The Blerd Spectrum
The Blerd Spectrum
MelinatedSolstice: Black Artists Day 2
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We're back with more beautifully melinated marinade over the blank canvas of life that is Black Art! We gather more creatives to dive beyond the color palette of the skin into the vibrant touches of color in the souls of more Black artists! #MelinatedSolstice #BlackArtists
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Welcome back to the Blurred Spectrum Podcast, everyone. We are here today with continuing our melanated solstice this solstice or summer this year. We're continuing the melanated solstice this year. This episode is part two of our black artists. If you remember when we had our um when we had our blur con episode, I had said that myself and several of the other panelists uh ventured around BlurCon. And you know, we were just awe-inspired. One, because we hadn't been out the house in so long, and then two, because we got to a convention and for uh for the first time in over a year. So we're just like all these new pretty things and new artists and new you know things to see, cosplayers. And we stumbled across a couple of artists that well, at least let me I just speak for myself. I stumbled across a couple of artists that I've never seen before. One of our panelists has already seen one. I double taked uh at several artists. This particular secondary artist, I saw his work, and I was completely just bamboozled by the skill.
SPEAKER_04And then um enamored is more the word you're looking for.
SPEAKER_13No, I was bamboozled because when I showed up and I was like, Oh, I gotta get this poster, and then you're saying I don't have any more. I'm saying I saw enamored. I'm telling you, I was trying to get the poster and I was bamboozled because he didn't have any more, so I had to come back the next day to go and get the poster, which I did, and I still got it, it's signed and it's on the wall, so that's why I mean bamboozled. But yes, the enamor was in my eyes, I will give you that. But then this other artist, her oh my god, how do I say this? The the the the passion and the strokes in her work. Thank you, thank you. Um, it's just it it's so this the emotion in what she's drawing is so raw. It's just um I'll save that for the actual interview. Anyway, so first I have to introduce our panelists for today, starting with myself, your moderator, Suchino Shogun. Also, I have Kaze Shinryu. Yo, yo, I have the black McCoy.
SPEAKER_04Bonjour.
SPEAKER_13I have Miss Skittles.
SPEAKER_04Hello, everyone, I have shampoo bracelets. Oh, okay. Where's the other one? I didn't hear the original one first. It was real quiet in the background, right?
SPEAKER_13Uh, and then I have uh our two guest black artists for today, starting with Miss Jocelyn Short. Hi, and then we have uh Mike. Hi, everybody else has a cool name, but oh I was just about to say, so we normally give, you know, we allow all of our uh guests to you know give themselves some type of alias. So you know when you come back, we can call you by that name. So uh, do you have a alias or a uh that you'd like to put to place?
SPEAKER_11Uh I go, I I have so many things. Uh oh call of duty and Tommy Tickles. I'm all over the place on top of Call of Duty. I was Tommy Tickles for like three years.
SPEAKER_00Tommy Tickles sticking with it.
SPEAKER_12It has been locked in. Mike is now Tommy Tickles.
SPEAKER_13That's where we are. It was and now it's continuing. And then Miss Short, you want to stick with Jocelyn Short? That's cool.
SPEAKER_00Jocelyn Short.
SPEAKER_13She's like, I ain't making that mistake.
SPEAKER_04It's because I'm thinking about Tommy Thickle.
SPEAKER_00No, that's all that name will never leave my consciousness.
SPEAKER_07Oh my god, Tommy Thickle.
SPEAKER_04Imprinted.
SPEAKER_13All right, so uh, of course, we're gonna start with a couple of questions for each of our guest panelists, see where they're at, see how they got here. Uh, and we'll start with Miss Jocelyn Short, if you don't mind. So, you know, uh, like I said, we you know, we saw you at BlurCon. Uh, we've seen a lot of your work on Instagram. Um, uh, our one of our panelists, the Black McCoy, has shouted your name from the rooftops and other episodes about your work, about uh the different things that you've done so far, the books that have come out, which we'll you know get into a little bit later. Uh, but uh tell it to us. How did you get started? What would you call your art style?
SPEAKER_00Um, okay, so how I got started, uh I'll try to give you guys a cliff notes. Um I'll be here for a while, feel free. Um high school was ending, and it I had a choice to make of a major, and I was like, um, I've you know, I've always kind of done art my whole life, but like in 10th grade in high school, I discovered like a love for singing, and so I was like, oh, should I major in music? So it was either music or art. And I decided on art because I was like, well, I've always done art, and so I was like, okay, cool. Um, so I went to Prince George's Community College and studied art there, got credits, and then I learned about the Academy of Art University in San Francisco, which is different from the Art Institute. Um, yeah, the Academy of Art University um in San Francisco, and I did their online program uh for my bachelor's. Um, and I got my bachelor's in visual development, which is basically like the pre-production process for animated films. Um and I graduated in 2017. Uh, once I graduated, um, I didn't know what to do. So I um I took a mentorship later on that year after I graduated with a concept artist's name is Anthony Jones. And it was really helpful for me because I was like in a like the mentorship was just like a month long, and I was I like it just confirmed for me, like, oh okay, like I do actually know how to do this, like, because I I felt like I hadn't had any context of like practice to you know to to confirm whether or not I was actually able to do it, and then that mentorship helped, and I was like, oh yeah, I can. So then um uh I hadn't gone to conventions in a while, um, but I started attending them again uh because of my boyfriend who really enjoyed going again as an adult, and I was like, all right, well, you know, and I started going too and I noticed the artist alleys. I've always gone to artist alleys, I've I've been going to conventions out since I was 14. Um Otacon was my first convention, and so I was very familiar with artist alleys, but um I'd never considered like partaking in any, you know. But then I, you know, after school, I was like, I feel like I can do this. Like I feel like my stuff is good enough to like get in. So um I looked up how to get in, you pay your money, and they they they say yay or nay, and you're in there or you're not. Um and so I went. Uh first convention was Catsicon, probably in 2017. And that was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun. It was a long day, but I really like meeting people a whole lot. Like I love talking to people, meeting new people, and it was great. And it it gave me um like a sense of confidence because I was like, okay, well, people are gonna come talk to me because I have a table, as opposed to me going to talk to people. Um, so it was a good starting point. And um, I just kept doing conventions uh and I found that I was getting work from the convention. So, like it you never know who's gonna be at these conventions, which is what I'm finding. It's like everyone, literally everyone, goes to conventions uh in these industries, in the entertainment industry, and it's really cool. Like, um, I remember at KatsuCon one year I was tabling and I met the guy who I think he did the intro to the boondocks like music. And he he came to my table, he was a fan, and I was like, Wow, what? Um and then okay, so fast forward to um I think 2018, uh I was tabling at BlurCon and um I met someone by the name of Camille, and they came to my table, they really liked my stuff. Um, I had that was like one of the first times where I had like um bearers' prints out, and it wasn't anything, it was just some character designs that I made and just decided to turn into prints. And but I put like a little logo on it to show that like this is like a series of characters. Um and Camille came to my table and then asked me, like, oh, what is this? And can you tell me, you know, what this is about? And I had like a little makeshift story about what it was about. And um, they were like, Oh, I'm really interested in this. Can you tell me more about it? Like after this convention, and they gave me their card and they um and they told me who they worked for, and I was like, Okay.
SPEAKER_04Nervous wedding.
SPEAKER_00Right, and you know, fast forward from that convention, we talked more. They asked me to pitch an idea for a film based on my concepts to their company. Um, and I was like, Yeah, um I didn't, I don't know any, I didn't know anything about pitching, screenwriting, any of that. But I was like, I would say no. So um I I learned how to do it. Um things have evolved since then. We're still working together, and I'm in embarrassed has kind of taken on um a life of its own where I've developed a whole world and I'm developing stories for these characters, and I I want it, I feel like it had it has weight and it can be a very um just a it can be a thing, like a big thing. So I I I am working to give it the attention I feel it deserves. Um, but alongside that I'm freelancing, um I'm a freelance cospic artist and always trying to get work um in video games and trying to get my skills better, um, and also just trying to at this point make this career more viable for myself because uh I need more money right now. Um, but uh yeah, that's that's my story so far.
SPEAKER_13Phenomenal. I don't know if you all can see, but the Black McCoy, of course, is holding up the bears. Um and I was going to actually ask, you know, for our listeners who may not know what you mean when you say the bears, and you said you had, you know, your little snippet explanation of what the uh storyline is. Maybe give them a little bit of it.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So um, so you know how in uh funerals you have the pallbearers that will take the casket from the funeral to the grave site. Um well, my bearers, what they do, they are soul couriers who escort the souls of people who've died alone to the final resting place of their choosing, and they give them a myriad of choices, such as um you can um like uh when they talk to a soul who's passed, who's died alone, they'll offer them choices such as um crossing over to be at rest, uh crossing over into another life. You can go back as a spirit, watch over your loved ones, or you can haunt someone. Um and they're meant to be unbiased because when uh uh a person who is a bearer, they are manifest into a specific kind of bearer based on what kind of life they lived. I mean, like if like for example, I have a mother bearer who escorts the souls of children who've died alone, and that's that that's a vast kind of age range. Um, you know, and during her life, while she was alive, the focus of her life was on children and not just so much that like she had a lot per se. In fact, this particular character that I'm making, she didn't um birth any herself, but just that children were surrounded, like like her whole entire life was just engulfed around the idea of just like children and raising children and like in in uh investing energy into children. Um, and that's a common theme amongst my bearers, is that they manifest into a bear, a specific kind of bearer based on what the focus of their life was. Um, so for example, I have a justice bearer, I have a mangle bearer, meaning um a lot of her life while she was alive was focused on the macabre. Uh, and that is manifested into um the kind of people she experiences and is meant to escort uh in death. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04I guess you mentioned the mother bearer because I remember that was actually the very first piece of art I ever bought from your table.
SPEAKER_13So, you know, I uh I had seen the artwork, of course, because the Black McCoy has it. And you know, I was like, oh, okay, this is amazing. But you know, I didn't ask any questions. And then when I came across your table at BlurCon, I was like, wow, like the there was a meme I saw about the contrast between, you know, uh artists who paint certain things. I think it was like you have a happy-go-lucky person, and their their artwork is kind of more darker and more, you know, shadows and things. And then there was like the dark goth person, and then they had like more happy-go-lucky themes and like pop and stuff like that. And you're like a cross in between because like I've seen the artwork that you have, especially stuff on Instagram, like the different great, like I would love Sayone Cosper to be here because the different gradients and the uh the swirls of different like mystical uh lines and colors is just so I don't have words for I'm not really good at like the whole color description. That's why I wish he was here, but this is so amazing. I don't I don't think I can ask you how did you come up with it, but like what kind of gives you the inspiration behind a lot of the styles that you use to create some of these pieces?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So some things that I'm really into, um uh like, well, for example, I'm really into the Rococo time period, um, which was the uh mid to late 1700s. Um, and essentially thank Marie Antoinette just that time period. Um, and I'm really into it because everything was so extra and extravagant for literally no reason at all. Um nothing needed to be as elaborate as it was, and it was just out of control. And it just as I was like learning art history, it was very interesting to me, just like how over the top that time period was, followed by like like shortly after that. Um well, not quite shortly after that, but just you think of time periods following that and think of like how different uh architecture and fashion looks amongst the decades and amongst the centuries. Like you think of like um certain like time periods like shortly after that, like how architecture maybe just turned into just like boxes instead of just like over-elaborate things. That's because during most times it's like war. There was no money to invest in like like hyper architecture and like all this elaborate flourish. Yeah, we just need a box.
SPEAKER_06That's what we need.
SPEAKER_00That's that's what we need. So it just and that's very interesting to me. Also, I just love I love dramatic things. Um, I'm really into um Final Fantasy as my favorite series, and I'm really obsessed with the summons. I'm obsessed with the summons in every single one of those games. I'm obsessed with things that feel bigger than you, yeah. Like that and are undeniably bigger than you. Like I really like that. I like things to feel very moody and um for them, I like things to feel tangible. I don't know if that makes sense, but I I yeah, um I like to be able to look at it and and feel arrested by things. So I've tried to go for that in and I try to emulate what what paintings and what things evoke that in me. Um so I can't remember the artist's name, but there's an artist who I I love who those paintings just do that for me. But it just they're so dramatic. And it's like it feels like it feels like real life in a movie have collided and you're in that moment. So um, yeah, those that's those are some things that inspire me.
SPEAKER_13Phenomenal, phenomenal. Um, that's actually, you know, several times we've had conversations about like art and colors and and uh themes, you know, uh both Miss Skittles, uh the Black McCoy, and uh uh Sion A Cosplay will always you know talk about you know the different uh uh color palettes and you know styles of how things look and how things feel. And one word that always comes off is very avant-garde, like it's you know, larger than life, it's you know, different colors, it could be darker colors, lighter colors, but it's the explosion of the different things that are going on on the screen or different things that are going on in front of you. And you can easily see that in your work. It's like I just so many different shades, it's just so amazing to sit and look at. Um, I like I can stare at one of your pieces for like hours and just like, wow, how did she come up with this? And why did why does her because I for me when watching an artist paint, it's always like, what makes your hand do that? Like, you know, sometimes they're painting a portrait, but other times they're just letting their hand move. And it's always a thought of what brought you to move your canvas-based existence in that direction. And I know that was that was that wasn't even that deep. I was just saying words, but it was very, it was very interesting to see that. And um, I guess my last question is, you know, and I always have to ask it to each of our black artists when you because of course this is our you know, melanated solstice, and you know, we have black artists on. The question for you is when you hear the word black art or black artist, what's the first thing that comes to mind?
SPEAKER_00Um I I I I think I think of importance, but I also think of um how hard it is to exist as a black artist, meaning it just like a very brief uh elaboration of that. I just being in this space and and seeing other black artists, I see so many iterations of black people trying to figure out what it means to them to be a black artist. And it is very interesting to watch and it's like it's trying to navigate, it's it's very interesting to see different people trying to navigate this space and figure out like what art means to them and like you know, versus like having an art business, producing a product, all of that kind of stuff. It's very interesting. So uh complicated, complicated important and complicated.
SPEAKER_13Okay, awesome, awesome. So uh thank you, uh Ms. Shorts. Uh, we will be coming back for more questions momentarily, but we're going to swing over uh uh the black and quiet. I know you are a scribe. Uh can we uh can can can we recall the name that we've uh dubbed uh for this next uh uh artist?
SPEAKER_04Oh my god, yes, absolutely. Um uh my my notes say uh Tommy Fickles. Tommy Fickles coming to the stage. I'm joking. I'm not joking. Um that's the um I mean OnlyFans is getting rid of that content anymore. So if you are prepared to drop that link, please let me know.
SPEAKER_10Um Ms.
SPEAKER_04Skittles is currently getting that cosplay together. So it will be hands-on.
SPEAKER_13Oh yes, it has to be hand zone. Um so uh Mr. Tommy Thickles, uh, we are you know here to ask you several questions. Uh I kind of want to know where Tommy Thickles came, but you told us I kind of want to know again. Uh but we'll come back to that. Uh what um I like I said that before, I did also see your work at Blurred Con. And um it it 100% grabbed my attention. It stopped me from moving, it stopped me from walking past. And it's it's interesting to you know, see the different variants of your work. Um, the different characters, and all the characters speak to me because they're, you know, you know, based off of you know, Marvel or different anime or different, you know, pieces that you've created, you know, uh from whatever inspiration. Each of them speaks to me in a different way, but they all I all Relate to all of them. But that has nothing to do with the first question I was about to ask you, which was, how did you get started becoming the black artist that you are today?
