one? And then two, which choice would you have chosen, chosen of the three? Sorry. Uh, and we will start with uh shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_03Damn it. I knew I felt you I know, I know.
SPEAKER_07I felt it too, and that's only because you need it. You this is the kind of decision I would put I would put you in. I would put you in it too.
SPEAKER_05We were in there in the group. I don't know you personally, but like do we even talk about the show this entire time? I feel like you know, you could be the person who's been wanting to answer this question the entire time.
SPEAKER_07So we got we have a special guest who knows you after the last two hours, right?
SPEAKER_03Um let me say this. I wasn't shocked by Sylvie's choice because at this point she was. I mean, that is also your choice, but that's really why I think this is good because y'all are trying to put me in Sylvie's place. But anyway, I wasn't shocked by her choice because she was so blinded with Roman at this point. There was nothing that was gonna stop her from getting it. It was not Loki, not the world ending, nothing. She was gonna get it. I do enjoy the fact that her and the you know regular Loki that we're used to tried to stop her and make her think because that's something that you normally don't see Loki do anyway.
SPEAKER_00Very true.
SPEAKER_03So um, but knowing himself, he should have known that she had a trick up her sleeve and that something she was gonna do something to get him out the way because he will at that point you were no longer on my side. So now I need you to go and let me handle my business.
SPEAKER_00And honestly, I I definitely agree because uh several times during the the show you saw where Loki knew what another Loki would be thinking, but then certain choices or certain thoughts would cloud his judgment, like ah man, she would never because I'm in love with her or me. So therefore, that's not what she's gonna do, and that would cloud his judgment. Of this is an obvious choice. That's what you would do, Loki. But you know, yeah, I'm sorry, right.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's what happened there, honestly. I think that his feelings for her clouded his judgment or his perception of her. Um, for me, that's a that's a tough one.
SPEAKER_00Um is it?
SPEAKER_03I could say fuck the whole entire world and get my revenge and be okay and still take over.
SPEAKER_00That's not the world girl. That's uh little narrative in the world.
SPEAKER_07That's your world, the other world's over.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, everything that will or will be. Right.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I think. I mean, like, come back to me. It's just like I like if you're that you're she was that hurt that her whole life got uprooted. I understand why she was angry. So it's like no one else in this world cared that I had to hide in all these massacres in order to just survive.
SPEAKER_07So why don't they are call them trauma farms because that's exactly what they want.
SPEAKER_03So why on the why should I give a fuck about anybody else? Which is which is the way I felt like she was carrying it. So partly I'm like, yes, I probably would have made that choice because at the end of the day, regardless of I got reset, I still got my revenge. And the other hard part is like hanging that reset is everything instead of me just taking over and forming it the way I feel like it should be forming.
SPEAKER_00Uh Kaze.
SPEAKER_05You're not me there.
SPEAKER_02Uh I mean, I don't know. I think it was uh uh I I both understood it would have been an easy, relatively easy choice for me. I understood, understood uh why Sylvie did uh what she did. Uh I mean me me personally, I I think of my uh uh you know place in the universe is pretty uh small and inconsequential. So I don't uh I I don't have a problem kind of putting in perspective any any personal slights I might have. Uh well any slights that might have happened to me personally, uh uh you know, weighted against everything. I think that I think that that is would have been a non uh non-decision for me. Uh and um given given the amount of uh uh potential uh agency and control that I would have had afterwards, um, I think I would have uh been able to find some modicum of revenge anyway. Uh um because uh because you know, like is it you know you controlling kind of you controlling timelines and grabbing variants, you know, you can go you can uh you can go go grab you a king and be like uh uh yeah, yeah, you you might not did this yet, but you about to uh pay for it. Oh you about to have a series of long, long conversations.
SPEAKER_03Uh but um wipe that whole baby off the the time of the fake uh wipe them off of the time frame, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um but um but you know, one of the things I like about um uh the Sylvie thing is that like people uh peep you know, people people like don't don't like really understand you know, it's it's hard to put yourself in the situation where your whole world was taken away from you. So to have a person like that who, as far as they're concerned, everything important was taken away, and and and uh in the world or time or you know, the powers that be uh forsaken you, and then to put them in a position and be like, hey, you know, sacrifice yourself for everything. And I was like, well, cool, everything ain't do shit for me. Why why on earth with what I care about? Everything I came here to do with on a mission, and and nothing, you know, and nothing you said uh is gonna move me from that. And and that's and one of my favorite uh things about that scene was what Loki said. It was like it was like I, you know, it's like we're you know, we were doomed to you know, we were doomed to fail because I you know I I can't I can't be trusted and you can't trust. So like that shit like this. So I was like, ooh, ooh. That was just so good. Matter of fact, I finished the line as they were saying it because it was just like, and I was like, Oh, they're about to, oh, you was like, ooh, whoever wrote that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, right. Give them an award, please.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I that that moment, that moment was done, was done so well. So, you know, I understand um uh what she did, but yeah, me personally, I definitely would have uh uh yeah, would have made the quote unquote right decision. Whatever that was.