SPEAKER_11Um I mean, I think I've pretty much been drawing most of my life. Like I remember drawing when I was like five, and I was like, Oh, I want to draw my own Pokemon or Digimon. So I was like, what would mine look like? Or um, I don't know if you guys remember that show Fighting Foodons. Yes. Yeah, very rarely do people know what that show is, but um uh but like people would like I would watch that show, I'd be like, I want mine to be something like that, and I'll try to draw my own version of that or something. Um but uh eventually I took I just stopped doing it. Like I was just like uh I don't think I'm drawing anymore. So I stopped and had like a little hiatus, then I got back into it around high school, end of high school, early college area. Um my parents didn't really want me to do art, so I had to find something else to do. So I got my degree in mechanical engineering. So I had to choose always an engineer. I had to choose between you know, engineering or art when I got there, and I was like, uh, I'm already here, so might as well finish it, you know. Don't want to waste all that money, you know. Um, but eventually, like even in classes, even in my engineering classes, I would still be drawing. So I would be drawing in the classes, and I was like, oh, I should probably start doing more things, you know. I want to be deeper into this. I really enjoy this. Uh I got into I started hearing about uh Comic-Cons and things like that. Like I've already seen it on TV, but I'm from like a a small town in Virginia, so like there was nowhere around for me to go look at anime or you know, go to cons or anything like that. Um so once I got to I went to school in Richmond. Um I mean uh yeah, Richmond, Virginia. I went to VCU. Um eventually I was like, oh, I should go to cons. And a lot of my friends there, they were deep in anime and stuff like that. So I was like, oh, I want to go to that with you guys next time you go. And it hit the fan from there. So I was like, uh, I need to do this more. I went to Artist Alley, I went to the Merchant Sable, and I was like, I love all this. Um, all this stuff you see on my walls is like a third of the the rest of my walls are covered in just art that I've got from cons and things like that. It's a serious like I have stuff right here on my wow on on my desk. Just it's everywhere in my house. So that's okay.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, you're in the same space.
SPEAKER_01Right, it's addiction.
SPEAKER_11Uh so I mean, yeah, so once I did that, I was like, I want to do this. So I started getting into started researching like um tablets. And uh I was just trying to figure out what tablet I needed, and I needed the most expensive thing, and I was like, no, I don't need that. I just need to get something a simple tablet and pirate pirate photo pirate photoshop.
SPEAKER_01That's what I did.
SPEAKER_11Um, so that's what I'm using now. Um, it's going pretty well. Uh and I'm kind of a jag of all trades when it comes to art stuff. I do traditional things, I do digital things, I've animated for um a music video for some guy, and like I I think he was in like Russia or something. Um I did a couple of like children's books for people. Um I'm looking into augmented reality art so I can make my art stand out even more. And I also have an animation that I want to work on. It's uh um it's always been in the back of my mind. I just need to learn how to animate, but I've been all over the place. That's pretty much how I got into it. I was just like, I don't want to do engineering that much, so I want to go into art. I'm still doing engineering, but I mean, you know, you know, so career transitions are not always seamless like we need them to be.
SPEAKER_04So not easy at all.
SPEAKER_11Uh at all. But yeah, uh, as far as where I'm from, I'm from a little small town, Lynchburg, Virginia. It's um, I don't know if you guys heard of like Liberty University, it's literally that town. Um very small and you know, to the south. I was in the country side of that, so I'm a country boy from who moved into the city, and that's a whole different life for me. So I'm just like, oh, okay. I like this more than not being able to do anything at nine o'clock at night.
SPEAKER_04Um so I mean, listen, it's it it gets dangerous when it gets dark outside. For real.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, that's pretty much how I got an art stuff okay series of events, series of events, uh fortunate events, so phenomenal. So, you know, you follow the passion that you had that you know it didn't just spawn, it kind of propped at five, and you just you know, danced in of it, dance out of it, but eventually found your way back to because it just wouldn't leave you alone. So, you know, with that, do you feel how do you feel about or how do you react when you see people's reactions to your work? What is the innate emotion that you feel?
SPEAKER_11Uh happiness, honestly. Um BlurCon was the first one where people actually like wanted to, you know, buy it.
SPEAKER_04Uh wait, wait, wait, backing up. Was this year your first BlurryCon? This past, yeah. This year, was this year your first BlurCon?
SPEAKER_11Uh this is my first BlurCon selling. I went to the one last time. Wow.
SPEAKER_04Oh, so so this was your first Blurcon selling. And then oh wow, I'm so happy for you. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, that was my first time. It was a whole new, whole new world for me. I liked it though, you know, for like the it's for the culture for real.
SPEAKER_13No, no, one thousand. So one thing I wanted to ask is so as you said, you know, you've uh always been in art. How did you end up in art and capoeira? Because that was the conversation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because I do remember that year, because you were dressed as Eddie Gordo one year, and you there's another Eddie Gordo cosplayer, and y'all were doing the capoeira thing, weren't you?
SPEAKER_11Me? I don't I wasn't dressed as Eddie Gordo, but I do remember that guy, and I did do Capoeira with him.
SPEAKER_04I remember I I know because I technically got pictures of that moment, and now uh I know exactly who it is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11Um yeah, so along with art, martial arts has also been a part of my life. So just like same age, I've always been watching watching like Jackie Chan movies. That was my favorite martial artist. Um, obviously, I get in trouble for watching Power Rangers and Ninja Turtles because you know me and my cousins would start play fighting right after the show was over. Um like no no questions, you get in these hands. Yeah, I'm gonna show you what I learned. Um we made a waste is that all my cousins are um females, so oh no, they were they were tomboys, they beat me up. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_04Um I got in trouble. I I would have been beating your ass up too.
SPEAKER_11I got in trouble for them beating me up. Like that's all no, just wait.
SPEAKER_01Um, why is Tiffany Dynasty for shit?
SPEAKER_05That's why um look, I was a time boy, so I know, I know, like one of those all tiny and innocent shit. Definitely trying to give hands, like what we fight, okay. I don't want to get a girl. Well, guess what? You about to get hit, then wow, dirty, just immediately screwed up.
SPEAKER_11And they know they want to get in trouble, so they hit you harder. They'd be like, ah but um, yeah, that's I mean, martial arts has been my life since I was like a child. Um eventually I got older. Um, I found like a martial arts school that my mom wanted me to put me in, so I got my I got into karate um very young. But I also it through karate I learned about martial arts tricking, which is like um doing like the backflips and all the stunts you see in movies and stuff, like pretty much everything Captain America did in the movies, like Black Widow and all that stuff. That's what we learned in the movies and stuff. Um and through that I learned a little bit of Capoeta, a little bit of jujitsu, a little bit of I'm all over the place. Um eventually I got my black belt and karate. Um right now I'm just learning my jujitsu life right now. I did a jiu-jitsu competition last weekend, that's why I couldn't do the do this, do this with y'all this last weekend. So I was like, yeah, the 29th might be better. I don't know how I'm gonna feel. Um but yeah, that's pretty much all I have. So I do capoeta, martial arts tricking, um jujitsu. All I'm all over the place. Um, then that's a part of the animation stuff that wanted to do too. So like that movement and all that. Oh, and I did parkour as well. I did parkour for a while.
SPEAKER_13I don't know many people who do capoeira in this day and age who don't do parkour as well.
SPEAKER_00So you just op you just OP out here? OP parkour.
SPEAKER_11Uh I am a jack of all trees and a master of the cards.
SPEAKER_04I don't know what you're gonna be training for, but y'all know something that we don't know.
SPEAKER_13Hey, you just select to be prepared. Let me know when you're teaching classes because I've always wanted to learn cut boys, even if it's a little bit you got, but I'll take it.
SPEAKER_11I got you. I'm gonna teach you how to know.
SPEAKER_13Take a chance to genie, y'all. Uh I'll I'll see Miss Kittle's on the way. We we just gonna be in there. It's just a go and let me know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, uh, with you. She got enough wool, she got enough violence in her already.
SPEAKER_11We already raised our hands right now. Make them legal.
SPEAKER_01Make them legal.
SPEAKER_13So so um I have to ask, because like I said, I you know, I saw a bunch of different styles of work. I mean, I think the pieces that I got, like uh we got what Black Panther and Killmonger, uh Miles Morales and Spider-Man. Um, there was a couple of other pieces that were, you know, pretty much I would call them black black art pieces, uh just you know, black people in different uh different settings and different styles. So like what what was what is the inspiration behind your work? And then what would you call your art style?
SPEAKER_11Um I don't know if I haven't really I've never really figured out what my style is per se, but I think a lot of the inspiration I do is usually black people. So like I usually enjoy drawing black versions of you know of non-black characters or drawing grown-up versions of black characters or things like that. Um like the I don't know if you remember the Powerpuff Girls ones that I had. Yes, yes, yeah, like I had those, those were um, you know, those are just black versions of them growing up. And I was like, oh, I wonder what they would look like growing up, but also black, and then went from there, you know. Um a lot of my stuff sometimes has like a I guess urban style to it. I like those clothes like cyberpunk or streetwear, things like that. So sometimes my art has that stuff in it, but I like to venture out when trying to expand my vocabulary.
SPEAKER_13Okay, and then of course, as I have two of all of the uh black artists we have, I have to ask you the question. Um, and this might be an interesting one because it might be a repeat of the question that's asked, but I asked the question anyway. When you hear the word black art, what is the first thing that comes to mind?
SPEAKER_11Um that's hard. I like what um Johnston said. I was saying inclusivity along along with that. Um it's hard, like she said, for like black artists to get noticed or you know, find find a way to make that their not only their passion, but their career, I guess. So when I hear black artists, I like to I like to think that they're you know moving up, you know, moving on to bigger, better things. At least I'm hoping so, you know. So for me, I just hope that when I when I hope when people hear black artists, they don't see like a stake member time behind it. I hope they see it as like a hey, this is a black artist who's trying to build, you know.
SPEAKER_13Well, thank you. Uh Tommy Thickles. Uh we have several other questions later on. Um we'll circle back to them. Um I will uh I guess I'll let the black McCoy introduce our uh third artist who happened to just you know pop in, you know, mid-uh mid-sess. Uh I'll let you go ahead and do so.
SPEAKER_04You would do that as like I'm finishing up chewing food.
SPEAKER_13You shouldn't have been eating during the podcast. That's yeah, number number two rule.
SPEAKER_04Um, so our our next one, yeah. Mm-hmm. Take your time to swallow pineapples. Um, so our next guestwork not only like really bewitches the senses, but like brings this kind of brilliance to the different vibrant hues of like the melaninated experience, whether it's in person or on the interwebs. So um, I would like to bring you all before you do.
SPEAKER_13Before you do, before you do, did you have the shit on all of my in my introductions? Is that what you just had to do right there? You had to like put your whole little stank on it? Like you just I introduce those two, and then you just do this whole like soliloquy to introduce the next that that's what you did just then.
SPEAKER_04Um yes, absolutely. Um I bring you, I bring to you all tall and quirky, everyone. Oh, she came with the background. You're we shouldn't hear you. Okay, so let's get into this background right now. Wait a minute. A lot of amazing things going on.
SPEAKER_09There's a lot of things. Oh, I'm stupid. I had it on mute. I'm so I like saw the link, the lights were blinking. I was like, oh damn. Well, okay. Well, hold up. I was like, trying to put it on the face. I was like, oh no. Like, I basically just like last week I came from California, so I'm still trying to come back to the Eastern time. Oh no, so I'm just like, I was just like, I saw, I was like, I saw the time. I was like, oh no. And I was like, oh no, you can't bear face. I was like, oh, I have time. I was like, do do do no problem at all.
SPEAKER_13First of all, thank you for joining us. Uh thank you for being here today with all everyone. This is tall and quirky. Um, so of course, we're gonna ask you, you know, just a couple, you know, introduce uh a couple of interview questions, uh, starting with the first one. Um, how did you come because I've seen your work. Uh, I've just seen your work on Instagram. Like it's it is very, I mean, I don't y'all, y'all can't see her background right now, but like her her artwork is like as as the black woman was saying, very bewitching. It's it's like there's so many different pops of attention in different sections of her artwork. It's very uh alluring at times as well. So um I have to ask, how did you get started? How did you become the black artist that you are today?
SPEAKER_09Um, I think at first, like I guess like like all of us, we like we started when we were young. Like my father, I like my father used to draw, but like not like like professional, but he loved doing it for fun. And I was like, oh, I want to draw like him. So that's how I got started. And then I I love, I still do, but like I love anime, so that's kind of how that started. So I started with a lot of anime and stuff like that. But like I think as I got older, because like when I was younger, I think I drew a I did not draw a lot of like people who looked like me, because it's just was like like a little bit of a little bit of self-hate um at that time. But then as I got older, I was just kind of like, well, I just got I just kept getting annoyed that every time I saw black art um done, especially when it's not done by like black people, they ever something always feels off. That's it's just it made me so angry. I was like, I was like, that's not how the hair looks, that's not how that looks. The skin looks very ashy. I was like, I don't. So then I'm like, I just from there, I just like I tried my best to learn theory. It it still happens and it it dries my oh Lord, there's nothing. Oh, there was this one art that I saw, I forgot what game it was, but like the cornrows were just like I it was just little hairs were like flying away. It was just, but it made no sense. And I was just like what is happening? I was like, what is happening?
SPEAKER_13Sometimes I'm like, just if you if if you if that's what you're gonna do with black hair, just make it a fro again because it's it just I just the same hairstyles cornrows, locks, chonky locks at that.
SPEAKER_00They're like, they don't just ooh, pet piece, but anyway, it's so crazy, it's so crazy because literally it's a Google search. It's it is literally a Google search a way you can make a Pinterest board of don't hire anybody in the book.
SPEAKER_04And all you have to say is black hairstyles. That's it. That's it.
SPEAKER_09It's you there's so many on Pinterest. I Lord, just we'll we'll save that.
SPEAKER_04We'll say that for right after this.
SPEAKER_09I'll get there.
unknownWe'll get there.
SPEAKER_00What do black people be?
SPEAKER_09What even I don't even they're just like, oh but how? But how?
SPEAKER_04And you're just like the other one, just go grab a nigga off the street. I'm just saying very easy. You didn't have to like officially contract them out, just give them $200 and ask him a question.
SPEAKER_09Funny enough, I have a I do have a story about that for for later. Um but yeah, I just I I did go to art school for a little bit. I went to like OCAD. Um, I don't recommend it, but like um I'm like I it was not it was not it. Um, but I from there I got to meet some people and um I've had people who've helped me learn something because I later on is when I discovered I wanted to go into concept art. Um, but as for like a timeline, it really kicked off for me during the pandemic, funny enough. Um when everything started happening in the summer, it's like then people kind of took notice, which is it's it's weird and it's a very sad way for because you're like you're mourning, but you're having to hustle. So it's kind of like you have no time to grieve. But but because of that, they were there were people giving away mentorships, and so I was like, I was like, Well, I'll try. So the mentor I had was very sweet. He he was patient, he taught me the rules of the trade, and then from there it just like I um then Black Tober came around and I just kept putting out work, and then it's things started to go from there. But I like it just from that I was learning the process of how to do the work that I do and just kind of experiment and play around with things, but like just now that's all my that's literally all my portfolio is now. So it's just like I have forgotten how to draw other things other than black people, so that's good. I'm like I'm like I do. Well, so I'm like who is um I've almost forgotten. His name is Javier, so like he works, he does um what studio is yet? I think it's at Scopley. It's like he's in um Spain now, but I never knew about him before this point, but like he was he took me and this other and this other guy, and he was like he he was we're doing we did like straight for like two months, like he gave us a project and he's like, Hey, like let's work with this and stuff like that. And then um the beauty that I had with him is that a lot of times after the summer petered off, people kind of disappeared. But he like to this day, he's still very much like in my life, and he'll he'll like um if he hears job something job wise, he'll tell me about it. He'd be like, Hey, you know, like he's like, and like I told I pointed this person in your direction, woo-doo-doo, go like uh like um, which is really sweet to me because I'm like I've heard a lot for some people like things kind of disappeared once that summer went away with it. So um I am really grateful for him for what he did for me. Because now it's like now I'm just kind of like I now kind of understood understand more the game realm. So um from there, ever since then I start to like I just it just kind of clicked. But uh usually for when I do get work for console art, it is I am the black consultant.
SPEAKER_13So that's um you know what representation matters as long as somebody's being called.
SPEAKER_09That was what that was it's for like one time I got it for like a mobile game, and they're just like, listen, we just we just don't want to do the hair wrong. If you could just if you could just if you could just make up like if you can make give us some references as well as like a skin references, yeah, and and some skin and a skin chart, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_07So I like I didn't know if you had a skin chart, so like I had to paint it out.
SPEAKER_09I had to send them. I I sent them like examples of Sims like C look, 4C can be possible in 3D, like it's it can happen. I promise you. And it's sad to me because I'm like, you have like this this because the person who does it for Sims, like I forget their name, but like they're doing it for. Like for free and like they're doing it very well. And I'm like, and I'm like it makes me very irritated sometimes because they'll be like, well, like curly or afery hair or whatever is hard to animate or whatever. And I was like, sir, um, no, especially for C it shan't move, so you'll be fine. Like, I don't understand. Like so that it drove me baddie, but yeah, it happens a lot for me to be like, you know, whoo, that's kind of like how much how much did you charge them?
SPEAKER_04Please tell us you charge them up the ass.
SPEAKER_09Because I absolutely Oh yeah, I do, I do, I do like 300 a day day rate US. Like, that's it.
SPEAKER_11That shan't move killed me for real. Right.
SPEAKER_04I'll tell you what, if you're gonna if you're gonna if you're gonna come bring me in to consult you about something you could easily Google or make a Pinterest board about, right? You're going you are going to pay for it.
SPEAKER_09Bless their heart. They did, they did need the help because I saw the hair before, and I was just like, oh god. Just like the recipe I do declared. The baby hairs alone were like, swoops swoops.
SPEAKER_05Why are you messing up baby hair? Thank you, right?
SPEAKER_09You could draw that. It looked like um like doilies, like the end of a doilies, like doilies, like just it was so nice.
SPEAKER_11Oh my god.
SPEAKER_09And then like her eyes were going like this. Oh no, it was it was just not. I felt so sad. I was like, first off, we think we are like I'd be so sad.
SPEAKER_00I'd be like, what do you think we are out here? Like, what is going on? Doesn't make any sense. We're on Google.
SPEAKER_04Every time they make like the hairstyle with the locks, always look at one of those bad things. Thank you. You know, like the CW. Oh Jesus.
SPEAKER_00It was Tyler Perry wigs, very good.
SPEAKER_12I knew somebody was gonna say it. I thought somebody wasn't gonna say it, but somebody went ahead and said it.
SPEAKER_09But the same thing when you do like a hairline too. Like, I'm looking at this hairline doing one of these, and I'm like, it's certain, but wait, no, like, how are we gonna do the man's hair? It's like it's just follow the head, just you just follow it.
SPEAKER_12That's all you gotta do.
SPEAKER_00I you know what? It's it's no excuse, but I also understand that a lot of other cultures do not focus on hairlines the way black people focus on hairline. So because like a lot of people, like a lot of other cultures, you could just do a swoop with your hair because it just grows out, yeah. Like it just can lay. Our hair don't lay, our hair is anti-gravity, so we need to make shapes with our stuff.
SPEAKER_04Yes, so yeah, like we have to use math more than most people.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, like there's I think there's certain games are doing like I like like Apex Legends, I like their styles for the most part. Like they're they I'm like, okay, they had someone come in for this. Like, this seems like they paid attention.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they brought a nigga into the room.
SPEAKER_09Yes, yes, it's just like um you can tell, I feel like, you know.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, when when we're present, yeah.
SPEAKER_09You know, if locks is the only thing you have, not it's just it makes me sad because they don't really style the locks at all. I'm like, there's so many things. Pokemon Unite. So many.
SPEAKER_04Oh I'm still trying to figure out what they did to Lucille's here. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Um sausage links.
SPEAKER_10Oh no.
SPEAKER_00They are call it what it is.
SPEAKER_10Oh god. So um, so one of the things that I'm waterproof, man.
SPEAKER_09I got a one of these ones.
SPEAKER_13So one of the things that I I I definitely noticed about your artwork is the shading. Like uh one thing I've always disliked when looking at a certain piece of art or looking at a cartoon or a video game is they don't know how to, especially for us, because we're already quote unquote a darker tone, they don't know how to make toning and shading for us to make us pop, to make us look like we're actually in the scene. So it's like all the white people, you can easily put a shade on them, but for us, it's kind of like, oh, how do we make a darker brown? Let's just make them dark and we'll just see that. I'm like, and then the opposite of dark is you know, some type of red. And I'm like, you're giving us red lips again? All right, cool.
SPEAKER_09Oh Lord, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_13So looking at looking at all of your work, like the different shadings, the different ombres, like what what how did you come to the point? Is that a part of your training, or what is that something just innate that you learn how to do?
SPEAKER_09When I first went about, like as I like uh with concept and whatever, I was trying to figure out a way to like streamline my process. And for when it comes to skin tones in general, um, I like I'm like I love using like chonky shapes for everything. So I'm like, my rule of thumb is to simplify, simplify, simplify, simplify so that I can make sense of things. So the way I do things is I love the last whole tool. So I will rope that around and cut out my shapes and whatever, and like and then multiply. Because with um darker skin tones, if you use like like a multiply layer, which is to kind of shift the thing, like just to make things like make it darker, but without taking away the values of things. Um, I'll use like a blue, a purple. I love using blues and purple because it makes like I love a night scene, um, as far as things go. But if you use like just play around, just play around with stuff, you can kind of figure things out. This is where I feel like like color theory has gone to the wind for some people because I believe they're like they know it for light skins, but ever since like you know, if you're anything black or whatever, they're just like, oh, I don't know, you know, and it's like the same, like the same rules apply, just you have to adjust things for uh for the colors. It's kind of like I think I guess mentally I think about like for people who do tattooing. I'm like, you can have colors, you just have to you have to color theory shift it along. But people don't think about that, and then all of a sudden, again, that goes back to like people look ashy, where it's just like they're like for some reason you can have someone who's like, I don't know, like like who's like dark skinned, but for some reason they look like like sweet, like I don't describe it, like it's a weird gray, like it doesn't and it drives me nuts. Like, and you can you can have those rich tones, but you just have to understand color theory, and I don't understand why it's so hard.
SPEAKER_00Truly, right? That specific part of color theory, they missed it.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I will say though, for the people like for in like when I was in school, I didn't have there were no life models I had who were lighter than like plaster, so like it just was like you did not know, like they they didn't teach that when I was in school. I had to go out and learn this stuff myself, like they didn't know what to like what to do, and so like I wish for these schools they had different life models and stuff like that. Like, I found you know, black life models because I just went out, but they never brought them in, so they did not, yeah. So that's very frustrating.
SPEAKER_13Okay, now have to talk about what I don't say, everybody, but I want to know tall and quirky, five ten. Yeah, was this was this a was this an obstacle? Or because it seems like you know, I've seen some of your posts where you know you're letting people know, okay, before you walk up to me, you're gonna have to look up. So, you know, let's let's get the let's get this out the way first. So has this been something that has been a constant?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, like I'm like now in my adult life, I love heels, so I'm like, I'll be even taller when I meet people. But for when I was younger, it was like I was very much like I guess I was I was the awkward nerd or whatever. So, like, because I'm like, you know, I was I didn't know how to talk to people whilst like an anime, so I can't blame the anime, it was very much me, but like I just was like, I was also very clumsy growing up, and it's just like I was just very awkward in my skin. So like I always shrunk myself down when I talked to people. So I guess it was it was kind of just me, just like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm tall and I'm like, oops, sorry, I didn't wait, I don't know if I can swear. You're in a safe space.
SPEAKER_04All right, I was like, whoops, oh no, you literally say whatever the fuck you want. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_09Okay, sweet. Um, what was I saying? Oh, yeah. So, like, um, but also I've been most of my life been told I've been weird, like, which is like I'm like, it's fine, it's cool now, so it's fine. But um, it's just more like it's me like being okay and accepting it, be like, yeah, like I'm tall. Now the ironic part is now that I think I've met since I've now been in these spaces, I have met people much taller than me. So I was like, so I feel like I was like, oh, this is like I'm not that I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_04So like my other my other friends are analyst Lady Legacy. Oh, she's easily taller than me. Yeah, that's my my sister.
unknownGreat lady.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, if you get a chance to meet her, you will see why it's wild.
SPEAKER_09I'm like, I was like, I was like, I was like, damn. I was like, okay. Like, like I have a friend, like, she's in the space, she's six feet. I'm like, but what?
SPEAKER_04Listen, I have a friend who's 6'6. Like, I didn't like the tallest around most of the like the majority of my life. I'm like, it's somehow it's comforting but intimidating, but it's also like, you know what, you're encroaching on my space. I I'm the tall person around you.
SPEAKER_09There shouldn't be more than I get very upset because I'm like, sometimes, like, so okay, real talk, like sometimes when I lay on my wigs, they're not the best. And so from the I feel like at the top of the head, you can really tell that it's not the greatest. So I'm like, I feel very upset when I see really tall people. So kind of like, if you could just get there. I'm like, please don't air space. Like, just if you could just know, no, that'd be nice. It would be nice. So okay.
SPEAKER_13So then uh before we go on to like, of course, the main uh form of questions I have to ask you the question I asked everybody else, which is when you hear the words black art, what is the first thing that comes to mind?
SPEAKER_09Um, I don't mean to regurgitate what everyone else has said, but it is inclusivity to me. Like to me, um, black art is a it's a comfort for me. Like I feel like uh when I think of black art, I think of like like people who are like myself. I feel like black art is just like creatives coming together. I feel like it's just like it feels just it feels it feels good, it feels good, and then like but yeah, when I think of it as just this black creativity, just like not conventional, you know. I I feel like being in this space more I've seen I think back like how do you put this? There's a there's a there's a little thing that like that like that's on my shoulder sometimes, like a little that I get really annoyed with is that when I s when people when people outside of the black community draw a lot of times black art, they think of like tribal a lot of the time, and that drives the bananas because it's just like it's not not even so much, it's not sometimes not even really done well, which is also an irritation, but that's another sort of another day. But like it's just like it's just that's all that that's all that you think of, and it's like I like when I think of black art, it's everything we can like witches, like vampires, like in games, combat, whatever, just like and just different. And so, like when I think of black art, I think of black spaces and then black inclusive, like inclusivity, and then just black people having fun creatively. So that's yeah, my long.
SPEAKER_13So it's like no phenomenal, phenomenal. All right, so we're now in an open air area. And I wanted to ask everyone, both our guests as well as our panelists. Um, so one thing that I think we've all kind of you know mentioned is just about black art is you know, inclusivity. Uh, wanting to see more of it. I think even in our previous episode, we were just like, you know, seeing so much of it at Blurricon and more of it at CatchUCon and you know, different areas soon and very soon. Um seeing more of it, um it it lets you know that it's there and it lets you know, oh man, this is I I can actually see myself in certain places and certain arts and certain pieces. And it's it's a phenomenal thought and it's a phenomenal thing to know that that's you know, there. Now, the question that I have to ask is we want to see ourselves in different art, but and we I think I asked something similar to this last uh last in the part one, but one of the tropes that I know a lot of us, I think all of us, have a fallen for is seeing ourselves or or putting ourselves in uh the black and cord, please. If you can find the word, please say it, but finding ourselves in uh cartoons of the past. So how we always said, you know, Skeeter was black, and how we always said um black, Miskittles.
SPEAKER_04Oh, the race coating.
SPEAKER_13What's it called? I called it race coating. Race coding, thank you. So uh race coding. Do we feel like there is a a secondary or tertiary color that represents black people in art? Or is there uh do we feel like any color could be represented by a black person?
SPEAKER_04I always say the color purple, not just because it's right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's the color purple, it's the color red, um, but also you know, it's not just their colors, their features.
SPEAKER_09The features definitely for me, like uh I think what garnet's like a pink, well, finally like a pinky purple, but no, like she's literally Garnet. Yeah, it's like bam. Um that's the it's just those.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I would definitely have the features. Um, I think we can represent any color. Um the features for me. This the features, the the mannerisms, um, you know, just the it's just the small things, and you just you I mean, like you said, we've looked at we've looked at many of characters throughout, you know, whatever, and and and said, you know what, that nigga's black. That's a black angle. So it's just the small things. Um, but of across the board, all of these characters that we've mentioned, they're they're animals, they're they're different color, green, purple, whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_05Um, and we can just look at them, how they talk, how they, you know, their mannerisms, their features, and just be like, Yep, he belonged to us. They they they at the cookout, they they belong at the cookout.
SPEAKER_11So yeah, I I would say for me, it's like my mannerisms. You just notice it, just like Skittles. She was like, uh you just it's something they do, and you'd be like, Yeah, it's it's you, I know.
SPEAKER_00Even just the implement it's like just the implementation of just like common sense sometimes in the storyline, where like that's like a runny thing for that particular character where they're always the voice of reason, um where they're like y'all.
SPEAKER_11Um but think about this though. Um, but I don't know, it's as far as inclusivity. I was gonna piggyback off that. Like I really I really, really like the show Fire Force, yes, honestly, for that. Yes, there's so many shades of black in that like light skinned or dark skin in that show, and I am all for it. I fucking love it. And so, like, especially the fact that they don't give us the stereotypical like mannerisms that they want us to have as black people, so just like oh they're black, but they also like aren't acting stereotypically what they want us to be, black, they're just people, which is really cool to me. I I really like that show, specifically because of that and so like that the person who made that also did uh what was that other show? Uh uh Soul Eater. Soul Eater, yeah. Soul Eater. So like I think Soul Eater has the same kind of inclusivity I think too. So like I just like stuff like that, like where you meet you meet us, but it's not like exactly whatever stereotypical version of us you want us to be. So I like that.
SPEAKER_04Since Mr. Thickles brought it up, um, I'm not gonna get tired of saying that.
SPEAKER_11Um we need to have this conversation real quick. Go ahead though.
SPEAKER_04But I was gonna say, I was gonna ask uh Suchi, like since uh since he brought up Fire Force, do you should do you want to tell him about the moment, or should I tell him about the moment? So it was the moment when um a very particular character uh had this amazing fight scene. And oh, you don't remember the forge? You don't remember the the so a really uh uh host is um he is Nigerian specifically, he is uh Yoruba, and there's a character named Ogun. Um when uh when Ogun uh called out Yoruba Forge, if you I was sitting next to Tsuchi no shogun during that moment, and the the the look of shock and affirmation simultaneously occurring on his face was beautiful, and it was like I even though we were sitting still at the moment, like I saw the subtle notes in his face change because it it was it was a very beautiful moment because it it was because representation management is looking like you owe me fifty dollars for calling the top. I promise you, the 20 plus years watching anime, that moment has not occurred in that way until that episode.