SPEAKER_05D this is antiquated in many different ways. I I think about quiz custodius, episodes custodius. It's a Latin phrase that says uh who guards the guardsmen. And like when I watch this show, I think about that pretty often. Does this show ties into concepts, societal norms, social norms, uh, questioning every last one of those norms, even like uh uh Sayone uh also said about the whole prison system, like uh thinking that Loki is a bad guy, and like we think Loki is a bad guy because we're told Loki is a bad guy, is questioning different concepts like that, questioning morality, questioning what is morality. Uh, and we meet King, and King tells us about the multiverse war, tells us about uh how he had to fight off other different kings and how he had to stabilize the timeline. And by doing so, he had to create the bureaucracy that is the TVA to keep that uh stabilized because uh their kings will run rampant and do whatever they see fit. Uh, I don't know what my choice would be. Uh, I'm not one for bureaucracy, I'm not one for following a status quo that uh possibly could inherently oppress people. Like I can't I can't even fathom myself making a choice like that. And I feel like uh when Sylvie killed Kang, she uh she she was deemed the Karen after that. And I get it, I get it, and I understand it. And like, you know, like uh is she is she that? Is she not that? That's another concept like the question, but uh uh the was it was it the right choice to make for the MCU? Inherently, yes, because we get more content, we get more stories, we get more freedom, we get more liberties, we get more action, superhero stories, concept, we get uh characters that we once knew with the same name, uh re envision. Yes, we get like uh uh uh a Black Panther that's a woman, we get uh Iron Man, that's a woman, we get Iron Man that's probably Asian, we get uh uh Captain America, that's probably um Middle Eastern. We get like different different ideas of these same characters that we've already seen because like we get another essential multiverse war. So could I would I have killed someone to create my own image to do something entirely different? Uh I me personally, no. I no. There's there's no like killing does not make things better, killing makes things worse. And like I I can't ever subscribe to something like that. But uh like uh what choice would I have made? I would have tried to create a new sustaining world. I would have tried to put more things to the line. I would have like uh accepted and understood the struggles that he he remains created and went through to like go through all of this and like try like to find something that's a different choice because he is only essentially one person, and of course he's mad. Yep, he's mad. He's he he tells us that as like we see him with his prop apple eating it, talking with his uh morphing clay that he shows to Sylvie and Loki as he's telling his whole grandioso life story in under four minutes. Like he's mad. He's literally has gone insane. He even has like the the Japanese culture of uh reforging his palace with gold gorgeous inside of his home. Like that's that's like that's the madness of like his world crumbling, and he like uses gold to reforge it all back together because he has literally gone insane and uh Insugi, that's what it's called.
SPEAKER_07Thank you, thank you very much.
SPEAKER_05And and like, could I make what he made or would I have gone mad like him? Like, I feel like it to keep doing what he's doing is to share his fate of madness and to find like a different way. I don't know what the other way is. Like I I really I don't, but uh like I I'm apprehensive, uh intrigued, and uh a little bit excited to see what this choice that Sylvia has made for the entire omniverse uh will look like. It could it could give birth to the amalgam universe, DC and Marvel. Like this choice could actually bring that to the forefront. I don't know. It could. Uh it could be fun to see. Uh, but it it was it was birthed from death, it was birthed from murder. I think like we should all keep that in mind when we watch these next slew shows. I think that's why we got what if. What if I believe is canon? I think what if is canon. I think what if it's uh it is the multiverse of everything.
SPEAKER_07That what if is the what if series is a direct result of what happened in Loki.
SPEAKER_05Agreed. Like I wholeheart, I wholeheartedly believe that as well, because it has to be like that's why like the animation is exactly the same for every single episode. Because like this is these are like like the multiverse of the stories that we see spawn from this series, and like you know, it's a genius idea, like it's it's more than what uh Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and uh Ditko and all those other guys back in the 1670s ever would have conjured up. It's it's inherently good, like uh, you know, quality and entertainment-wise. So, like, I'm I'm excited to see what happens. I'm I'm really apprehensive because it is CMC. Like, I'm excited to see what happens. I needed it and apprehensive. That's a good way to be.
SPEAKER_00Uh, so I would like to go on so we can finish, but I do want to give Talonflame, Sayone, and the Black McCoy the option of answering this question. So if you can keep it concise, that'd be great. Sayone. So the question is the final choice uh that was given to uh the Loki's by he who remains, um, to pretty much kill him, get your ultimate revenge, and then you know, the sacred timeline goes crazy, um fulfill what he decided, which is have them take over, or well, you know, uh I mean honestly thinking about it, that would be the only two choices because he didn't know what was gonna happen next. So it's pretty much those two. Uh, either that, well, first, do you feel like she made the right decision? And then two, what decision would you have made?
SPEAKER_01This is actually the decision I don't remember what did she make. Like I completely forgot. Oh, she killed her.
SPEAKER_09Oh, she killed her, maybe. I'm sorry, she got her revenge, she killed him.
SPEAKER_01Oh, she got her revenge, yeah.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, she killed him.
SPEAKER_01Um so it's either the revenge or just like not have not kill any everybody else.
SPEAKER_03So it was revenge or take over in his place.