SPEAKER_13All I'm going to say is in reaction to this appalling uh appalling the truth story that you're throwing out, uh Paul and Quirky did make a point in saying that in a lot of different uh pieces of work, when they depict black people specifically, it is very tribal in nature. And that has always been something that has irked my essence, if you will. Um, and the the moment that you have uh uh aggressively uh reimagined verbally um was a um a moment where I was able to see someone who I guess in my mind, someone like I painted an entire story, an additional story than what they already gave us. Like this is a second generation uh Nigerian who is in this you know country, in Japan specifically, and you know, instead of him just being tribal, although he had you know the fire-branded tribal marks, they weren't done in a tasteless fashion. They weren't done in a way that made it seem like you know, his family is like living in a hut, which I saw on so many different cartoons and so many different shows in the past. Yeah. Um, so for me, when he when he yelled, you know, your before and the fact that his name was Ogun, which is like my uncle's name, um, or uncle's last name, long story. Um I said that's awesome. No, no, it it's it it there were so many different because like when I saw his name, I was like, Oh, this is interesting. I mean, do they know what that name means? Like I was questioning it the entire episode. Granted, you know, he'd been in the episode before then, and then when he activated his powers, I was like flabbergasted. Like there weren't many words I could say in the moment because I think that he he didn't say any. It's it's kind of like, and I think all of us have had moments. I I like to hope all of us have had moments where we we've seen in anime or a cartoon or an artwork, just something to even if it's in a movie, live action or drama where you see yourself, you're able like like Miss Kittle said, representation. You see yourself. There's just a there's a feeling of yo, we this is possible, like yo, it's possible in a way that's tasteful and respectful, right?
SPEAKER_00It's I have I have a recent example. This is not anime or or um animation or anything related, but it like just an example where I saw myself recently that I didn't it was like something I didn't know that I needed to see. So like there um on TikTok it was a video that was promoting like uh uh black completely black owned like hotel that you could like rent out entirely on Airbnb. Oh yeah, and it's like very close to my house, which surprised me even more. I went to the I went to their website and I looked on their website and I scrolled down on the front page and it was just pictures of black people on the hotel website. I'd never seen that before of just black people just existing in this nice hotel. Um, like and it was only pictures of black folk because usually you see, you know, just every other just you know, white folks or just any other racial ambiguity, yeah, racial ambiguity, or just like you know, multiple races in one shot. Um, but it was like only black people on the front page of this, like promoting this hotel. And it I was like I'd never seen that before. And I was like, wow, I didn't know this was the thing I needed to see. Like and it just it was very impactful.
SPEAKER_13And this was like three days ago where I saw that, and I was like, Yeah, no, no, it's it's it's something I sent that to Shampoo Braceless, actually. That that place is, and because not only is it a hotel, like I'm not gonna say it's a hotel for black people, but it like there they're they have like African pieces. Is inside of the space. Like there's places where you can like learn about the history of black people in Maryland and black people in the country nation. They had different African artworks that they had for museums. Like the stuff that you saw in Black Panther that Killmonger stole, I feel like you put in that house. Like for real, for real. Because like those are the pieces that are in there. And it I actually I didn't I've lived in this state for a very long time. And I did not know that place existed until I saw it on TikTok, which is strange because I'm not on TikTok. I so happen to see it on Facebook through TikTok. Anyway, so it was just interesting to, you know, I agree uh with Ms. Short, like it was just interesting to see something like that. Like just being able to and it's sad. I have to have to turn it a corner real quick because it's like it's interesting to see it, it's great to see representation. But then when you like take a couple steps back and you think about it a week later, you're like, why did I have why why did I feel like it took me until this moment for me to feel this? Like certain people feel that all the time when they see certain things on TV movies, all that stuff. But it's like, and I hate to be that you know the downer, but it's like I'm so excited about this one thing. Like for Miss Short to be excited about black people on a website, it's like right.
SPEAKER_00I'm 29 years old. I've seen that. Like, what are what are y'all doing?
SPEAKER_12Ain't nobody been to that.
SPEAKER_11It's interesting that you brought that up though. It's like that was like me when I was younger. I grew up in like so lunchburg. I'm just gonna be straight up is majority white. Like it it sounds it's a sound like that.
SPEAKER_04I'm assuming the majority of the town is white.
SPEAKER_11I grew up, oh so yeah, it's all great.
SPEAKER_09You gave me so um I grew up in uh Maple.
SPEAKER_11I don't know if anybody say less. Um gotta say nothing else. So like I think like our high school was like two percent black, and Asian was there was one Asian guy in our whole school throughout the years. I mean, same. I was like I got it didn't really think about it until like I got older and I was like, wow, there was only one Asian guy in our school. Like, and then I went to like VCU and I was like, diversity? What? That's exactly diversity. Um but like off what uh Jocelyn said, like when I was younger in Lynchburg, like our radio stations were like pop or like you know, things like that. And then I would be so excited to where my mom would say we're taking a trip to Charlotte or something to go to Browns and Co. Factory, because I knew that I would get the new the radio stations that I wanted to listen to. So like like 95.7 or whatever, like go-go music up here. I never got to listen to. Um just normal black music. Like all I really we really got back on was like R and B and like gospel music. So like any rap music wasn't gonna happen. So it was like, I'm so sorry. Well, yeah, it's like I don't yeah. So, like, I mean, it it was a blessing in disguise though, because like my music tastes are like very varied, like I'm all over the place. Like people are very shocked at some of the stuff that I listen. Like, I found out about um Samoan metal. Yes, and I was like Samoan metal? Yeah, I was like, Wait, wait, hold up, what is this? Playing that for like yeah, I've been playing that for like uh back to back for some time now, but yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like Johnson said, like seeing black people on on a website, you're like, wait, what? That's real, or like going to like Charlotte if I go to Charlotte and you see black commercials, and you're like, you're like, wait, wait, what? That's a thing. Like, it's just little culture shocks like that, and you're like, oh I forgot.
SPEAKER_05But it's sad, it is it really is sad when you think about it that that we're in 2020 and we're still experiencing a lot of first for us, a lot of uh first time things happening for us, and then and then when we see it, it's like you're you of course you're overwhelmed because you're like you know, representation, but at the same time, it's like, damn, why in the hell am I excited about?
SPEAKER_04It's like if you go, it's like if you go all day and you didn't realize you hadn't eaten, and then you finally you're like, damn, why did that taste so good, bitch?
SPEAKER_05It really is ridiculous, honestly. But I mean, I guess you know, part of part of me is like celeb, you know, I gotta celebrate it, but at the same time, you're just like, wow, like this is really fucked up, honestly.
SPEAKER_04I'm mad it took so long to make, but um it still tastes good. It took you wherever to get here.
SPEAKER_05I don't I sorry, no, but I'm I'm glad that we are we are seeing more black artists and in in the in the mainstream in in general, like I'm glad that our work is being seen and and we are you know care like characterizing ourselves in a way that we have we we should have always been representative of um in in the first place. Um because uh like you're saying, I've seen a lot of white like black art and the whole time you're like, oh my god, like this is some dope ass. You should you sharing this art, like yo, this is some dope ass black art, and uh the whole time is it's not even a black artist, and you're like, wait a minute, right?
SPEAKER_09Oh, speak on that because like it happens a lot. Like there's there's some weird, I don't know, like this the the pandemic brought me to Twitter, is what happened. So like I've seen the little art dramas and whatever, but like the ones that always have me cackling, there was like woo sorry, um macity. Uh anyway, like they're like there's one there's I saw an artist like they were like catfishing, like everyone, everyone thought they were black.
SPEAKER_00They were also they were did not they were just they didn't correct nobody, nope, they didn't let nobody know.
SPEAKER_09And then like okay, this is a little pet peeve of mine because it's like now the people are like it's profitable, so now it's coming out more. So there's like there's like once they see that oh this hit the rest of the art from then and then on, black, all of it, black, and you're like, all right, okay. The catfishing is a little bit uh little weird to me.
SPEAKER_04Artistic black fishing, right?
SPEAKER_09I'm like, you just I'm like like draw it if you want to, you know, but don't like it's weird when it's for the clout.
SPEAKER_04It's like it's it's it's like a new form of like fetishization. It's like you're yeah, I've seen that too. That was just like taking advantage of black bodies and black representation.
SPEAKER_11That vibe when uh uh uh McDonald's was like catering to black people on their commercials for a while. That made me feel uncomfortable. That made me feel so uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01They still do that.
SPEAKER_05What it's all but her name is that.
SPEAKER_13Oh, yeah, so weedy, she has an endorsement of my book.
SPEAKER_05Like like special type of McDonald's meal. Like didn't one of the meagles have it too.
SPEAKER_13The meagles have it. Well, one of them Travis Scott.
SPEAKER_04Those did not stop. They still make them. Yeah, they still make them in certain areas over here. I mean J Rod's like crispy chicken, fresh lettuce, but now first off, that was a jam though.
SPEAKER_13That was a bang.
SPEAKER_04I'm not saying it wasn't we're I'm not I'm not having that debate. I'm not saying it wasn't. Um I still know the lyrics. I'm not debating that, but it's just another like example of but uh as Tall Kirby was bringing up, it's just exploiting blackness for by non non-black people exploiting blackness for the sake of their own financial gain. Yep, yeah, there's we are profitable. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_11That should kill me. I was like, when when? When do we do this?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, now I want to know. What were you about to say? What were you about to say?
SPEAKER_04Yes, talking. I mean, I I saw your villainous shoulder the chat, which I was not upset with, but uh maybe a blade.
SPEAKER_09She's like, she's she always wants to be uh center of attention. She's um a little silly and you over, but anyway, yeah. There's like I've like there's one artist which can't be named, but like it's just like their whole like I saw the shift. I was like, 'cause I was like, listen, I'm a nosy person sometimes, so I did a little deep dive. And I was like, just at one point there was a shift. Um, and it just was like the whole the rest of the work with all tribal black art, all of it. But they are now like they're kind of like the go-to personnel for black skin. And I'm just like, damn, and like it's just like it's trippy to me because it just it feels so much like a fetish, also because they place themselves in that art in little little braunchy ways.
SPEAKER_08So you're just kind of like, okay, all right, okay.
SPEAKER_09And then my last pet peeve is every time they draw locks, it looks like white locks, and it makes me well, dreads. Um, and it makes me so sad.
SPEAKER_04Because those are dreadful. Yes, yes, they are. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_09It looks like what is it, the Grinch fingers? Just like yes, uh that is a great description.
SPEAKER_13I have never heard that before. Really?
SPEAKER_04I've never heard that at all. Cannot unsee it.
SPEAKER_13Hold on, hold on, hold on. I have never heard that before. You can you will never unsee it. Never unsee it.
SPEAKER_11You just broke me for real.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh, what I just since since she has me like thinking about pet peeves. OP pee I have is when I see like what so many like white artists appropriating, well, I don't know, appropriating, using, taking advantage of, exploiting like black features on white bodies and art to like create this seemingly ambiguous character, or to just to continue to like emulate that that mythos of white people always wanting to be more like black people, and so they put into their art. And it's like, I see you, I see what you're trying to do, but you also are you're on a I want to say you're on a fine line, but you're like you're not even on the line anymore.
SPEAKER_09It's like that one. I don't know if you guys saw the I forget what the name of the game is. I really do, but like there's this one new Marvel game that has Storm in it, and we're just talking about Oh, I missed it.
SPEAKER_13Damn, you wanna throw that out there?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Marvel Future Revolution, I believe. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's the one that's that mobile game has been all over my timeline.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah, I see I commercials and everything, and I'm like, Oh, please remove it. Remove. I just I'm looking this up right now.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, we were we were we were the okay, so we were talking about it, like Kaze brought it up, and I was uh like they he he sent me the picture of Storm, and I was and like we were just talking, just chatting. I was like, uh okay, so my my thing about it is because people were talking about her shade, her actual color, and I was like, Well, you know, that is a shade of a black woman, like there is a black woman who has that tone of skin. The issue that I was having, and you know, uh I maybe either uh one of our artists can uh explain, was that the style of her face, the style of her fit, her her actual uh um features were of a white woman. Oh, yes, it's but like it wasn't a color, it was her actual the style of her body was a white woman style, so it's like all they did was yes, there she is, or one of them. They just took a white woman and you know dipped her in chocolate.
SPEAKER_02You know, they've done this before though. Oh, for yeah, they did it with Monica Rambo when they started changing, yeah.
SPEAKER_09It's just like it's weird to me, especially for that one specific. It looks like they started with like a Rihanna bust, right? Yes, and then they just and then it just went off the rails. Yeah, so like I could see the lips a bit, but then I was just like it didn't. I was just like, I was like, where did we go wrong here? I just I don't I don't know where did we go wrong? It's just it was so bad.
SPEAKER_13And they know they're marketing the black people because they put this storm on, if not all, most of the marketing, and they're like, Well, black people love storm, so as long as they see her, they're gonna play the game. And I'm like, I was like, No, ma'am, you're getting the adverse reaction. I mean, some people are playing it anyway, but people ain't happy about the storm friends. So go ahead, Justin.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say it's it's very interesting. So there was an Overwatch character named Ash. My girl.
SPEAKER_09Oh, I saw those. Oh, I saw those concepts. Oh no, yeah, is she okay? Okay, oh, she's fine. She's on my I don't like her on my tower.
SPEAKER_13She knows that she's like center of attention. Why are you talking to these people?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like without me. Um, but there's an overwatch.
SPEAKER_10What are you saying, Jonathan?
SPEAKER_00I I was saying there's um it was an overwatch character. Her name is Ash. Um, and she's like a gunslinger PPS character.
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_00And um, and she's a white woman, and the concept art started where she was a black woman.
SPEAKER_10Is that why I draw so much? That's why I'm drawing her. Let me look this up. I didn't know. No, she's my favorite.
SPEAKER_13She's my well, she was when I was playing Overwatch, but no, she's she's literally my main, and I was like, I love Ash.
SPEAKER_00I love Ashw, but like the thing is like it's it's crazy in it. Apparently, this this isn't uncommon where like characters will start, they'll start dark, they'll start dark, and then as they go through iterations and approvals of characters, they they eventually get lighter and lighter.
SPEAKER_09When when I did what my from my experience um so far with concept is that like like my goal, a lot of people come and they hire me, they do hire me specifically to find like to do like more like ethnic or black art or whatever. But however, in some like in there's very often the rhetoric, um, because like my friend is also been it longer, and so like when it whenever he tried to like make things more black, more ethnic, or whatever, they're like, um, can we make like can you do it lighter or can you like make it like more dipped in chocolate? So, like, you know, just like angle make more angular, small the nose, stuff like that. And they do this all, but they do this all the time, and it's just very it is very frustrating because they do this, they do this with just ethnic, like ethnic like ethnics in general. So, like if they're Asian, they don't want they want someone more um angular the nose to be more like white, yep, that's it. Yep, that's it off my background. And it happens, it happens all the time, and it's just like it's very it is very, very frustrating, frustrating and some and very discouraging.
SPEAKER_04So Ash is like sushi's favorite character. I've been like I've been sending him images of like the curly hair.
SPEAKER_09The only black person, like, yeah, the only black person they have is gonna be, I think, in Overwatch 2 now.
SPEAKER_04So Journal, yeah. So Journal looks amazing, yeah.
SPEAKER_09And they had they they had her in the first what makes me so upset with because I'm like I love to watch a lot. Um, I stopped playing with the whole shbloom, but like, yeah, I just it can't, but like um when Arissa came out, everyone was so hyped. Yeah, we were like finally they thought it'd be like a diva where it's gonna be like ah, sweet, you know, little girl and the mech. And then when we just got Arissa, you know, don't be I love Arissa as far as like gameplay, but I was like, damn, like Effie won't be happy. I'm like, where's Epi? Yeah, I was like, maybe where can we? Can she be like, I don't know, like she's a horse if we could just like hello, like woo doo, you know. Like it was just very disappointing, and I was just like, wow, just kind of teased it in front of our faces, then poo pissed it out. I was like, all right. I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_04So um, but yeah, that's uh actually you that's just I so now that I now that I kind of like reflect back, I think I'm I'm wondering how many boxes they're gonna have sojourn sojourner check off as a character because she's a black, she's black. I almost said she's a black Lord Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_00She's a one black Christmas one.
SPEAKER_04She's black, she's a woman, uh, and she's she has like she has like the prosthetic legs, which look look, which look bomb as shit, and the arm, um, and this railgun. So there's like there's the there's racial um uh gender aspect as well as like the ableism aspect that's kind of like take those three aspects taken on there. I'm wondering how many more she's gonna check off later. Because I like because as much as I loved I love seeing her, I loved her concept. I am now that I've thought about that, I'm now a bit more concerned they're gonna use her as like this like um what avatar for everything.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I'm just wondering if it'll happen too, because like it's just like it's with everything that's happening, it's like it's starting to look less and less likely.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I'm what I haven't I don't play Overwatch like that, so I'm catching up. But dang, this is crazy, right?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah. So I also appreciate that she's Canadian, just saying.
SPEAKER_11Oh yeah, she might be. Her name is Sir Journal.
SPEAKER_04Yes, isn't that Sir Journer? Yeah, oh yeah, it's easy, it's easy for me to say so Journey because I always think Sojourner whenever I hear Sojourn.
SPEAKER_09It feels French Canadian to me.
SPEAKER_04It does.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, very French, yeah. Oh, also, I don't know if any of you guys saw that. Oh no, no, no.
SPEAKER_04I'm sorry, I was saying I was like, they're probably gonna try and make her queer too. We'll see. I was gonna say you know what? I feel that too.
SPEAKER_09I feel that way.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, gonna sneak it in, you know.
SPEAKER_13They probably won't even say it. You'll just have to listen to her interact with certain characters, and you'll you'll be like, Oh, okay, I see.
SPEAKER_00They were like, Wink, well, the fan fictions will start and oh they all they always have a question for you all.
SPEAKER_04So this should be. Wait, hold on.
SPEAKER_09Before you do that, Tolin Quirky had a oh just real quick. I was just like, if anyone saw like the one thing for back ways of like uh for representation that made me cry. Um, is they had one like Caribbean uh animation, it's still not out, but like it's called like the Mighty Pi, like Mighty Pitun. So, like um, if you ever look if you look it up, it will, it's just kind of like an intro and like a trailer. It had me bawling because like my background's Javaican, so I was like, I never see anything like this. So I was just like, it was so beautiful, and I'm like, it still makes me cry. I was like, I don't know if anyone saw that. I was like Mighty.
SPEAKER_11How do you spell it?
SPEAKER_09Uh let me drop this in the chat.
SPEAKER_13Hold up. I feel like I might have seen it.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, drive it in the chat. Is that the one where she was like um punching in the uh punching the punching bag? That's the only way I can explain it.
SPEAKER_09Oh it's more of a it's like a it's like a mech anime, but set in the I have seen it.
SPEAKER_13Oh wow, wait, I have seen this trailer. Yeah, I saw the trailer, you're right. That I mean it's come out.
SPEAKER_00It's been like a long time. Yes, it has. Yes, it has.
SPEAKER_09I've been waiting.
SPEAKER_00I know, yes, I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_09It still has me balling though. Just anytime I see that just like I was like, please come out, please.
SPEAKER_11I'm I'm ready for that black um open road like uh like game to come out. She's like biking through I wanted to. I'm like, yo, what is this? I need to play this.
SPEAKER_13We we have hope. Uh but uh uh the black record, you had a question?
SPEAKER_04Um, yes. Uh so this is specifically an overwatch related question.
SPEAKER_13Hey, wait, what?
SPEAKER_04Overwatch artwork, at least. Um it absolutely is. So this is where we're having a conversation, and so um, and Suchi never liked when I said this, but do you so do you feel like Soldier 76 is a racist?
SPEAKER_07Because I I said artwork. Where are we going?
SPEAKER_04No, because Miskito's even Miskito was like, okay, but like I got she was like, I got the same vibe. Like, he looked like he shoots black people. Like first of all, he shoots everyone.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, yes, the first, the very first time I ever played Overwatch, when that man showed up on the screen, I said, That nigga's a racist. I don't know when he showed when they did the whole the whole video and everything, I was like, character, like I don't know about him.
SPEAKER_13Before they answer the question, and I'm not even going to say everything is all I'm going to say is the reason why you probably feel that way is because he was designed to resemble and represent America. And because of that, your instinctive reaction is that America equals. I'm not gonna say that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was that was gonna be my answer. I was just like, I don't, I don't know like Soldier 76's backstory or anything, but I know like I wouldn't be Not surprised at all that people feel that way about him because I'm like, any like it's just become this, is it's evolved into this where any character that has American colors um on their thing and they got soldier in their name. Come on, like that's why I don't fuck with Cap.
SPEAKER_12I don't fuck with Cap either, but that's not the same thing. I don't like five positive.
SPEAKER_00No, I yeah, I'm just saying, like, on first I love Christ in America.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like um, I too let's keep it a pop. There is nothing Christopher Jamal Evans into this.
SPEAKER_00I got my eye on him, I got my eye on him though. I don't know. I don't know. I'm skeptical about him.
SPEAKER_09It will break my heart. I will say that. It would have break my heart too.
SPEAKER_00He's not out here in the streets saying, like, yeah, I'm with black women. He's not out on that yet. He's he's not denouncing anything, he's not like pushing anybody away, but he isn't like, yeah.
SPEAKER_04He is minding his business right now, so like that's the best thing most white people can do is just shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_10He's in Lizzo's DMs. What are you talking about? That is I saw that.
SPEAKER_04I saw that. I legit do have like an art-related question. Oh, um, I do. So one of the so for all of our artists, so um, I was I saw this TikTok a few weeks ago and they point out something very interesting to me. Um, when we look at a lot of like animated shows and animated films, they pointed out that when it comes to a lot of white people's faces, their eyes are designed to be a lot larger. Um, most of the the size, so to speak, of their facial features goes upward. But when it comes to designing a lot of black faces, when you look to shows like Soul, even when you look at like Steven Universe, or when you look at um uh Craig of the Creek, like a lot of uh the a lot of the weight and the volume in the face is is brought down to focus more on black faces and black bodies. And one of the reasons that they pointed out for that was uh because when it comes to black features, they're more pro the our eyes are not the most prominent part about us. It's the rest of our features. So when you look at a when you look at a lot of uh white characters, um, their eyes will be a lot bigger. Like they'll look like Anna and Elsa. Uh, I think there's only like one Disney short. I forgot what the it was the it was a really nice short about the autistic girl. Um I can't remember her name. I can't remember the name of the the short. And that was like the only one that where where the the design looked similar to how they would design other white characters, but it was a black character. Um, but yeah, I was wondering if you all noticed something similar or any other kind of like deviations from whiteness when it came to designing black characters in that way.
SPEAKER_00I I think it's strange, I think it's funny that white people draw themselves with big eyes when in general they don't have that big of eyes. I think they're trying to accentuate the eye colors that they have, but they don't have big eyes. Their eyes are set deep in their skulls. So I think that's very funny. And I also think it's not our faults that our features get so much attention, like um, like our like our noses and our lips, like that like that, they're depicted the way that they are. That's not like I feel like other people put so much more attention on our features, on those features as opposed to our eyes, which are also very interesting. Like we have very interesting shapes of our eyes, very interesting brow ridges shapes, like all of this is very interesting here, but people cannot seem to let go of our noses and our lips, and they can't figure it out, also, like they're obsessed with it, but also can't like figure it out, which I I just think it's very funny, and also it's like the like our facial shapes. Oh, yeah, that's like they seem so mystified.
SPEAKER_09Like, but like we don't we don't under like how, where, when, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, what do we what do we do? What do we I don't I don't know that said? I thought the way that black people were depicted in Seoul was very beautiful.
SPEAKER_09I I'm gonna admit uh that I did not finish the movie, but it's more of like I guess I it's just it's it's always like I understand like that he like he switches back and stuff like that, but it's just like I read like it. I have a big chip on my shoulder. I'm like, can he just stay black? It's weird. No, I don't know.
SPEAKER_13No, no, we had an episode about that, and I remember our panelists where they they were just as upset. Uh I don't think they have that unupset.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I definitely I definitely have feelings about that movie, just where it's very much like two things can exist at the same time. Yeah, it's where like beautifully drawn though. Yes, like I thought honestly, that movie impacted me a whole lot. Like just the messaging in the movie was really important for me and like directly what I struggle with. Um, but also you know, and I thought it was important for everybody to understand the message of that movie, but it also was it had weird problematic things in there. There's like it just was weird because like it's like uh became like was it like as soon as it became the cat, that's when I checked out.
SPEAKER_09So I don't know what happened after that.
SPEAKER_00I I would recommend watching the movies that's like earlier than I'll try again. Yeah, I think I understand, like it's it's weird. Like Jamie Foxx is a problem, and then Tina Faye voice is voice is is parallel, which she's also just a problem, and then there were just there were just things in the movie where it's like like for a movie that's supposed to be focused on this, like, why are y'all still getting this wrong?
SPEAKER_09Like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it's just weird.
SPEAKER_13I'd like to give it a try again, though. I would like to give it a go again. The black report, what was the name of that? Was it a trope where uh black people either get turned into animals or turn into something else during the movie? Wasn't there like a name of or something like that?
SPEAKER_04I remember saying I don't if there is, I don't know. I don't remember. I uh if I do know it, I don't remember it at this moment, but I can look it up fast.
SPEAKER_03Okay, thank you. I don't know if it's agreed on, it's still uh people just started you know pointing it out. So I mean I think I think different people think it might not have an official name. Okay, I remember saying something, but okay.
SPEAKER_11I don't know. As far as the features thing, I don't I've noticed that a lot too. Like, you know, like seeing the red lips for everything, every black character has red lips. Yep, or um seeing our hands and like just really discoloring like saying um the palm of our hands are like always just really, really outside of uh it just seems too white to me. It's just a weird shift. It's like it's a very distinguished like segregation of the colors in the house. Um then what's the other thing? Um I don't know, as far as the facing, I don't know. I have male pattern RBF, so I can't, you know. I can't really talk much about it. I mean, when I have my face normally, people think I'm pissed off, so I can't like really speak to how other people's faces look.
SPEAKER_04So as far as I see, like the the most consistent thing is called the transformation trope. That's what it was.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, but I I was gonna, you know, going along with um Tommy uh Thickles, uh, I was also gonna talk about uh uh the the hands that um I was watching uh I believe uh the Black Boys sent it, and it was a young lady on TikTok, and she was kind of going over the different artistic tropes um and you know, representation of black people in certain anime and movies, and how she was, you know, happy about the increase. And you know, she was saying these are the you know, black people or black characters that have been in anime, I believe it was just anime, anime and maybe movies, um, over the last couple of years that haven't had some type of negative trope. And she was she mentioned Yasuke, but the fact that Yasuke's hands were still, you know, kind of the lighter variety on the other hand, that kind of split level. And I was like, uh, and it what was interesting is his his if his hands were lighter, I wouldn't have had an issue, but it kind of went back to uh what uh Jocelyn and Tallin Quirky said about it being ashy, like it was more of a gray than it was of a lighter tone, and that's why I was like, ah man, and then his lips were just a little bit of a hue of like uh like a raspberry were his lips, and I was like, and I I love the anime Yasuke. I've said that several times, several times, but you know, there were certain things I was like I would have like on that one that they talk about it.
SPEAKER_11I think I would like that. I think I would like the anime if they didn't put Yasuke on it, like just maybe like a normal black samurai movie because I because the actual story of Yasuke would have been so much cooler to like see.
SPEAKER_13Uh but I put the graceful said that several times, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Actually, that leads to my next question. Uh, that was a great segue about um Yasuke. Because I was actually wondering like, how do you all feel about LaShawn Thomas and what he's doing in the industry currently?
SPEAKER_00Um I've heard a little about it. So was the situation that he had some kind of crowdfunding to get Yasuke on Netflix and had rewards and promised things to people. And then once it got funded and got on Netflix, um, he didn't give the backers anything. Is that oh no?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was referring more specifically to like the kind of the implications behind him, you know, being in the black anime industry, but we can talk about that too.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04You want to talk about it too? We can talk about it too.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I thought she was mean sorry, we okay. So you're just talking about um him as a black man making anime. Is that the idea?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, and just kind of his contributions to the zeitgeist in that way. Like what are your opinions on it so far?
SPEAKER_00I think it's I think it's interesting and cool. Um I don't know. That's as far as I as I feel because I'm like, it's it's cool because you know, anime in general doesn't have too many black people, and the black people that got in there is they always are weird looking, except for a few exceptions. Um, you know, such as like Michiko Hatch Hatch Hatchin and uh like uh Isaac from Castlevania is a great example.
SPEAKER_04I love Isaac.
SPEAKER_09I'm obsessed with that anime. I was so Isaac when when he oh his ending, um that's what I was like, I was like, thank you. Oh thank you. Yeah, you're you you deserve that. Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Listen to him speak.
SPEAKER_00Um I don't want I don't want to derail us too much, but I just like take us off the tracks, girl. It's no, I just I'm I'm I'm so obsessed with that anime, and like I okay.
SPEAKER_07Oh, they're brand. Did you hear their brain? Oh, girl.
SPEAKER_00Everybody look good in that show. Everybody looks so good. No reason why everybody got to be that fine.
SPEAKER_12Everybody like it's uh a comedy.
SPEAKER_04You want to get a look on art? Don't get it, man.
SPEAKER_07Oh man, don't mind if I do.
SPEAKER_11That last fight scene, that last fight scene with the three of them. I lost my shit. I was like, how much budget did y'all have? It's two nine on here.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. Oh my god, somebody might talk about it. All right, so Tiffany Tiffany can't be able to do it.
SPEAKER_12He got it at uh Tiffany. It was a mixed, it was take it was two tables down from Jocelyn, five tables down from uh Tommy Temple.
SPEAKER_00Do you got a card?
SPEAKER_07Everybody's so I felt like a little player because I'm don't nobody was better.
SPEAKER_11She came out of nowhere. She said, Ooh, right.
SPEAKER_00First, just everybody's so fine, everybody's written so well.
SPEAKER_11Oh well. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00I can follow like the the action in the fight scenes is defined. I know what's going on, like you can tell like who's actually winning and losing in the fights. Like it's so good. And I only say all of this to just say this. Um, someone tried to get me to watch Demon Slayer right after finishing. Oh no, Castlevania, and I was having a really hard time because Demon Slayer, I understand why people think it's good, and I do think it's good. I just Demon Slayer does the thing that most all animes do, which is overexplain every single thing, talk you through every single thing, and just waste time. And Castlevania did none of that, and so I was having a real hard time with that.