SPEAKER_01Take over in his place. Um I agree with her decision. I I do. Um, I'm all for the carnage. You know what I'm saying? So um the world would have to fucking burn. And then for unfortunate, I'm sorry, just you know, I I understand. Is it right? No, but unfortunately, revenge just has nothing to do about morality, it's more so about what you want. Um, it's your desire. You know, it's not about oh the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do, it's No, like people gotta get get murked. Sorry. And unfortunately, it sucks, right? You know, because innocents are gonna be involved. But when you have someone who who has revenge clouding their mind, they want that goal. They need it, they have to have it because they were wronged so bad that not everybody's gonna have to pay for it.
SPEAKER_07I would disagree that it's not a it's I would have disagree that revenge is a very moralistic stance to take because we have entire justice systems formulated on the concept of revenge. It is, you know, more nuanced in certain ways.
SPEAKER_05It's a selfish morality, but yeah, I meant more exactly.
SPEAKER_01I think more positive morality, I should I should, I should have specified. I would say revenge is not, I would say, the the idealistic vision of what morality should be.
SPEAKER_07Right. It's like it's not it's not something that applies for everyone.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. You know, so um, but then again, what people think is right, what people think is wrong is also per um um subject to yeah, it's it's an individual, it's individual. What we might think is right, another person might think is wrong, and vice versa. So it really is to the individual. Who are we to say who what is right and what is wrong, what's the right decision? Is basically for them. So I would have done the same shit. Um you know, I'm I would have done the same thing. Um, and uh would the general mass disagree?
SPEAKER_00Probably not, but they wouldn't be there to disagree, so that is so terrible.
SPEAKER_01That's so true, they wouldn't be there. Exactly. And neither would you agree, and that's okay. And that's okay. That's okay because the goal was I want them to feel my pain, you know. And yeah, and if if if the is I think I keep going back to like a God of War, um, and Kratos is like, everybody gonna feel this shit. Yo, dog, dog, yo mama, your cat, I don't care. And if you just I can I understand my way, you'll feel it too. And if I die, I die. And you know, as long as my goal is is is see through to the end, that's all I care about. So um, I I agree. I agree with with talent.
SPEAKER_05I may not agree with you, but like a well to your point.
SPEAKER_09No, but like uh all the Loki's are self-centered and narcissistic, so the idea of not being the arbiter of their own story, it would drive them crazy. So I understand why the choice would be easy for a Loki. The other Loki thought about the repercussions of things to come, yeah. And knowing the lack of control, which goes back into the personality of being a narcissist and being control in the center of everything. So it's two conflicting narcissistic views. He's a little bit less narcissistic since you know, friends and whatever, happy ending. He got a girlfriend, that's him. Um but but yeah, like he he understands that I less winning and creating a story and being in control might not be the best thing where she wasn't having it because her whole life was dictated through this one man's action. So I'm happy he's dead because now we get the multiverse, which is amazing. But I a hundred percent believe it's gonna come full circle, they're gonna get fucked up.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah. That's what really threw me about her revenge was was um uh because at the end of the day, he was like, Yeah, you know, you stabbed me and uh all that all this terrible things happened, then I end up back here. And it's kind of like uh what you know, one is one one decision was was to give you agency to do something about you know, not not what happened to you before, but about a bunch of things, versus uh, you know, you you were pretty much informed that you doing you you doing what you came here to do would ultimately be meaningless. Yeah, you had Trevor's a long time, he was taking it here way too long. Um, so you know, so I like even so so me who uh because I'm not completely against revenge either, but if I'm going to take revenge, I'm uh I'm I'm uh you know, I had a long time to think about it, which means if I'm giving a decision to you know do this thing that's gonna ultimately take away my control of the situation, versus pretty much being given the the keys to creation, at which point I can very uh I can very creatively uh you know uh sort out my feelings or what I want to do with say person uh across time. I think you know, I think that would be a better choice. But you know, it I like I like that I like that Tyler Brain brought up control. It's it's very it's very hard for someone who's short-sighted to be in any form of control.
SPEAKER_09Like revenge is the sweetest joy next to get pussy.
SPEAKER_07Wow, I think well, that's our episode, ladies and gentlemen. I would love to end it there, but I have one more binaries and non-binaries and gender fluids alike. That is our program for the day.
SPEAKER_00The black macquire. You have one final point if you want to answer that question, so I can get onto the final question. Yeah, she started it.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't give a definite choice.
SPEAKER_00I I was we know your choice.
SPEAKER_03Shammy B is in the room if you want to ask him, but I mean I feel like we know his choice too.
SPEAKER_00But let's go ahead and ask.
SPEAKER_03So female Loki decided to get her revenge on the Conqueror. Um, so the choice the question is, would you have gone with revenge or would you decide to take his place and control the world yourself?
SPEAKER_07No, revenge would have unleashed way more.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, revenge, but unleashed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but and and and and done a whole bunch of worse things than what happened to you.
SPEAKER_08So I got I this is where my question comes in. Wouldn't your greatest revenge be to take his place and subjugate him?
SPEAKER_07Yes, in my opinion. In my opinion as well, yes.
SPEAKER_08I'm sorry, that's that's that was but but I think the problem is he that's what he wants.