SPEAKER_04Um go ahead. I'm sorry. No, go, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I was gonna say, and what made it what and I can only assume what made the distinction or made the like the transition that much more like the gap that much more egregious was when Castlevania did sit down and just talk, they talked really like the dialogue was great. Purpose, yeah, so much purpose, and it was engaging, it it forced you into a pathway of thought. Like you were, you were compelled to listen when they were speaking. Like you weren't, you didn't find yourself dealing with like different tropes of like there being a character explaining what's going on. You were you were just as invested in that conversation as the characters were. Yep.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. I mean I thought I was gonna say, like, is a like difference in like um like American, like uh American storytelling versus like Japanese storytelling. And like I didn't really notice that so I don't know if you guys watch Game Grumps on uh YouTube or anything. Sometimes but um yeah, so like they were talking about how the Japanese didn't grow up, they didn't have Shakespearean, they didn't grow up with Shakespearean theater, they had their own theater. So their own storytelling styles are gonna be different than what we are. So like their expressions are like they're like little little Japanese things that you see in like their anime, little quirks that they have that we like we over here in America be like, what does that mean? Or anything like that? To them, it's like it makes perfect sense. It's like, okay, that's what you're trying to tell me. I get that. And then they would come and watch our stuff and they would say the same. It's like to our like storytelling styles. We'd be like, Oh, what does that mean? Why didn't you wait? What is that?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, so go ahead, Chris.
SPEAKER_03It's also really um about the the way the medium works, because uh, because in a manga, the main the writer and the artist is the same person. So you're not out you're not outsourcing to find the best artist, best audio person, and uh, you know, and the best writer, whereas whereas uh Castlevania literally got like one of the best writers in the business. And you know, and you know, and they went and they went and found like one of the best uh studios. So that's uh you know, so that's like another one of those differences where you're not you're not it it is super rare to find great art and a great story in the same person. And that's where like a a lot of well, that's uh that's something like a manga has to uh achieve that uh a lot a lot of other meanings from another other places don't.
SPEAKER_11I was gonna say like go ahead. Again, again, that's what it means.
SPEAKER_07That's what it means.
SPEAKER_11Go, please. No, uh well, I was just gonna say quick, like that like getting back on the Sean thing that you were talking about. Like, I think he's opening doors for black artists and animators, but with the T that I know about with Jocelyn, I'm like, uh you guys might be fucking it up for the rest of us, my guy.
SPEAKER_00I I have a I so I my feelings about uh this situation in and also in conjunction with his contributions is the same problem I have with uh other black people doing like great things in spaces that are important to black people, but also do shitty things. It's very it's I I hate it. It makes me so frustrated when people like we will have people doing, we we will have black people in spaces that are important to us who are performing and being excellent at the thing that they're good at, but then they're really shitty people. And then that's so frustrating and disheartening because it makes you feel like like wow, like it makes you feel like at first, like, oh my gosh, this is something to look up to, like I can get into this and it'll be a good space, like, but then all you get is shitty people doing things that hurt people, like on the like on like behind them on the way up.
SPEAKER_09It's and that's hurtful. It's um it's it really breaks your heart because it's just like there was like another with. Um I don't know if you guys, I guess you guys would already know this, but like during that, oh I think it was last either last summer or the summer before that. Either way, right now he's still the games the games is going through their Me Too moment, right? Um, so everyone's getting their butts kicked, which is like, thank you. And I felt really sad because it's also happening around the time of just which I don't think's happening in the States. And there was this one artist which broke, which is like I've heard now the problem with a lot of these issues that you always hear about certain stuff that happened in the back in the backgrounds, but nobody wants to talk about it because the big issue is what you talked about, especially when you talk about uh men sometimes in that industry, they're like, Well, they do good work, so it's fine.
SPEAKER_04So, but this artist in particular the reputation to supersede the harm that they're doing.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, now this artist worked on some like notable themes and stuff like that, and he was going like he was going about how it is being a black man in the industry and do do do and things like that, and like it was just kind of like I was just like, I was like, Oh, yay, this is nice, but then it cut back to like like now. I just want to make this very clear uh for everyone here. I hate, hate, hate the word muse. I don't like the word, I hate the word. So, like every time I hear the word, something bad is happening.
SPEAKER_13Wait, real quick, real quick, M-U-S-E. Yeah, muse. So now the word before you continue. Um do this the irony, irony. Don't do this! I have to. Um, so uh it just so happens that um shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_04No shampoo bracelets, their family name is Muse.
SPEAKER_09Oh, I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_06I tried to stop him. He wouldn't stop.
SPEAKER_09Oh no, oh no, I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_00This is the artist's name.
SPEAKER_09Um Marco never continue though. You guys you didn't hear about it? He he by the way, he he's off the internet now. Like you can't find this man, no, this nigga nowhere. Like he's it's like like you know what? Fuck it, I guess we're getting into it. So what happened was like so like he was he was talking about like, oh, you know, like it's as it is, and it is, it's hard in industry, but this little was like he was he was kicking people down the way, like he's he's a little so what happened was this man would go to women, be like was choked in my croissant, but like my croissant, like he's like, Oh, like, oh, I want you to be my muse, and you know, law school women are like there's the internet, right? But he would send pictures of himself to be like, see, it's okay, like and stuff like that. And then he would tell these women that if you talked or whatever, he would blacklist in the industry. He did not have that kind of power, but he said that he would, and a lot of I knew funny enough, I had a friend who was also targeted by him. But the problem is that the reason why no one says because you always think that you're the only one. So, like, and there were a lot of women, like there was a basically how this came up, is there was another black girl who came made a page called I was harassed by Marco Neller, and it blew up. And so he first, when he made a first apology, which is like, um, which by the way, I my biggest also another pet peeve. If you don't accept apologies that aren't for you, a bunch of these men coming to his defense, like, oh man, you made a mistake, it's okay. Because he because he was trying to twist it around saying it was an angry ex-girlfriend, right? It wasn't there was more. There was the comments were like book, book, book, book, book, just listing it out, just like I was one, I was one, was I was one. People are like, Oh, who gonna stay mad at him forever? It was just a whole big like the game industry is very toxic. I'm very happy to be remote, very happy, very happy to be remote. Same freelance all the way. Yep, I'm like, I'm I have never worked in-house. I've only been like from what I have seen so far, it's not been great.
SPEAKER_00Like, I always wanted to, but now I don't.
SPEAKER_09Right, thank you. I'm like, I want I want an in-house job at home. That makes sense. Yes, I was like, it's very possible, y'all. I could stay, listen, let me stay home. Thank you. Um, but yeah, it was like it was he came out, then there was another guy, I forget his name. He was, I think, another Marco, another thing came out about him, but it wasn't as bad. So he kind of slipped through, so he's fine. But I have not seen Marco Neller since have not seen this man online. He just disappeared, nuked it, and gone. I think his Twitter's private, but like. Yeah, he did the stuff like uh what do you call it again? Mortal Kombat and stuff. I think that was the one thing I remember too.
SPEAKER_13Wait a minute, what's his name?
SPEAKER_09Marco Neller. M-E-L-O-R. He's not based out of Chicago, is he?
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_09Yes. I have no idea. I'm not I'm like I'm really bad with states, I'm sorry. Oh snap. It was the big thing of the summer. It was just like it hurt because there was a one point where it's just like a trio of black men, like who was really prominent, just got boom, boom, done one time. You always get those moments where it's like, damn it, he's black. You're like, no. It was like we were in the world. Who else was the most number? Um, there was another Marco. He draws kind of like uh I forget his name and his last name, but he's like he draws like kind of like the cartoony, very sexy, like not sexy, but like sex art and whatever. Okay, he got nicked too, but not as hard. And for a while, all he did was just mute the comments. Wow, okay. He's back now, but yeah.
SPEAKER_11I know who you're talking about. It was Marcus.
SPEAKER_09Oh, Marcus, sorry, that was Marco too. The M's, the M's.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I saw that. I was like, bruh, I can't follow you no more, man.
SPEAKER_09It was Marcus. Marcus and Marco Marco and Marcus at the same time.
SPEAKER_00They were like, What's Marcus' last name?
SPEAKER_09I have no idea. Uh let me look it up. He has a good following too, so let me still around.
SPEAKER_11It's a really big following.
SPEAKER_09Just like excuse me. It's just like that one man, they just hope it blows over. And so yeah.
SPEAKER_13Ridiculousness.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. I personally like I'm like, I can't, um like I won't name the guy because I'm just kind of like, I'm like, if ever if something happens to this man, then yes, but I just don't want like things on me. But there's this one guy who was like who that who's who got me with the muse thing and it made me so sad. That's so weird, though. I really liked him too, but I was just like, um, like I was like, it's weird and gross.
SPEAKER_00It's weird and gross though, because it don't make no sense. Because like yeah, I'm also half his age, so I'm like, it don't make no sense. We got the internet, it's Pinterest. You're talking about muse.
SPEAKER_06Pinterest is woohoo.
SPEAKER_00Like, oh, it's talking about museum.
SPEAKER_09This man tried to ask me out too, and he's trying to be like, uh, he's I was like, I don't go out with friends. He's like, but we could, and I'm like, no, but we won't. But like, I'm I'm mad because I can't talk to because he's you're in a position of power, so it makes me very irritated. Like, I can't cuss you out because I'm also obviously like at that at that point in time, I wasn't working yet. I'm still uh, I guess, in the trainee phase, if you will. But so like I'm like, Oh, well, I don't want to rock the boat, you know, because like they have pull or whatever. Now I don't really care.
SPEAKER_04But like as you should, but not okay.
SPEAKER_09Well, like it's just it's irritating because it's not this is not the only it's not it's irritations, like there the game industry still has a problem with their like, well, if you can do the job, that's why they get hired, you know. Like, and I'm like, Are you implying that only like guys can do the job?
SPEAKER_11You know, so like I don't know, that kind of makes me sad because I want to I want to do that, I want to do the concept part like you guys are still honestly, but still my thing is that still do it.
SPEAKER_09Like it's like we have the power to be the change, like be the change you want to see, like like and also honestly with working from home, it eliminates some of the the sorry, the like freaking uh what do you call it again? Politics, politics as well, but also just going to those events. I hate going to those events because you're in a really as a woman, you're in a fine balance between I want to mingle, but I don't want the thing I'm blurning, so I'm trying to like weird, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's a weird balance because then and it's also uncomfortable because like you don't know anybody and you have to network and you have to meet people on your own by yourself as like a black woman in this white male-dominated industry, and it's like, uh you have to deal with like problems just as like just as a woman, period.
SPEAKER_09Like, yeah, like I don't know if you guys know about this. There was a black game pros event um posted by Ubisoft um that happened before the pandemic happened. I got to go. Um now the sad part is the guy who ran that also a problem. I'm like, what's that? Like he also got yep, he got nicked too. I'm like, god damn. I'm like so sad. And then there was just like just this, it's just I'm just like, can I just so I'm like, can I have anything?
SPEAKER_00Like it's just it's just frustrating. It's frustrating. It's just like yo, I I'm also learning like over the past, like last year, maybe the a little bit the year before and this year, I'm realizing just how many men are shitty. Like it hurts. And it's and also not just that they're shitty, how many of these men hate women? Like it's not like like it's not even just like you know, they're just shitty from like they specifically hate women.
SPEAKER_09There it's bitter, man. It's very, it's very bitter.
SPEAKER_00Just like it's very upsetting because it's like, yo, we're like extra not safe.
SPEAKER_09And so it's it's it's like it's like I remember just looking, I remember that same artist who was like, Do you want to be my muse? Um, I asked him, I was like, is there any other blog?
SPEAKER_04That was a wonderful Kermit, like Kermit? Like I was following Kermit. I was really nervous. No, I had the same thought.
SPEAKER_09I was like, what?
SPEAKER_12Oh, right.
SPEAKER_07Is it easy being a muse?
SPEAKER_09I just didn't know.
SPEAKER_04I can know the oh my god.
SPEAKER_09Oh the imagery. It doesn't help that I'm wearing green today either. It's like, oh no, no. Um, like I asked him, is there any other black woman? Like, do I do I know any like of cons part that like because I want to connect with people of that look like me so I can know what it's like. I had to find a madam stuff. He's like, I don't know. And I'm like, he followed the same person I found. I was like, you couldn't, you know, stop set.
SPEAKER_00It's uh I know two, I know two who seem decent. Yeah, I can I can send you their way.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I'm just at this point, I'm like just trying I'm just kind of cutting. I'm like, I just is anyone just like wail, you know. I remember my friend just like anybody, please, just just thank you. Please come my way. Come my way. At this point, you need to like connect. It's just like it's a very question because not even just like they hate women, there's also the irritation I have where they don't say anything, where it's just kind of like they're like, Oh, it's okay, it's whatever. They just watch this shit happen to you, and it's very like it's just like, could you not? Yep, I could use some assistance, like you know, and these are the people who call who say you're a friend. Like, there's some people like I'm like they've changed some of them changed now, but they would be like they didn't see it happen, they don't like they don't see, they don't believe. Like, it's just like I'm like, take my word for it.
SPEAKER_00And also, people definitely see they see, yeah.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it's just like I remember my friend worked in a studio uh here in Quebec. Um, and then like he sorry, um, they were saying, like, oh, before they had one woman work at this point, they were close or whatever, because they were like, because they didn't, they're like they were they were chiller than the rest of them because as soon as they came in, just guys after guys coming up, like two old so do you want to date or whatever and stuff like that. And then the person who was like a head or whatever was um harassing her, she ended up leaving, and then they got trouble with HR, and they're they're all trying to keep them in hush hush, so they're like so they wouldn't so nothing would happen. It's just like I'm like, this poor work, yeah. She's what she's trying to do her job, just girl, do her job get out.
SPEAKER_11Let her work, man.
SPEAKER_04Okay, also I'm literally trying to do my job.
SPEAKER_11Like, I just want to um not to go off topic again, but uh let's go.
SPEAKER_13So it's it's it's we've been we've been driving the digits this time. So just keep on going.
SPEAKER_11Just to go off the thing we were going with earlier. Um, so it's Quebec and uh Quebec.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you do, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_09See, you're not wrong because like so I'm from Toronto, people and they don't like us very much here, so like that's I'm trying my best to learn French while I'm here because I work from home, so I don't have to do a damn thing, but I'm trying to learn because of my friends here, like they speak, and I was like, I want I want to know what everyone's talking about, but it's is it's it's it's Quebec or whatever, it's like kibbic. Okay, no, it's quasi.
SPEAKER_11I just I mean, I just have to make sure I'm saying it right. Apparently, I haven't saying a bow you wrong the whole time. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00Every time you say it like that sends me in outer space. It really does. I'm echoing every time you say it like that.
SPEAKER_09It's all right, man. I feel you. Like I'm like both my parents are Jamaican, and for some reason, I for I it's so hard for me to say like like like uh I say condensed milk, but it's condensed. But like my parents just yeah, it's hard. I'm trying to break it out. I'm trying to say condensed milk.
SPEAKER_11Hold on to the social media. Hey, I'm from the South, so yeah, I say all kinds of things weird. So I say like I say cauliflower, I say stone. Is it not?
SPEAKER_09Is it not cauliflower? You can say like cauliflower.
SPEAKER_13I don't say cauliflower. I don't say collie, collar. What's because they are also from the south, so I am from I am from the south.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_09Wait, so is it collie or cola?
SPEAKER_00I was either acceptable. Okay, oh no, really. People don't get his up in arms about that one.
SPEAKER_12They don't or is you saying pecans versus pecans? We're not doing that. That's not what are we doing that right now? It's pecans.
SPEAKER_09It's pecans? Is it pecans?
SPEAKER_04Uh oh. I put a little cut, a little a little, I forgot the the linguistic term for it, but it's not that that's the cuddle movement between syllables.