SPEAKER_00I'll I said I think the problem is that's what he wants. So for you to if you're like Brent, like uh Kase was saying, being short-sighted, if your if if the first avenge you had was killing him, and then he said, Um, you know, the all the alternative is to take my place and control the sacred timeline, it's and he said that's what he wants. It's like, hmm, do I do what I want, or do I want do what he wants, even though what he wants could end up getting what I want, but doing what I want will end up having another one of him, which is still what he wants. But he also wanted to die. Also true.
SPEAKER_04But it's it's ultimately smacked all around.
SPEAKER_07It was ultimately he still wanted to maintain peace on the on the sacred timeline.
SPEAKER_05Another motion kill him.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_05He was afraid to die.
SPEAKER_08I mean, like, I mean, if he wants me to take his place, I guess I you just gotta make it, you just gotta make his subjugation really hard. That's the most like you like make his subjugation as difficult as possible. Yes, this is what you want, and I see how this is good for you, but you also want to die. So now it's like, well, what you want more? I gotta, I can't kill you because you want that.
SPEAKER_03I keep you in everlasting pain.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I can make you with like it's like like um like you do him like uh what's that scientist from um from uh Invincible? You got with how you got fucked up and pretty much you was just like a head on a pull on a stick and he was still alive.
SPEAKER_00Oh god.
SPEAKER_08What the fuck did they do to I forgot who it was that fucked up Batman? And it was pretty much like which one's true, which Batman?
SPEAKER_02It was um I say it's Hush, it was bang.
SPEAKER_08Uh I forgot what storyline it was. The corporate might have been one of the Batman Beyond um storylines, but they pretty much had Batman's brain in everlasting pain. He was still alive, but he wasn't like he had no body anymore. You were just kind of in a machine and it would just be a torture and used. Like it's like there's other ways to fuck people up and still get what they want. Yeah, you want me to take over, but this is not gonna be pleasant for you. Like it's like I gotta make this as as implaus and implausibly unpleasant as possible. Because now I'm in out of control, but that also means we came to conquer power, you can make some shit happen. You can make this, you can keep peace and make it very unpeaceful for him.
SPEAKER_03Like, um, yeah.
SPEAKER_08Y'all asked me this question. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_07We're we're not because the answer you're giving is the is pretty much the same answer that Kaze and I have. Like my answer is very similar, if not exact, to yours. Like, there is definitely a way where you can have both, if not better.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, there's always this thing's worse than death. You just gotta find them. Yeah, it's a nice, colorful trip down Rainbow Road to find.
SPEAKER_07I mean, we can't go down Rainbow Road because of Ragnarok, but I hear what you're saying. Wow. All fucked up. But um, to be to be brief, my answer to that question is basically how's answer. Um, I think that I have the devices necessary to get exactly what I want while continuing to maintain what's necessary while still seeking the while still in well, not enforcing, but well, in some degree enforcing the the facets of liberation necessary that are to some degree withdrawn from um the oppression that the TVA has that D was referring to earlier. Um, I'm gonna stop there because my brain is surging with so many things. So I'm going to appease the group and shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_00And I don't know about the group, uh, just more so the time. Um, so yes, uh wrapping it up.
SPEAKER_07Uh so many things to say.
SPEAKER_00Put it on Instagram. All right. So wrapping it up. So we have uh, as we said, uh Sophie uh kills he who remains. Uh she slumps to the floor completely uh not happy with uh not well not necessarily not happy, she does not receive the um what's the word I want to use? Uh yeah, catharsis that works, yes.
SPEAKER_07You think every time catharsis, no satisfaction, you know.
SPEAKER_00She she's at the point where she felt like she was gonna get that revenge and she technically got it, but at the end of the day, some big bang, like some big powerful, like something epiphany, and there was nothing.
SPEAKER_05There was nothing it's just revenge because that's what revenge gets you.
SPEAKER_07That's all it is, and I think it's the the the I'm I apologize, but the the larger like the larger concept here was the this more like self-love aspect that they went with in terms of Loki because that conversation where he stopped her, when he he dropped his sword, he was like, Sylvie, stop, stop, stop. And he was like, I I I it I know it's hard to understand, but I've been where you are, I understand what you're feeling. And it was that moment of Loki has had the opportunity to come so far with himself to evolve as a person, and he completely understands where Sylvie has been because he has legitimately and adamantly been in that same space. But because he's had the opportunity to not simply just experience, but to learn and to change as a person and to realize that he can change as a person, um, he was able to really substantial, he was able to ground himself in that conversation. And I think it serves as much, a much larger kind of layer to the show about what it means to overcome one's trauma in a very you know tangible sense, to overcome that aspect of yourself that's very riddled with pain and destruction and fervor in the in the worst possible way to find yourself in a more peaceful place. Because he was he ultimately was never really concerned with ruling. That's why I kind of really disagree with um Talonflame in that sense. Like Loki wasn't coming from a narcissistic place because at the end of the day, he just wanted Sylvie to be okay. He wasn't concerned with a throne, he wasn't concerned with control, he just wanted to make sure that she was fine, and he said that outright. And she had to say that I I say she was a happy place, essentially. Yeah, yeah, she she like she and not even if he couldn't be with her, he wanted to make sure she was okay. He never said, I want to be with you, I want us to have a life together. He said, I want you to be okay. Yep, and that's a that it's it's like that's a conversation around self-love, around love it, love, even conceptually speaking, in a general sense, that we don't often get in certain, you know, Marvel properties. And I think that's why I love this show.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_07Any social media and even in such this kind of not I don't want to say roundabout, but very explicit way, because it's he's literally dealing with a version of himself. And that's largely what a what that trauma that people experience go through. It's a version of themselves that they really have to deal with and have to grapple with and have to learn and grow with and care for in order to get to the places that they find themselves to be, that it's really truly healthy, and not you know, pushing for some sense of control or some sense of you know um power or dominance, but simply just to be okay. And at the end of the day, uh while Loki was able to remain in that space of evolution and growth as a person, Sylvie was resing, was, you know, she was she had to be resigned to continuing to pursue the very um fundamental aspect of the trauma that she experienced that drove her her entire life. Because, like I said earlier, she grew, she was yanked up as a child, and she lived the rest of her life up to that point in a series of traumatic events, living from literal apocalypse to apocalypse. And and I know that people will be pushed to judge her for the decision that she made, but when you look at her developmentally, what else would you expect from a person who literally lived grew up and lived their life through nothing but traumatic events, consistently re-traumatizing themselves to the point where they only understand the facet of the the the the the nexus the nexus of their experience to be this person who was in charge of this uh structure that said that they didn't belong and then caused them to be thrusted or thrown into this life where they're constantly experiencing this horrific life, this horrific upbringing. And we can only we we couldn't expect more from her outside of that. So the decision that she made, while we wanted her to decide differently, she wouldn't have she psychoanalytic, psychoanalytically speaking, she wouldn't have made any other decision. She could have, but she wouldn't have. And I think that also contributes to the conversation around free will and determinism and you know what is to be expected or what is to be chosen by uh an agent in certain situations.
SPEAKER_00I I almost want to end it there, but I actually have to ask the last question. So I'm going to. So the final question is dealing with after Sylvia has made her decision, she had already thrusted or used the temp pad to thrust uh Loki, the Loki that we've come to know, um, into uh this portal. And he ends up after you know we uh uh cycle through the um the credits, he ends up back at the TVA. Um and he's like he has all this information, knows about uh uh he who remains and how there's many more of them. Um and they're coming and they're going to destroy uh well, they're coming to do a lot of things, but they're coming to destroy this timeline and other timelines. And he's you know, of course, he knows about the branching of the sacred timeline. He's like, Oh, I gotta find Mobius, I gotta find somebody who can help the situation. And he finds Mobius, finds B-15, who are you know scrambling to you know figure out what they can do to fix the sacred timeline that's branching off. And he's rambling off about you know, he who remains and all the stuff that's going on. And eventually Mobius says, Well, who are you? Are you the new analyst? I mean, if you need help, you know, we have somebody in tech who can like help you with your computer, but uh uh what's going on? And then he looks up and he sees what used to be the timekeeper's uh uh statue, uh now enshrining the uh he who remains or Kang, as you know, most of us are now calling him, uh, them. Yeah, I guess some of them are mortis. Amortis, thank you. Um, so now that this has happened, we're leading into the already verified Loki two or season two. Um, what is your anticipation of the future? Uh, you know, we've there's a lot of cliphangers that take place. Uh one, they don't know who Loki is. So what it seems to have happened is that he's been thrust into a completely different timeline that wasn't the one he came from. Uh also uh uh Sylvie is still alive. She's just at the end of time in the Citadel. We already talked about uh uh Judge Ren, um dang, I forgot her name that quick. Rainslayer, Rainslayer, Jesus, um, who has you know disappeared looking for free will. Um, and then we have all of the different uh uh he who remains or kings uh coming to uh either destroy the timeline or do something or take over. We don't really know. So, what is your anticipation for the future? What is coming next? What is your anticipation for the next step in Loki? And we will start with Kaze.
SPEAKER_02Alrighty. Um I guess uh getting help to uh look forward. Uh suppose I'm uh look back a little bit first. Um uh I I just you know watching watching locally kind of gate uh you know, whenever whenever you get like a new piece of the story, you know, you kind of you kind of relook at uh all the information you have through you know through new lens. And and you know, and looking back, it's it's pretty cool looking at the amount of uh just you know uh world building they was doing, like uh, like you know, because honestly, the first time we see the you know tech sacred timeline was uh was uh when the ancient one you know showed that like that lovely little videographic for for Dar you know for Doctor Strange and she pretty much explained the entire concept and uh you know and it was also explained in that movie that uh that the the ancient one kept multiversal threats at bay. And and now there's a void there. And and now and you know, and now and we literally got you know TVA shit popping off now that you know now the ancient one's dead. So it's kind of like so. I'm wondering if they're gonna kind of dive into that relationship and you know, if for if if and what they had whatever they had to uh do with each other. And um, you know, and from a similar uh uh in a similar vein, um back uh in uh back in Avengers when um when uh Tony was fixing their uh their time machine and he had a uh uh he you know his machine had an image what was again pretty much uh what we now know to be the second time line. It was actually a Mobius strip, but you know, Mobius, that's what you know as we got his name from. But uh, you know, and they had you know, and he had like all the different possibilities tracing uh along the different threads uh on the uh on the strip. And uh, you know, and I thought, you know, and I thought that was like really uh amazing because Kang was initially was a historian and he was super he was super interested in Tony. And uh and in the room is actually there's actually uh Tony's helmet is uh is was on his shelf in in the background. So I love and even uh and even Kang's uh uh technology when he was like zipping through time and he was this kind of this had had the preloaded inputs. That was the set that was the that was like extremely similar to that that Tony's device gave to everybody so they could uh go through time and drop the infinity's uh stones back back in. It was you know the the little wrist contraption. It was a you know it was a disc, it was it was super uh it was super similar. So like um, so uh I so I don't know. They can um I could I could probably go on for another few hours on the on the potential possibilities. So uh I I'll just say uh I don't know. I don't know where we'll end up, but I'll be happy once we get there.