SPEAKER_03Let's not forget that English is three midgets standing in a trench coat. That very language, like it's not that serious.
SPEAKER_09It's not it's just it's it's interesting to me too, because it's like honestly, if you like black Canadians versus Black Americans and the words, the ways of like slang and like lingo is just like it's like night and day. I think they had that one time on SNL where like Drake came on.
SPEAKER_04I knew that's the only black Canadian we know of.
SPEAKER_09Like, but it's but it's the devil, it's like a weird, I don't know how to describe it. It's like it's like it's like Canadian. I don't want to make it through.
SPEAKER_13Yes, yes. I'll go down in the annals of our podcast.
SPEAKER_04Okay, Coley.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, like kiddies, co-op Jamaican. It's so bad.
SPEAKER_13I so sorry, uh, no problem. So just to I guess bring us back to the track, uh, I did want to ask one final question, um, which is for black artists. Uh, we talked extra, we talked about a lot of stuff today uh about you know representation. You talked about uh being pissed about how people draw us, being happy about how we can draw ourselves, uh, knowing about you know, needing us in the room. But the problem is people feel like we don't need to be in the room until they need us in the room, and then they try not to pay us, so then we end up just standing there trying to do our jobs, and then people try to sexually harass people. Uh, there's just a whole bunch of things we've talked about today. So I I I love the entire uh the the patheon of everything. Um, but going into my question, um what do you feel? And this is for everyone, of course. What do you feel is essential for black art to move into the next section or move into the next area? Because we talk about representation, we talked about there being you know individuals on top who prevent us from either getting up, or when we get there, they put a cap on us, or when we get there, we have to become the token. Um, what is next or what is necessary? Uh I've always thought, you know, uh, oh hey, if I start my own, you know, design or anime company or or art company, then you know, I can hire black people and we can all move forward. But then if you think about you know just being in America or being anywhere, people who are in those higher places of power who already have it will try to muffle and stifle us and prevent us from growing any larger. So in your innate, and I always love saying knee-jerk reaction, but in your thought process, if you've thought about it before, what do you feel is necessary for black art to take the next step? Whether it's further into anime, whether it's further into video games, whether it's further into animation and movies, if it's further into you know being the focal point of art in the world, uh, what do you think is necessary? What do you think is uh what is needed for it to take the next step? And um I'll go ahead and pick people this time. I think I want to start with Miss Skittles. Oh, wait, what?
SPEAKER_09Oh no, I said A.
SPEAKER_13You want to go first? Uh I'm just eating my chips. I don't know if y'all have these. Uh I will start with Miss Skittles.
SPEAKER_05So I'm going to say, um I'm going to say education, honestly. Um when so I went to an HBCU, uh, went to Virginia State University, and the the curriculum there was very dry, was very uh standard cookie cutter. If you're gonna be an artist across the board type curriculum, like we learned every type of art, um, regardless of what you were trying to be. Um you learned every type of art, which is which is fine, but um I was I was on a panel uh it was it was like I want to say it was in 2020, maybe maybe earlier this year, either way, um it was on a panel for HBC UConn and they're talking about how Bowie State um is creating this cre cre curriculum that is more Afrocentric, like like they they study like you know hip hop and and afro futurism and and things like that. And I think it's important to get to get people, young black artists, um in a space where they feel like it's okay to you know want to be an artist, period. Like, you know, like um a lot of a lot of us grow up and and our parents or whoever thinks, you know, oh art is you know, it's not a job, it's not something that you can do full time and make money and and things like that. And I think it's important to get young black artists um feeling like they can be uh, you know, they can design the next video game, they can um create uh a stable living environment from being an artist, um whether that be um in video games or painting or um character design or costume design, like I feel like we need to educate them at a at a younger age to say, hey, you can do this. Um this is something that needs to be out there, like there's an industry for this, and you can be a part of that, and you don't have to figure that out at you know, when when you're already in college and you and or you're already an adult, you done you done got a degree that you don't care nothing about, and now you done discovered this whole passion. Uh well not really discovered, but you've had a passion for this thing at a young age, but because you know, there's not there wasn't a space for you, or you didn't feel like you know, somebody who looked like you could teach you how to be in that space and as an adult, you know, now now you're an adult and you're trying to play catch up. So um I think education honestly I think it it honestly starts there. And I feel like unfortunately, a lot of um our spaces, HBCUs, they don't their curriculum is still whitewashed. They're calling themselves black colleges, but they're still teaching stuff that you can learn at any white university. So yeah.
SPEAKER_07Okay. Uh clue bracelets.
SPEAKER_02Um honestly, I would say it would have to be more communities where um actually black art comes together and it's found. A lot of times I think it's just the advertising of it all. Like word of mouth spreads a lot for us, and that's always been black community as a whole. Like, word of mouth is just how things spread. But I think if we can get more advertising out there or see more of our art in particular areas, like um perfect example is uh DDNR has always been a big help to the artist community. And then you can find it if you know how to look or who you're looking for in terms of black art. But it's not like I think as of recently, you know, with everything going on, everybody started doing more of this, you know.
SPEAKER_00Online merchandise.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, on well, online, not online merchandise purchasing, but um how you like how you go into Netflix, at one point you go to Netflix and you see Afrocentric movies, or like how you go with the other things that you would see, like oh, afro this or afro that. Oh, oh, representative.
SPEAKER_04I learned to interrupt, I learned this week there's like a YouTube black. I'm like, what? Exactly.
SPEAKER_02So you start to see that more. And um I think that could be a little bit more helpful. Um, not just that, but also uh the inclusion of a lot of times you don't know about certain black artists unless they get with the right white ones. So um, I think if like you could like see just more of our own prepping up others and just more, you know, more advertising towards our art, then it would be a little, we could make the extra step, especially in like video gaming, as we were talking about earlier, because a lot of times the video gaming industry will almost always in terms of like how civil liberties and stuff works, it just seems like it'll always be a generation behind the rest of the world because of what it's mostly ran by. So I think if um that could actually be stepped into a little bit more, it'll be a little better. Yeah, very well.
SPEAKER_13Okay, um, tall and quirky. Sorry.
SPEAKER_09It's like um also to piggyback, um, I'm sorry, I was uh sorry not Jocelyn. Wait, yes, Jocelyn, sorry. Um education is Miss Skittles.
SPEAKER_08Miss Skittles, ah, sorry.
SPEAKER_09Sorry, I'm still like trying to come back to there, but sorry, all right. But anyway, um education is definitely important. Um, I find that's the catalyst, but also an environment that is nurturing and is um patient and fair, which is hard, I feel like, with post-secondary. But um I feel like another another part is to have um like um, I feel like for art mentorships are really important. So, like for that part of education, I think is the most important is to find someone who is like you working in this field to be able to teach you because a lot of because I'm like a lot of it is to like is to be the access to that education to know exec to like and much like you said, like I had the broad stroke for the art stuff. So I took visual arts um for school and it was not agreed. And I picked up digital on myself by myself, but there wasn't really much other stuff. It was it was that or graphic design, you know, kind of thing. It's like it's that or that. And I'm like, I didn't really like I'm still horrible at lettering um and things like that. Not my thing. Um, but I didn't know that even I don't even know why. I didn't think game art was a cat, um, an option. It just never clicked to me. So to have those options to have those mentorships is really important, and to like just be able to have someone who looks like you to be able to teach you the things you need to know what like from their experiences and stuff like that. Um because it's hard. I went to like because the school I went to, I never finished. I I could I'm like part way because I left. Um I like I kind of I got myself back formation because I dropped a class I should not have dropped, because the teacher was just like, she's like we like we had like that mid-year or whatever like evaluation, and she just like I don't really think this is for you. And so I took that to heart and I just kind of like I threw all my stuff away and I was just like and I just was like I just was kind of like ever since. Um so it took me a while. I don't like her. Um like I really hope she steps on a Lego. I really do. You know, remember those sometimes it's in some cases those who don't do teach. So she is an example of that. Yes, um, but she is some cases, yeah. Not all the time, but her specific, but her specifically more so. Her specifically, I don't like her. I still have a chip on my shoulder about that. That was really rude. I'm still mad, still mad about it, but like chill with the sip. She was like, she was not, she's like, you know. Um in my also in my school, I only really had. One black educator in that time, and it was a trip. Like, um, because talking to her really kind of re reinvigated my love for it because she was more like kind of a concept, like contemporary artist. And then, like, when she taught the class, she was very she was very straight up. She was um uh her background was like uh Nigerian, but she grew up in England, and then she was explaining just the things the first time you get into her class of what she will not put up with. She's like her hair was natural and dyed, and she was just like, if you don't like my hair, if you don't like my accent, you can go, you know, and one time somebody left. So like, so it's just like because some people they were like, we can't understand her. She could understand her just fine. It was just it was just very odd. And then I remember she pushed kids um, because she knew we were capable of. Like, I didn't do very well in her class, the grade was, but I loved her, right? Because I'm like, 'cause she was honest with me um when I wasn't putting on putting in my L. And she was, there was one student who had her in another class that she was very upset, that she was very upset with her and just depicted her on these like beer bottles, but it was like on a white woman, but she put her face on it. It was very weird. And she, but all she did was just like, so what, so what's the reason behind it? She couldn't answer. She goes, she was kind of like, ah, um, but it's like, if you're going to do this, at least come, at least, at least you'll come with something, right? She had she had a classical graphic design where she's like a like a poor study like she ran out crying because no one understood why it is bad putting the heads of black people on monkeys. Like it was very, it was very weird. And she's like, I have to explain to a bunch of students that like that she wasn't being sensitive. Like it was very just my schools, it's like it's been like it's a hundred years it's been around and it's still very hundred years white. It's like is how I like to describe it. It's been uh there's been a lot of issues um as far as that. So I'm having an education that's welcoming and warm, and having that is so important. So it's just like to nail that in to have people of color feel like they're supported. And that also goes for the workplace, right? I want very much to see black people at gains, but I don't want black people to be tossed in an environment where they do not feel safe, where they don't feel welcome. You need to have those like step like proper measures in place where they can feel safe and have someone to talk to about issues when they do arise, because they will. So yeah, that's why issues a lot at that moment.
SPEAKER_03Um I'm gonna say uh kind of a two-pronged approach, like not, you know, obviously agreeing with most people who went before me, but uh uh I'm I'm gonna say that uh people need to uh you know really just realize the power of the black dollar and the black demographic. And that's uh that's us and everybody else. Like a lot of times it's kind of like um it's it's hard to realize that there's a you know, that there's a collective we because we feel so like divided all the time. So like, you know, if there's no if there if there's no uh proverbial pot to put the money in, it doesn't, you know, seem like there's any any way to really come together that way. But you know, if if we like really came through and was like, hey, we're gonna make, we're gonna make this work, we're gonna push this through, we're gonna make this happen, we're gonna make people see it. And um, you know, and and of course, like on the on the other end, it's like, you know, it's a tired example right now, but you know, it's a good one. It's like, is the we need, you know, we need like the the you know, like the Black Panthers, you know, to get the all, you know, all billion dollar project, all you know, all black, all the way, like it's it's kind of like a lot a lot of people like to, you know, make the excuse, like the only color I see is green. And I'm like, okay, we got that too.
SPEAKER_09That's a shade. I hate that word someone. They're like, I don't see color, it's gonna be black, red, green. I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so so yeah, so we we we we make green as well. So that's not uh, so that's not that's no longer an excuse. So uh so really just uh just doing what we can to uh you know really like you know support each other, push, you know, push ourselves as a demographic, as a niche, and uh yeah, proving that that is viable and uh helping it grow. Okay.
SPEAKER_10Ms. Jocelyn Short.
SPEAKER_00Um, so a couple things, several things. One, I definitely agree about education. Um it's like what you guys have talked about about in regards to education so far is exactly why I chose the school that I went to. I I said before I went to the Academy of Art uh University, different from the Art Institute, because it it was an art school. Like that was an art school that focused specifically on something I had direct interest in because I knew that most state colleges, including HBCUs, just have very generalized art programs that are mainly focused on fine arts and like a very like one specific way of doing art that is only applicable in one capacity. Um and I feel like, and I know and just in regards to this, like the area of like uh the DMV, fine arts is like um pushed here, but no other kind of art is pushed here. Like there's this is not a hub for entertain, like entertainment art or um, you know, even graphic design. This is not a place for that. This is specifically about fine arts, just here in this area. Um, but I definitely agree that most institutions have a hard time recognizing art in any other capacity, which is why mostly state colleges and HBCUs have the art programs that they have. Like a lot of the program is like a paint by numbers kind of thing. Um, and like they don't teach you art fundamentals in a way that is applicable, where you could take your fundamentals to any kind of medium, which is a problem. Like I appreciated my education a whole lot because I feel like the fundamentals that I received, I can transfer them over to like multiple art mediums that that it was useful, that that information serves me very well. It's evergreen. And I feel like a lot of the education you can receive in state colleges and HBCUs is not like that. And that's a problem for how much money you're paying. So there's this huge paywall for art information that you don't even understand what you're getting because people don't understand like how functional art is, like the like, you know, like aside from just like fine art and putting it in galleries and just making money that way, like the functional aspects of art, which is uh entertainment design, pre-production, um, like all of the intricacies, all the different job titles that are involved in like making a film or a game or graphic design, just like you know, besides just making little like making a logo is not a small thing. Like that's a thing people get paid thousands and thousands of dollars to do because it's very important for a company to like for how they're branded recognized, it's so important. So I definitely agree about um just that this the space in education needs to be changed. I definitely feel like it is important for state colleges. They're gonna have an art program, it needs to be a more diverse program because state colleges are cheaper, HBCUs are cheaper than private institutions that focus on art and it's just this huge paywall. Um, but that's one thing. So that's art education. My second thing that I feel like would help black artists and the just the uh community and all that um is uh to keep your integrity intact. Um keep your integrity as you rise, uh as you move up, as you progress, as you become more successful, because it's inevitable if you're in here, you're in it to be successful in what you're doing. That said, it's important to maintain your integrity and to be self-aware, to hold yourself accountable, like make sure that like I guess that's what I mean when I say like integrity is to hold yourself accountable to bad behavior patterns that you might have, other people that you're seeing around you, you know, like to make sure that the space that you're creating around you as you rise and as you move is full of integrity, you know, so that it becomes a place of safety. Um that's that's a thing that's important to me is that you know, I don't want people to like if I'm moving anywhere, if I'm if if I'm going anywhere, I don't want people to feel bad about it if they're with me or next to me or in the same space as me. You know, I don't want people to feel bad about me being there because I'm a shitty person, you know, and I don't want to feel bad being next to somebody who's a shitty person because I love the field, because I love the job, you know. Um and the the last thing I'll say is um I think it's important to uh be critical of your own work in a healthy way, to make sure that you know you're striving towards something that you know is good. And I'm not saying that it's meant to be good all the time, you know, everybody like you're just your only responsibility is to the work and just making sure that you're doing the work. So it's not always going to be great all the time, but just that you are keeping in mind what you're aiming for, so that there's a commitment to a level of act of excellence, you know, and you know, and I'm not saying it has to be the best ever, but just that you continue to strive for that and that you hold yourself to critic uh criticism, like healthy criticisms of artwork, because that's the one of the most important things for growth as an artist is that you are critical, you know, like and that you can take criticism. Um, and I'm not again, I'm not talking about shitty criticism where you know you're equating your worth as a person to an artist, you know, to to what your art looks like, nothing like that. I just mean like that. Um just you're struggling, you're you're striving to improve uh and and improve what you're doing. Yeah. That's my answer.