SPEAKER_00They who remains, where are we going? You seem to have the information.
SPEAKER_07I think that the the direction that we're going has As a multitude of possibilities. And I think it it has because that's what we're set up to have, right? The MCU has been consolidated as its own universe for the past decade. And now, and even to the extent where they've like they've had to explicitly state, hey, this uh the MCU is distinctly different from the comics. Shut the fuck up. There's not the same thing. They're not gonna coincide. Um so the way in which they have opened it up gives them more of an opportunity to do something that they had already been doing that DC has not had the the wherewithal or the specifically the organization to do. Um and that is continue to connect and interchange the, no, it's not interchange, but specifically connect the multitude of their properties together. So this now has the implications that all the all of the animated shows that we saw back in the 90s, all the animated Marvel and Marvel shows that we've seen over the past few years, they have space on this timeline. They have space to coexist in a way that has never been precedented, that we've never had a precedent for, as far as you know, media continuities in a way that doesn't try to adhere to this really um streamlined uh nice, clean and tidy bow of storytelling. Because now for all of it's like spot, like we have the full capacity to see Spider-Man 2099 if we want to. We have the full capacity to see Batman, not Batman, I'm sorry. I went in a completely different direction. We have the full capacity to see the Amalgam universe, um, as Dee said earlier. Um we have the full capacity. Yeah, we have the full capacity to see the X-Men. We'll see. We have the capacity to see the Fantastic Four. We have the capacity, even if they exist.
SPEAKER_06We'll see.
SPEAKER_07I'm saying like even if they exist in a different universe and they somehow you know coincide, we have the capacity to potentially see the the um the um the council of the council of reads, like there's a lot of things we have the um we have the proclivity for, we have the tools to tell a multitude of stories. And the the difference now is that we can the that that Marvel has the ability to say and guide people down different um interrelationships between different timelines and different stories rather than continuing to, and I mean they'll they'll absolutely continue to you know do this hybridization of um comic lore into the NCU and tell these kind of like original, but you know, um kind of echoes of certain tales in the comics, right? But they also now have the capacity to communicate um their comic universe with their cinematic universe and their animated universe. Like they have the ability to continue to expand in ways that you know the the comic universe could draw on stories from the cinematic universe. Like we have so much that could be done from this. Now, as far as the MCU is concerned, I don't really consider it the MCU anymore. I consider it the MCM, the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. Like we have that capacity now. Um, and it's just a matter of what direction the main story continuity is going to go on while they continue to create and allow themselves the the opportunity to do more with other shows like what if and you know what comes next for shows like Loki. Um WandaVision hasn't been confirmed for a second season. I don't think it's getting a second season, but like what would happen next following some of the characters that were introduced there, or what it would look like for them to appear in other places. So I think that where we're going is conceptually and theoretically speaking very infinite. Um, so there's that's that's where we're headed. We're headed to infinity and beyond.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you didn't have to. You really knew you could have stopped.
SPEAKER_02I my my mic was muted and I said it too.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, you did. I saw your mic being muted and I was like, great.
SPEAKER_02I was confident. I was like, all right.
SPEAKER_08Um, yeah, so she brought me back for this answer.
SPEAKER_03He has more comic book knowledge or than I do.
SPEAKER_08So I only know of two really storylines were came to conquer, and I kind of understand his power is just he's a fucking genius and he can travel through time. That that's the gist of his power that I've gotten from what I've seen of his stories involving him. Um but the funny part about it, I think second season, they're just gonna focus on uh Sylvie taking his spot and then like watch towards the end of the season, they'll bring him back or some shit. And that's if they don't bring him back in the multiversal madness movie, uh, or depending on where that falls, I forgot when that comes out. So and then next year, sometime next year. So what so watch how watch when that season drops because what they'll probably do is they might actually just wait like until the very last second and then drop him at the end of the fucking the second season. If they release the second season, like say a month or two before the multiverse of madness movie comes out, they're gonna drop him, he's gonna be gone until the end of this that season, and then gonna bring him in because he's gonna tie into the movie, and then if they do a third season, he's gonna be the main villain in that. That's the way I think they're gonna do it. I wouldn't be shocked. I know how Marvel is trying to do this whole cinematic universe with shows tied in, so there's a bunch of backstory, and it lets him explain things that they probably couldn't have said in the movie. So there's a possibility they'll just let Sylvie run as a bad guy for the for the next season until like halfway through or all the way till the end.
SPEAKER_07I mean, that that's assuming if she survived the regime change.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that is true. So, or they'll they'll pick, or they might pick another Loki, they might pick Cracked Down Loki. I would love to see his development.
SPEAKER_00I would love to see him command things.
SPEAKER_02That'd be a good animated season. He'll definitely coming back in some form or fashion.
SPEAKER_08I know I just hope the same season isn't as talk heavy as this one was. Um but outside of that, I would be, I would like to see how they play that out because um the only other oh, and there's another other idea is they'll bring Adam into it a little bit more because of how Kang and Adam are pretty tied together. And I think it was I think it's Adam. Is it Adam?
SPEAKER_02You talking about Adam Warlock or someone else?
SPEAKER_08Was it was it Adam Warlock or was it somebody else?
SPEAKER_07We still haven't gotten Adam. We got Adam teased at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Yeah, but we did, yeah, we did.
SPEAKER_08What was what was uh what was the plant? Who was the plant? Does anybody remember that or know about that? What how um Kang Congo had a bomb and he was gonna it was a person, he was gonna let that person become powerful or shit, and then when he became powerful in every fucking universe, he was gonna blow all them up at the same time and pretty much destroyed the multiverse.
SPEAKER_07I don't remember that at all. Um, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02It almost sounds a little bit like molecule man, and uh that's that's similar to what Dooman. Maybe I'm that maybe I'm thinking I'm thinking of molecule man.
SPEAKER_08I thought uh because I couldn't I couldn't think if it was Adam or Molecule Man, it was probably molecule man that was yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, because I felt if they brought in Adam Warlock, I think they would have done that with Thanos because he was so intrinsically uh attached to him.
SPEAKER_08That's what I say, because I can't even take I was gonna say the whole kill baby Thanos storyline, but I don't think I don't think they'll do that now because he's already been you know knocked out of place in this in this universe.
SPEAKER_03Well that'll still be reseted, so we don't know.
SPEAKER_08Well, yeah, and that's that's the other thing. It's like there's so much bullshit that they can do now because they're just like, oh yeah, we're just gonna tie wipe the whole thing, and it's like all right, I think y'all gonna pull the DC? Y'all really gonna do that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just like just like flashpoint. Yeah, like flash point we can do whatever the fuck we want.
SPEAKER_08Like they're just we should go now. We do what the fuck we want because we did time shit, and it's like, all right, all right, I see what y'all do. This is bullshit, but all right, like so it's the where they can go with Kang the Conquer, there's a lot of stuff they can do with Kang the Conqueror now that they're free to get away with. And it's actually quite cool. The the it's it's quite interesting to see where they go, and I think you'll probably get more of an idea as they do like most is it far away from home with spine? Oh yeah, like I said, I I I like once once you see that, I think you'll get more of an idea of what they'll do with the rest of the universe. And also, I think they're gonna try to they might try to tie hawkeye into this in some way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_03Isn't he having a is a new series coming out?
SPEAKER_07Yes, it's coming out next month or in November.
SPEAKER_08So yeah, so that's also it's it's an interesting, I it's an interesting thing because they did this whole time loop thing. I'm not 100% sure. And King the Conqueror, like you say, he's still alive in another universe.
SPEAKER_07Right. So I would also keep an eye out for what if because Doctor Strange does have an episode in What If. And so it's not clear whether or not Doctor Strange's episode and what if will be tied to the multi-manness and everything that's been occurring.
SPEAKER_08So yeah, they they they found a way to tie damn to everything in the multiverse of madness with the exception of Falcon and Winter Soldier.
SPEAKER_07Well, I mean they they they all right they multi-verse.
SPEAKER_00Okay, speculations. All right, so uh Sayone and Talonflame, what are your per projections for the future?
SPEAKER_04Maybe you did? Excuse me, you didn't.
SPEAKER_01I'm so sorry. Sorry, I was talking on you. My bad.
SPEAKER_04I heard my baby calling my last year unless you're messing up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, it's the shade brigade today. Um, I don't have any, I would say, I I would I I actually don't know. I don't know what to expect um again with this particular universe or anything that comes out of the multiverse with Marvel. Um like I believe uh Kazi was saying uh with like flashpointed reminding me like, well, y'all can do whatever the fuck you want to do now. So there's I I mean, there's it's it's so abstract. They can go anywhere with it. So I mean, I'm just here for the ride, to be truly honest. I'm curious to see what they're gonna do and to see like which which characters can kind of blend into each other or which storylines that they'll that they'll use. Um, what if was great? Um, you know, you're able to see uh characters um in a different universe, so to speak, and it meshed really well. So um that maybe probably was gonna happen with the second season of Loki, but I don't have any like predictions on what's gonna happen. I'm actually which I like. I don't I like to be surprised. So I love it, man.
SPEAKER_09There's so there's endless possibilities, you know what I'm saying? Uh Kang is definitely gonna come back full circle for sure. He already did at the ending, and hopefully they can tie in the Fantastic Four being Reed Rich's great, great, great, great, great grandbaby. Um I'm hopefully even uh I would hope there's a comic book with Gamor where she gets the infinity stones and she instead of killing everyone the way Thanos did, like half in the universe, she takes the existing and fuse those souls together. And we get an amalgamation of different superheroes, new new uh stories of how they come up and their powers. It's it's beautiful. So we can justify anything and everything's limitless. Same thing with DC and the Flash. So I I hope things really make sense going forward because now you know the possibilities endless. It's a beautiful day.