SPEAKER_13Nuggets. People inspired off that one. That was beautiful. Thank you. Yes. So uh the black McCoy.
SPEAKER_04So this was it was this was oddly a very emotional question for me. Um, but I'm going to kind of echo the sentiments of education. And um I also want to shout out Tommy Thickles um and his and his uh personal story with art, because I guess the the thing that I want to go behind in in that same view, like vein of education, but kind of complimentary to it is support. Um I was one of those kids who was really good at a lot of things. And it was cute when I was younger, and it was like, oh yeah, drawing up all the paper, oh, you know, all the toys and putting together in different ways and doing doing all these like different creative things. But by the time it got to a certain point in like I guess my adolescence, it was time to start, you know, thinking about things that was more practical. Like, right, like be like I originally uh when I went to school, it was to be a veterinarian, but you know, I ended up I wound up in philosophy, which is, I guess, kind of a hybridization of my talents. But nonetheless, um, being able to support Black youth outside of art being a hobby and recognizing it as a legitimate form of expression, a legitimate way to make money and to be successful and to live and to thrive in this world is extremely important because so many Black children have their artistic dreams snuffed out by, no offense to STEM, but by um this kind of agenda to make sure everyone is in STEM in some way, shape, or form. And they lose that support from their, from, you know, their family members, from they lose it from some of the mentors, they lose it from you know, people in their community who think that they need a quote unquote more practical way to make a living in society and not recognizing their and not fostering their ability to create in the way that it deserves. Um, and I think that making sure that we as a community continue to provide those spaces, to provide more affirming conversations, to provide um people who mentor, um, people who are experienced when it comes to developing um artistic and creative passion is extremely important because we we part of the reason part of the reason I think we don't have as many black artists as we could have is because we we we we stifle them far too early on in their life to give them the opportunity to be great in the way that they were meant to be in some way, shape, or form. And I don't say meant to be in like this kind of like you know, metaphysical cosmic way, but I say meant to be so they developed this when they were younger, and they you you noticed the passion for it, but at a certain point that passion stopped mattering because it stopped being cute, it stopped being um charming, it started to become a more of a liability rather than um something that was actually beneficial for this child.
SPEAKER_13Lord energy. But to wrap it all up, uh Mr. Uh Thomas Michael Fickles.
SPEAKER_11Uh I should probably talk about my name at some point. Um yeah, exactly a lot of what um Black McCoy just said. Also, is that related to Hank McCoy? Just jump in. Yes, it is. All right, cool, cool. My uh my Instagram name is Kurt Swagner. Ah a lot of people have no idea what I'm talking about, and I'm like it's okay, but we're here. I'm glad we're in a in a in a comfortable group that understands anyway. Uh so I guess for me, like for that, it's also that like we need to have more support for that for art. If we want us to grow, we need to have more support for that. And I don't mean like um you know, balls to the wall, like if I'm doing this, you need to be all in for me, like you know, ride or die type stuff, but I'm saying like give a little bit, you know. Um, because I mean that just that little bit could be the difference between somebody following their dream and then not um the main thing is people saying you you want to do art or you know, anything entertainment related. Um you're not gonna make any money from that. But I'm like, in my view, if if it's your passion, if it's something that you enjoy doing, if it's something that you know you're gonna foster and grow, then you're gonna make money from it at some point. Yeah, it's gonna happen because you enjoy doing it. Um, so I would say that would help abundantly with the art black art community, is just not stifling people from following what they want to do in their life. Um, on top of that, it's things like this like you know, little group chats, other black artists getting together. Um the only other thing I would say to that is not stifling other personalities or other ideas. So, like um anytime, all right. I'll give an example. I was in a black engineers group when I was in school, um, and I just felt out of place there because they felt like I didn't belong there, and I don't know why they they just thought I wasn't the typical black person in the group. Wow. Um I had a counselor who called me out. He was like, he was like, hey, come to my office, we can talk about career stuff and all that. And um his first question, like he didn't ask who I was or anything. His first thing was, so what are you? It wasn't who are you? It wasn't it wasn't who are you, it wasn't like how did you end up here? It was the first question was what are you?
SPEAKER_00Like, and I'm like, I had that question in college.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like I so I want to take a moment to the collective, like black reaction we all had. Yeah, we're like it's so frustrating.
SPEAKER_00Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it's like it's the most fucked up thing, and it really fucks up your brain to hear it when you already have your own mental thoughts. It's like I don't really fit in with anybody else. So, like for to hear that from like a higher up person, and this guy was black too, it wasn't a white person. Wow, um kind of question was that then, right? I don't, I don't, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01What are you expressing? I feel like what are the expression? It's even weirder now.
SPEAKER_13Is it a therapeutic session for uh pimples? Let's let's let's keep going.
SPEAKER_11I've I've already had my therapeutic session for this, but we could talk about it, we could get into it. But um I don't know, I guess he wasn't expecting me to be the typical black engineer or black person that he's seen in school. I was quiet, I was to myself, I I drew and I did martial arts outside. I was literally in the park doing martial arts with some of my friends. Like I was the weird kid, I guess. But uh that I already knew I didn't really fit in, but for somebody like that to say that, it like really fucked me up mentally. I was just like, oh shit. So that's actually how people feel. I wasn't sure if people felt like that, but I kind of confirmed it. So I guess what I'm trying to say is like if we have like a close-knit group like this, like these talks are great. Um, but if we just make sure you keep it'd be great if we had multiple groups like that and everybody was open-minded. So you have people who think you can have you know, gay people, trans people, you need to have um all different kinds of black views and point points to like just bounce stuff off. That's the only way you can really grow is to like have multiple points of view and bounce off of stuff. I missed that. What was that to me?
SPEAKER_05I said a spectrum.
SPEAKER_04And that's why we have the name people, yeah.
SPEAKER_11A full spectra, it came full circle, cut timeout. Let's go.
SPEAKER_12Um that was the perfect closeout.
SPEAKER_11Uh as far as the oh, the name thing. Uh my name is Michael Johnson, the most basic name anywhere. Anytime you go anywhere, it says my hey, what's your name? Oh, Michael Johnson, and I'll be like, okay, what's your mental initial? Okay, what's your phone number? Okay, what's your blood type? Um, so like like my name doesn't really my name doesn't really stick out. So like anytime I pick something, whether it's a video game or like my artist name is uh pariah Kong. So pariah means like social outcast. Um that just speaks to me as a person. Um Kong, because my favorite um animal is a gorilla. So that's a parkour move. A Kong is a parkour move. So like it mix all it all mixed together. Yeah. Um Tommy Tickles was just me making puns. I was just I was going through puns like crazy. I was like, what do I what do I be? I want to be something where people see it and they laugh, and then I can shoot them.
SPEAKER_04And they feel great about being shot. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, yeah. This cat is this is the second cat. Um oh, okay. My monster hunter name is uh Bob Sauce. So Bob Ross. Um, he has an afro and everything. Um, my the characters' names, like the little cat I have is called Ogun. Oh so I mean that's just me. Me having a basic name makes me pick not so basic names when I go to other things.
SPEAKER_10I I I definitely there's a synergy there.
SPEAKER_13Thank you, thank you, thank you for all of the artists who are on today, including our own panel based artists. Yes, panel based artists. Um, thank you for all being on today. Uh, of course, we have to close out. Uh give each and every one of you the opportunity to tell people how you can be reached, uh, starting with. Ms. Skittles.
SPEAKER_05Uh you guys can reach me on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok under Ms. Skittles T R underscore cosplay.
SPEAKER_03Barrett 3B on Instagram. The Black McCoy.
SPEAKER_04You can find me at the Black McCoy on Instagram and the Black McCoy cosplay on Facebook.
SPEAKER_13Michael Johnson, aka Thomas Michael.
SPEAKER_11Too many names, too many names. My main Instagram channel where I post like martial arts and art and the video edits that I do is under Kurt Swagner underscore 90. My art page is Pariah Kong. It's Jocelyn Short.
SPEAKER_00It's just Jocelyn Short for pretty much everything. Instagram is at underscore Jocelyn Short. And I have uh Instagram for my uh Bears world that I'm building, which is uh I think at underscore bearers.
SPEAKER_13Um you'll see that on our social media today.
SPEAKER_00My website is just jocelenshort.com. Um and yeah, just Jocelyn Short for pretty much everything.
SPEAKER_13From Jocelyn the Short to tall and quirky.
SPEAKER_04See what you did there. I'm glad there's not I'm glad I'm not the only snorter on this podcast.
SPEAKER_09I'm like, I try to I try I try to be like just like don't don't do it, don't do it. But just like try not to let it fly.
SPEAKER_04Every time I snore it, Sushi's like, oh, here we go.
SPEAKER_13I'm like no, I say here we go because the first one happens, and then there's ten consecutive ones after that.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy. Not my fault. It's crazy. If I'm laughing super hard, my snorts are long.
SPEAKER_09Oh yeah, like brawl scary.
SPEAKER_00Let them think, why?
SPEAKER_09Oh yeah. The worst one is just like the side, like I can't catch my breath, kind of laugh, or I'm just like Bismarcky. Right. That was actually really good. That or you run one of the two, just like gone. But sorry. Um, yeah, tall and quirky. You can find me at tall, the letter N and Quirky for just about everything. I'm on TikTok, uh, Twitter, Instagram. I have a Facebook, I just don't use uh um and twitch. So if you want to see me stream my art, that's Thursday. No, my TV Wednesdays to Fridays Eastern time for tuning in. Phenomenal.
SPEAKER_04Shampoo bracelets paging, shampoo bracelets.
SPEAKER_02So here's the thing a lot has gone down at the time that uh I've been void inside here. So um kids. You had to clean up poop. Kids. Um, no, no, something else. Um yeah, so okay, so uh um you can find me mostly on um I'm pretty much a slave to my children, or you can find me at shampoo. You can also find me at shammy b87 um on Twitter. You can find me at Shampoo Racist on Instagram, and um yeah, you can find me on any any video game as Coke by as uh Shammy B or Coke Biceps. That's that's where I'm at.
SPEAKER_04That's what I'm at. Um wanna find Domo is Coke Zero Biceps.
SPEAKER_13Wow, you are terrible. She's gonna get you. What were you about to say? Uh Mike? I still don't work right now.
SPEAKER_04She can't give me for nothing.
SPEAKER_11Um, I forgot to plug my website. It was prior con.com. That's right.
SPEAKER_04Anyone else have a website? Oh my god, is anyone else? Oh, I don't want to pick up. You said what? I know other people have things they need to plug before they before we close out the episode officially.
SPEAKER_13Officially, oh okay, no problem. So let me do this one. So if you want to reach me, Umbrose Arcade on practically everything. Instagram, twitch, twitter, Facebook, YouTube. Um, there's something else. Oh, uh uh Discord. Uh, if you want to play a game, I mean I'm not playing Overwatch at the moment, but any other games, Shogun.
SPEAKER_09Sound us like we're retired.
SPEAKER_13It's just like Ash is just sitting there. Um, or Suchi Shogun. Um, and then if you want to reach out to us, uh, you can follow us on uh the Blurred Spectrum on Instagram and Facebook, Blurred Spectrum on Twitter, or hit us up on our mailbag, the blurred spectrum at Umbralstarcade.com. Uh so I guess people have stuff to plug. This will be the time to do it. Anyone have you said people have a website?
SPEAKER_04Jocelyn, we had a whole conversation before we started recording this podcast about something that you said you were working on at a meeting about earlier today.
SPEAKER_00No. She's like it's not out yet. I'm working on a video game. Um we're a small uh indie team, and I'm it's a it's a pixel, it's like a 2D to 3D pixel art game. Um, and I'm doing all the art for it. Uh so that's that's happening. It doesn't thank you. It doesn't have a website or anything yet, it's just it's still in development. Um, they had they actually came to um uh blur con to like like a short a demo of the game. Um, but it's in development, it's coming. It's it's it's working title right now, it's called Estranged. So um yeah.
SPEAKER_13Okay, follow us. We uh follow her, and we will definitely post it so you can see what it looks like whenever we see it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, it's it's nothing out on it yet, but I don't know next year, two years, but we'll follow and waiting. Yeah, um y'all can't stay posted for bears things, bears things are coming soon.
SPEAKER_13Working on a commentary, you know, that please grab one. There is no way that the black boy will not share every bear's thing that is posted. Uh there's stuff posted I didn't even know we were sharing that the that the black McCoy already got to, so don't worry about it at all. Um, and then was there anything else that uh our uh artists have coming up that they wanted to tell people about, whether be maybe you're going to another convention or you have something coming up soon? I forgot to mention that earlier.
SPEAKER_09Oh man, conventions are not next year till for me. Oh no, everything's shut down, man. You're right.
SPEAKER_04Well, do you have any other things that you're working on?
SPEAKER_09Um quirky pickles. Um, I guess for me.
SPEAKER_00Oh, oh, sorry. Oh continue. I was gonna say if you guys, whoever is an artist here, I mean all you know, all of you. Um you know, um, light box expo is coming up and it's virtual. Oh I forgot about that. Yeah, it's virtual and online, and it's a really good convention for artists to meet other artists. So check that out.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_09Oh, also also for artists, um, for like um I'll say like for me personally, the like the only reason things are to pick up is like for me was Black Tober. So if you have some time to commit, do like if you're like this the month, like do it, because it's a really good tag, it'll really help you in the future. Like, do it if you can. Like, I because of that tag, I got to do the work for the NFL toward the end. So I was like, Wow, yeah, do it.
SPEAKER_13Do it, do it.
SPEAKER_11Um, I will be at Geek Wellness um convention. Hey September 18th. Um, it's like uh wait, wait, wait. What'd you just say? September 18th.
SPEAKER_13You said September 18th. Okay, okay I was just wondering if that was another buoy thing.
SPEAKER_11I was just there about to know that's what we're gonna do? Okay, um, I I really do do that stuff all the time. I'll I'll say something weird and try to roll past it, and somebody will call me out.
SPEAKER_09I'm still same way.
SPEAKER_13I would have left it, but I was like, you did the whole buoy thing, and me and me and Gossler were on the same page earlier. Uh so I was like, I gotta I gotta ask the question. But I'm sorry, go ahead. Sorry.
SPEAKER_11Oh, uh so Geek Wellness, September 18th, 19th. It's a um non-profit type organization, community thing. I think it's for like um kids who are I'm trying to read it right now. It's mostly for kids who are like going through stuff. That's the only way I can really expect. I think it's like more so a mental health type thing. Um, so I'll be there selling art. It's in Richmond, Virginia. Um, yeah. If you are around that area, feel free to come through.
SPEAKER_09Is it um is Virginia like is there Virginia and then West Virginia?
SPEAKER_13Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_09Oh, never mind. I was like, I was gonna be in West Virginia. I was like, oh girl, be careful.
SPEAKER_11What part of West Virginia are you gonna be saying? Be careful, girl.
SPEAKER_09Oh, I heard I'm I heard. Um, what's it called again? So my so like the reason why I went to California was to meet my Discord boyfriend. Um so he lives in West Virginia, so I don't like Charlotte's West Virginia? Is that Charlotte? Is that Charlotte's that a like the Seagate?
SPEAKER_07Charlotte would better Charles. Oh, Charleston? Yeah, you mean Charleston? I think so. Is that bad? Do you say Charleston?
SPEAKER_08I don't know, I don't know what it is.
SPEAKER_07Before we start talking about Charleston, let's go ahead and wrap up the episode. Okay, thank you everybody for listening.
SPEAKER_10We'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_07Thank you for having us. Thank you, thank you.