SPEAKER_00And to wrap up our predictions, uh D.
SPEAKER_05Uh, my kids are in here, so just give me a heads up. There's gonna be some talking from little ones.
SPEAKER_00No problem.
SPEAKER_05Um I I think Marvel is throwing whatever they can at the board and sitting with sticks. Uh they're they're treating this with a Socratic mindset of like let the fans tell us what they want and go off that and have that be that. I feel like they don't want to just see the downfall of their company like they did a couple years ago with Disney was uh losing steam, and they're gonna just keep on using these these Marvel characters as much as they can. And I feel like when things get really tricky for them, they're gonna throw the X-Men into the mix, even though like essentially the X-Men have already won. So, how do you use the X-Men in a world where like you know they're not accepted when they've literally just given the X-Men their own world? So uh uh they're just gonna keep on see what happens. Like, they're gonna like take sets from DC, see what DC is doing, and then use it for themselves and like you know, go like that. That's that's essentially what they're doing right now. Like, three of you have already said that they're they're copying DC and more been copying DC since the beginning. So I hate to be so analistic about this, but uh I I said at the beginning of the show that me and MCU do not get along very well, and uh they are just copying DC and just see what happens, and we're gonna run and vice versa.
SPEAKER_00Okay, awesome. So that's wraps up our show for today. I'm gonna give, of course, everybody the opportunity to continue.
SPEAKER_08Real quick thing. Um, on the comment, actually, I'm a I'm I'm more of a fan of Marvel Cinematic Universe, but I gotta do the D Murray. There's a lot of stuff that Marvel Cinematic Universe copied from DC Animation, and then DC animation, um DC Universe stuff is just copying from DC animation, they start copying from Marvel Universe. So it's almost like this this giant trade-off and circle jerk of like of like ideas and stuff we just go pass around. And it's like, all right, cool. You want to try this? I'll try. You wanna try? All right, cool. Let's go. You you want you want that? You want all right, you try this too. Oh, flashboard, yeah. We did that for the cartoons, but you you do it for your movie, and then we'll do it later, later for ours, because it makes sense. It's for our actual character.
SPEAKER_02Honestly, in any industry, if your competitors aren't doing things worth copying, they're probably not very good competitors.
SPEAKER_08And that's true. That is true. I agree with that. No, I got another point.
SPEAKER_00Great. I hope your point is where people can reach you. Shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_03You know what? You ain't shit.
SPEAKER_07I feel like y'all knew that from jump years ago, but you stuck by it nonetheless. I made a similar decision.
SPEAKER_03Okay, um, Instagram is at shampoo bracelets. On uh Twitter, it's at shammy b87 and on Discord.
SPEAKER_08Uh shampoo bracelets on Discord as well. It's the same pretty much everywhere. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh Kaz Henry.
SPEAKER_02Uh Barrett3B on Instagram.
SPEAKER_00Right. And Mr. Talonflame. On Instagram. Miss Flame, sorry. Sayone cosplay.
SPEAKER_01Sayone cosplay on Facebook, sayone underscore cosplay on IG.
SPEAKER_00They who remains. Sorry, the black McCoy.
SPEAKER_07You can find this particular variant at the black McCoy on Instagram. Um, there's another variant on Facebook by the Black McCoy cosplay.
SPEAKER_05D Murray. Uh, I'm D with FTL Nerd Talk. You can find me in a world where you find FTN Earth Talk. Uh, so everywhere. When you look for FTL Nerd Talk, pop into Google and you will find it absolutely everywhere. So uh thanks for having me on. This has been fun, uh, extensive as hell, but a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00That is not my fault. No, I'm joking. No, we try our best. Um, so yes, you can also find all of us on all of our platforms, Blurred Spectrum, uh, well, the Blurred Spectrum on Facebook and Instagram, Blurred Spectrum on Twitter, uh, or you can reach out to us on our mailbag, theblurred spectrum at umbralstarcade.com, or myself, Suchi No Shogun, Umbral Starcade on all platforms, YouTube, Twitch, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. I know I'm missing something. Oh, Discord, there it is. Um, and then if you're playing uh certain games, you can find me at uh Suchi Shogun or Suchi No Shogun, as I said in previous episodes. Uh, but that is all we have for our Loki episode. This is gonna be a doozy of an editing job. Um, but we will be back for another episode of another Marvel favorite. Hopefully, we can get something in DC relatively soon and have FTO back. Um, I'm just saying, we just we like it. I'll do it. I'm all for it. Uh awesome sauce, because we just we need some content from DC. Come on, DC, give it to us. Come on. Oh, actually, we can just review the old animated ones. Y'all want to do that? I mean, we could talk about the suicide squad.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, there's yeah, there's uh like DCF got there. We can review, so it's good. HBO Max is a thing. Doom patrol. Let's review it. Titans.
SPEAKER_00I finish after finish Titans at the end.
SPEAKER_07Uh same, I need to finish Titans as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but that wasn't an introduction to start another conversation. We will see you next time on the Blurred Spectrum podcast. Bye bye, everybody.
SPEAKER_04Bye, Evita's in.